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Post by impact on Mar 10, 2019 13:35:55 GMT 1
Lucky? Every manager needs luck (ask Solskjaer) but to suggest Wagner was solely a motivator is wholly wrong imho. He professionalised the club, put a structure in place, got us promoted on a relative shoestring and then kept us up. That’s not down to luck......it’s bloody good management. His intransigence towards the end was frustrating, but if my DOF had given me Durm, mbenza, diakhaby, sobhi, and said go and improve things I’d be bloody intransigent cos none of em are anywhere near top level football on a consistent basis. Agree 100% with Wagner Agree re DOF ...Except 1.I think Durm is our best full back and is an improvement at right and left back - availability was always a question, but imo has done ok for a free 2. If the DOF was only able to spend £3m - £10m on players in attacking areas what was he supposed to buy? We spent £3-5m Sobhi, £10m Diakhaby, Mbenza loan fee, sold Ince £10m. Talk all day about budgets but to spend a net £3-5m & a loan fee to improve the weakest part of the squad was downright stupid / naive / indicates people at Board level making decisions who are out of their depth Substantial underinvestment + appointment months too late = shambles and gambles Therein lies the issues. We spent £23m to stand still (Kongolo, Lossl, Flo) meaning we only really spent a net £10m or so on improvements. You can't survive on that. |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 10, 2019 14:05:36 GMT 1
As regards a DoF, didn't we survive a whole season in the PL withouth one? But, OK - if we are to have one, then theoretically, Andreas Winkler has worked as a DoF before. Not sure how much work this entails, but I wonder whether he might be in a position to take on a dual-purpose role for next season (co-trainer/DoF) - you'd think not on the face of it, but I suppose you never really know - after all, didn't David Wagner (even as head coach) take on some of the responsibilities of a DoF to bridge the year's gap between Webber and Rebbe? Im sure we dont 'need' one, lots of clubs dont have one, but there's a reason most modern thinking clubs do. If they werent productive they wouldnt be worth a wage. The dof should be the constant at the club (I know it doesnt help when they jump ship). I dont understand how we feel the need to have one, but also feel we can go months without one? I find it a bit bizarre. I dont know what went on with Rebbe, If he was sacked because for his involvement in the summer window its understandable - but given recruitment is only a part of his job, would it not be more sensible to keep him on doing his day to day work and look for a replacement? As bad as everyone says he was he is surely better than nothing if only to lighten the workload? Either we go with the traditional manager who gets free-reign to oversee everything, or we go the DOF model and hire replacements with in a reasonable length of time! |
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deadleg
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by deadleg on Mar 10, 2019 14:16:53 GMT 1
I dont know what went on with Rebbe, If he was sacked because for his involvement in the summer window its understandable - but given recruitment is only a part of his job, would it not be more sensible to keep him on doing his day to day work and look for a replacement? As bad as everyone says he was he is surely better than nothing if only to lighten the workload? This is a complete guess but I wonder if they might've done this if it weren't for the #RebbeOut business. They could well have thought that his position was untenable even in the short tem due to that so no real harm in making a scapegoat of him to promote the idea that we're making a fresh start and to take the pressure off everyone else. If he was flying totally under the radar as far as the fans were concerned I feel like it might've been handled differently. |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 10, 2019 14:24:55 GMT 1
I dont know what went on with Rebbe, If he was sacked because for his involvement in the summer window its understandable - but given recruitment is only a part of his job, would it not be more sensible to keep him on doing his day to day work and look for a replacement? As bad as everyone says he was he is surely better than nothing if only to lighten the workload? This is a complete guess but I wonder if they might've done this if it weren't for the #RebbeOut business. They could well have thought that his position was untenable even in the short tem due to that so no real harm in making a scapegoat of him to promote the idea that we're making a fresh start and to take the pressure off everyone else. If he was flying totally under the radar as far as the fans were concerned I feel like it might've been handled differently. Quite possibly could be right mate How many football men do we have at the club at the moment? Rookie manager, winkler who is probably our most experienced (but not so much in the championship), some coaches (the likes of hudson and whitehead are also rookies really), some analysts and some scouts. I worry we are seriously lacking experience for this summers task ahead Wagner had webber at this point in his tenure as a rookie |
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Post by shawsie on Mar 10, 2019 14:41:33 GMT 1
Lucky? Every manager needs luck (ask Solskjaer) but to suggest Wagner was solely a motivator is wholly wrong imho. He professionalised the club, put a structure in place, got us promoted on a relative shoestring and then kept us up. That’s not down to luck......it’s bloody good management. His intransigence towards the end was frustrating, but if my DOF had given me Durm, mbenza, diakhaby, sobhi, and said go and improve things I’d be bloody intransigent cos none of em are anywhere near top level football on a consistent basis. Agree 100% with Wagner Agree re DOF ...Except 1.I think Durm is our best full back and is an improvement at right and left back - availability was always a question, but imo has done ok for a free 2. If the DOF was only able to spend £3m - £10m on players in attacking areas what was he supposed to buy? We spent £3-5m Sobhi, £10m Diakhaby, Mbenza loan fee, sold Ince £10m. Talk all day about budgets but to spend a net £3-5m & a loan fee to improve the weakest part of the squad was downright stupid / naive / indicates people at Board level making decisions who are out of their depth Substantial underinvestment + appointment months too late = shambles and gambles None of us will ever know the budget amounts exactly........but we didn't need 5 in only 1 of which a guaranteed starter! We needed a striker to stretch teams and a winger with pace both to go straight in. Also, you have to question allocating 20m to rebuild canalside NOW - we needed at least another year for me, but tbf it's a long term investment and we will wait and see. |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 10, 2019 14:46:57 GMT 1
Agree 100% with Wagner Agree re DOF ...Except 1.I think Durm is our best full back and is an improvement at right and left back - availability was always a question, but imo has done ok for a free 2. If the DOF was only able to spend £3m - £10m on players in attacking areas what was he supposed to buy? We spent £3-5m Sobhi, £10m Diakhaby, Mbenza loan fee, sold Ince £10m. Talk all day about budgets but to spend a net £3-5m & a loan fee to improve the weakest part of the squad was downright stupid / naive / indicates people at Board level making decisions who are out of their depth Substantial underinvestment + appointment months too late = shambles and gambles None of us will ever know the budget amounts exactly........but we didn't need 5 in only 1 of which a guaranteed starter! We needed a striker to stretch teams and a winger with pace both to go straight in. Also, you have to question allocating 20m to rebuild canalside NOW - we needed at least another year for me, but tbf it's a long term investment and we will wait and see. Have to disagree there. That was the only tangible legacy we were likely to get out of the PL and imo an excellent decision. Another season would have upped our wage bill and made it much more difficult to afford. If the only thing to come out of the PL is a few bad records and a top class training facility im happy with that. Be in a much better position for it |
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Mar 10, 2019 15:05:48 GMT 1
As regards a DoF, didn't we survive a whole season in the PL withouth one? But, OK - if we are to have one, then theoretically, Andreas Winkler has worked as a DoF before. Not sure how much work this entails, but I wonder whether he might be in a position to take on a dual-purpose role for next season (co-trainer/DoF) - you'd think not on the face of it, but I suppose you never really know - after all, didn't David Wagner (even as head coach) take on some of the responsibilities of a DoF to bridge the year's gap between Webber and Rebbe? Im sure we dont 'need' one, lots of clubs dont have one, but there's a reason most modern thinking clubs do. If they werent productive they wouldnt be worth a wage. The dof should be the constant at the club (I know it doesnt help when they jump ship). I dont understand how we feel the need to have one, but also feel we can go months without one? I find it a bit bizarre. I dont know what went on with Rebbe, If he was sacked because for his involvement in the summer window its understandable - but given recruitment is only a part of his job, would it not be more sensible to keep him on doing his day to day work and look for a replacement? As bad as everyone says he was he is surely better than nothing if only to lighten the workload? Either we go with the traditional manager who gets free-reign to oversee everything, or we go the DOF model and hire replacements with in a reasonable length of time! It's difficult to know what method is best. The period between Webber and Rebbe shows that we achieved PL survival without a DoF, but at what price? For although DW indicated he was happy with taking on added responsibilities (actually, after David Moss left - who I don't think was really a DoF as such in the classical sense*), I think it ultimately didn't help him fend off exhaustion. I remember seeing him in Austria at the training camp there. And he just looked very tired, even before the season started. * Tbh, I'm not totally clear about what a DoF is actually supposed to do - the following definition, taken from training ground guru, would suggest it's a massive role within a club. The key priorities for the Sporting Director are: Support the first team and head coach Maintain and manage a positive working relationship with the owner Employ the best people within budget as department heads Oversee the implementation of the club’s DNA and identity a suitable playing philosophy across all teams, from first team to Academy. Implement and maintain a scouting network Manage the movement of players in and out of the club Oversee the academy and development teams (extending to community foundations for talent identification) Oversee the performance departments including medical and sport science Oversee the training ground The Sporting Director is the custodian of the club’s sporting performance and must have: Football industry knowledge Business and financial acumen Ability to lead and develop a high performance culture Ability to develop and deliver a strategy both strategically and operationally Understanding of - and the ability to deliver - good governance Ability to manage change and innovation Ability to manage research (monitor and evaluate) on relevant performance measures Is this something close to what Webber was doing, or what Rebbe was supposed to do? Big, time-consuming job - The incumbent probably won't even get too much time to mow the lawn on a Sunday. One thing's for sure, looking at it more closely, I think I can now rule out Andreas Winkler fulfilling a dual-purpose role (even in modified form)! [sup ]✔[/sup]  |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 10, 2019 15:09:46 GMT 1
A bit left field, but that Warburton seems like someone who would be a great DoF.
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k1man999
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Post by k1man999 on Mar 10, 2019 15:20:23 GMT 1
A bit left field, but that Warburton seems like someone who would be a great DoF. That's not a bad call good footballing knowledge, business acumen worked at Brentford who have a similar methodology etc it's just does he have the contacts. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 10, 2019 15:21:36 GMT 1
A bit left field, but that Warburton seems like someone who would be a great DoF. That's not a bad call good footballing knowledge, business acumen worked at Brentford who have a similar methodology etc it's just does he have the contacts. That's my train of thought. |
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Post by shawsie on Mar 10, 2019 15:23:36 GMT 1
None of us will ever know the budget amounts exactly........but we didn't need 5 in only 1 of which a guaranteed starter! We needed a striker to stretch teams and a winger with pace both to go straight in. Also, you have to question allocating 20m to rebuild canalside NOW - we needed at least another year for me, but tbf it's a long term investment and we will wait and see. Have to disagree there. That was the only tangible legacy we were likely to get out of the PL and imo an excellent decision. Another season would have upped our wage bill and made it much more difficult to afford. If the only thing to come out of the PL is a few bad records and a top class training facility im happy with that. Be in a much better position for it But we won't have any players to occupy it the way we are going! |
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Post by specialun on Mar 10, 2019 17:01:15 GMT 1
Agree 100% with Wagner Agree re DOF ...Except 1.I think Durm is our best full back and is an improvement at right and left back - availability was always a question, but imo has done ok for a free 2. If the DOF was only able to spend £3m - £10m on players in attacking areas what was he supposed to buy? We spent £3-5m Sobhi, £10m Diakhaby, Mbenza loan fee, sold Ince £10m. Talk all day about budgets but to spend a net £3-5m & a loan fee to improve the weakest part of the squad was downright stupid / naive / indicates people at Board level making decisions who are out of their depth Substantial underinvestment + appointment months too late = shambles and gambles Therein lies the issues. We spent £23m to stand still (Kongolo, Lossl, Flo) meaning we only really spent a net £10m or so on improvements. You can't survive on that. This is exactly the point This model that worked to get us up and keep us up caught up with us Both years we relied on loan signings who we then secured and went on to varying success And a manager who then got more from a team than the sum of its parts We had to realise that But to spend £10m on improving the weakest part of the team - If I’m being kind to the Board, at best it was bloody stupid. If I’m being honest it was a complete shambles and strikes of people in roles out of their depth |
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Post by ritchie on Mar 10, 2019 18:02:10 GMT 1
Have to disagree there. That was the only tangible legacy we were likely to get out of the PL and imo an excellent decision. Another season would have upped our wage bill and made it much more difficult to afford. If the only thing to come out of the PL is a few bad records and a top class training facility im happy with that. Be in a much better position for it But we won't have any players to occupy it the way we are going! Eh? Thats pretty embarrassing sensationalism Forget parachute payments, forget the other players we could sell, we could probably generate 50 million quid by selling billing, mooy and kongolo. consider how much the squad that got us up cost and tell me we "wont have players to fill it" awful suggestion that. sorry but when have we ever gone into a season under hoyle under the circumstances you are suggesting? get a serious grip pal |
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hthtafs
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Post by hthtafs on Mar 11, 2019 14:03:54 GMT 1
Spot on ... Wagner was a great motivator and was very lucky. Webber orchestrated our success, hoyles best appointment. Lucky? Every manager needs luck (ask Solskjaer) but to suggest Wagner was solely a motivator is wholly wrong imho. He professionalised the club, put a structure in place, got us promoted on a relative shoestring and then kept us up. That’s not down to luck......it’s bloody good management. His intransigence towards the end was frustrating, but if my DOF had given me Durm, mbenza, diakhaby, sobhi, and said go and improve things I’d be bloody intransigent cos none of em are anywhere near top level football on a consistent basis. Whilst I agree with some of your comments re Wagner, the point you slightly miss is Webber, was responsible for our key signings and critically the appointment of Wagner. The recruitmentment of Durm, mbenza, diakhaby, sobhi, was after he’d left. In terms of Wagner’s professionalising the club, I would question where the greater credit would lie, at his or Webber’s doorstep. Ultimately I believe the biggest loss the club has suffered is Webber going to Norwich. |
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Post by royrace on Mar 11, 2019 14:41:42 GMT 1
Spot on ... Wagner was a great motivator and was very lucky. Webber orchestrated our success, hoyles best appointment. Jan was earmarked as Wagners successor soon after he joined us. Shall we give thanks to Webber for him too? Personally I expect him to come good.Is that just blind faith though or are there some reasons you expect him to come good? I need cheering up! I know Jan is his own man and rightly so but there doesn't seem to be any similarities between him and Wagner to date other than they're both German and came from BVB. Wagner was expert at getting his new ideas across to the squad and having them implement his plan and playing with a recognisable identity (even though we were often losing games), he was also great at building squad harmony. Jan seems the opposite on both those counts I'm afraid. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Mar 11, 2019 14:53:23 GMT 1
A bit left field, but that Warburton seems like someone who would be a great DoF. I don’t Think Warburton agreed with the ‘Moneyball’ stuff which is why he and Brentford parted company. |
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by ben1987 on Mar 11, 2019 15:20:12 GMT 1
A bit left field, but that Warburton seems like someone who would be a great DoF. Great call |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 16:32:53 GMT 1
Jan was earmarked as Wagners successor soon after he joined us. Shall we give thanks to Webber for him too? Personally I expect him to come good.Is that just blind faith though or are there some reasons you expect him to come good? I need cheering up! I know Jan is his own man and rightly so but there doesn't seem to be any similarities between him and Wagner to date other than they're both German and came from BVB. Wagner was expert at getting his new ideas across to the squad and having them implement his plan and playing with a recognisable identity (even though we were often losing games), he was also great at building squad harmony. Jan seems the opposite on both those counts I'm afraid. Maybe Jan will take them on a bonding exercise in the close season.  To be fair Wagner didn't come in to face a team nestling firmly at the bottom of the Premier League completely flattened and going down regardless. Don't forget also Wagners philosophy/identity went out of the window depending on the opposition. Siewert has shown in patches his attacking intentions, if some of our squad don't wish to take his ideas on board i'm sure he will know some who will. When did we last have a manager prepared to give youth a chance? A tiny bit of blind faith as well.  |
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Post by specialun on Mar 23, 2019 10:34:57 GMT 1
Another 2 weeks gone
Rebbe left 2 months ago
We’re already behind the curve for next season
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Post by nicovaesen on Mar 23, 2019 10:37:09 GMT 1
Do we need to look at clubs like Peterboro ,Coventry and even Barnsley ,look at the talent there bringing through. Jordi hula hoop |
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Post by nicovaesen on Mar 23, 2019 10:46:24 GMT 1
Agree 100% with Wagner Agree re DOF ...Except 1.I think Durm is our best full back and is an improvement at right and left back - availability was always a question, but imo has done ok for a free 2. If the DOF was only able to spend £3m - £10m on players in attacking areas what was he supposed to buy? We spent £3-5m Sobhi, £10m Diakhaby, Mbenza loan fee, sold Ince £10m. Talk all day about budgets but to spend a net £3-5m & a loan fee to improve the weakest part of the squad was downright stupid / naive / indicates people at Board level making decisions who are out of their depth Substantial underinvestment + appointment months too late = shambles and gambles None of us will ever know the budget amounts exactly........but we didn't need 5 in only 1 of which a guaranteed starter! We needed a striker to stretch teams and a winger with pace both to go straight in. Also, you have to question allocating 20m to rebuild canalside NOW - we needed at least another year for me, but tbf it's a long term investment and we will wait and see. We have unearthed the new Stewie in grant!!! To stretch defencesHe will be a new town legend for the snowflake melenials!!!! Based purely on that beautiful goal at the bubble blowers! |
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Post by Up the Duff. on Mar 23, 2019 11:00:04 GMT 1
Amazing how Webber was hammered and told where to go by so many on here but now he is for some the main reason for our promotion. Wagner is now the guilty man. How things change..😂
I personally think both Webber and Wagner played their part and we should be grateful to both. Not sure why we always need a target.
Up the Terriers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 11:33:07 GMT 1
Amazing how Webber was hammered and told where to go by so many on here but now he is for some the main reason for our promotion. Wagner is now the guilty man. How things change..😂 I personally think both Webber and Wagner played their part and we should be grateful to both. Not sure why we always need a target. Up the Terriers. correct they did and proper supporters know that but that's how it is .utt |
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Post by fishfingersandwich on Mar 23, 2019 12:01:37 GMT 1
There must be some on here that can do the job?
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 23, 2019 13:01:37 GMT 1
There must be some on here that can do the job? There are lots on here that think they can do the job and would probably spontaneously combust the second they need to look beyond their nose. |
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Post by specialun on Mar 23, 2019 20:05:36 GMT 1
Not a question of who can do the job
Imo employing the DOF end of May, 7 months after that last left was beyond stupid and set is up for failure
The board must fulfill their duties as directors & learn from their mistakes
A DOF should be in place now
Unless they want to set up Siewert to fail
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 20:08:15 GMT 1
Not a question of who can do the job Imo employing the DOF end of May, 7 months after that last left was beyond stupid and set is up for failure The board must fulfill their duties as directors & learn from their mistakes A DOF should be in place now Unless they want to set up Siewert to fail The board didn't want us to stay up this season, more or less every decision this season points to that as well. It also seems that a lot of people want Siewert to fail. All because he isn't Wagner, it's pathetic. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 20:49:49 GMT 1
Not a question of who can do the job Imo employing the DOF end of May, 7 months after that last left was beyond stupid and set is up for failure The board must fulfill their duties as directors & learn from their mistakes A DOF should be in place now Unless they want to set up Siewert to fail The board didn't want us to stay up this season, more or less every decision this season points to that as well. It also seems that a lot of people want Siewert to fail. All because he isn't Wagner, it's pathetic. your last line as a point your point that the board didn't want to stay up is wrong but you are entitled to your view |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 21:46:27 GMT 1
Rebbes Dad died within days of him joining us so I’ve heard. Had to go back home for a while, so you can understand why he didn’t have the best of starts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 9:56:03 GMT 1
The board didn't want us to stay up this season, more or less every decision this season points to that as well. It also seems that a lot of people want Siewert to fail. All because he isn't Wagner, it's pathetic. your last line as a point your point that the board didn't want to stay up is wrong but you are entitled to your view Oh here comes the resident expert. Your post doesn't even make sense, as usual, but because you once scouted for the club (allegedly), you're opinion is automatically the right one. Bore off. |
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To be fair Wagner didn't come in to face a team nestling firmly at the bottom of the Premier League completely flattened and going down regardless. Don't forget also Wagners philosophy/identity went out of the window depending on the opposition.
