Burning your bridges, before you cross them

[Deleted]

[Headless Chicken]

Jun 11, 2019 16:45:45 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

Jun 11, 2019 13:36:44 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

It’s not bloody Coronation Street with a soap opera storyline.
If they stay then they stay, it doesn’t really matter.
Anyone who holds a grudge against a player wanting to move needs to grow up. 

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, who actually cares? Footballers are mercenaries anyway, they show very little loyalty when money is mentioned. As someone rightly pointed out have these players don't appear to have disrupted the dressing room, as one of them won an accolade voted by their team mates. They were probably pissed off with the club's mismanagement and bafflingly crap tactics from both Wagner and Seiwert.

Also, about the same level of loyalty that many fans show players when the club's potentially moved on quicker than them. Loads of examples of not wanting to give a player a chance to prove themself, rather demands to bin em off and spend the EPL millions.

PS - unintentionally you imply you have more idea when it comes to tactics than Wagner and Siewert, which is just daft.

[Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier]

The only thing that matters is the club gets as much money as possible for those wanting out so they can be replaced with those wanting to play for the club.

Hasnt it always been the case in the transfer market that a player is only worth as much as what another club is willing to pay for them , and that cannot be alot at premier league level with many especially if going on last seasons dreadful form.

Jan has started his rebuilding programme that hopefully will take the club onwards and upwards ,and that surely will not include past players who do not want to play for the club

Sadly there is a case here that certain club players think they are better than they really are ,and even worse think they are bigger than our wonderful club.

What will be interesting to see is what happens to players like Billing if not sold

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2019 18:03:57 GMT 1 Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier said:

The only thing that matters is the club gets as much money as possible for those wanting out so they can be replaced with those wanting to play for the club.

Hasnt it always been the case in the transfer market that a player is only worth as much as what another club is willing to pay for them , and that cannot be alot at premier league level with many especially if going on last seasons dreadful form.

Jan has started his rebuilding programme that hopefully will take the club onwards and upwards ,and that surely will not include past players who do not want to play for the club

Sadly there is a case here that certain club players think they are better than they really are ,and even worse think they are bigger than our wonderful club.

What will be interesting to see is what happens to players like Billing if not sold

no one is bigger than the club and on the point of what happens if they are stillhere is they will have two choices knuckle down are you wont get a move in the next window

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Jun 18, 2019 17:32:59 GMT 1 Headless Chicken said:

Jun 11, 2019 16:45:45 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, who actually cares? Footballers are mercenaries anyway, they show very little loyalty when money is mentioned. As someone rightly pointed out have these players don't appear to have disrupted the dressing room, as one of them won an accolade voted by their team mates. They were probably pissed off with the club's mismanagement and bafflingly crap tactics from both Wagner and Seiwert.

Also, about the same level of loyalty that many fans show players when the club's potentially moved on quicker than them. Loads of examples of not wanting to give a player a chance to prove themself, rather demands to bin em off and spend the EPL millions.

PS - unintentionally you imply you have more idea when it comes to tactics than Wagner and Siewert, which is just daft.

Tactical genius - Ron Manager.

[greyarea]

Fair play to Flo he seems to be getting stuck into training, getting on well with the whole of the group and seems to be enjoying the pre-season.

I had him down as a definite to leave after not featuring much under Siewert and his comments in the press similar to Zanka's. in wanting to play in a top tier league. Be it the UK, France, Italy, Germany etc. 

We haven't heard any transfer noise about him so maybe he's settled down and is in for the Championship season. He's not as bad as some like to make out ( a bit powder puff at times) and is generally a solid pro.

I think I am moving him from my 'definitely leaving' list to 'part of the squad' list.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2019 1:49:02 GMT 1 greyarea said:

Fair play to the lad he seems to be getting stuck into training, getting on well with the whole of the group and seems to be enjoying the pre-season.

I had him down as a definite to leave after not featuring much under Siewert and his comments in the press similar to Zanka's. in wanting to play in a top tier league. Be it the UK, France, Italy, Germany etc. 

We haven't heard any transfer noise about him so maybe he's settled down and is in for the Championship season. He's not as bad as some like to make out ( a bit powder puff at times) and is generally a solid pro.

I think I am moving him from my 'definitely leaving' list to 'part of the squad' list.

IMO, he was hugely overrated by Wagner due to his good engine (similar to VLP). A truly talentless attacker with no sense of how to defend against a decent wide man. I said after the first home game of last season when he gifted Willian cross after cross for Chelsea, he's got absolutely no business in the top flight of any European league. His level is third or fourth tier in England or Germany - maybe second in the Swiss or Scottish leagues. I'm sure he's knuckled down with a better attitude in Austria due to lack of interest from other clubs over the off-season.

[specialun]

Jul 10, 2019 7:03:46 GMT 1 @bluewhiteblackgold said:

Jul 10, 2019 1:49:02 GMT 1 greyarea said:

Fair play to the lad he seems to be getting stuck into training, getting on well with the whole of the group and seems to be enjoying the pre-season.

I had him down as a definite to leave after not featuring much under Siewert and his comments in the press similar to Zanka's. in wanting to play in a top tier league. Be it the UK, France, Italy, Germany etc. 

We haven't heard any transfer noise about him so maybe he's settled down and is in for the Championship season. He's not as bad as some like to make out ( a bit powder puff at times) and is generally a solid pro.

I think I am moving him from my 'definitely leaving' list to 'part of the squad' list.

IMO, he was hugely overrated by Wagner due to his good engine (similar to VLP). A truly talentless attacker with no sense of how to defend against a decent wide man. I said after the first game of last season when he gifted Willian cross after cross for Chelsea, he's got absolutely no business in the top flight of any European league. His level is third or fourth tier in England or Germany - maybe second in the Swiss or Scottish leagues. 

He was excellent attacking wise for his first 8 games

He lost that / became sussed out etc and was found wanting defensively (positioning at times terrible)

I also thought he was a definite to go - I always remember the story about him refusing to train at his previous club

But as the original post if he’s got his head down, working hard etc good on him. There’s certainly no agent putting daft stories in the press

Whilst I may be feeling quite negative / apprehensive / concerned about our chances next season... I do think he can be a decent championship full back.

Your assessment of his standard is overly harsh imo

(Re - VLP was key in promotion season. Wagner didn’t ‘overrate’ him - he knew his weaknesses otherwise we wouldn't have the recruitment team try (and fail) to bring 3 better wide men in. But he got the best out of him to work in the promotion season - in his system, pattern of play (transition phase etc), work his socks off in the shape, excellent defensively etc. Crucial component making the team better than the sum of its parts. Diakhaby and Mbenza take note).

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Not good enough imo, very poor final ball.

[Galpharmer]

Pretty poor at attacking. Pretty poor at defending. Softer than Pontus Jansson. His agent is probably struggling to shift him on the same whack that he's managed to get off us. Hence his renewed commitment to Town.

[Gag N Bone Man]

So at this stage, none of Flo, Zanka or Billing have gone. Flo is in Austria.

I predict we'll end up with at least one of them here when the window closes.

[Farsley Terrier (UK product)]

Jul 10, 2019 8:37:57 GMT 1 Gag N Bone Man said:

So at this stage, none of Flo, Zanka or Billing have gone. Flo is in Austria.

I predict we'll end up with at least one of them here when the window closes.

Can we not loan them out if that's the case?

[Gag N Bone Man]

Jul 10, 2019 8:40:08 GMT 1 Farsley Terrier (UK product) said:

Jul 10, 2019 8:37:57 GMT 1 Gag N Bone Man said:

So at this stage, none of Flo, Zanka or Billing have gone. Flo is in Austria.

I predict we'll end up with at least one of them here when the window closes.

Can we not loan them out if that's the case?

Only if someone wants them.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2019 8:37:57 GMT 1 Gag N Bone Man said:

So at this stage, none of Flo, Zanka or Billing have gone. Flo is in Austria.

I predict we'll end up with at least one of them here when the window closes.

you make a good point and a lot can happen before transfer deadline day.im sure phill will be talking to the players out there and attitudes can change and so can circumstances.it woudnt surprise me one bit if we hold on to a couple who every one seems to think will go.interesting times but I am delighted that the spirit within the squad is good. I understand Bell as settled in well.

[Gag N Bone Man]

I suppose we need a little bit of pragmatism.... - taken from the BBC gossip page:

Fulham plan to reintegrate French striker Aboubakar Kamara back into their squad after lifting the ban imposed on him following the 24-year-old's arrest at the training ground in January. (Telegraph)

Relatively speaking, none of our players are beyond redemption!

[Deleted]

Flo seems to be well in the frame in Austria. Regarding the question I have always struggled with players I knew/thought were not totally committed. We have had our share who only looked bothered near contract renewal, Simon Baldry, Martin Smith, Paul Dalton, etc (I am sure others will disagree about these players but they stand out in my memory). Nothing they said just never really seemed to be bothered enough. However, if any of the current three named come back and really put shifts in I would be fine with it.

From a playing perspective, though I know this was not the question, Zanka I find generally slack as a centre back and Billing you never quite know what you will get from one game to another, which is a concern. Flo looked poor in the Prem but may look a lot better in the Championship.

[bluestripe]

Jul 12, 2019 9:55:21 GMT 1 @bluesandtwos said:

Flo seems to be well in the frame in Austria. Regarding the question I have always struggled with players I knew/thought were not totally committed. We have had our share who only looked bothered near contract renewal, Simon Baldry, Martin Smith, Paul Dalton, etc (I am sure others will disagree about these players but they stand out in my memory). Nothing they said just never really seemed to be bothered enough. However, if any of the current three named come back and really put shifts in I would be fine with it.

From a playing perspective, though I know this was not the question, Zanka I find generally slack as a centre back and Billing you never quite know what you will get from one game to another, which is a concern. Flo looked poor in the Prem but may look a lot better in the Championship.

Agreed. As usual, most people are judging Flo based on EPL, but not allowing for the fact that we are now in Championship. However, on the flip side, Championship is probably a more physical league. His reputation for being as soft as s##t does not bode well, but overall he is most likely to be our number one right back if he stays and Smith goes.

Again Zanka is being judged on EPL. He should be top class in Championship in theory if his head is in the right place.

[shawsie]

Jul 12, 2019 9:55:21 GMT 1 @bluesandtwos said:

Flo seems to be well in the frame in Austria. Regarding the question I have always struggled with players I knew/thought were not totally committed. We have had our share who only looked bothered near contract renewal, Simon Baldry, Martin Smith, Paul Dalton, etc (I am sure others will disagree about these players but they stand out in my memory). Nothing they said just never really seemed to be bothered enough. However, if any of the current three named come back and really put shifts in I would be fine with it.

From a playing perspective, though I know this was not the question, Zanka I find generally slack as a centre back and Billing you never quite know what you will get from one game to another, which is a concern. Flo looked poor in the Prem but may look a lot better in the Championship.

Flo had a dreadful season last............but did enough in his first to make us all aware he can cut it at championship standard, providing he cuts out the play acting and soft as shitness!
The question for me is does he want to ........and if not we should sell for the biggest price and look elsewhere. If he does, then great.......the talent is there.

[Doc Halladay 32]

Jul 12, 2019 10:49:39 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Jul 12, 2019 9:55:21 GMT 1 @bluesandtwos said:

Flo seems to be well in the frame in Austria. Regarding the question I have always struggled with players I knew/thought were not totally committed. We have had our share who only looked bothered near contract renewal, Simon Baldry, Martin Smith, Paul Dalton, etc (I am sure others will disagree about these players but they stand out in my memory). Nothing they said just never really seemed to be bothered enough. However, if any of the current three named come back and really put shifts in I would be fine with it.

From a playing perspective, though I know this was not the question, Zanka I find generally slack as a centre back and Billing you never quite know what you will get from one game to another, which is a concern. Flo looked poor in the Prem but may look a lot better in the Championship.

Flo had a dreadful season last............but did enough in his first to make us all aware he can cut it at championship standard, providing he cuts out the play acting and soft as shitness!
The question for me is does he want to ........and if not we should sell for the biggest price and look elsewhere. If he does, then great.......the talent is there.

His pace should also help him in the Championship, in fact, that is the best thing IMO we have added to the squad over our past Championship squads and hope it translates to the style of football we seem to be adopting.