Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 18:08:04 GMT 1
Cristiano Ronaldo. Not only the best player of the main contenders but has had the fullest career to prove it. Won things in 4 major leagues and internationally. Pele did his legendary stuff in world cups, His club career is hard to judge because of where it was and the standard not being great. Messi has only done it in spain. Internationally hes been a bit of a flop. C Ronaldo Messi Maradona Pele I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Comparative to the names mentioned he has. He has had a team around him capable of anything. Except the last world cup he has never really turned up. He has a good scoring record, not really on the big stage, more in qualifying against lesser teams. Not even the scoring side, he as a playmaker hasnt really done great amounts on world level. If he had won a World Cup and tested himself elsewhere winning trophies, then undoubtedly,in my opinion of course, he would rank right up there alongside, if not at the top |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 18:15:45 GMT 1
Messi
Everyone else
No debate.
|
|
|
|
Post by ACW on Jun 12, 2019 19:14:30 GMT 1
I base my view of the quality of a footballer on what I see them do with a football.
For that reason alone I think Messi is the best all-round footballer to play the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Jun 12, 2019 19:31:32 GMT 1
Cristiano Ronaldo. Not only the best player of the main contenders but has had the fullest career to prove it. Won things in 4 major leagues and internationally. Pele did his legendary stuff in world cups, His club career is hard to judge because of where it was and the standard not being great. Messi has only done it in spain. Internationally hes been a bit of a flop. C Ronaldo Messi Maradona Pele I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. |
|
|
|
Post by ACW on Jun 12, 2019 19:37:36 GMT 1
I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. More to Ronaldo's game than Messi's? Better passer, goal-creator, dribbler? Better free kick taker? Really? |
|
|
|
Post by drumriggend on Jun 12, 2019 20:02:35 GMT 1
Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. More to Ronaldo's game than Messi's? Better passer, goal-creator, dribbler? Better free kick taker? Really? Deffo.. Ronny is an all round genius.. He scores all sorts of goals.. And works his arse off for the team.. At club level..and for portugal. Somebody did a you tube montage last season when madrid came from behind against juve..and barca blew it against roma.. When the opposition scored against their team ronaldo was going round his players...encouraging..clapping his hands ..geeing everybody up.."we can do this..cmon..keep going" Messi stood in the centre circle..hands on hips..staring at the ground..not a word uttered to his team-mates. Same again this season at anfield.. Messi went missing when his team needed him... Dont get me wrong hes a brilliant natural footballer... But... Ronny has all that.. Plus... Attitude.. Team spirit.. Work ethic.. Desire .. Patriotism.. Will to win.. No contest |
|
|
|
Post by ponteterrier on Jun 12, 2019 20:18:24 GMT 1
I notice Oscar Gobern is missing from the list
|
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Jun 12, 2019 21:59:48 GMT 1
I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. He's scored over a goal every other game at international level, it's not bad. The World Cup doesn't define a great player, there's loads of world cups where top players aren't even there and teams there that really shouldn't be. Hazard himself has admitted he's nowhere near Messi. In terms of dribbling, passing, creating chances and goals he's way behind so I'm not sure how on earth it can even be an argument that Hazard is up there with Messi. Out of current players only 2 have scored more against England's top 6 teams than Messi and they have both plated in England for years. |
|
|
|
Post by Town Duppy on Jun 12, 2019 22:30:04 GMT 1
If this was a right(corner)poll Diakhaby & Mbenza would kick the f**k out of it!
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Jun 12, 2019 23:25:44 GMT 1
Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. More to Ronaldo's game than Messi's? Better passer, goal-creator, dribbler? Better free kick taker? Really? Yeah i would say so. Not better at everything ( Messi is a wonderful player ), but better at more things of the two. And like i say, hes had the much better career in terms of proving himself. Both in club football and internationally. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Jun 12, 2019 23:34:01 GMT 1
Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. He's scored over a goal every other game at international level, it's not bad. The World Cup doesn't define a great player, there's loads of world cups where top players aren't even there and teams there that really shouldn't be. Hazard himself has admitted he's nowhere near Messi. In terms of dribbling, passing, creating chances and goals he's way behind so I'm not sure how on earth it can even be an argument that Hazard is up there with Messi. Out of current players only 2 have scored more against England's top 6 teams than Messi and they have both plated in England for years. Hazard is quite a humble guy. If asked he doesn;t come across as the sort who would come out and say hes this and that compared to Messi. His stats may be behind Messi, but he isn;t playing for such a dominant club as Barcelona in a league where most of the games are a bit of a free for all for his team. Chelsea are a top side but in no way dominant like barca are and the prem is a much tougher division in terms of competitiveness. I don;t think hes always been on a par with Messi ( whos been right at the top for many years now ), but right now, as they are currently, then I think theyre pretty comparable. 2 absolutely fantastic players. Guess next season will give a clearer picture of that. And Pele's reputation is almost totally defined by world cups. |
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Jun 13, 2019 1:42:22 GMT 1
He's scored over a goal every other game at international level, it's not bad. The World Cup doesn't define a great player, there's loads of world cups where top players aren't even there and teams there that really shouldn't be. Hazard himself has admitted he's nowhere near Messi. In terms of dribbling, passing, creating chances and goals he's way behind so I'm not sure how on earth it can even be an argument that Hazard is up there with Messi. Out of current players only 2 have scored more against England's top 6 teams than Messi and they have both plated in England for years. Hazard is quite a humble guy. If asked he doesn;t come across as the sort who would come out and say hes this and that compared to Messi. His stats may be behind Messi, but he isn;t playing for such a dominant club as Barcelona in a league where most of the games are a bit of a free for all for his team. Chelsea are a top side but in no way dominant like barca are and the prem is a much tougher division in terms of competitiveness. I don;t think hes always been on a par with Messi ( whos been right at the top for many years now ), but right now, as they are currently, then I think theyre pretty comparable. 2 absolutely fantastic players. Guess next season will give a clearer picture of that. And Pele's reputation is almost totally defined by world cups. Don't our ever watch Spanish football? I'm sure you've said before that you don't so I'm not sure how you can say every game is a free for all for his team. The top 6 in that league didn't break records like the top 6 in the Premier League did this season. Statistically Messi just had one of the best seasons of his career in terms of all round player Hazard whilst a very good player is nowhere near that bracket. If he scores 50 goals next season in a similar team and position then we can see if he's getting there. People said it was all about Xavi then Iniesta but his record of goals, chances created and dribbles all round has got better since they left. I think Pele, again whilst obviously a great player, is judged too easily on a few games every 4 years against opposition that when you look at it now is shocking. People argue Messi's record because it's in Spain (despite his record against top English sides which again he is miles ahead of Hazard despite playing vastly superior games against them) but Pele's is far worse in terms of opposition faced. |
|
|
|
Post by bigdavek on Jun 13, 2019 4:14:22 GMT 1
I think the poll is slightly skewed because we only saw players like Pele, Cruyff etc. every blue moon on television. You can now see Messi, Ronaldo, Pogba and the likes every week on TV so get a much larger view of what they do.
My vote goes to Pele, only because Gordon Banks isn't on the list btw.
|
|
k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,556
|
Post by k1man999 on Jun 13, 2019 7:43:31 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past
They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires.
Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch.
From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele.
As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier.
One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats.
|
|
|
|
Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jun 13, 2019 7:58:44 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires. Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch. From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele. As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier. One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats. Did someone say the game is more physical now? |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jun 13, 2019 11:57:05 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires. Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch. From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele. As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier. One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats. Gazza ? There's no Zidane, Platini or Zico on it |
|
k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,556
|
Post by k1man999 on Jun 13, 2019 12:18:42 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires. Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch. From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele. As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier. One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats. Gazza ? There's no Zidane, Platini or Zico on it Nor is there Maldini, Beckenbauer, Edwards, Matthews etc we could go on. I think you can only define a player by the time they played and suggest best player of that era. |
|
|
|
Post by terrier70 on Jun 13, 2019 12:30:31 GMT 1
Not voting on this are this no Messi or Gordon Tucker!
|
|
|
|
Post by Oblong of Dreams on Jun 13, 2019 16:43:20 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires. Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch. From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele. As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier. One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats. Gazza ? There's no Zidane, Platini or Zico on it Zico was shite. Only thing that came out of that signing was Brucey getting a discount at Thai Charleda |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Jun 13, 2019 17:37:09 GMT 1
Hazard is quite a humble guy. If asked he doesn;t come across as the sort who would come out and say hes this and that compared to Messi. His stats may be behind Messi, but he isn;t playing for such a dominant club as Barcelona in a league where most of the games are a bit of a free for all for his team. Chelsea are a top side but in no way dominant like barca are and the prem is a much tougher division in terms of competitiveness. I don;t think hes always been on a par with Messi ( whos been right at the top for many years now ), but right now, as they are currently, then I think theyre pretty comparable. 2 absolutely fantastic players. Guess next season will give a clearer picture of that. And Pele's reputation is almost totally defined by world cups. Don't our ever watch Spanish football? I'm sure you've said before that you don't so I'm not sure how you can say every game is a free for all for his team. The top 6 in that league didn't break records like the top 6 in the Premier League did this season. Statistically Messi just had one of the best seasons of his career in terms of all round player Hazard whilst a very good player is nowhere near that bracket. If he scores 50 goals next season in a similar team and position then we can see if he's getting there. People said it was all about Xavi then Iniesta but his record of goals, chances created and dribbles all round has got better since they left. I think Pele, again whilst obviously a great player, is judged too easily on a few games every 4 years against opposition that when you look at it now is shocking. People argue Messi's record because it's in Spain (despite his record against top English sides which again he is miles ahead of Hazard despite playing vastly superior games against them) but Pele's is far worse in terms of opposition faced. I used to watch spanish football quite a lot. Been over there to watch it live. The refereeing killed it for me as it became a no contact cheat fest. Games like 'El Classico' are unbearable to watch IMO. Two sides just trying to get each other sent off. If Hazard had been playing for man city these last couple of years, then that would be the equivalent of how Messi has it in Spain for the bulk of his career. Think in Messi and Hazard, youve got the best players in each of La Liga and the prem. Different leagues with different challenges so hard to prove one way of another whos better. Id put them on a par myself but like I said next season should be interesting, though Real seem to be in a bit of a transition just now. But IMO if Messi really wanted to be fairly compared to Cristiano Ronaldo as the greatest ever, then he should have left his comfort zone in Barca and done it in the prem aswell where its more physical, more intense and competitive.,, no winter breaks, shit weather etc Bit different for Messi cos he started out at the very top of the tree as a kid, whereas CR had to work his way up there. |
|
|
|
Post by htafctaunton on Jun 13, 2019 23:13:20 GMT 1
The debate between players of the past and one's now is difficult the games faster and the player are better athletes but to say more physicali don't agree as you used to see some reet tackles/assaults on players in the past They also played with heavier balls and a lot of times on clog mires. Today the ball is as lite as anything and they play on carpets. they get more protection even the boots are taylored so they can feel every touch. From watching countless clips of footballers from the past I'd go George best if he had of been Brazilian I think he'd be rated above Pele. As for modern era I just sway to CR7 he's done it everywhere with lesser players. Messi has been surrounded by the best players at Barcelona which makes your job easier. One player missing from the list is gazza he really fucked it up he could/should of been one of the all time greats. ...agree about Gazza - such a clever footballer with explosive pace, dribbling ability, and incisive forward passing (remember, he was a true 'midfielder', not a forward/striker!)...but then he f**ked-up his knee... For me, top three best-ever are 1)Messi, 2)Maradona, and 3)Best |
|
|
|
Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Jun 14, 2019 0:03:08 GMT 1
How come Mounié is missing from the list?
|
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Jun 14, 2019 1:23:29 GMT 1
Don't our ever watch Spanish football? I'm sure you've said before that you don't so I'm not sure how you can say every game is a free for all for his team. The top 6 in that league didn't break records like the top 6 in the Premier League did this season. Statistically Messi just had one of the best seasons of his career in terms of all round player Hazard whilst a very good player is nowhere near that bracket. If he scores 50 goals next season in a similar team and position then we can see if he's getting there. People said it was all about Xavi then Iniesta but his record of goals, chances created and dribbles all round has got better since they left. I think Pele, again whilst obviously a great player, is judged too easily on a few games every 4 years against opposition that when you look at it now is shocking. People argue Messi's record because it's in Spain (despite his record against top English sides which again he is miles ahead of Hazard despite playing vastly superior games against them) but Pele's is far worse in terms of opposition faced. I used to watch spanish football quite a lot. Been over there to watch it live. The refereeing killed it for me as it became a no contact cheat fest. Games like 'El Classico' are unbearable to watch IMO. Two sides just trying to get each other sent off. If Hazard had been playing for man city these last couple of years, then that would be the equivalent of how Messi has it in Spain for the bulk of his career. Think in Messi and Hazard, youve got the best players in each of La Liga and the prem. Different leagues with different challenges so hard to prove one way of another whos better. Id put them on a par myself but like I said next season should be interesting, though Real seem to be in a bit of a transition just now. But IMO if Messi really wanted to be fairly compared to Cristiano Ronaldo as the greatest ever, then he should have left his comfort zone in Barca and done it in the prem aswell where its more physical, more intense and competitive.,, no winter breaks, shit weather etc Bit different for Messi cos he started out at the very top of the tree as a kid, whereas CR had to work his way up there. I've seen Messi and Ronaldo kicked from pillar to post in Spain it's a myth about it not being physical. Messi most of the time gets up and gets on with it and to be fair Ronaldo got a lot better at it. The "he can't be the best because he hasn't played in the Premier League" is a bit little Englander. Do I think Messi could score against us, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Norwich, Brighton, Southampton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Everton? Considering how many goals he's scored against the best sides in this country (only Aguero and Vardy have scored more against the top 6 that are current players and they play them regularly) then obviously he could. From what I've seen close up the Premier League isn't that physical or intense. There's good games here and there but plenty of play acting and nothing games and for large parts it's certainly not competitive. Just because Hazard was the best in this country doesn't mean he's at the top of the tree. His goals output is nowhere near considering they play the same position and Hazard has actually played as the central striker more often. Messi started at Newells Old Boys, at the age he was still there Ronaldo was at Sporting Lisbon already. Just because Messi proved himself earlier on in his career (at a club miles away from where he lived not in the same country) shouldn't diminish that achievement. It's like he's criticised for being a naturally gifted footballer and made out that he doesn't work on his game. For the last couple of years he's been the best free kick taker in the world for example. His passing gets better every year despite already having stats better than any player over the last 20 years. |
|
|
|
Post by Town Duppy on Jun 14, 2019 6:17:18 GMT 1
How come Mounié is missing from the list? Not just the list. |
|
|
|
Post by froggyterrier on Jun 14, 2019 6:50:56 GMT 1
Schmeichel
Cafu Beckenbaur Baresi Maldini
Scholes Mattheus Cruyff
Maradona Pele Best
|
|
|
|
Post by froggyterrier on Jun 14, 2019 10:47:22 GMT 1
Yashin
Thuram Ferdinand Moore Carlos
Zidane Makelele Ronaldinho
Messi Ronaldo C.Ronaldo
Second team
|
|
|
|
Post by froggyterrier on Jun 14, 2019 10:49:59 GMT 1
Zoff
Alves Nesta Canavaro Lizarazu
Garrincha Zico Edwards Giggs
Di Stefano Eusebio
Reserves
|
|
|
|
Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jun 14, 2019 11:10:27 GMT 1
I’m not sure which Ferdinand you are putting before Nesta and Cannavaro but whichever it is it’s not a Ferdinand I’m familiar with.
|
|
|
|
Post by Town Duppy on Jun 14, 2019 13:29:48 GMT 1
I’m not sure which Ferdinand you are putting before Nesta and Cannavaro but whichever it is it’s not a Ferdinand I’m familiar with. Franz. |
|
|
|
Post by froggyterrier on Jun 14, 2019 13:41:18 GMT 1
I’m not sure which Ferdinand you are putting before Nesta and Cannavaro but whichever it is it’s not a Ferdinand I’m familiar with. Rio Ferdinand was an outrageously good defender. Comfortably the best this country has ever produced along with Moore. Heavily underrated because he always came across such a weapon, but if you don't appreciate his quality for what it was, that's your problem. |
|
