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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jun 14, 2019 14:49:29 GMT 1
I’m not sure which Ferdinand you are putting before Nesta and Cannavaro but whichever it is it’s not a Ferdinand I’m familiar with. Rio Ferdinand was an outrageously good defender. Comfortably the best this country has ever produced along with Moore. Heavily underrated because he always came across such a weapon, but if you don't appreciate his quality for what it was, that's your problem. Oooohhh touchy. |
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Post by froggyterrier on Jun 14, 2019 15:28:14 GMT 1
Rio Ferdinand was an outrageously good defender. Comfortably the best this country has ever produced along with Moore. Heavily underrated because he always came across such a weapon, but if you don't appreciate his quality for what it was, that's your problem. Oooohhh touchy. Wasn't intended like that. Type is a difficult medium to convey mood. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 14, 2019 18:14:33 GMT 1
I used to watch spanish football quite a lot. Been over there to watch it live. The refereeing killed it for me as it became a no contact cheat fest. Games like 'El Classico' are unbearable to watch IMO. Two sides just trying to get each other sent off. If Hazard had been playing for man city these last couple of years, then that would be the equivalent of how Messi has it in Spain for the bulk of his career. Think in Messi and Hazard, youve got the best players in each of La Liga and the prem. Different leagues with different challenges so hard to prove one way of another whos better. Id put them on a par myself but like I said next season should be interesting, though Real seem to be in a bit of a transition just now. But IMO if Messi really wanted to be fairly compared to Cristiano Ronaldo as the greatest ever, then he should have left his comfort zone in Barca and done it in the prem aswell where its more physical, more intense and competitive.,, no winter breaks, shit weather etc Bit different for Messi cos he started out at the very top of the tree as a kid, whereas CR had to work his way up there. I've seen Messi and Ronaldo kicked from pillar to post in Spain it's a myth about it not being physical. Messi most of the time gets up and gets on with it and to be fair Ronaldo got a lot better at it. The "he can't be the best because he hasn't played in the Premier League" is a bit little Englander. Do I think Messi could score against us, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Norwich, Brighton, Southampton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Everton? Considering how many goals he's scored against the best sides in this country (only Aguero and Vardy have scored more against the top 6 that are current players and they play them regularly) then obviously he could. From what I've seen close up the Premier League isn't that physical or intense. There's good games here and there but plenty of play acting and nothing games and for large parts it's certainly not competitive. Just because Hazard was the best in this country doesn't mean he's at the top of the tree. His goals output is nowhere near considering they play the same position and Hazard has actually played as the central striker more often. Messi started at Newells Old Boys, at the age he was still there Ronaldo was at Sporting Lisbon already. Just because Messi proved himself earlier on in his career (at a club miles away from where he lived not in the same country) shouldn't diminish that achievement. It's like he's criticised for being a naturally gifted footballer and made out that he doesn't work on his game. For the last couple of years he's been the best free kick taker in the world for example. His passing gets better every year despite already having stats better than any player over the last 20 years. Think were going round in circles here. Hope it doesn;t come across as me criticising Messi, because i don;t mean to. Hes an outstanding player and has been for years. Just personally, CR was better and is the best theres ever been. Just had more to his game and has had a more rounded career to back it up. Im sure Messi would be great in the prem... but he hasn't been, so it leaves his career a bit 'easy street' if you like... the best player for the best team in an uncompetitive division ( for Barca anyway ). Nothing wrong with that, but when compared to what CR has achieved, it just isn;t as good. And id also add that Messi plays well when Barcelona play well. When they don;t he tends to disappear. Same with Argentina. Their game at Anfield was typical. CR isn;t like that. He carries his side. Hes a leader.. a driver of men... and that all adds to his greatest ever label. How many times have Portugal been crap at world cups and Euros and its CR that somehow gets them through? Look at Real Madrid now hes moved on.. gone from CL winners to not even competing in the league.. one of their poorest seasons for ages. The importance he had on that side was huge. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jun 14, 2019 20:26:39 GMT 1
I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. I dont CR past his best....just as outstanding last season at 33. www.foxsportsasia.com/football/1009115/cristiano-ronaldo-vs-lionel-messi-in-2018-who-had-the-better-year/ |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by Rambo on Jun 14, 2019 21:33:30 GMT 1
You could add, Laudrup and Hagi to your list too. And Scifo and Valderama and Socrates. And Hristo Stoichkov of Bulgaria. |
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 735
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Post by Rambo on Jun 14, 2019 21:36:26 GMT 1
I wish England had an international flop that has scored 67 goals in 130 international games (more competitive than half the European international games), has won an Olympic gold medal, an under 20 World Cup, been in a World cup final and 3 Copa America finals. Yep he's absolutely flunked internationally. If Higuain could shoot he'd probably have won a World cup and 2 of those Copa america's. Meant him being a flop more than his country. Thinking of world cups, Messi has never really managed to emulate his club form for Argentina, or anything like it. I know he got player of the tournament in one of them ( Brazil ? ) but it was a joke of a decision. Pele was all about world cups and Ronaldo has often carried portugal on his own. CR is a bit past his best now but still a great player. Think Hazzard is up there with Messi at the moment as the best there is. But at their best, Cristiano Ronaldo all day long for me. Just an all round player.. good at everything. More to his game than Messi and a lot more to his career. Micky Hazzard??? |
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fcvaduz
George Donis Terrier
Posts: 21
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Post by fcvaduz on Jun 15, 2019 19:02:04 GMT 1
There's no option for Thomas Heary???
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jun 15, 2019 23:47:12 GMT 1
Lee Clark.
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Post by Amigo on Jun 16, 2019 6:29:16 GMT 1
I've seen Messi and Ronaldo kicked from pillar to post in Spain it's a myth about it not being physical. Messi most of the time gets up and gets on with it and to be fair Ronaldo got a lot better at it. The "he can't be the best because he hasn't played in the Premier League" is a bit little Englander. Do I think Messi could score against us, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Norwich, Brighton, Southampton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Everton? Considering how many goals he's scored against the best sides in this country (only Aguero and Vardy have scored more against the top 6 that are current players and they play them regularly) then obviously he could. From what I've seen close up the Premier League isn't that physical or intense. There's good games here and there but plenty of play acting and nothing games and for large parts it's certainly not competitive. Just because Hazard was the best in this country doesn't mean he's at the top of the tree. His goals output is nowhere near considering they play the same position and Hazard has actually played as the central striker more often. Messi started at Newells Old Boys, at the age he was still there Ronaldo was at Sporting Lisbon already. Just because Messi proved himself earlier on in his career (at a club miles away from where he lived not in the same country) shouldn't diminish that achievement. It's like he's criticised for being a naturally gifted footballer and made out that he doesn't work on his game. For the last couple of years he's been the best free kick taker in the world for example. His passing gets better every year despite already having stats better than any player over the last 20 years. Think were going round in circles here. Hope it doesn;t come across as me criticising Messi, because i don;t mean to. Hes an outstanding player and has been for years. Just personally, CR was better and is the best theres ever been. Just had more to his game and has had a more rounded career to back it up. Im sure Messi would be great in the prem... but he hasn't been, so it leaves his career a bit 'easy street' if you like... the best player for the best team in an uncompetitive division ( for Barca anyway ). Nothing wrong with that, but when compared to what CR has achieved, it just isn;t as good. And id also add that Messi plays well when Barcelona play well. When they don;t he tends to disappear. Same with Argentina. Their game at Anfield was typical. CR isn;t like that. He carries his side. Hes a leader.. a driver of men... and that all adds to his greatest ever label. How many times have Portugal been crap at world cups and Euros and its CR that somehow gets them through? Look at Real Madrid now hes moved on.. gone from CL winners to not even competing in the league.. one of their poorest seasons for ages. The importance he had on that side was huge. Don't know really how Ronaldo has more to his game. In terms of goals there's been nothing in it. Messi is the best passer in the world (statiscally) over the last nearly 10 years, he's a better dribbler, the best free kick taker in the world, covers more ground, he's generally crap at penalties I'll give you that and aerially Ronaldo is obviously better. Playing for United when they were the best team in England, Juventus in a one horse race and then one of the big 2 in Spain isn't really proving himself in that sense. I'm sure Messi would win the league at City or Juventus or even Bayern if he was to go there. Can't agree that he only plays well when Barcelona play well. They aren't that good of a team at the moment. Coutinho coasted through the Premier league but has got nowhere near that form in la liga, Dembele has been poor, Suarez has been hit and miss for the past year. Vidal hasn't really worked neither has Arthur yet so the fact his all round stats have gone up without Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar seems to suggest Barcelona generally play well when he does rather than the other way round rather than just concentrating on one game last season. Take Messi out of that Barcelona team and they wouldn't be too cracking. Just because he hasn't played in the Premier League doesn't mean a thing. Not all the best players do it's not the be all and end all. The comment about Madrid now doesn't make much sense when you think Juventus only got to the quarter final with Ronaldo last season. They did that without him the season before, got to the final the year before that and the quarter finals the year before that. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 9:39:56 GMT 1
See Messi did the square root of fuck all but moan last night. Beat in Copa America by Colombia 2-0, missed a sitter too. Absolutely garbage on the international scene, thats why he isnt my GOAT
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