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Post by VLP Fan Club on Aug 6, 2019 7:54:46 GMT 1
Well... where to start, I’ve written this after sleeping on it so my thoughts are clearer.
Unfortunately this is why you can’t read too much into pre-season as tonight we looked miles off it.
The same issues from the Premiership we saw week in week out were apparent tonight, poor individual mistakes which lead to us chasing the game with little to zero goal threat.
Grabara - brave and confident when needed and produced a good save from Waghorn, could of been worse if not for him.
Flo - tones of energy nevertheless exposed badly by Lawrence, far too easily skilled by their centre half! And put in what must of been 38 crosses that failed to reach either a dangerous area or one of our men.
Elphick - 32 year old centre half with bags of experience in this division, shouldering the ball back to the keeper? Looked like he was running in mud all night.
Schindler - looked off it, jaded and slow and sloppy in possession. Battled well as he always does.
Kongolo - best centre half in the league, PLAY HIM THERE!
Mooy - looked unfit, so sloppy on the ball, one good driven drive from 25 yards and he kicked on a bit then.
Bacuna - far too much energy, like an excited child after 10 blue smarties, never looked comfortable running with the ball or picking a pass which lead to derby retaining possession, did well for the penalty.
Hogg - his industrious self but was let down by players around him which made him look less affective.
Diakhaby - teach him to pass/shoot and he’s £50 million, pace that would scare any defender in the league, however simple pass to Pritchard and it’s 1-0, unfortunately you cannot teach a footballing brain.
Pritchard - MOTM for me, miles better on that left hand side cutting in and finding space, albeit not to the degree Lawrence did, encouraging in spells.
Grant - confident penalty, never looked like missing. Will score goals at this level but players around need to be better.
Kachunga - pointless bringing a player on just because they work hard, a striker should not be putting a chance from 8 yards over and wide as much as he did.
Mbenza - some neat touches and passes, didn’t really ever drive at their right back and pen him back, too easy to play against and didn’t look to ever threaten them.
Quaner - didn’t have long enough to do anything but foul Keogh, strange bringing Grant off for Quaner when you’re chasing a game.
VLP - (an extra note) needed to be on the bench, our most effective winger in the promotion season and arguably the best winger in our debut premier league season, can beat a man and make things happen.
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Post by richhtfc on Aug 6, 2019 8:02:44 GMT 1
Thought Kongolo and Pritchard had poor games and Schindler, Mooy and Flo were our best players personally, funny how we see things differently.
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Post by philstarbuckscoffee on Aug 6, 2019 8:47:13 GMT 1
Well... where to start, I’ve written this after sleeping on it so my thoughts are clearer. Unfortunately this is why you can’t read too much into pre-season as tonight we looked miles off it. The same issues from the Premiership we saw week in week out were apparent tonight, poor individual mistakes which lead to us chasing the game with little to zero goal threat. Grabara - brave and confident when needed and produced a good save from Waghorn, could of been worse if not for him. Flo - tones of energy nevertheless exposed badly by Lawrence, far too easily skilled by their centre half! And put in what must of been 38 crosses that failed to reach either a dangerous area or one of our men. Elphick - 32 year old centre half with bags of experience in this division, shouldering the ball back to the keeper? Looked like he was running in mud all night. Schindler - looked off it, jaded and slow and sloppy in possession. Battled well as he always does. Kongolo - best centre half in the league, PLAY HIM THERE! Mooy - looked unfit, so sloppy on the ball, one good driven drive from 25 yards and he kicked on a bit then. Bacuna - far too much energy, like an excited child after 10 blue smarties, never looked comfortable running with the ball or picking a pass which lead to derby retaining possession, did well for the penalty. Hogg - his industrious self but was let down by players around him which made him look less affective. Diakhaby - teach him to pass/shoot and he’s £50 million, pace that would scare any defender in the league, however simple pass to Pritchard and it’s 1-0, unfortunately you cannot teach a footballing brain. Pritchard - MOTM for me, miles better on that left hand side cutting in and finding space, albeit not to the degree Lawrence did, encouraging in spells. Grant - confident penalty, never looked like missing. Will score goals at this level but players around need to be better. Kachunga - pointless bringing a player on just because they work hard, a striker should not be putting a chance from 8 yards over and wide as much as he did. Mbenza - some neat touches and passes, didn’t really ever drive at their right back and pen him back, too easy to play against and didn’t look to ever threaten them. Quaner - didn’t have long enough to do anything but foul Keogh, strange bringing Grant off for Quaner when you’re chasing a game. VLP - (an extra note) needed to be on the bench, our most effective winger in the promotion season and arguably the best winger in our debut premier league season, can beat a man and make things happen. On Mbenza, he seems to have bags of pace but kept drifting in field when he could of got into space to receive the ball and trouble the back line. Any defender would be wary with the pace of Mbenza and Diakhaby but both to me seem to be lacking 'football intelligence.' When they can take up a good position to then attack the full backs they seem to drift inside and mark themselves. Kongolo overlapped time and time again 2nd half last night and Mbenza was doing my head in as he really could have threatened late on. Just wondered if someone could enlighten me if this is poor positional/game knowledge from the player or is Jan coaching them to drift inside and take these positions when we have the ball in the final third as I was going crazy last night at 2-1 down watching it happen in front of me? |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Aug 6, 2019 8:52:36 GMT 1
for the first 25 minutes Elphick was bloody awful. Our midfield went missing, their number 44 having freedom of the pitch.
screaming at the team about the gaping hole in midfield has taken its toll on my voicebox this morning.
Can we have a plan Jan?.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 6, 2019 8:58:56 GMT 1
Thought Kongolo and Pritchard had poor games and Schindler, Mooy and Flo were our best players personally, funny how we see things differently. Thought Mooy had a very poor game, was better in the second half and fizzed a shot close but looks like he's running in treacle and caught in possession a couple of times. Poor from him. |
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Post by andyboothscat on Aug 6, 2019 8:59:21 GMT 1
You’ve nailed it with Diakhaby. If he could pass or shoot he’d be an absolutely brilliant player - and thus wouldn’t be playing for Town.
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Post by richhtfc on Aug 6, 2019 9:00:58 GMT 1
for the first 25 minutes Elphick was bloody awful. Our midfield went missing, their number 44 having freedom of the pitch. screaming at the team about the gaping hole in midfield has taken its toll on my voicebox this morning. Can we have a plan Jan?. As I saw someone else mention on here, playing 4-3-3 and being that wide in the middle is a recipe for disaster, they have to get narrower and hunt in packs, we were just getting it passed around us. My worry with the current situation is that we have abandoned what we were good at which was pressing the life out of teams to attempt to play a more expansive game but I’m not sure we have the players/ability on the ball to play that way. |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Aug 6, 2019 9:06:25 GMT 1
Mooy didn't look interested to me, is it because he wants away? When he has a bad game the whole team has a bad game.
I agree pre-season results count for nothing, on this showing we are way off the pace and there are some tough fixtures coming up.
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Post by 4 head on Aug 6, 2019 9:08:59 GMT 1
Unpopular opinion, but I actually think we were better in the first half in the sense that we actually looked like scoring. Okay we defended poorly but at least we had a clear strategy, fast, counterattacking football.
The second half Derby sat in and it was just like last season. We couldn't break them down and never really looked like scoring.
I'm not sold on 433 either, but Derby seemed to make it work. Was our tactic just to pass it to a quick winger an hope they create something? It felt like a game of fifa where you stick the 2 fastest guys on the wing and hope for the best.
Puzzling really
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 9:12:24 GMT 1
Mooy didn't look interested to me, is it because he wants away? When he has a bad game the whole team has a bad game. I agree pre-season results count for nothing, on this showing we are way off the pace and there are some tough fixtures coming up. If he was putting himself in the shop window he might have to show a bit of interest. Wouldn't have been my man of the match though. |
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Post by In sooth- - on Aug 6, 2019 9:16:24 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo.
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Post by mickwadsworth26 on Aug 6, 2019 9:20:31 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. Promotion has already gone imo |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 6, 2019 9:22:46 GMT 1
You’ve nailed it with Diakhaby. If he could pass or shoot he’d be an absolutely brilliant player - and thus wouldn’t be playing for Town. If i could pass or shoot i'd be worth 50m. He can run fast, but he never does when he should. At one point in the first half, flo and Pritch had a good little interchange and ended up in the corner of the box, I'm looking for Diakhaby and he's just walked over the halfway line. Stealing a living. He's chuffing useless. IM is marginally better. Not a VLP fan, but good god, he's miles better than either of these two. |
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Post by iangreaves on Aug 6, 2019 9:22:52 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. 4-2-3-1 Hogg and Bacuna/O’Brien in midfield with Pritchard in the hole. |
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Post by malcolmbrown on Aug 6, 2019 9:23:00 GMT 1
Thought Kongolo and Pritchard had poor games and Schindler, Mooy and Flo were our best players personally, funny how we see things differently. You're having a giraffe surely? Pritchard was by far the best player we had last night. Admittedly that's like winning the Miss Dewsbury competition. |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Aug 6, 2019 9:23:05 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. Promotion?? Last night we looked like relegation candidates. I wouldn't mind so much if Derby had played well, but they didn't need to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 9:24:23 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. Promotion has already gone imo That's the spirit, only 45 games left to suffer. |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Aug 6, 2019 9:25:11 GMT 1
Thought Kongolo and Pritchard had poor games and Schindler, Mooy and Flo were our best players personally, funny how we see things differently. You're having a giraffe surely? Pritchard was by far the best player we had last night. Admittedly that's like winning the Miss Dewsbury competition. Actually I once dated Miss Dewsbury and she did look a lot like Pritchard 🤣 |
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Post by ldotm on Aug 6, 2019 9:27:37 GMT 1
Hard to not be deflated after that. All the buzz around a new season and we perform in such a manner. What have we been doing all pre-season? We look no different than last year - same structure, same strategy, same build up - piss poor. It was frightening to see right from the get-go the lack of cohesion in the units and the team as a whole. Nobody seemed to know their role, everyone looking nervous. I said a few minutes in to my dad that Lawrence is dropping centrally and between the defence & midfield and nobody is picking him up and he continued to do it through the first half.
If we get a similar performance against QPR then it is very worrying. Window is about to shut, some of the key players may still move to European clubs after our window if we have a disastrous start. Fans on the manager's back. Second half was better but it seemed largely due to Derby letting us have the ball and just defending and killing the game. Yet, still we looked like the team for the past few years - no innovation, just pass it side to side and hope to pick someone out in the box from a cross.
Player ratings;
Grabara - 6: Elphick's mistake for the first goal but I still think he misjudged it and didn't help the situation. However, made a good save and some of his distribution was ok. Far too early to judge but still think he's going to be a good player this season.
Hadergjonaj - 5: The guy has a proper engine, no doubt about it and gets up the field religiously. However, his end product is shite - continuously low crosses that were cleared by the first man & the cross where nobody was even there, sums him up. He also can't defend. If Bockhorn is no better, we've really fucked up letting Smith go and not replacing him.
Elphick - 3: Absolute shocker. I really wanted him to be the experienced, no-nonsense, winning mentality CB we would hope for. Absolute mare for the first goal & what really fucking pissed me off was that a few minutes later he attempted to do the same chest action again, albeit in a less dangerous area but after making such a hash of it, it looked like he was having a laugh attempting to do it again. Looked slow and ponderous and even positionally he was all over the place, dropping behind the defensive line.
Schindler - 6: Some of his distribution poor but made some solid tackles and won some brilliant headers. Would look a different beast with Kongolo next to him. Unlucky with the effort, good stop by the keeper. HAVE TO KEEP HOLD.
Kongolo - 5: As everyone has said - PLAY HIM AT CB JAN!!!! Made some decent overlapping runs but also made some poor decision making. We've seen how good he can be at CB in the foookin prem! It's as simple as this, play a 17m CB at CB!
Hogg - 6: Battled hard as per but again concerns over the cohesion and organisation of the CM's. Has to be down to Jan but looked nothing like the formidable partnership Mooy and him have had over the years.
Mooy - 5: Looked a shadow of a man in the first half. Lost more balls in that half then he usually does in half a season. Better second half and looked enthused and got stuck in a lot more. Need him to be controlling the game if we want to be hitting the top 6. Feel like he still may be going.
Bacuna - 4: Abysmal first half bar a great turn to win the pen. Could not keep the ball to save his life, passing it to anyone, running into Derby players. Looked better second half in a more advanced role but generally a game to forget for him - will see how serious his injury is.
Diakhaby - 6: An abundance of pace as we know but lacking a football brain - hopefully it's down to experience but his chance at the start epitomised it. Absolutely burnt for pace and then completely forgot what to do when on goal. Made a good few turns to get his going forward but just doesn't seem like a winger who's going to contribute a lot og goals. Also scared shitless of a tackle.
Pritchard - 7: Best player for Town I thought. By no means quality but looked very lively, was the one player constantly looking to move and create opportunities. Also thought his work rate was immense, never stopped battling and didn't shirk a challenge despite his size.
Grant - 5: Great pen but I don't even remember him being in the game at all. Maybe down to isolation but could have also been too easy to mark - both their CB's have zero pace and it was a field day for them.
Mbenza - 5: Played the odd okay ball, but did very little to change the game when we needed it.
Kachunga - 4: Works hard as we know but just lacks complete flair for a winger. The one thing we could rely on him a few years back was his composure in front of goal - yet missed a great chance to equalise.
Quaner - 5: Very limited time to make any impact but he's not who we should be turning to, years later with millions invested into the squad.
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Post by kennyk2 on Aug 6, 2019 9:29:54 GMT 1
Thought Kongolo and Pritchard had poor games and Schindler, Mooy and Flo were our best players personally, funny how we see things differently. Agree. |
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Post by mickwadsworth26 on Aug 6, 2019 9:32:12 GMT 1
Promotion has already gone imo That's the spirit, only 45 games left to suffer. Watching town for many years promotion has most definately gone. A couple more losses and we’ll be back to a half full ground |
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Post by kennyk2 on Aug 6, 2019 9:45:18 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. Promotion has already gone imo Thank you. On a rather poor morning, I've just pissed myself laughing at that. |
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Post by griffa on Aug 6, 2019 9:47:18 GMT 1
for the first 25 minutes Elphick was bloody awful. Our midfield went missing, their number 44 having freedom of the pitch. screaming at the team about the gaping hole in midfield has taken its toll on my voicebox this morning. Can we have a plan Jan?. Elphick was poor throughout the game. Making a major contribution to Derb's first goal! He constantly gave the ball away, sprayed long balls to nobody, time after time! He was dominated by their no 9, on a regular basis, lacked the required physicality, not good enough! - UTT. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 6, 2019 9:48:35 GMT 1
As far as I`m concerned, we can forget about promotion this season if Mooy goes unless Jan magically brings in a brilliant midfield dynamo. Promotion has already gone imo After 1 game? You related to Oti? Let's hope your prediction comes back to bite you in the arse... |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 6, 2019 10:00:26 GMT 1
Flo just seems laboured in everything he does. He isn't a fluent player marauding down the wing when attacking. Elphick seemed a little lost & only he knows what he was trying to do with that ball that led to their first goal.
Trying to be objective here, we probably tried too hard at times. There was too much of the Hollywood stuff being attempted by one or two of the players and although a few slick passing moves came off, we're not a side that sits naturally into that way of playing.
Looking at Derby, I think their back 4 has a few mistakes in them & I was a little disappointed that we didn't press them more. Sky were talking about Matt Clarke as some sort of ball playing wizard, but I think he'll be found out if you play a full on press against him.
Let's not let this week on here get back to the reactionary sniping that IMHO doesn't solve anything.
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nshackle
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by nshackle on Aug 6, 2019 10:45:29 GMT 1
I thought Bacuna was dreadful last night, in particular the first half. The amount of times he gave the ball away with misplaced passes or holding on to it for too long instead of passing to a team mate long was ridiculous. I used to get frustrated with Palmer for doing similar things
He was slightly better in the second half and got in some decent attacking positions, but his decision making was poor. I wouldn't wish injury on anyone but the situation was a blessing as I'm not convinced Siewert would have substituted him otherwise. He should have gone off at half time for me !
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Post by Floyds on Aug 6, 2019 10:54:51 GMT 1
Promotion has already gone imo Thank you. On a rather poor morning, I've just pissed myself laughing at that. I don't think there's any chance of promotion. Predicted mid table before the season started if we managed to keep hold of our "better" players. We're on a shocking run and have the same players, management, style and tactics as last season. Zero confidence yet somehow people expect us to suddenly start winning games. Given we lost to two Championship sides last season as well this looked optimistic... Personally, I think we need to sign a couple of proven Championship players to bolster the squad. Without going into the "where's the money gone?" or having a go at any of our players - the fact that Kachunga and Quaner came on last night when we needed a goal summed up the quality of our squad. A big couple of weeks ahead for all concerned. |
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Post by townrwe on Aug 6, 2019 10:56:01 GMT 1
I thought Bacuna was dreadful last night, in particular the first half. The amount of times he gave the ball away with misplaced passes or holding on to it for too long instead of passing to a team mate long was ridiculous. I used to get frustrated with Palmer for doing similar things He was slightly better in the second half and got in some decent attacking positions, but his decision making was poor. I wouldn't wish injury on anyone but the situation was a blessing as I'm not convinced Siewert would have substituted him otherwise. He should have gone off at half time for me ! Hogg and Mooy also got schooled by Derby, not sure its fair to just blame Bacuna, First 10 in the second half he was the best player, then he got injured. |
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Post by artysid on Aug 6, 2019 10:58:19 GMT 1
I thought Bacuna was dreadful last night, in particular the first half. The amount of times he gave the ball away with misplaced passes or holding on to it for too long instead of passing to a team mate long was ridiculous. I used to get frustrated with Palmer for doing similar things He was slightly better in the second half and got in some decent attacking positions, but his decision making was poor. I wouldn't wish injury on anyone but the situation was a blessing as I'm not convinced Siewert would have substituted him otherwise. He should have gone off at half time for me ! Probably the most exciting player in the squad, but he does have an habit of taking risks and losing the ball in dangerous positions. |
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Post by Gold Coast Terrier on Aug 6, 2019 11:04:22 GMT 1
From the first minute it felt to me like we were playing with ten men, whereas in the promotion season we were so organised it felt like we were a man up.
I know it’s not ‘his team’, I just want to see what Jan is trying to do. He talks about pressing but we gave them all the time in the world in our half
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