Double training sessions gone, Jan, Hoyle and Hodgkinson

[deo1]

When Wagner first took over I’m sure I remember Hoyle was impressed with the professionalism and culture he brought over to town with the double training sessions and training at the time of KO be it a morning, afternoon or night game.

Today Hudson said he’s reintroduced the double training sessions back to the club. Why did we appoint a German coach who moved away from these double sessions as we were supposedly building an identity at town which has now been firmly thrown out of the window? It looks like since he has been appointed the leadership at the top has been none existent and that when Hoyle wasn’t well Winter and the rest of the directors/football operations have made a right royal balls up. Hoyle would’ve sanctioned the appointment of Siewert so he’s far from blameless seeing we’ve been scouting and watching him for 3 years but I’m baffled why since Siewert was appointed everything from the build up to training regime have been changed and left like this for nigh on 9 months. Show us what your made of Phil.

Hodgkinson has come to a right cross road at town. He’s rebranded the club, said a lot regarding how he backed Siewert and then about how important the transfer window was but delivered nothing. He now needs to show the town fans what he’s all about with the vision and forward thinking that a new manager should being to the club. Hopefully that will include more attacking football with emphasis on a fit and committed squad which is something we are lacking at the moment. At the moment I’m not convinced we will get this right and all my positivity over the summer of how we would do this season is well and truly out of the window.

[aca00js]

This is the biggest mystery for me. If we had an identity why did we appoint Siewert? He didn't seem to match anything we were doing, he played a different system and now had a different approach to training Just all seems like very stupid planning and decisions to me

[bluewater]

I’ve said on another thread WHEN did the double training sessions stop! If I was the chairman I would be furious it was the main reason we were successful under Wagner.

[woofy80]

I think it was too much for Jan. Straight away the media were comparing him to Wagner in that he's German, was coach of Dortmund 2, so I can see why he would want to change things and put his own stamp on how coaching and training sessions went. Obviously it's been a total mess, but we need to put it in the past now and move forward. We can't go on expecting another Wagner to arrive and work miracles or we will end up with another JS. This season is now about staying up and getting back an identity that encourages the kind of support that we saw in the first half today.

[kcarlson]

Aug 24, 2019 20:47:31 GMT 1 woofy80 said:

I think it was too much for Jan. Straight away the media were comparing him to Wagner in that he's German, was coach of Dortmund 2, so I can see why he would want to change things and put his own stamp on how coaching and training sessions went. Obviously it's been a total mess, but we need to put it in the past now and move forward. We can't go on expecting another Wagner to arrive and work miracles or we will end up with another JS. This season is now about staying up and getting back an identity that encourages the kind of support that we saw in the first half today.

This.

[Baby-face Frankenstein]

Aug 24, 2019 20:34:08 GMT 1 deo1 said:

When Wagner first took over I’m sure I remember Hoyle was impressed with the professionalism and culture he brought over to town with the double training sessions and training at the time of KO be it a morning, afternoon or night game.

Today Hudson said he’s reintroduced the double training sessions back to the club. Why did we appoint a German coach who moved away from these double sessions as we were supposedly building an identity at town which has now been firmly thrown out of the window? It looks like since he has been appointed the leadership at the top has been none existent and that when Hoyle wasn’t well Winter and the rest of the directors/football operations have made a right royal balls up. Hoyle would’ve sanctioned the appointment of Siewert so he’s far from blameless seeing we’ve been scouting and watching him for 3 years but I’m baffled why since Siewert was appointed everything from the build up to training regime have been changed and left like this for nigh on 9 months. Show us what your made of Phil.

Hodgkinson has come to a right cross road at town. He’s rebranded the club, said a lot regarding how he backed Siewert and then about how important the transfer window was but delivered nothing. He now needs to show the town fans what he’s all about with the vision and forward thinking that a new manager should being to the club. Hopefully that will include more attacking football with emphasis on a fit and committed squad which is something we are lacking at the moment. At the moment I’m not convinced we will get this right and all my positivity over the summer of how we would do this season is well and truly out of the window.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this the other day. I shrugged it off with the notion that surely a German coach would be having the team do 2 sessions a day. It was Hudson and Whitehead of course who initially helped out Wagner in persuading the players to accept the 2 sessions a day rule (I think there were a few English O-mouths when Wagner first suggested it - it was/is the norm in Germany).

So I'm absolutely staggered that Hudson is "reintroducing" this. It means that Siewert had them lallygagging about after one, pitiful session a day.

Not good. And what's more - I get the impression that the competition has caught us up (the likes of Derby and Fulham and Reading are now doing the 2 sessions a day) whilst we're left choking on what was our initial import from Germany.

BLOODY DISGRACE!!

[midlander]

Seen it said a few times before that the double sessions stopped a long time before Siewert was appointed. Have a feeling that Wagner stopped them a long time since. However, the lack of fitness this season is absolutely startling.

[Farsley Terrier (UK product)]

Aug 24, 2019 20:44:45 GMT 1 bluewater said:

I’ve said on another thread WHEN did the double training sessions stop! If I was the chairman I would be furious it was the main reason we were successful under Wagner.

Wagner stopped them when we were promoted

[Paphos Terrier]

Hudsons brought them back because we're so unfit, simple

[aca00js]

What an utter waste of time and money the club has spent backing Jan, as others have mentioned he is the worst manager we have ever had. When your players can't last 90 minutes then that is a disgrace

[FloridaTerrier]

MH has not laidback on calling out the previous regime. He seems mightily pissed off about lack of fitness that was implemented. We could all see it. My question is as a coach, if he knew it wasn't enough. Why did he not speak up? Why did the more experienced players not speak up? Hogg? Schindler? etc etc

[benhomly]

It was an awful appointment and once again the club messed up. They’d been tracking him for years as Wagners successor but I’m sure they didn’t expect to make the appointment under the circumstances they did. They would have expected that Wagner would have been headhunted because the team was doing well and therefore Siewert would be inheriting a team full of confidence so in theory the transition would be fairly seamless.

Once it was clear that was not going to be the case no-one had the common sense to think that it might not be the best time to bring him in. He was hung out to dry from the first day. Total shambles by Deano and his team.

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2019 0:39:07 GMT 1 FloridaTerrier said:

MH has not laidback on calling out the previous regime. He seems mightily pissed off about lack of fitness that was implemented. We could all see it. My question is as a coach, if he knew it wasn't enough. Why did he not speak up? Why did the more experienced players not speak up? Hogg? Schindler? etc etc

Well at least one who spoke out is in the EPL now?

Maybe they should have.

[iangreaves]

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2019 7:43:50 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

No time at all...it's the losing/chasing football that makes them look unfit.

[HuddsTerrier]

Aug 25, 2019 0:39:07 GMT 1 FloridaTerrier said:

MH has not laidback on calling out the previous regime. He seems mightily pissed off about lack of fitness that was implemented. We could all see it. My question is as a coach, if he knew it wasn't enough. Why did he not speak up? Why did the more experienced players not speak up? Hogg? Schindler? etc etc

Like winklers weird sacking I now wonder whether there more to JS weird decision to strip smith and Hogg of the captaincy and vice captain - the timing was rank

Aside from the poor base fitness and unbalanced squad (no left back) which JS has left us. I’m wondering what damage his man management style had on our prospects of retaining people like smith. Then there’s the odd decisions like initially freezing out Pritchard for the first month (others also frozen out), dropping mooy then playing him on the wing etc

When PH said 8 within a week said they wanted out - was JS approach a factor in pushing some over the line. Lowe said he’d never known a harder season so to top that off with a shouty manager with according to billing a big ego who froze people out and publicly threw the under the bus was maybe the last straw for some

Players needed a arm around their shoulder - they were shell shocked - instead they got something different it would seem from comments

[yellowbelly]

Aug 25, 2019 8:04:55 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

Aug 25, 2019 0:39:07 GMT 1 FloridaTerrier said:

MH has not laidback on calling out the previous regime. He seems mightily pissed off about lack of fitness that was implemented. We could all see it. My question is as a coach, if he knew it wasn't enough. Why did he not speak up? Why did the more experienced players not speak up? Hogg? Schindler? etc etc

Like winklers weird sacking I now wonder whether there more to JS weird decision to strip smith and Hogg of the captaincy and vice captain - the timing was rank

Aside from the poor base fitness and unbalanced squad (no left back) which JS has left us. I’m wondering what damage his man management style had on our prospects of retaining people like smith. Then there’s the odd decisions like initially freezing out Pritchard for the first month (others also frozen out), dropping mooy then playing him on the wing etc

When PH said 8 within a week said they wanted out - was JS approach a factor in pushing some over the line. Lowe said he’d never known a harder season so to top that off with a shouty manager with according to billing a big ego who froze people out and publicly threw the under the boss was maybe the last straw for some

Players needed a arm around their shoulder - they were shell shocked - instead they got something different it would seem from comments

Notice Smith is on the bench now

[65terrier]

Assuming there's no appointment into the role, Hudson now has a period of one game in 3 weeks to work on fitness (amongst the strategic work)
This should give him time to put his stamp on the team, after the Luton game we will see if he can turn this around.
Yes, recruitment has been poor, but I don't believe the players are sub-championship level. Confidence is a big factor and it was seen to evaporate when Reading scored their first.

[BLUE&WHITE]

Aug 25, 2019 10:29:03 GMT 1 65terrier said:

Assuming there's no appointment into the role, Hudson now has a period of one game in 3 weeks to work on fitness (amongst the strategic work)
This should give him time to put his stamp on the team, after the Luton game we will see if he can turn this around.
Yes, recruitment has been poor, but I don't believe the players are sub-championship level. Confidence is a big factor and it was seen to evaporate when Reading scored their first.

Confidence is huge and vastly underestimated by most. If we had started with an easier run or just won against derby then I think everything would be different

But its not. We now need to build the resilience and grit into these players (like Wagner did with the underdogs tag) and instead of them going out shitting themselves, we need them itching to get at the other team and a bit of attitude back.

I actually think Hudson will do it. I'm very impressed with him so far. I know people are saying 'why didn't he do something about the fitness' but perhaps he tried and thats why there was a rift with the management.

The thing is that rather than being moany, he seems to have a bit of fire in his belly about it all. He seems genuinely pissed off (the players can be seen to tire late into the games) and he's creating a bit of togetherness and siege mentality by putting the past behind them.

Good management.

[dirtysteve]

Where’s all the money gone? When did we sack off double training sessions? Why was JS appointed? Why’ve we done fuck all in transfer window? Why haven’t the likes of MH not spoke out, and/or done fuck all regarding fitness of the squad and the lack of identity that saw us utilising the gegenpress?
We all know we need a new face who can sort out the mess that we are cure in. Will PH spend big to get a quality manger in, or will he go for a cheap option? Personally the lack of money we apparently don’t have is bewildering and leads me to think that PH has pocketed it and Town fans will have to endure another dire season with the probability of relegation a serious threat. Being in the big time for the last 2 seasons has made us a weaker team which I find completely staggering.
Whoever we appoint needs to bring his own team in and the lines of MH etc need to be chinned off. Familiarity between MH and the squad needs to be cut off and we need to find our identity again. Will we? I have my reservations......

[deadleg]

Aug 25, 2019 7:43:50 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

I vaguely recall when Wagner came in and inherited a really unfit looking squad from Powell we came back from an international break looking a hell of a lot fitter (albeit obviously still not to the level that he wanted) so hopefully it shouldn't be too long until we see a difference.

At least Hudson has identified it in no uncertain terms so we can work on it in the meantime and whoever comes in isn't having to start at zero.

[Million Dollar Babies]

Aug 25, 2019 7:47:33 GMT 1 @bacunafrittata said:

Aug 25, 2019 7:43:50 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

No time at all...it's the losing/chasing football that makes them look unfit.

We had all the ball yesterday and still looked nackered by 60 minutes

[Nickhudds.UTT]

What on earth is going on !
Fitness is the simple thing !

Wowza

[Tinpot]

Aug 25, 2019 7:47:33 GMT 1 @bacunafrittata said:

Aug 25, 2019 7:43:50 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

No time at all...it's the losing/chasing football that makes them look unfit.

I'd suggest it was the fact they're blowing out of their arses mid way through the 2nd half that makes them look unfit.

[htfctx]

Aug 25, 2019 10:46:40 GMT 1 BLUE&WHITE said:

Aug 25, 2019 10:29:03 GMT 1 65terrier said:

Assuming there's no appointment into the role, Hudson now has a period of one game in 3 weeks to work on fitness (amongst the strategic work)
This should give him time to put his stamp on the team, after the Luton game we will see if he can turn this around.
Yes, recruitment has been poor, but I don't believe the players are sub-championship level. Confidence is a big factor and it was seen to evaporate when Reading scored their first.

Confidence is huge and vastly underestimated by most. If we had started with an easier run or just won against derby then I think everything would be different

But its not. We now need to build the resilience and grit into these players (like Wagner did with the underdogs tag) and instead of them going out shitting themselves, we need them itching to get at the other team and a bit of attitude back.

I actually think Hudson will do it. I'm very impressed with him so far. I know people are saying 'why didn't he do something about the fitness' but perhaps he tried and thats why there was a rift with the management.

The thing is that rather than being moany, he seems to have a bit of fire in his belly about it all. He seems genuinely pissed off (the players can be seen to tire late into the games) and he's creating a bit of togetherness and siege mentality by putting the past behind them.

Good management.

Fitness needs to be measured and progress recorded. Two a days doesn't mean running twice as far. Strength training, cardio and ball work are all different disciplines. Good management to identify a glaring weakness and have a strategy to riten the weakness into a strength. Measuring the progress places the responsibility into the professional. Where it should be.UTT

[Sparrow]

seems really strange that the first team weren't doing double training sessions when the Academy boys have been doing double sessions more or less every day.

The Academy boys are in from 9 - 4 everyday more or less.

Having said that, Warnock apparently doesn't do double sessions at Cardiff

[royrace]

Aug 25, 2019 11:05:02 GMT 1 deadleg said:

Aug 25, 2019 7:43:50 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Seeing as teams spend a full pre-season getting fit, how long will it take, realistically, to get our squad in shape.

I vaguely recall when Wagner came in and inherited a really unfit looking squad from Powell we came back from an international break looking a hell of a lot fitter (albeit obviously still not to the level that he wanted) so hopefully it shouldn't be too long until we see a difference.

At least Hudson has identified it in no uncertain terms so we can work on it in the meantime and whoever comes in isn't having to start at zero.

I wonder if it's the intensity of training rather than basic fitness metrics that are easy to measure. Wagner was always big on training the way you intend to play with a high intensity.

Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards

[stanton1969]

Do all teams do double training sessions? Including the ones that look fitter than us? And beat us?

You can train donkeys as many times a day as you like. It will not make them thoroughbred racehorses.

[Deleted]

Did Hudson not think we were unfit against Cardiff?

[terriers321]

What is it about all this identity bullshit. A manager brings his own ideas in and plans in good or bad as they maybe.