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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2019 9:19:58 GMT 1
If we suffer relegation again, then yes, we are back to where we started. Granted the infrastructure of the club maybe different but to all intents and purposes, back to square one. With a £20m training ground, a 40% share in the ground from zilch, Stadium improvements to Premier League standards, and money in the bank. Infrastructure may be different??  Given that the 20 million training ground doesn't appear fit for purpose I wouldn't say it was a plus. Money in the bank is no good to a football club unless it spends it on squad strengthening. |
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Post by malcolmbrown on Sept 21, 2019 9:22:01 GMT 1
God we desperately need a win to calm some of our fans down. You could have posted this 12 months ago. Our decline is so precipitous it's surprising we have fans still turning up. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Sept 21, 2019 9:22:51 GMT 1
With a £20m training ground, a 40% share in the ground from zilch, Stadium improvements to Premier League standards, and money in the bank. Infrastructure may be different?? Given that the 20 million training ground doesn't appear fit for purpose I wouldn't say it was a plus. Money in the bank is no good to a football club unless it spends it on squad strengthening. Money in the bank is exactly what club’s need for sustainability. Spend spend Viv comes to mind. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2019 9:28:00 GMT 1
Given that the 20 million training ground doesn't appear fit for purpose I wouldn't say it was a plus. Money in the bank is no good to a football club unless it spends it on squad strengthening. Money in the bank is exactly what club’s need for sustainability. Spend spend Viv comes to mind. Whilst the club flounders on the pitch? Yeah course it is mate. A clubs financial success is generated by what happens in the pitch simple as that. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 21, 2019 9:29:50 GMT 1
Why would you be bothered about that? I remember asking you when we were bottom of the championship if you'd stop moaning if we got in the prem. You said yes but you moaned more than ever when we got there. Maybe you'd be happier if we were pissing the vanarama? Is this from your dossier? You seem to be able to recall to hand a lot of stuff I said, even stuff I don't. I didn't moan the first season but the club have completed made a dog's dinner of its PL years that it's hard to do anything other than moan. To be honest I've been quite reserved on criticism of the club of late but let's be honest, we could see this coming a mile off. Yup you did moan first season. Its all there in the dossier. Soon to be serialised |
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Post by malcolmbrown on Sept 21, 2019 9:30:11 GMT 1
Long time lurker, first time poster and I’m sure this one will ruffle a few feathers but I know I’m not alone in my thinking after chatting with many town fans recently. The harsh, depressing and ultimately inevitable consequence of Dean being paid back his full loan, then we are going to sink back into league one and perhaps take a long, long time to come back. Yes Dean is technically entitled to it but what an absolute waste of a chance to capitalise on the incredible position we’ve found ourselves in after Wagner worked miracles On a comparatively shoe string budget. For the first time in generations we’ve got great attendances and a chance to put the club on a much better footing but at present, and with the current momentum, we are spiralling back towards mediocrity. I also think that there are a few issues surrounding the recall of such a substantial amount of money that must be considered... If I gave a monkey my credit card, then I wouldn’t expect anyone else rather than me to pick up the bill; I gave it the card and sanctioned the transactions. A harsh analogy? Perhaps. But if I was ultimately responsible for employing two shoddy directors of football and on a top of that not even having one for the majority of our prem league campaign then you have to accept that your scouting network is going to be vastly underdeveloped and this has shown in the quite frankly shoddy transfer dealings over the past two seasons which now seem to be severely hindering us; on the playing field but most significantly financially. Iif that formed part of my legacy as chairmen then I’d sure as hell not be asking for THAt chunk/portion of my loan back. As a lifelong town fan, if someone said to me that I could sacrifice one tenth of my wealth to see us establish ourselves as a top 30 club for the years to come then I would in a heartbeat; in truth I’ve probably spent more than 10% of my wealth following town over the years and I’d never expect to see this back. Rubery was derided for his decision to stop financing the club; Davey was derided for putting nothing in; yet if we are looking at net loss incurred by all the chairmen of town over the years, if Dean gets all his money back, then I can’t think of anyone who has come out as well as Dean! . I appreciate under dean we have come so far, I expect few on here to agree. Fundamentally, I hope that Dean is looking at us at present and feeling that something can be arranged to help us out; we’ve preached for years about being sustainable, achieving longevity; if we fall like a stone over the next few years then it’s fair to say that we’ve spectacularly failed to achieve this vision, despite and I quote the words of Dean: ‘not blowing our brains out’... We’ve ended up with at least a 50million debt, a poor squad, no ownership of the stadium and no academy; I’m not even sure that we own our own training ground. we have a academy we have 40 percent of stadium and a long lease on canalside as for your post get in the real world some of the fans on here you included live in fantasy world. What a silly post How the chuff is it silly? I've been following Town for 40+ years mainly in the lower leagues but boy is it getting depressing watching boring, toothless football for literally years now. I haven't seen us win in 10 months. I'm struggling to recall us getting a point at home, bizarrely I think it might have been against Man U. So dismissing a perfectly valid post as silly is bizarre. |
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Post by El Mel on Sept 21, 2019 9:31:04 GMT 1
God we desperately need a win to calm some of our fans down. You could have posted this 12 months ago. Our decline is so precipitous it's surprising we have fans still turning up. 12 months ago I was probably warning folk of what we are seeing now. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2019 9:34:50 GMT 1
Is this from your dossier? You seem to be able to recall to hand a lot of stuff I said, even stuff I don't. I didn't moan the first season but the club have completed made a dog's dinner of its PL years that it's hard to do anything other than moan. To be honest I've been quite reserved on criticism of the club of late but let's be honest, we could see this coming a mile off. Yup you did moan first season. Its all there in the dossier. Soon to be serialised It's be a boring read mate in all honesty. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Sept 21, 2019 9:38:16 GMT 1
Money in the bank is exactly what club’s need for sustainability. Spend spend Viv comes to mind. Whilst the club flounders on the pitch? Yeah course it is mate. A clubs financial success is generated by what happens in the pitch simple as that. Really? Bury have just had a great season and got promoted, how are they doing financially? |
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Post by hthtafs on Sept 21, 2019 9:38:47 GMT 1
We certainly will have less than Millwall & Brentford this financial year, maybe we will eclipse the revenue of a couple or 3 sides. Brentford I would imagine will move well ahead when they relocate. The point you are missing is relative to our size our revenue is paltry - commercially we punch below our weight. Given we turned over just £8.8m (ex TV) in our most successful season ever when we got promoted from the championship, god help us if we get relegated, with the likes of Mooy and Kongola on the books. You are confusing revenue with operating costs. Millwall’s revenue will be around £17 million this season, not far off what we got just for Billing. No I’m not towns operating costs will be Circa £50m this season. Our net transfer revenue this season was just over £10m added to half the parachute payment of £45m (half of which goes to DH) we will just about break even. |
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Post by artysid on Sept 21, 2019 9:45:19 GMT 1
Serious question? Serious Answer. Experience in a situation usually begats sound logic. Andrew Carnegie is the best example of this and he was not a town fan. Andrew Carnegie in his "Gospel of Wealth" letters stated that in 1889 he would earn only $50,000 a year, above this he works philanthropically. The income value in today's money is $900,000 / year. During the last 18 years of his life, he gave away $350 million (conservatively $65 billion in 2019 dollars, based on percentage of GDP) to charities, foundations, and universities – almost 90 percent of his fortune. The wealth is for family, heirs and philanthropy. The income threshold is the difference maker. It answers the question "at what point is enough, enough? I am in the corner of, "Well done Dean, Thank you and get your money out now, while it is there, with profit." UTT Dean Hoyle is a genuine philanthropist and a good egg in my book, but to compare him to Carnegie is quite ridiculous. My DATM avatar is a legacy of the generous Scottish American. Do you know why? Why would you expect him to know why? Probably best if you just tell us.  |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2019 9:47:37 GMT 1
Whilst the club flounders on the pitch? Yeah course it is mate. A clubs financial success is generated by what happens in the pitch simple as that. Really? Bury have just had a great season and got promoted, how are they doing financially? We all know why, it's been well documented. Shady owners. |
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Post by dugnet on Sept 21, 2019 10:03:08 GMT 1
The cash debate is interesting but let's be really frank, we've had a golden opportunity and we appear to have all but squandered it.
Money counts for a lot but having people who are wise and capable of getting the most from that cash is key. We have been run by good human beings but who have not necessarily been, and I think this is the phrase of choice, "at it". Or more accurately they've been "at it" making poor decisions.
You could make a case to say to DH, you are responsible for sanctioning the poor recruitment and the money spent. The real world doesn't work like that of course but it's not an unreasonable debate. Could we have spent all, at least a significant proportion of the outstanding debt more wisely?
I don't have a problem with DH taking his cash back, the argument I've laid out is interesting in football terms but less so in business ones. The fact is even if we were gifted cash by DH there is little evidence it would be used more efficiently.
Football is littered with clubs who make poor decisions about how to spend money. We've just learned the hard way. How PH and DW work with DC is absolutely key to getting us turned round.
I think we can more or less agree it's not been the best 2 years.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:07:24 GMT 1
The cash debate is interesting but let's be really frank, we've had a golden opportunity and we appear to have all but squandered it. Money counts for a lot but having people who are wise and capable of getting the most from that cash is key. We have been run by good human beings but who have not necessarily been, and I think this is the phrase of choice, "at it". Or more accurately they've been "at it" making poor decisions. You could make a case to say to DH, you are responsible for sanctioning the poor recruitment and the money spent. The real world doesn't work like that of course but it's not an unreasonable debate. Could we have spent all, at least a significant proportion of the outstanding debt more widely? I don't have a problem with DH taking his cash back, the argument I've laid out is interesting in football terms but less so in business ones. The fact is even if we were gifted cash by DH there is little evidence it would be used more efficiently. Football is littered with clubs who make poor decisions about how to spend money. We've just learned the hard way. How PH and DW work with DC is absolutely key to getting us turned round. I think we can more or less agree it's not been the best 2 years. your lastsentence is spot on.plus you are correct about PH DW AND THE COWLEYS. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:08:25 GMT 1
Another thread full of entitlement. It's really tedious & mind numbingly stupid IMO. If you lend money you are entitled to it back! If it's interest free then anytime on demand no question entitlement.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:26:27 GMT 1
With a £20m training ground, a 40% share in the ground from zilch, Stadium improvements to Premier League standards, and money in the bank. Infrastructure may be different?? Given that the 20 million training ground doesn't appear fit for purpose I wouldn't say it was a plus. Money in the bank is no good to a football club unless it spends it on squad strengthening. It will be fit for purpose when finished. Money in the bank means squad strengthening is possible. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2019 10:39:38 GMT 1
Given that the 20 million training ground doesn't appear fit for purpose I wouldn't say it was a plus. Money in the bank is no good to a football club unless it spends it on squad strengthening. It will be fit for purpose when finished. Money in the bank means squad strengthening is possible. Yes that's the thing, the squad strengthening has been questionable hasn't it? I have to wonder if anything will happen in January too. |
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Post by johnnyx on Sept 21, 2019 10:59:18 GMT 1
I think people seem to be split between dean being entitled to his money back and paying in some way for the mistakes made. I think I’ve got a solution. Give Dean £15 mill in cash plus Diakhaby Mbenza and Mounie.Sorted
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Post by malcolmbrown on Sept 21, 2019 11:06:38 GMT 1
Another thread full of entitlement. It's really tedious & mind numbingly stupid IMO. If you lend money you are entitled to it back! If it's interest free then anytime on demand no question entitlement. Only Town could get a sugar daddy who wants his money back now he's had his fun. You've got to laugh really. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 11:09:25 GMT 1
I think people seem to be split between dean being entitled to his money back and paying in some way for the mistakes made. I think I’ve got a solution. Give Dean £15 mill in cash plus Diakhaby Mbenza and Mounie.Sorted DH has devoted his time & his money for over ten years & you want to be smart arse about terms when he wants to reduce his commitment to 25%? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 11:14:57 GMT 1
Another thread full of entitlement. It's really tedious & mind numbingly stupid IMO. If you lend money you are entitled to it back! If it's interest free then anytime on demand no question entitlement. Only Town could get a sugar daddy who wants his money back now he's had his fun. You've got to laugh really. 'Sugar daddy', he was the fucking owner, chairman, supporter & provider of finance you ungrateful delusionist! |
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Post by stinkypete on Sept 21, 2019 11:51:02 GMT 1
Now the club can “afford it”, is Rubery also entitled to his money back that he wrote off or is he not allowed cos he’s not a Town fan?
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Post by htfcfcfc on Sept 21, 2019 13:26:01 GMT 1
I think people seem to be split between dean being entitled to his money back and paying in some way for the mistakes made. I think I’ve got a solution. Give Dean £15 mill in cash plus Diakhaby Mbenza and Mounie.Sorted DH has devoted his time & his money for over ten years & you want to be smart arse about terms when he wants to reduce his commitment to 25%? Get over yourself. I doubt anyone on here is truly ungrateful to DH and also begrudges him getting his money back. He’s certainly deserved most of the credit for helping us get to where we got to. But are you saying on a Huddersfield Town message board we’re supposed to just gloss over a case study in how to blows a huge chunk of the £180m which we’re unlikely to get the chance to compete for again in the near future. Maybe the club should operate under the same policy of “don’t mention the £180m” and not learn from their mistakes??! Fact is we all expected to come back down after season 1, if not season 2 so how on earth have we been so badly prepared for a return to the Championship. That’s not entitled. Thats not sulking. That’s common sense |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Sept 21, 2019 14:19:54 GMT 1
Only Town could get a sugar daddy who wants his money back now he's had his fun. You've got to laugh really. 'Sugar daddy', he was the fucking owner, chairman, supporter & provider of finance you ungrateful delusionist! You really need to calm down, you've been aggressive and unreasonable throughout this entire thread. Someone disagrees with you, it happens, get over it. People are entitled to express their views on a public forum without getting abused by you. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 21, 2019 14:30:42 GMT 1
'Sugar daddy', he was the fucking owner, chairman, supporter & provider of finance you ungrateful delusionist! You really need to calm down, you've been aggressive and unreasonable throughout this entire thread. Someone disagrees with you, it happens, get over it. People are entitled to express their views on a public forum without getting abused by you. Whilst possessing the social skills of an Amoeba, I do think he kind of has a point here |
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Post by Macduff on Sept 21, 2019 14:34:00 GMT 1
Yes it's a public forum, so if people feel the need to insult our current or previous chairman others are quite entitled to label those posters as fuckwits, as it is indeed a public forum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 14:41:52 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle is a genuine philanthropist and a good egg in my book, but to compare him to Carnegie is quite ridiculous. My DATM avatar is a legacy of the generous Scottish American. Do you know why? Why would you expect him to know why? Probably best if you just tell us. Haha... I was fishing to see if the poster really knew anything about Andrew Carnegie or just quoting fancy numbers from a book. The link is the US Steel logo adopted by the Pittsburgh Steelers due to the corporation's headquarters and a large amount of its production being based in the city. It was Carnegie's sale of his own steel company to JP Morgan who in turn formed US Steel that made the Scottish born industrialist the richest man in the world at that time. |
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Post by Mecha Corte on Sept 21, 2019 15:34:12 GMT 1
Another thread full of entitlement. It's really tedious & mind numbingly stupid IMO. If you lend money you are entitled to it back! If it's interest free then anytime on demand no question entitlement. I agree with you, the problem is it was assumed by the majority that the tens of £millions that Dean invested into HTFC were in fact gifted, in the same way as Jack Walker had done for Blackburn - it was a reasonable assumption to make, he was a proper fan, he had the financial clout to do so, indeed he said on more than one occasion he didn't expect to get it back, had we not made the PL he still wouldn't be able to, would he ? I personally don't have an "issue" with Dean getting his money back, not that it would make a difference if I did, but it seems a shame that having put all that money in, while never realistically expecting to get it back, that he has decided to reclaim it with all the implications and problems it has for the club. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 15:55:55 GMT 1
Another thread full of entitlement. It's really tedious & mind numbingly stupid IMO. If you lend money you are entitled to it back! If it's interest free then anytime on demand no question entitlement. I agree with you, the problem is it was assumed by the majority that the tens of £millions that Dean invested into HTFC were in fact gifted, in the same way as Jack Walker had done for Blackburn - it was a reasonable assumption to make, he was a proper fan, he had the financial clout to do so, indeed he said on more than one occasion he didn't expect to get it back, had we not made the PL he still wouldn't be able to, would he ? I personally don't have an "issue" with Dean getting his money back, not that it would make a difference if I did, but it seems a shame that having put all that money in, while never realistically expecting to get it back, that he has decided to reclaim it with all the implications and problems it has for the club. The key word that the cry babies seem to ignore is he didn’t “expect” to get his money back. If we hadn’t been promoted, the club wouldn’t have hundreds of millions of slosh thrown at it and Dean selling up would likely see that debt remain with the club. We got promoted, his expectations changed. What I expect is if Dean hadn’t sold the club, he’d still now be expecting to recoup some or all of his loans whilst that money is not needed on an ongoing basis. (And then possibly dripfeed more back in in subsequent years). As it stands, the club debt is apparently being reduced, what’s not to like? |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Sept 21, 2019 15:59:05 GMT 1
I wouldn’t trust our transfer committee to organise a piss up in a brewery so more than happy for the last of the PL windfall money to go in to the training ground
At least the club sees some benefit rather than the money being transferred Montpellier (or similar), an agent and a bog standard player getting a multi million contract worth way beyond their talent/ market value
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