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Post by detox on Feb 28, 2020 12:16:47 GMT 1
I don't think it helped that most fans thought Dean had 'given' the money to the club, and at that time certainly wasn't saying it was just a loan...indeed I seem to recall him saying he didn't expect the money back.. this was Dean, giving up some of his wealth because he was a town fan, a very rich town fan, and could afford to spend millions on our club.. Having said that, had we stayed in the PL for several years, and making millions profit I don't think anyone would have moaned had Dean been taking back a few million each year pay himself back. Also, in deciding to sell the club many probably thought he'd get his cash back then from some billiomaire new owners, and we'd all be ok about that too. So I don't think it's so much the fact he is getting his cash back, as the manner and circumstances of it that seems to have rattled a few cages. I do understand the cash was shown in the town accounts as loans, obviously this is how it's done to comply with various regs. No, I think the circumstances of our relegation, the total spaffing away of £40m+ on players who to be blunt, were useless ..the dismal legacy of us being in another relegation fight and, not least, the fact he gave the club away to a mate who it is alleged has no real money of his own , in a deal that was contrived in such a way as to ensure the loans were repaid out of the profits from our PL venture. Of course it's the club that owes the money to Dean, and had Dean stayed on he could quite easily have sanctioned the loan repayments himself, but he didn't..he brought Phil in to do that as part of a deal that saw no cash injection into the club in any form, and no 'apparent' price paid for the 75% of the shareholding.It 'feels like' a bit of a crafty back handed way of doing things. I'm not arguing over the merits or not of Dean being entitled to his loans being repaid, it's more how it was done or should I say how it appears to have been done. maybe we'll know more when the accounts come out, but at the moment we see what was a PL team last year in a massive scrap to avoid dropping to the 3rd tier and it's galling for all of us. Nail on head. We had the unbelievable highs of promotion, beating Man U, the club on the world stage, stuff we'd all dreamed of for years but sadly the real legacy of the PL, ie three years of parachute money, seems to have evaporated. That part is a huge part of the pull of the PL, ie as a club like Town you know relegation is likely but you also know your club is going to be propelled into the big hitters in the championship for a few years to come and has the potential to become established; a la Burnley, and improve its status for years to come. The deal seems to have removed all of that potential (and a huge part of the benefit of promotion) and we are where we are facing consecutive relegations. I suspect the plan is perhaps to pay off loans early and then really have another go in years two and three but its not exactly going well at the moment and we're a bit of bad luck away from ending up back in league one. The plan was also to start this season with Siewart in charge and with a 4th division right back and midfielder and a non league winger. I think we're all hoping the planning has improved somewhat. To be honest I find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't be a little bit pissed off about the way things have turned out. Its not just the financial aspects either or the way the deal was done, seems the club well and truly lost the plot post Chelsea and the decision making has been utterly baffling at times. I do think though that if we can survive and keep the managers on board we'll finally turn the corner. We're all hoping we can stay up,but this summer is going to need a lot of work. Our expensive dead beats will likely be back from their loans and back on our payroll..so that still has to be sorted. Our loanees we're relying on at the moment will return to their clubs, so that basically leaves us as we were at the start of this season. There's a massive amount to be done, all we've done so far is to defer the decisions until summer. We've made an absolute arsehole of things tbh. |
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Post by detox on Feb 28, 2020 12:25:02 GMT 1
In 2009 DH made the decision to put money into the club to sign players that would see us have a chance in getting out of League 1. For the next few years he continued in that vein, through until we had two promotions. It is a fair question to ask if , having made the choice to increase wages and transfer fees from taking over as chairman, that he should stand the cost of his own decision. It IS his money and it WAS a loan so he has the right to take back his loan. I just worry that, having been lauded as the Chairman that took us into the Premier League through his leadership, he may be remembered by some as the former Chairman that took us back down. FWIW I don't think that but many will, sadly. I don't entirely agree, I think Dean will always been seen in a positive way for what he did getting us to the PL. The biggest beef most fans have is who on earth authorised spaffing away £40m+ on such crap players..a decision which saw us relegated by a mile form the PL, saddle us with hefty salaries and unable to offload only by loan deals. and sees us struggling financially and with another relegation quite possible. Whether repaying Dean has affected us in such a way that has denied us buying 4 or 5 quality players that 'may' have seen us pushing for the play offs this season, who knows, but the real problem was in summer 2018. Dean's legacy will be a good one with most fans, he gave us something we never thought possible. |
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Post by dewsburyterrier on Feb 28, 2020 12:55:08 GMT 1
In 2009 DH made the decision to put money into the club to sign players that would see us have a chance in getting out of League 1. For the next few years he continued in that vein, through until we had two promotions. It is a fair question to ask if , having made the choice to increase wages and transfer fees from taking over as chairman, that he should stand the cost of his own decision. It IS his money and it WAS a loan so he has the right to take back his loan. I just worry that, having been lauded as the Chairman that took us into the Premier League through his leadership, he may be remembered by some as the former Chairman that took us back down. FWIW I don't think that but many will, sadly. I don't entirely agree, I think Dean will always been seen in a positive way for what he did getting us to the PL. The biggest beef most fans have is who on earth authorised spaffing away £40m+ on such crap players..a decision which saw us relegated by a mile form the PL, saddle us with hefty salaries and unable to offload only by loan deals. and sees us struggling financially and with another relegation quite possible. Whether repaying Dean has affected us in such a way that has denied us buying 4 or 5 quality players that 'may' have seen us pushing for the play offs this season, who knows, but the real problem was in summer 2018. Dean's legacy will be a good one with most fans, he gave us something we never thought possible. I agree that the vast majority will remember his time as positive, it is just that I hear talk from some that suggests that this loan repayment has tainted the good times a little. |
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Post by detox on Feb 28, 2020 14:01:12 GMT 1
I don't entirely agree, I think Dean will always been seen in a positive way for what he did getting us to the PL. The biggest beef most fans have is who on earth authorised spaffing away £40m+ on such crap players..a decision which saw us relegated by a mile form the PL, saddle us with hefty salaries and unable to offload only by loan deals. and sees us struggling financially and with another relegation quite possible. Whether repaying Dean has affected us in such a way that has denied us buying 4 or 5 quality players that 'may' have seen us pushing for the play offs this season, who knows, but the real problem was in summer 2018. Dean's legacy will be a good one with most fans, he gave us something we never thought possible. I agree that the vast majority will remember his time as positive, it is just that I hear talk from some that suggests that this loan repayment has tainted the good times a little. yes I can hear the voices, and tbh there are questions to be answered about the club sale and the repayment of debt, but for me that doesn't detract from what he achieved with us and never will. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 28, 2020 15:19:51 GMT 1
In 2009 DH made the decision to put money into the club to sign players that would see us have a chance in getting out of League 1. For the next few years he continued in that vein, through until we had two promotions. It is a fair question to ask if , having made the choice to increase wages and transfer fees from taking over as chairman, that he should stand the cost of his own decision. It IS his money and it WAS a loan so he has the right to take back his loan. I just worry that, having been lauded as the Chairman that took us into the Premier League through his leadership, he may be remembered by some as the former Chairman that took us back down. FWIW I don't think that but many will, sadly. I don't entirely agree, I think Dean will always been seen in a positive way for what he did getting us to the PL. The biggest beef most fans have is who on earth authorised spaffing away £40m+ on such crap players..a decision which saw us relegated by a mile form the PL, saddle us with hefty salaries and unable to offload only by loan deals. and sees us struggling financially and with another relegation quite possible. Whether repaying Dean has affected us in such a way that has denied us buying 4 or 5 quality players that 'may' have seen us pushing for the play offs this season, who knows, but the real problem was in summer 2018. Dean's legacy will be a good one with most fans, he gave us something we never thought possible. Dean Hoyle authorised the money ( worth saying no one on here was complaining or questioning that money being spent at the time either from memory and many were expecting more still ) but the actual choice of player will have been down to Wagner, assisted by Rebbe. I doubt Dean Hoyle got involved in who we sign at all.. its not the owners job. In hindsight Rebbe was obviously a disastrous appointment so that falls on Hoyle, but even there it was possibly wagner who chose him as the man hed like to work with. It was that summer window of 2018 that killed us and to a large extent is still killing us now. Repaying DH whatever money hes being repayed, over whatever timescale and under whatever terms ( because no one on here knows any of that ) is obviously going to be a hindrance to some degree, but regardless we still went into this current campaign with one of the most expensively assembled squads in the division and one of the highest paid.... How this season has gone is not down to lack of investment, its a direct result of that appalling 2018 summer window and the financial burden we're carrying from it with practically zero benefit on the actual pitch in return. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 28, 2020 16:40:28 GMT 1
I don't entirely agree, I think Dean will always been seen in a positive way for what he did getting us to the PL. The biggest beef most fans have is who on earth authorised spaffing away £40m+ on such crap players..a decision which saw us relegated by a mile form the PL, saddle us with hefty salaries and unable to offload only by loan deals. and sees us struggling financially and with another relegation quite possible. Whether repaying Dean has affected us in such a way that has denied us buying 4 or 5 quality players that 'may' have seen us pushing for the play offs this season, who knows, but the real problem was in summer 2018. Dean's legacy will be a good one with most fans, he gave us something we never thought possible. Dean Hoyle authorised the money ( worth saying no one on here was complaining or questioning that money being spent at the time either from memory and many were expecting more still ) but the actual choice of player will have been down to Wagner, assisted by Rebbe. I doubt Dean Hoyle got involved in who we sign at all.. its not the owners job. In hindsight Rebbe was obviously a disastrous appointment so that falls on Hoyle, but even there it was possibly wagner who chose him as the man hed like to work with. It was that summer window of 2018 that killed us and to a large extent is still killing us now. Repaying DH whatever money hes being repayed, over whatever timescale and under whatever terms ( because no one on here knows any of that ) is obviously going to be a hindrance to some degree, but regardless we still went into this current campaign with one of the most expensively assembled squads in the division and one of the highest paid.... How this season has gone is not down to lack of investment, its a direct result of that appalling 2018 summer window and the financial burden we're carrying from it with practically zero benefit on the actual pitch in return. I am with you to a degree in your general commentary, but DH's appointments and strategy towards recruitment is arguably the largest reason behind the poor transfer windows. Wagner was left selecting from a shit list. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 28, 2020 17:28:47 GMT 1
Quite possible, without knowing the list of course.
Wagner did very well picking and choosing from the £0.5m to £2m market..largely players in and around the German 2nd tier who'd impressed him.
When the budget rose into the £5m to £20m market he was perhaps a little out of his depth and his lack of experience told.
Thats where Rebbe should have come to the fore, but clearly that appointment was a total failure.
Ultimately the man at the top carries responsibility I suppose if a scapegoat needs to be found to 'blame', but that isn't always fair, particularly in football which is anything but an exact science.
Promotion caught us cold as a club it was that unexpected and we were on a very steep learning curve. One bad appointment in Rebbe was enough to see us get mugged off really when compounded by having a very inexperienced manager aswell.
But none of that effects Hoyles right to his money if thats what he wants or whether he 'deserves' it. And it really shouldn;t effect how fans regard him after the incredible journey he and his money took us on.
He owes us nothing. The debt is very much from us to him IMO.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 28, 2020 19:24:46 GMT 1
We are only talking about this because the way the takeover has been done.
In a normal takeover i dont think it would be unreasonable to suggest that the buyer of the club pays the going rate for the club and that includes paying off the debts.
Its the almost shifty way things have been done with how the deal has been done with no transparency and the net result of leaving us in a disadvantaged position that is the problem, right at a time when we needed the cushion of those parachute payments.
Should DH have his money back despite never calling his input a loan? ... yes hes entitled and deserving of it but not in a way that effectively gambles with our status in the division.
I have heard many times how we didnt want a rich powerful foreign investor both from the club and some fans. I would have to ask given whats happened isnt that a mistake? The deal thats been cooked up may suit PH and DH it clearly wasnt the best deal for Huddersfield Town F.C. or its fans.
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 28, 2020 19:49:37 GMT 1
Quite possible, without knowing the list of course. Wagner did very well picking and choosing from the £0.5m to £2m market..largely players in and around the German 2nd tier who'd impressed him. When the budget rose into the £5m to £20m market he was perhaps a little out of his depth and his lack of experience told. Thats where Rebbe should have come to the fore, but clearly that appointment was a total failure. Ultimately the man at the top carries responsibility I suppose if a scapegoat needs to be found to 'blame', but that isn't always fair, particularly in football which is anything but an exact science. Promotion caught us cold as a club it was that unexpected and we were on a very steep learning curve. One bad appointment in Rebbe was enough to see us get mugged off really when compounded by having a very inexperienced manager aswell. But none of that effects Hoyles right to his money if thats what he wants or whether he 'deserves' it. And it really shouldn;t effect how fans regard him after the incredible journey he and his money took us on. He owes us nothing. The debt is very much from us to him IMO. Rebbe was only appointed on 19th May 2018. Holding him responsible for that window when planning would have been well advanced for either divisional scenario is harsh at best. It’s been said by knowledgeable folks on here that he was only responsible for Bacuna. The real reasons for that shite window is NOT having a DOF for 8 months prior to that, having the scouting reach of a top end league 1 club then going shopping blind, but most importantly our refusal/inability to move onwards towards a proper premier league wage budget. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 28, 2020 20:34:04 GMT 1
Quite possible, without knowing the list of course. Wagner did very well picking and choosing from the £0.5m to £2m market..largely players in and around the German 2nd tier who'd impressed him. When the budget rose into the £5m to £20m market he was perhaps a little out of his depth and his lack of experience told. Thats where Rebbe should have come to the fore, but clearly that appointment was a total failure. Ultimately the man at the top carries responsibility I suppose if a scapegoat needs to be found to 'blame', but that isn't always fair, particularly in football which is anything but an exact science. Promotion caught us cold as a club it was that unexpected and we were on a very steep learning curve. One bad appointment in Rebbe was enough to see us get mugged off really when compounded by having a very inexperienced manager aswell. But none of that effects Hoyles right to his money if thats what he wants or whether he 'deserves' it. And it really shouldn;t effect how fans regard him after the incredible journey he and his money took us on. He owes us nothing. The debt is very much from us to him IMO. Rebbe was only appointed on 19th May 2018. Holding him responsible for that window when planning would have been well advanced for either divisional scenario is harsh at best. It’s been said by knowledgeable folks on here that he was only responsible for Bacuna. The real reasons for that shite window is NOT having a DOF for 8 months prior to that, having the scouting reach of a top end league 1 club then going shopping blind, but most importantly our refusal/inability to move onwards towards a proper premier league wage budget. I agree about the lack of a DOF for so long prior to Rebbe and I don;t know which signings he was directly accountable for. Id find it hard to believe once in the role he didn;t do due diligence on the signings we did make and approve them ( because that was his job ) , whether he first came up with the names or not. Either way he can;t have had the contacts or pulling power that Town were expecting from him. I don;t know what you mean by us not having a proper premier league wage budget. How do you know what players were paid? And we appear to have used up all our available money doing it. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 28, 2020 20:50:18 GMT 1
We are only talking about this because the way the takeover has been done. In a normal takeover i dont think it would be unreasonable to suggest that the buyer of the club pays the going rate for the club and that includes paying off the debts. Its the almost shifty way things have been done with how the deal has been done with no transparency and the net result of leaving us in a disadvantaged position that is the problem, right at a time when we needed the cushion of those parachute payments. Should DH have his money back despite never calling his input a loan? ... yes hes entitled and deserving of it but not in a way that effectively gambles with our status in the division. I have heard many times how we didnt want a rich powerful foreign investor both from the club and some fans. I would have to ask given whats happened isnt that a mistake? The deal thats been cooked up may suit PH and DH it clearly wasnt the best deal for Huddersfield Town F.C. or its fans. That depends on the foreign investor. Were there any interested? Can't sell to one if there aren;t any to sell to. Were they any good? Blackburn landed theirs, Bradford, Charlton etc.. their fans don;t seem that thrilled with their rich foreign investors. Better for the fans? Might be, might not be, but Id bet my bottom dollar the first thing any foreign investor would do would be to question why our fans pay half what all the fans of other clubs pay for the season tickets. The reaction on here would be interesting to say the least when season cards are suddenly £500 next season. Even if DH took back every single quid hes put into the club ( and again no one knows any of the details of this at all- its all pure uninformed guesswork and assumption ) he'd still have made no money at all. As far as investments go it would be regarded as a total disaster by any and all his financial advisors who would point out he could have made many millions just with a simple low risk investment of that money elsewhere. A foreign investor is just that.. an investor. Theyre in it to take out of the club more money than they put into it.. a lot more ideally from their point of view. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 28, 2020 20:58:17 GMT 1
Rebbe was only appointed on 19th May 2018. Holding him responsible for that window when planning would have been well advanced for either divisional scenario is harsh at best. It’s been said by knowledgeable folks on here that he was only responsible for Bacuna. The real reasons for that shite window is NOT having a DOF for 8 months prior to that, having the scouting reach of a top end league 1 club then going shopping blind, but most importantly our refusal/inability to move onwards towards a proper premier league wage budget. I agree about the lack of a DOF for so long prior to Rebbe and I don;t know which signings he was directly accountable for. Id find it hard to believe once in the role he didn;t do due diligence on the signings we did make and approve them ( because that was his job ) , whether he first came up with the names or not. Either way he can;t have had the contacts or pulling power that Town were expecting from him. I don;t know what you mean by us not having a proper premier league wage budget. How do you know what players were paid? And we appear to have used up all our available money doing it. From the accounts? This is for 17/18. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-cityWe made a pre tax profit of £30m in season 1, supposedly then allocated to the training ground, fair enough a solid cause. All from a wage bill of £63m - which includes heavy survival bonuses, like how our wage budget in 16/17 went from £12m to £22m in the accounts because of promotions bonuses. The wage bill in 17/18 was likely similar, without the bonuses, so £63m again. Brighton’s was £78m and likely increased massively for 18/19, but they are billionaire fan owned. But our nearest comparable is Burnley. Owner by local businessman, similar income etc etc yet a wage bill of £82m. We were 25% under the rest of the league. That had a massive bearing on who we could sign. You can only perform so many miracles. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 28, 2020 21:02:32 GMT 1
Im pretty sure our players will have got bonuses for not being relegated. And with a raft of multi million pound signings, Im pretty sure our wage bill will have gone up too.
You can only spend what you have to spend.
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 28, 2020 21:09:36 GMT 1
Im pretty sure our players will have got bonuses for not being relegated. And with a raft of multi million pound signings, Im pretty sure our wage bill will have gone up too. You can only spend what you have to spend. So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Feb 28, 2020 21:41:35 GMT 1
Im pretty sure our players will have got bonuses for not being relegated. And with a raft of multi million pound signings, Im pretty sure our wage bill will have gone up too. You can only spend what you have to spend. So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? For a start. Burnley went up and came straight back down with a very similar squad, they then got promoted again with the majority of their parachute payments unspent in transfer fee terms and had two years of premier league money start on us. So, no we couldn't compete with a team like Burnley. Brighton LOST £30M the year they stayed up. Watford OWE £80M in transfer fees. West Ham & Aston Villa far bigger than us, both struggling. DH promised to fund the club though his own money as loans that he did not EXPECT to get back to get us in to the championship until he could make us self financing. Id say that he made good on his promise and more. |
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 28, 2020 21:45:23 GMT 1
We are only talking about this because the way the takeover has been done. In a normal takeover i dont think it would be unreasonable to suggest that the buyer of the club pays the going rate for the club and that includes paying off the debts. Its the almost shifty way things have been done with how the deal has been done with no transparency and the net result of leaving us in a disadvantaged position that is the problem, right at a time when we needed the cushion of those parachute payments. Should DH have his money back despite never calling his input a loan? ... yes hes entitled and deserving of it but not in a way that effectively gambles with our status in the division. I have heard many times how we didnt want a rich powerful foreign investor both from the club and some fans. I would have to ask given whats happened isnt that a mistake? The deal thats been cooked up may suit PH and DH it clearly wasnt the best deal for Huddersfield Town F.C. or its fans. That depends on the foreign investor. Were there any interested? Can't sell to one if there aren;t any to sell to. Were they any good? Blackburn landed theirs, Bradford, Charlton etc.. their fans don;t seem that thrilled with their rich foreign investors. Better for the fans? Might be, might not be, but Id bet my bottom dollar the first thing any foreign investor would do would be to question why our fans pay half what all the fans of other clubs pay for the season tickets. The reaction on here would be interesting to say the least when season cards are suddenly £500 next season. Even if DH took back every single quid hes put into the club ( and again no one knows any of the details of this at all- its all pure uninformed guesswork and assumption ) he'd still have made no money at all. As far as investments go it would be regarded as a total disaster by any and all his financial advisors who would point out he could have made many millions just with a simple low risk investment of that money elsewhere. A foreign investor is just that.. an investor. Theyre in it to take out of the club more money than they put into it.. a lot more ideally from their point of view. Sure you make a valid point ....there have been some bad owners both foreign and domestic ,but there have been some brilliant ones too ,who have totally transformed clubs. What you are defending is living in Fear and this collective of smallmindedness (and im sorry i cant find a kinder adjective) that seems to encapsulate the club. Take the current strap line "Working class club" 2 mins since we were "The Yorkshire Club" but now we are skint i suppose the cap fits. Captain as far as im aware DH has retained a 25% share in the club and does he still own canalside or just 25% of it ? Wont his 25% entitle him to a pro rata share on future income/profit ? |
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 28, 2020 21:48:52 GMT 1
So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? For a start. Burnley went up and came straight back down with a very similar squad, they then got promoted again with the majority of their parachute payments unspent in transfer fee terms and had two years of premier league money start on us. So, no we couldn't compete with a team like Burnley. Brighton LOST £30M the year they stayed up. Watford OWE £80M in transfer fees. West Ham & Aston Villa far bigger than us, both struggling. DH promised to fund the club though his own money as loans that he did not EXPECT to get back to get us in to the championship until he could make us self financing. Id say that he made good on his promise and more. Burnley came down and spent £11m on Andre Grey. Anyway I’m out. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 29, 2020 0:12:52 GMT 1
That depends on the foreign investor. Were there any interested? Can't sell to one if there aren;t any to sell to. Were they any good? Blackburn landed theirs, Bradford, Charlton etc.. their fans don;t seem that thrilled with their rich foreign investors. Better for the fans? Might be, might not be, but Id bet my bottom dollar the first thing any foreign investor would do would be to question why our fans pay half what all the fans of other clubs pay for the season tickets. The reaction on here would be interesting to say the least when season cards are suddenly £500 next season. Even if DH took back every single quid hes put into the club ( and again no one knows any of the details of this at all- its all pure uninformed guesswork and assumption ) he'd still have made no money at all. As far as investments go it would be regarded as a total disaster by any and all his financial advisors who would point out he could have made many millions just with a simple low risk investment of that money elsewhere. A foreign investor is just that.. an investor. Theyre in it to take out of the club more money than they put into it.. a lot more ideally from their point of view. Sure you make a valid point ....there have been some bad owners both foreign and domestic ,but there have been some brilliant ones too ,who have totally transformed clubs. What you are defending is living in Fear and this collective of smallmindedness (and im sorry i cant find a kinder adjective) that seems to encapsulate the club. Take the current strap line "Working class club" 2 mins since we were "The Yorkshire Club" but now we are skint i suppose the cap fits. Captain as far as im aware DH has retained a 25% share in the club and does he still own canalside or just 25% of it ? Wont his 25% entitle him to a pro rata share on future income/profit ? Well Im certainly with you on the working class, Yorkshire club bollocks. Meaningless marketing nonsense. Smallmindedness? I think thats harsh. Its not like we didn;t spend any money once we went up. We spend a boat load, just not very well. And criticism of not selling to a rich foreign investor seems equally harsh when there is no knowledge that one even existed. Dean has apparently retained 25% of the club, or will at the end of the sale, but I ,and I imagine no one else on here, has any knowledge of the details of that. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 29, 2020 1:03:41 GMT 1
Im pretty sure our players will have got bonuses for not being relegated. And with a raft of multi million pound signings, Im pretty sure our wage bill will have gone up too. You can only spend what you have to spend. So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? Well in terms of wages apparently not. We spent on wages what we could spend on wages But in terms of transfer fees.... Towns net spend on transfer fees in 2018/19 was £34,530,000 More than.. Man City !!, also Spurs, BURNLEY ( by £12m ) , Leicester, Newcastle, Palace, Watford and Southampton. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2018The previous season our net spend on transfer fees was £45,270,000 More than.. Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton, Bournemouth, West Ham, Leicester, Stoke, Palace, Swansea, BURNLEY ( by £57m !! ) and Newcastle. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2017So we were actually a pretty middling prem club in terms of expenditure in the transfer market, if 'matching other clubs' is what you want to criticise Town for, and outspent several clubs that are much bigger then us. And as for Burnley, we spent nearly £70m net more than them during our 2 years in the prem!!! Yet youre making out it wasn't possible to match them?? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 29, 2020 1:48:59 GMT 1
The only way we could have matched what Burnley spent was to spend about £20m a season less!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 2:04:00 GMT 1
The wheels were always going to fall off somewhere as we were built on a ‘speculate to accumulate’ business plan. It was our only option.
Pick a transfer, any transfer and it could have ended the cycle. We had a great run of Rhodes, Pilks, Clayton, Hunt, Butterfield, Lynch & Smithies. Each let us ratchet up the squad value for the wonder of Wagner.
Think of it as double or quits: if anyone had bombed we wouldn’t have been in the situation we found ourselves in...braced for a 2nd season in the big time. If you’re gonna have a pop about our transfer business in 2018, at least have the grace to contextualise it with that from 2008 because without that, the latter would never have been a possibility.
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 29, 2020 9:07:56 GMT 1
So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? Well in terms of wages apparently not. We spent on wages what we could spend on wages But in terms of transfer fees.... Towns net spend on transfer fees in 2018/19 was £34,530,000 More than.. Man City !!, also Spurs, BURNLEY ( by £12m ) , Leicester, Newcastle, Palace, Watford and Southampton. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2018The previous season our net spend on transfer fees was £45,270,000 More than.. Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton, Bournemouth, West Ham, Leicester, Stoke, Palace, Swansea, BURNLEY ( by £57m !! ) and Newcastle. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2017So we were actually a pretty middling prem club in terms of expenditure in the transfer market, if 'matching other clubs' is what you want to criticise Town for, and outspent several clubs that are much bigger then us. And as for Burnley, we spent nearly £70m net more than them during our 2 years in the prem!!! Yet youre making out it wasn't possible to match them?? Well for a start transfermarkt is guessing at fees...it doesn’t even put a figure on the Mallone sale so that’s circa £5m missed. I CBA to look over the rest as this is pointless anyway. Wage bills dictate the quality of player you can attract but we won’t agree. You haven’t shifted stance on a topic in about 15 years 😄 For clarification my point was never that we had a load of money left over like some or that we somehow missed another magic £200m prize for winning the play off final like others. More that the wage bill was crap and we did things arse about tit. As for sapphire calling me a WUM, good one dickhead. |
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Post by sapphireblue on Feb 29, 2020 9:25:47 GMT 1
As for sapphire calling me a WUM Sorry about that. I should learn not to post after a Friday out. (my ridulous post now deleted) |
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 29, 2020 9:27:39 GMT 1
As for sapphire calling me a WUM Sorry about that. I should learn not to post after a Friday out. Xx |
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Post by detox on Feb 29, 2020 9:33:59 GMT 1
Quite possible, without knowing the list of course. Wagner did very well picking and choosing from the £0.5m to £2m market..largely players in and around the German 2nd tier who'd impressed him. When the budget rose into the £5m to £20m market he was perhaps a little out of his depth and his lack of experience told. Thats where Rebbe should have come to the fore, but clearly that appointment was a total failure. Ultimately the man at the top carries responsibility I suppose if a scapegoat needs to be found to 'blame', but that isn't always fair, particularly in football which is anything but an exact science. Promotion caught us cold as a club it was that unexpected and we were on a very steep learning curve. One bad appointment in Rebbe was enough to see us get mugged off really when compounded by having a very inexperienced manager aswell. But none of that effects Hoyles right to his money if thats what he wants or whether he 'deserves' it. And it really shouldn;t effect how fans regard him after the incredible journey he and his money took us on. He owes us nothing. The debt is very much from us to him IMO. Rebbe was only appointed on 19th May 2018. Holding him responsible for that window when planning would have been well advanced for either divisional scenario is harsh at best. It’s been said by knowledgeable folks on here that he was only responsible for Bacuna. The real reasons for that shite window is NOT having a DOF for 8 months prior to that, having the scouting reach of a top end league 1 club then going shopping blind, but most importantly our refusal/inability to move onwards towards a proper premier league wage budget. Rebbe may have only started on 19th May 2018, but you can't tell me he didn't rubber stamp the £11m Mbenze transfer in August 2018, and the £9m Diakhaby transfer in July 2018..and even the idea of spending £18m on Kongolo in July 2018. He was in the seat at the time these deals were signed off. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 29, 2020 10:37:34 GMT 1
Well in terms of wages apparently not. We spent on wages what we could spend on wages But in terms of transfer fees.... Towns net spend on transfer fees in 2018/19 was £34,530,000 More than.. Man City !!, also Spurs, BURNLEY ( by £12m ) , Leicester, Newcastle, Palace, Watford and Southampton. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2018The previous season our net spend on transfer fees was £45,270,000 More than.. Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton, Bournemouth, West Ham, Leicester, Stoke, Palace, Swansea, BURNLEY ( by £57m !! ) and Newcastle. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2017So we were actually a pretty middling prem club in terms of expenditure in the transfer market, if 'matching other clubs' is what you want to criticise Town for, and outspent several clubs that are much bigger then us. And as for Burnley, we spent nearly £70m net more than them during our 2 years in the prem!!! Yet youre making out it wasn't possible to match them?? Well for a start transfermarkt is guessing at fees...it doesn’t even put a figure on the Mallone sale so that’s circa £5m missed. I CBA to look over the rest as this is pointless anyway. Wage bills dictate the quality of player you can attract but we won’t agree. You haven’t shifted stance on a topic in about 15 years 😄 For clarification my point was never that we had a load of money left over like some or that we somehow missed another magic £200m prize for winning the play off final like others. More that the wage bill was crap and we did things arse about tit. As for sapphire calling me a WUM, good one dickhead. The prices given on there seem pretty accurate to me based on the information we have in todays 'undisclosed' era. Hadn;t noticed Malone but the fact they didn;t just guess at his sale price suggests they like to be pretty accurate. Its a bit rich to use the 'theyre guessing' argument when EVERYTHING in this attack on DH's sale of the club is a total guess! Wages do effect the quality of player you can get and these big signings will have got premier division money to come here.. but so do transfer fees... Massively so unless you're going for players that are out of contract. You can;t hammer us for one whilst totally ignoring the other. We had probably the smallest income in the premier division yet were no where near the lowest when it came to spending on your playing squad. Not even close to it. |
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Post by royrace on Feb 29, 2020 12:44:30 GMT 1
That depends on the foreign investor. Were there any interested? Can't sell to one if there aren;t any to sell to. Were they any good? Blackburn landed theirs, Bradford, Charlton etc.. their fans don;t seem that thrilled with their rich foreign investors. Better for the fans? Might be, might not be, but Id bet my bottom dollar the first thing any foreign investor would do would be to question why our fans pay half what all the fans of other clubs pay for the season tickets. The reaction on here would be interesting to say the least when season cards are suddenly £500 next season. Even if DH took back every single quid hes put into the club ( and again no one knows any of the details of this at all- its all pure uninformed guesswork and assumption ) he'd still have made no money at all. As far as investments go it would be regarded as a total disaster by any and all his financial advisors who would point out he could have made many millions just with a simple low risk investment of that money elsewhere. A foreign investor is just that.. an investor. Theyre in it to take out of the club more money than they put into it.. a lot more ideally from their point of view. Sure you make a valid point ....there have been some bad owners both foreign and domestic ,but there have been some brilliant ones too ,who have totally transformed clubs. What you are defending is living in Fear and this collective of smallmindedness (and im sorry i cant find a kinder adjective) that seems to encapsulate the club. Take the current strap line " Working class club" 2 mins since we were "The Yorkshire Club" but now we are skint i suppose the cap fits. Captain as far as im aware DH has retained a 25% share in the club and does he still own canalside or just 25% of it ? Wont his 25% entitle him to a pro rata share on future income/profit ? "Working Class Club",  is that even supposed to mean, honestly, what a patronising load of nonsense. Another daft decision along similar lines as putting a cartoon dog on the shirt at a time when the club was getting world wide exposure whilst leaving the tiny messy  on the telly for all to see. Makes you wonder what they were smoking down at the John Smiths that summer. Both dumb ideas but at least those ones didn't cost £50M. |
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Post by royrace on Feb 29, 2020 12:51:03 GMT 1
Rebbe was only appointed on 19th May 2018. Holding him responsible for that window when planning would have been well advanced for either divisional scenario is harsh at best. It’s been said by knowledgeable folks on here that he was only responsible for Bacuna. The real reasons for that shite window is NOT having a DOF for 8 months prior to that, having the scouting reach of a top end league 1 club then going shopping blind, but most importantly our refusal/inability to move onwards towards a proper premier league wage budget. Rebbe may have only started on 19th May 2018, but you can't tell me he didn't rubber stamp the £11m Mbenze transfer in August 2018, and the £9m Diakhaby transfer in July 2018..and even the idea of spending £18m on Kongolo in July 2018. He was in the seat at the time these deals were signed off. Rebbe came from Wolfsburg where he was sacked for buying a load of sub standard players for over inflated prices leaving them in the relegation zone, he continued that fine work at Town. I struggle to believe that whilst masterminding PL survival Wagner was out and about scouting players and doing due diligence, wasn't his job. Ultimately the buck stops at the man at the top, it's an absolute disgrace that tens of millions were flushed down the drain and it should never have been allowed to happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 13:07:09 GMT 1
They once were lost
But now they see
#Blindmasses
I see a few more people have opened their eyes to the sale of our club to Deans mate that hamstrung us, gave dean all his money back, allowing his mate to "buy " the club for free; when clearly not having the funds to truely fund a championship side. I could walk into HTAFC tomorrow and buy the club with our parachute payments. I can give us a transfer budget based on sell EPL players and not putting in my own cash!
Literally no money has been injected, Over summer we sold 35m of players and spent less than 1m...
Where's the money gone?
Anyhow, net spend on transfers is rubbish.
We came up with a championship squad, OF COURSE we were going to have to buy more expensive players that will be worth more than the ones we sold! Fulham spent 110m in 1 year..villa spent 160m in 1 year. I'm not saying we should've done that but if i recall correctly we spent around 55m first season? Sold Wells for 5m and a few others..... 2nd season I think we spent circa 35m? But got 13m back for ince...5m back for malone...
To this day i don't think we spent that much NET on transfers from the day we went up until the summer just gone? yes there's signing on fees, wages but WE INCORPORATED RELEGATION CLAUSES into all contracts so why should we be so apparently hamstrung now???
There's more than one mistake, there's more than one person culpable.
I like the Cowleys and back them fully
I will back PP fully but I can see through how he can got this deal and can make the judgement based on the "We are over budget/we had to get a GK instead of a winger" that he doesn't have anywhere near enough money to fund a championship team
I have a very sour taste in the mouth int he way DH has taken his ball and gone home, which was facilitated by "Selling" to his mate.
He made a number of shocking appointments in management roles and paid the price.
DH Let us sleepwalk into relegation >> He made the bad appointments >> That made bad transfer decisions >> he left and took all his money >> Now we have valueless players with their wages, no parachute payments
he must shoulder some blame for the transfers based on his decisions above. Thus, should arguably factor that in when taking his ball and going home.
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Post by htfcfcfc on Feb 29, 2020 13:08:38 GMT 1
So matching the other clubs we were as big as, and had broadly similar incomes to such as Burnley, wasn’t possible? Well in terms of wages apparently not. We spent on wages what we could spend on wages But in terms of transfer fees.... Towns net spend on transfer fees in 2018/19 was £34,530,000 More than.. Man City !!, also Spurs, BURNLEY ( by £12m ) , Leicester, Newcastle, Palace, Watford and Southampton. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2018The previous season our net spend on transfer fees was £45,270,000 More than.. Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Southampton, Bournemouth, West Ham, Leicester, Stoke, Palace, Swansea, BURNLEY ( by £57m !! ) and Newcastle. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/transfers/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2017So we were actually a pretty middling prem club in terms of expenditure in the transfer market, if 'matching other clubs' is what you want to criticise Town for, and outspent several clubs that are much bigger then us. And as for Burnley, we spent nearly £70m net more than them during our 2 years in the prem!!! Yet youre making out it wasn't possible to match them?? A bit deceiving though when you’re coming from such a low base and you have no players to sell for big money to offset your expenditure. Don’t forget our actual OWNED players at the end of the promotion season would probably have struggled to make the top half of the Championship table. Take Mooy, Brown, Palmer, the GK etc out of the mix and we had to spend money which a lot of the teams you mentioned had spent years ago and then had assets to offset the transfers they did make. Not saying there wasn’t a smarter way to do it than blast cash on Diabenza....But I can’t see these numbers as being too relevant. All the promoted teams spent more than us except Newcastle who chanced their luck on keeping the Premier League level wages when they were in the Championship |
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is that even supposed to mean, honestly, what a patronising load of nonsense. Another daft decision along similar lines as putting a cartoon dog on the shirt at a time when the club was getting world wide exposure whilst leaving the tiny messy 
on the telly for all to see. Makes you wonder what they were smoking down at the John Smiths that summer. Both dumb ideas but at least those ones didn't cost £50M.