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Post by detox on Jul 7, 2023 4:13:37 GMT 1
not quite right the triple lock guarantees CPI/2%/average wage rise? which ever is higher. if they made that offer to the NHS there would be better retention/recruitment and no disputes. The 2% to stay in place until they make up past losses under government austerity. Actually it raises a number of points. You're quite right about the triple lock although this only applies to the state pension. But at approx. £10,600 a year (currently) that's not going to help a lot of people survive on its own. Whilst triple lock will over a longer period bring back some sort of parity, the fact that the state pension was ignored over many, many years and by both sides of the political divide means there is a fare bit of catchup required. As for pensions in general a "final salary" mentioned above is in fact a type of "defined benefits" pension and is a significant benefit for any pay package and should not be dismissed lightly. Most in the private sector no longer have this benefit, whilst most public servants still do - including the NHS. What ever your situation I generally believe that you should save as much as you can for as long as you can, when you can if you want to have a reasonable retirement - you cannot and should not rely on the state (whatever your political persuasion). I know this is not possible for many but there are (in theory) regulations in place to support this such as the workplace pensions schemes - 2008 legislation (created by a labour government by the way). Oh and if you are wanting merit awards and promotion rises then there is always the option to continue working if you want to!! And as this has well and truly drifted off subject clearly the better retirement income you have the more you can spend on the mighty Terriers  Trying to stay on topic re affordable SCs for OAPs,but many work pensions have a cap , usually 5%, so didn't get the 11% inflation increase but also those who opted out of SERPS had an element of Guaranteed Minimum Pension which increases by 0% for older folk and a maximum of 3% for others. This is fine when inflation is only around 2-3%, but now OAPs are seeing their company pensions falling massively behind with inflation so high...UTT |
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Post by crux on Jul 7, 2023 9:58:53 GMT 1
Actually it raises a number of points. You're quite right about the triple lock although this only applies to the state pension. But at approx. £10,600 a year (currently) that's not going to help a lot of people survive on its own. Whilst triple lock will over a longer period bring back some sort of parity, the fact that the state pension was ignored over many, many years and by both sides of the political divide means there is a fare bit of catchup required. As for pensions in general a "final salary" mentioned above is in fact a type of "defined benefits" pension and is a significant benefit for any pay package and should not be dismissed lightly. Most in the private sector no longer have this benefit, whilst most public servants still do - including the NHS. What ever your situation I generally believe that you should save as much as you can for as long as you can, when you can if you want to have a reasonable retirement - you cannot and should not rely on the state (whatever your political persuasion). I know this is not possible for many but there are (in theory) regulations in place to support this such as the workplace pensions schemes - 2008 legislation (created by a labour government by the way). Oh and if you are wanting merit awards and promotion rises then there is always the option to continue working if you want to!! And as this has well and truly drifted off subject clearly the better retirement income you have the more you can spend on the mighty Terriers Trying to stay on topic re affordable SCs for OAPs,but many work pensions have a cap , usually 5%, so didn't get the 11% inflation increase but also those who opted out of SERPS had an element of Guaranteed Minimum Pension which increases by 0% for older folk and a maximum of 3% for others. This is fine when inflation is only around 2-3%, but now OAPs are seeing their company pensions falling massively behind with inflation so high...UTT Ditto staying on topic, however I have two final salary / defined benefit pensions from early retirement on medical grounds. My NHS one is fully index linked and increased by over 10% this year 👍. However the other one has top limits built in and the increase was 3.75% and can never increase by more, no matter how high inflation goes. Unfortunately my NHS pension (from 11 years service) is my smallest pension by some way, but if inflation keeps this up it will be my largest pension soon 😗. |
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Post by samhudds on Jul 7, 2023 10:11:12 GMT 1
Warnock been on talksport this morning basically saying although we have been taken over, due to league constraints we cant spend much this season and has to make do with what what we have plus maybe 1 or 2.
Not what we wanted to hear, looks like Neil may have to work his magic again this year to keep us up.
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Post by crux on Jul 7, 2023 10:20:36 GMT 1
Warnock been on talksport this morning basically saying although we have been taken over, due to league constraints we cant spend much this season and has to make do with what what we have plus maybe 1 or 2. Not what we wanted to hear, looks like Neil may have to work his magic again this year to keep us up. Hopefully it's plus 3 or 4, with the likes of Rhodes and possibly Holmes being moved on to free up both squad places and wages. |
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 7, 2023 10:27:07 GMT 1
Warnock been on talksport this morning basically saying although we have been taken over, due to league constraints we cant spend much this season and has to make do with what what we have plus maybe 1 or 2. Not what we wanted to hear, looks like Neil may have to work his magic again this year to keep us up. I heard that also, didn't sound good. Mentioned there was money for wages but zero in terms of transfer budget. Sounds like we may rely on loans. |
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Post by ram on Jul 7, 2023 10:39:19 GMT 1
Must be spending all the brass on new non playing staff.
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Post by ruggedivy on Jul 7, 2023 10:43:16 GMT 1
Both Nagle and Warnock have now mentioned that we are under financial constraints but neither have offered any clarity of what these are and why we are in this position.
Would be great to hear more clarity from the club on this matter.
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Post by softboy on Jul 7, 2023 10:47:41 GMT 1
To be honest given the financial state of the Championship other than the top 4/5 clubs I cannot see many of the others spending either. Basically if we want to spend money then we will do this by growing income streams from whatever source this may be which seems fair enough to me.
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Post by mosher on Jul 7, 2023 10:55:56 GMT 1
Both Nagle and Warnock have now mentioned that we are under financial constraints but neither have offered any clarity of what these are and why we are in this position.Would be great to hear more clarity from the club on this matter. I'm pretty sure KG gave an outline kind of reason in that interview and said it's only the first season of his tenure that will be so thrifty. He also said that if circumstances allow/dictate it "emergency" funds would be considered, as he did when SacRep needed a new CF to get them over the line last season. |
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Post by royrace on Jul 7, 2023 10:57:10 GMT 1
Both Nagle and Warnock have now mentioned that we are under financial constraints but neither have offered any clarity of what these are and why we are in this position. Would be great to hear more clarity from the club on this matter. Absolutely right, definitely need more clarity on this, doesn't make sense to me tbh however I'm far from being an expert. I'm sure there's a plausible explanation but what is it? New owner; new budget surely!? We're not talking about spaffing millions here so seems very odd to be so constrained. |
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Post by royrace on Jul 7, 2023 11:11:39 GMT 1
Trying to stay on topic re affordable SCs for OAPs,but many work pensions have a cap , usually 5%, so didn't get the 11% inflation increase but also those who opted out of SERPS had an element of Guaranteed Minimum Pension which increases by 0% for older folk and a maximum of 3% for others. This is fine when inflation is only around 2-3%, but now OAPs are seeing their company pensions falling massively behind with inflation so high...UTT Ditto staying on topic, however I have two final salary / defined benefit pensions from early retirement on medical grounds. My NHS one is fully index linked and increased by over 10% this year 👍. However the other one has top limits built in and the increase was 3.75% and can never increase by more, no matter how high inflation goes. Unfortunately my NHS pension (from 11 years service) is my smallest pension by some way, but if inflation keeps this up it will be my largest pension soon 😗. Ah the great pension divide, the thing nobody talks about for some unfathomable reason. The fact that public sector workers earning very average salaries can retire as millionaires due to the absolute obscene pensions we pay for! This is no means a dig at you crux and I'm pleased your ex employer is quite rightly looking after you in retirement but the disparity you highlight does stick in the craw somewhat! Particularly when we constantly hear civil servants crying the poor tale and gaining sympathy from people who couldn't dream of the earning the salary, benefits, pension and security that they do! Apologies for the tangent! The pensioner discounts for everything, including season cards, should be means tested! Many pensioners sat on big, index linked, final salary pensions do NOT need any help!! Younger people struggling with inflation, zero hours contracts, defined contribution pensions, higher interest rates and crazy fuel bills DO! Impossible to police of course but I can fully understand why some people might think that SOME OAPs are way better off financially and don't need any help. |
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Post by crux on Jul 7, 2023 11:33:15 GMT 1
Ditto staying on topic, however I have two final salary / defined benefit pensions from early retirement on medical grounds. My NHS one is fully index linked and increased by over 10% this year 👍. However the other one has top limits built in and the increase was 3.75% and can never increase by more, no matter how high inflation goes. Unfortunately my NHS pension (from 11 years service) is my smallest pension by some way, but if inflation keeps this up it will be my largest pension soon 😗. Ah the great pension divide, the thing nobody talks about for some unfathomable reason. The fact that public sector workers earning very average salaries can retire as millionaires due to the absolute obscene pensions we pay for! This is no means a dig at you crux and I'm pleased your ex employer is quite rightly looking after you in retirement but the disparity you highlight does stick in the craw somewhat! Particularly when we constantly hear civil servants crying the poor tale and gaining sympathy from people who couldn't dream of the earning the salary, benefits, pension and security that they do! Apologies for the tangent! The pensioner discounts for everything, including season cards, should be means tested! Many pensioners sat on big, index linked, final salary pensions do NOT need any help!! Younger people struggling with inflation, zero hours contracts, defined contribution pensions, higher interest rates and crazy fuel bills DO! Impossible to police of course but I can fully understand why some people might think that SOME OAPs are way better off financially and don't need any help. My NHS pension certainly doesn't make me a millionaire 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. It's considerably less than my state pension will (hopefully) be when I get to it. I was just highlighting the difference between the Public & Private sector defined benefits pensions in high inflation times. As I understand it, the NHS pension has now changed considerably and for the worse - I was retired on ill health 8 years ago. I also expect that a way to sort out the current public sector pay disputes will be to bring the pensions in line with the defined contribution ones of the private sector. |
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Post by townarentbest on Jul 7, 2023 12:03:59 GMT 1
Warnock been on talksport this morning basically saying although we have been taken over, due to league constraints we cant spend much this season and has to make do with what what we have plus maybe 1 or 2. Not what we wanted to hear, looks like Neil may have to work his magic again this year to keep us up. How is this a surprise to you, the club have been saying it for weeks - whilst a handful of posters keep ignoring the messages and ridiculously banging on about, "Neil wouldn't have come back if he hadn't been guaranteed a bit pot of gold to spend on a promotion challenge" !! |
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Post by townarentbest on Jul 7, 2023 12:10:20 GMT 1
Both Nagle and Warnock have now mentioned that we are under financial constraints but neither have offered any clarity of what these are and why we are in this position. Would be great to hear more clarity from the club on this matter. Its all in the thread earlier. Allowable losses over a 3 year period along with the capping of shareholder investment. We threw money (mostly wasted in hindsight but we didn't know that Knockaert & Waghorn etc would contribute nothing) at this last season in a desperate attempt to avoid relegation. We'll need a low spend season to avoid having to work under a strict plan and transfer embargos etc moving forwards, and are banking on improving revenues using the american influenced methods of attracting more global income and probably with an aim of increasing supporter spend on match day, to enable the club to have a freer reign moving forward (but with an overall medium to long term ambition of moving the club towards sustainability and stability). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 13:15:38 GMT 1
Ditto staying on topic, however I have two final salary / defined benefit pensions from early retirement on medical grounds. My NHS one is fully index linked and increased by over 10% this year 👍. However the other one has top limits built in and the increase was 3.75% and can never increase by more, no matter how high inflation goes. Unfortunately my NHS pension (from 11 years service) is my smallest pension by some way, but if inflation keeps this up it will be my largest pension soon 😗. Ah the great pension divide, the thing nobody talks about for some unfathomable reason. The fact that public sector workers earning very average salaries can retire as millionaires due to the absolute obscene pensions we pay for! This is no means a dig at you crux and I'm pleased your ex employer is quite rightly looking after you in retirement but the disparity you highlight does stick in the craw somewhat! Particularly when we constantly hear civil servants crying the poor tale and gaining sympathy from people who couldn't dream of the earning the salary, benefits, pension and security that they do! Apologies for the tangent! The pensioner discounts for everything, including season cards, should be means tested! Many pensioners sat on big, index linked, final salary pensions do NOT need any help!! Younger people struggling with inflation, zero hours contracts, defined contribution pensions, higher interest rates and crazy fuel bills DO! Impossible to police of course but I can fully understand why some people might think that SOME OAPs are way better off financially and don't need any help. As a public sector worker who has been paying into the works pension since I started in 1999, I can assure you I will not be retiring as a millionaire. I won't even get a tenth of that if I die in service. You may be confusing it with politicians!! |
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Post by hoggy1975 on Jul 7, 2023 14:01:23 GMT 1
Ditto staying on topic, however I have two final salary / defined benefit pensions from early retirement on medical grounds. My NHS one is fully index linked and increased by over 10% this year 👍. However the other one has top limits built in and the increase was 3.75% and can never increase by more, no matter how high inflation goes. Unfortunately my NHS pension (from 11 years service) is my smallest pension by some way, but if inflation keeps this up it will be my largest pension soon 😗. Ah the great pension divide, the thing nobody talks about for some unfathomable reason. The fact that public sector workers earning very average salaries can retire as millionaires due to the absolute obscene pensions we pay for! This is no means a dig at you crux and I'm pleased your ex employer is quite rightly looking after you in retirement but the disparity you highlight does stick in the craw somewhat! Particularly when we constantly hear civil servants crying the poor tale and gaining sympathy from people who couldn't dream of the earning the salary, benefits, pension and security that they do! Apologies for the tangent! The pensioner discounts for everything, including season cards, should be means tested! Many pensioners sat on big, index linked, final salary pensions do NOT need any help!! Younger people struggling with inflation, zero hours contracts, defined contribution pensions, higher interest rates and crazy fuel bills DO! Impossible to police of course but I can fully understand why some people might think that SOME OAPs are way better off financially and don't need any help. I think a lot of your points sound very familiar to the bile that the daily Mail write about it. Most of the issues are with senior civil servants, not those further down the line. The issue with senior civil servants is that they often do a shite job but are then given a sideways move to another area and do another shite job. And repeat. Many civil servants on the lowest grades are struggling with the pay and won’t retire on big pensions as they were changed a while back (I get information from my partner on this who works for a government department). The pension, benefits (flexi time for a lot of departments), and importantly security are very good. The salary is painfully average in my opinion. I did used to work in the civil service and it’s run terribly, in my opinion (I now work in the private sector). So I’d say, easy to jump on the bandwagon and have a go at the civil service but the majority who earn good wages are in a smaller percentage. Yes they strike, but when our government spaff money left right and centre on their cronies and foreign aid then they are justified IMO. |
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Post by royrace on Jul 7, 2023 15:51:37 GMT 1
Ah the great pension divide, the thing nobody talks about for some unfathomable reason. The fact that public sector workers earning very average salaries can retire as millionaires due to the absolute obscene pensions we pay for! This is no means a dig at you crux and I'm pleased your ex employer is quite rightly looking after you in retirement but the disparity you highlight does stick in the craw somewhat! Particularly when we constantly hear civil servants crying the poor tale and gaining sympathy from people who couldn't dream of the earning the salary, benefits, pension and security that they do! Apologies for the tangent! The pensioner discounts for everything, including season cards, should be means tested! Many pensioners sat on big, index linked, final salary pensions do NOT need any help!! Younger people struggling with inflation, zero hours contracts, defined contribution pensions, higher interest rates and crazy fuel bills DO! Impossible to police of course but I can fully understand why some people might think that SOME OAPs are way better off financially and don't need any help. I think a lot of your points sound very familiar to the bile that the daily Mail write about it. Most of the issues are with senior civil servants, not those further down the line. The issue with senior civil servants is that they often do a shite job but are then given a sideways move to another area and do another shite job. And repeat. Many civil servants on the lowest grades are struggling with the pay and won’t retire on big pensions as they were changed a while back (I get information from my partner on this who works for a government department). The pension, benefits (flexi time for a lot of departments), and importantly security are very good. The salary is painfully average in my opinion. I did used to work in the civil service and it’s run terribly, in my opinion (I now work in the private sector). So I’d say, easy to jump on the bandwagon and have a go at the civil service but the majority who earn good wages are in a smaller percentage. Yes they strike, but when our government spaff money left right and centre on their cronies and foreign aid then they are justified IMO. I can assure you the points I make are from my own personal experience and are backed up by fact, its not something I have read in the paper. You're right it is easy to jump on the bandwagon, when you're not fully aware of the facts, but that works both ways. Also I'm definitely not 'having a go at civil servants'. Also whats the link between the gov spaffing money and workers striking? You dont like them spaffing money presumably but want them to spaff even more on public sector pay? Give everyone in the public sector inflation busting pay rises so we're all paying 10% interest on our mortgages? People striking would do well to look at how its going for people in the private sector IMO. Any way this is seriously off topic so I'll STFU! |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 7, 2023 16:55:29 GMT 1
Adult ST in the only grandstand for L2 football at SU is £449. Just saying.
Maybe the club needs to get more hard nosed when it comes to ideas for raising income.
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Post by softboy on Jul 7, 2023 17:00:35 GMT 1
Agree. The only way to reduce inflation is to give bugger all pay rises and create mass unemployment so nobody has any spare money for anything. Soylent Green the movie is the way forward!
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Post by hoggy1975 on Jul 7, 2023 17:10:29 GMT 1
I think a lot of your points sound very familiar to the bile that the daily Mail write about it. Most of the issues are with senior civil servants, not those further down the line. The issue with senior civil servants is that they often do a shite job but are then given a sideways move to another area and do another shite job. And repeat. Many civil servants on the lowest grades are struggling with the pay and won’t retire on big pensions as they were changed a while back (I get information from my partner on this who works for a government department). The pension, benefits (flexi time for a lot of departments), and importantly security are very good. The salary is painfully average in my opinion. I did used to work in the civil service and it’s run terribly, in my opinion (I now work in the private sector). So I’d say, easy to jump on the bandwagon and have a go at the civil service but the majority who earn good wages are in a smaller percentage. Yes they strike, but when our government spaff money left right and centre on their cronies and foreign aid then they are justified IMO. I can assure you the points I make are from my own personal experience and are backed up by fact, its not something I have read in the paper. You're right it is easy to jump on the bandwagon, when you're not fully aware of the facts, but that works both ways. Also I'm definitely not 'having a go at civil servants'. Also whats the link between the gov spaffing money and workers striking? You dont like them spaffing money presumably but want them to spaff even more on public sector pay? Give everyone in the public sector inflation busting pay rises so we're all paying 10% interest on our mortgages? People striking would do well to look at how its going for people in the private sector IMO. Any way this is seriously off topic so I'll STFU! There are a lot more important factors that impact inflation than public sector rises, which I’m sure you know. I agree it’s off topic though, I may venture over to the dark side of the board at some point to discuss at a later date. |
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Post by softboy on Jul 7, 2023 17:18:54 GMT 1
Back to topic. If the clubs income is say 12m a year then I don’t want us to spend more than this a year, full stop. If it means we hover mid table or just below then so be it. Splash the cash can work but I suggest fans of Derby, Reading and Wigan and probably a few more the coming year might disagree.
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Post by royrace on Jul 7, 2023 17:26:17 GMT 1
Back to topic. If the clubs income is say 12m a year then I don’t want us to spend more than this a year, full stop. If it means we hover mid table or just below then so be it. Splash the cash can work but I suggest fans of Derby, Reading and Wigan and probably a few more the coming year might disagree. The club has been making a big loss for years, all championship clubs make losses as do most PL clubs and a lot in L1,2 and national leagues. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 7, 2023 17:34:27 GMT 1
Back to topic. If the clubs income is say 12m a year then I don’t want us to spend more than this a year, full stop. If it means we hover mid table or just below then so be it. Splash the cash can work but I suggest fans of Derby, Reading and Wigan and probably a few more the coming year might disagree. The club has been making a big loss for years, all championship clubs make losses as do most PL clubs and a lot in L1,2 and national leagues. Would you support a 100% increase in season tickets in order to significantly reduce those losses? |
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Post by workshyfop on Jul 7, 2023 18:31:30 GMT 1
Why are we always skint and have (one of) the lowest budget in the league?
Relegated from the Premier League with parachute payments = skint
Get a new owner = skint
Sell our better players = skint
Finish third, on Sky every week, a play off campaign and Wembley final = skint
Sell our better players = skint
Get a new owner = skint
Why always us?
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Post by royrace on Jul 7, 2023 18:41:08 GMT 1
The club has been making a big loss for years, all championship clubs make losses as do most PL clubs and a lot in L1,2 and national leagues. Would you support a 100% increase in season tickets in order to significantly reduce those losses? No, because imo it wouldn’t make much difference, you’d sell less therefore miss out on additional income whilst failing to grow the fan base. Championship clubs lose loads of money year in year out, it’s a fact. If you don’t like it; don’t buy one. The only chance we have of making a real difference imo is with player sales and running non football assets in and around the ground. Take Brighton for example, wonderfully run club, probably couldn’t have done it any better. £300M in debt and counting. Football clubs lose lots of money. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 7, 2023 18:58:38 GMT 1
Would you support a 100% increase in season tickets in order to significantly reduce those losses? No, because imo it wouldn’t make much difference, you’d sell less therefore miss out on additional income whilst failing to grow the fan base. Championship clubs lose loads of money year in year out, it’s a fact. If you don’t like it; don’t buy one. The only chance we have of making a real difference imo is with player sales and running non football assets in and around the ground. Take Brighton for example, wonderfully run club, probably couldn’t have done it any better. £300M in debt and counting. Football clubs lose lots of money. Fair enough, but I don’t think Town’s ST pricing is sustainable any longer. They are ridiculously low for Championship level football in a good stadium. I’ve already said I’m paying 50% more (and that’s a concession price) for L2 football. I suspect the fall off in ST numbers if Town raised them to say £350 would not be too great at all. A 100% increase to £498 would simply put Town “in the pack” as far as Championship clubs are concerned. It’s a tough balancing act, but if supporters want Town to splash out on better players then they need to pay out more for ST’s. I can’t see player salaries suddenly dropping, and THAT undoubtedly is the root cause of why practically all clubs lose money, so something has to give. |
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Post by detox on Jul 7, 2023 19:34:42 GMT 1
The question is..why did the EFL demand spending constraints?. What did we do wrong because we've been nowhere near breaching FFP. ?..or is it a new thing when foreign owners come in?. Town's track record of financial management as regards FFP is excellent, so how come our new owner can't pump in £5m extra or something?. Someone explain it to me
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 7, 2023 19:39:03 GMT 1
The question is..why did the EFL demand spending constraints?. What did we do wrong because we've been nowhere near breaching FFP. ?..or is it a new thing when foreign owners come in?. Town's track record of financial management as regards FFP is excellent, so how come our new owner can't pump in £5m extra or something?. Someone explain it to me I suspect the current constraints are a legacy of whatever DH truly had to do in order to “steady the ship” financially when Hodgkinson went tits up. All of which is subject to NDA’s. |
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Post by townarentbest on Jul 7, 2023 19:44:16 GMT 1
Why are we always skint and have (one of) the lowest budget in the league? Relegated from the Premier League with parachute payments = skint Get a new owner = skint Sell our better players = skint Finish third, on Sky every week, a play off campaign and Wembley final = skint Sell our better players = skint Get a new owner = skint Why always us? £249. |
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Post by workshyfop on Jul 7, 2023 19:54:22 GMT 1
So, Hoyle fucked it up when “selling” to PH in order to get the most money possible back and hamstrung us with that deal by taking parachute payments and money from player sales. Now he’s done it again by sabotaging the budget for the new owner. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting the Coady money and player sales this summer as part of the deal. Keep gathering your coppers for a statue and tugging your forelocks.
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