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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jul 11, 2020 10:12:23 GMT 1
Can't imagine it'll just be my observations but can't help thinking that this is having such a massive influence on outcomes.
The home advantage is gone, but in most cases that will be a net neutral position, other than size of fanbase of course.
Not sure the fans will be able to stomach much more of this if it rolls over into the start of next season. Can't see football being given dispensation to have thousands congregating every week when so many other industries will be putting measures in place to maintain separation, all of which will come at an increased cost for reduced revenues.
I know we've a thread running on this and I've always thought the integrity line was bollocks (TV & betting ads now back in full swing), but having watched a few of these games now it really is a dire spectacle without the supporters.
I wonder if & when the clubs will really get the importance of supporter participation? As a social experiment this has provided the opportunity to ram that point home. Let's hope they listen & when it does return 'full fat', the clubs start to appreciate what each individual £200+ contribution actually means.
I can't see how the 'spectacle' of behind closed doors sport can be improved. Without the atmosphere, tension etc., it really does feel as though it will become a season of 46 friendly games, where it will wholly depend on skills and attitude of those on the pitch to decide the outcome. Doesn't bode well if your team is in a negative psychological mindset.
The only thing that might change my view that this is utterly boring, is if our minds can adjust to the closed doors element, but with TV games we're so conditioned to tuning into an atmosphere that's personally familiar for us...
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jul 11, 2020 10:25:15 GMT 1
It won't make any difference for us. Our home record is the worst in the league.
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Post by BlueValour on Jul 12, 2020 1:09:04 GMT 1
Our home record is the worst in the league. No it's not - our home record is 19th in the Championship.
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Post by golcarexile on Jul 12, 2020 3:10:44 GMT 1
In Japan this weekend they started allowing crowds into sporting events again, but limited to 5000 people spread around the stadium, all home fans. Getting in involves queueing 2 meters apart and getting your temperature scanned. Masks of course are obligatory. Is that something we'd welcome next season if it comes down to it? I imagine 5000 town fans giving it their all on all 4 sides of the ground would be bound to offer us some kind of advantage.
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Post by bluestripe on Jul 12, 2020 8:01:57 GMT 1
In Japan this weekend they started allowing crowds into sporting events again, but limited to 5000 people spread around the stadium, all home fans. Getting in involves queueing 2 meters apart and getting your temperature scanned. Masks of course are obligatory. Is that something we'd welcome next season if it comes down to it? I imagine 5000 town fans giving it their all on all 4 sides of the ground would be bound to offer us some kind of advantage. Do we have auditions for the loudest 5000? 😀 Or each Season ticket holder gets to see 1 in 3 or so games? I would want to seek a refund if so, although I would feel guilty doing so, so maybe I wouldn't. Can't imagine those who haven't renewed yet would be too enthusiastic about renewing though.
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Post by bogart on Jul 12, 2020 8:13:19 GMT 1
In Japan this weekend they started allowing crowds into sporting events again, but limited to 5000 people spread around the stadium, all home fans. Getting in involves queueing 2 meters apart and getting your temperature scanned. Masks of course are obligatory. Is that something we'd welcome next season if it comes down to it? I imagine 5000 town fans giving it their all on all 4 sides of the ground would be bound to offer us some kind of advantage. Do we have auditions for the loudest 5000? 😀 Or each Season ticket holder gets to see 1 in 3 or so games? I would want to seek a refund if so, although I would feel guilty doing so, so maybe I wouldn't. Can't imagine those who haven't renewed yet would be too enthusiastic about renewing though. Hardly be great wearing masks.
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Post by bogart on Jul 12, 2020 8:16:01 GMT 1
Quest last night showed that away wins are easily outnumbering home wins. No fans to influence the officials?
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Post by bluestripe on Jul 12, 2020 8:23:25 GMT 1
Quest last night showed that away wins are easily outnumbering home wins. No fans to influence the officials? I could understand why there is no home advantage, but did they have a theory why there is an away advantage? Is it psychological, where the players perceive there should be a home advantage, but the reality is worse than their expectation, so their performance suffers? That's about the best mumbo jumbo I could muster at this time on a Sunday morning. 😀
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Jul 12, 2020 8:56:34 GMT 1
It's hard watching behind a screen every week. I feel very detached from Town at the moment. Long term, this isn't going to work for me.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 12, 2020 8:57:18 GMT 1
The games finished without fans there. I’m one of the most avid, ardent football fans there is but I am really struggling to watch football at the minute. It’s nothing to do with Town being shit. I’ve had 40 years to let that soak in. It should never have restarted and it shouldn’t start again until the fans can go back in. I appreciate clubs will struggle. That’s life unfortunately. Things happen in the world that are out of our control and there are bigger things in life than a football club. Behind closed door league games are an insult to football.
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 12, 2020 9:13:46 GMT 1
The games finished without fans there. I’m one of the most avid, ardent football fans there is but I am really struggling to watch football at the minute. It’s nothing to do with Town being shit. I’ve had 40 years to let that soak in. It should never have restarted and it shouldn’t start again until the fans can go back in. I appreciate clubs will struggle. That’s life unfortunately. Things happen in the world that are out of our control and there are bigger things in life than a football club. Behind closed door league games are an insult to football. What if a vaccine is never developed? We don’t have one for the common cold. Just stop professional football all together?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 12, 2020 9:57:17 GMT 1
The games finished without fans there. I’m one of the most avid, ardent football fans there is but I am really struggling to watch football at the minute. It’s nothing to do with Town being shit. I’ve had 40 years to let that soak in. It should never have restarted and it shouldn’t start again until the fans can go back in. I appreciate clubs will struggle. That’s life unfortunately. Things happen in the world that are out of our control and there are bigger things in life than a football club. Behind closed door league games are an insult to football. What if a vaccine is never developed? We don’t have one for the common cold. Just stop professional football all together? No. We get on with life. People who want to go can, people who don’t want to go don’t.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 12, 2020 11:12:01 GMT 1
Though it’s obviously the same for all teams, I can’t help thinking that, especially in our home games, the outcomes would of been very different if our fans had been inside the ground. The way we have got behind our team these last few years, I’m sure that our support would have prompted a few wins.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2020 11:12:02 GMT 1
What if a vaccine is never developed? We don’t have one for the common cold. Just stop professional football all together? No. We get on with life. People who want to go can, people who don’t want to go don’t. That will be across the board shortly. The government will cease making the decisions for everyone and those who deem themselves at risk will have to decide what they do or dont do.. Common sense will eventually prevail?
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 12, 2020 11:22:34 GMT 1
No. We get on with life. People who want to go can, people who don’t want to go don’t. That will be across the board shortly. The government will cease making the decisions for everyone and those who deem themselves at risk will have to decide what they do or dont do.. Common sense will eventually prevail? The sooner the better for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 11:46:32 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8513583/OLIVER-HOLT-Dont-pretend-football-pale-imitation.htmlIt almost feels as if a coup against football has taken place during lockdown. Suddenly, it is a game transformed. More breaks, more subs, more interruptions, more protests, less rhythm, less momentum. It is starting to look like a different game. So when fans are allowed back, will they like what they see? When they are allowed back, will they want to stay? I am not sure that football recognises quite yet the magnitude of the task it faces to win back the fans. The balance of power between clubs and supporters has shifted during the lockdown. Fans had been relegated to cash-cows, customers to be fleeced in superstores and at the turnstile, commodities taken for granted. But the sight and the sounds of those empty stadiums has reminded us that they are the game’s life-blood. We already know we can put a price on the importance of supporters to the ‘product’. Broadcasters forced the Premier League to pay them a £330million rebate for the portion of the season played behind closed doors because the absence of the fans and the atmosphere they create devalued the viewer experience. Extrapolate that figure and apply it to an entire campaign and it tells you fans are worth £1.4billion a season to our top-flight clubs. The clubs should be paying them to come to matches rather than the other way round. Season tickets should be free. We can see clearly now that fans make clubs money and clubs ask them to pay for the privilege. The figures tell us what we already knew and what is being confirmed with every soulless game played behind closed doors: football is nothing without fans. Nobody signed up for this. There has been no consultation with fans. And it really does not take the brains of Lloyd George to work out that it is a rule which will favour richer clubs who have squads packed with larger numbers of higher-quality players. There are enough rules that favour the rich already. We do not need another. That is before we consider the damage that the five-substitute rule does to the rhythm of the game. Yes, each club still only has three opportunities to make changes but the reality of wholesale changes is that momentum in a game is lost. A side introducing three substitutes at once is not uncommon now. It is like the game starting again. The drinks breaks that have appeared since the restart have increased the sense of disruption, too. Wilder has already pointed out that managers like Arsenal’s Mikel Arteta have been using the breaks as auxiliary half-time intervals, seizing them as opportunities for extra coaching. Often, any advantage an opponent may have gained is negated by the drinks break. Even when the fans are back, perhaps especially when the fans are back, the prevalence of these new interruptions will ruin those rhythms and how they rise and fall. If all this were being done in the name of crisis management, we could stomach it. But what was supposed to be temporary is already becoming permanent. It does not feel right. It feels surreptitious and wrong. Changes are bleeding into the game that are altering its nature fundamentally and all without fans being given the chance to make their feelings known. The Premier League are playing a dangerous game. They seem to be in denial. They used to hold all the cards but they don’t any more. It needs to understand that even though some supporters will rush back as soon as they can, others will be more cautious. Maybe that will be because they will no longer feel comfortable in stadiums with tens of thousands of people. Maybe that will be because they have grown used to spending less money during lockdown. Maybe that will be because they have lost their jobs and they no longer have the disposable income the Premier League demands of their supporters and their families. Maybe that will be because they have reassessed their priorities during the crisis and they have decided they are bored of being taken for granted by clubs and kit manufacturers who have been abusing their loyalty and that they would rather spend their money elsewhere. Football must realise now more than ever that it has to make a priority of getting fans back into grounds as soon as it is safe. The longer their absence, the quicker the game will wither and the harder it will be to revive it. West Ham vice-chair Karren Brady said that the plan is to have supporters back in full stadiums by September, which would be a fillip for the league. If the Government can get audiences back into cinemas and theatres, the Premier League has to convince them it can get football fans back into grounds. If they have not been readmitted by early next season, the game will be in even more serious trouble. Even then, the danger for English football is that the public will come back to a game it no longer recognises and no longer loves, a game of changed rhythms and alien interruptions and manufactured breaks and innovations weighted towards the most powerful clubs that make it even harder for the Premier League to maintain the illusion of unpredictability on which much of its appeal is predicated. It may want football back the way it used to be but it is as if the Premier League and the football authorities think they still exist in a world where they can treat fans with disdain. They may find that their world has changed. They may find that power has shifted away from them. They may be in for a rude awakening
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2020 11:53:39 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8513583/OLIVER-HOLT-Dont-pretend-football-pale-imitation.htmlIt almost feels as if a coup against football has taken place during lockdown. Suddenly, it is a game transformed. More breaks, more subs, more interruptions, more protests, less rhythm, less momentum. It is starting to look like a different game. So when fans are allowed back, will they like what they see? When they are allowed back, will they want to stay? I am not sure that football recognises quite yet the magnitude of the task it faces to win back the fans. The balance of power between clubs and supporters has shifted during the lockdown. Fans had been relegated to cash-cows, customers to be fleeced in superstores and at the turnstile, commodities taken for granted. But the sight and the sounds of those empty stadiums has reminded us that they are the game’s life-blood. We already know we can put a price on the importance of supporters to the ‘product’. Broadcasters forced the Premier League to pay them a £330million rebate for the portion of the season played behind closed doors because the absence of the fans and the atmosphere they create devalued the viewer experience. Extrapolate that figure and apply it to an entire campaign and it tells you fans are worth £1.4billion a season to our top-flight clubs. The clubs should be paying them to come to matches rather than the other way round. Season tickets should be free. We can see clearly now that fans make clubs money and clubs ask them to pay for the privilege. The figures tell us what we already knew and what is being confirmed with every soulless game played behind closed doors: football is nothing without fans. Nobody signed up for this. There has been no consultation with fans. And it really does not take the brains of Lloyd George to work out that it is a rule which will favour richer clubs who have squads packed with larger numbers of higher-quality players. There are enough rules that favour the rich already. We do not need another. That is before we consider the damage that the five-substitute rule does to the rhythm of the game. Yes, each club still only has three opportunities to make changes but the reality of wholesale changes is that momentum in a game is lost. A side introducing three substitutes at once is not uncommon now. It is like the game starting again. The drinks breaks that have appeared since the restart have increased the sense of disruption, too. Wilder has already pointed out that managers like Arsenal’s Mikel Arteta have been using the breaks as auxiliary half-time intervals, seizing them as opportunities for extra coaching. Often, any advantage an opponent may have gained is negated by the drinks break. Even when the fans are back, perhaps especially when the fans are back, the prevalence of these new interruptions will ruin those rhythms and how they rise and fall. If all this were being done in the name of crisis management, we could stomach it. But what was supposed to be temporary is already becoming permanent. It does not feel right. It feels surreptitious and wrong. Changes are bleeding into the game that are altering its nature fundamentally and all without fans being given the chance to make their feelings known. The Premier League are playing a dangerous game. They seem to be in denial. They used to hold all the cards but they don’t any more. It needs to understand that even though some supporters will rush back as soon as they can, others will be more cautious. Maybe that will be because they will no longer feel comfortable in stadiums with tens of thousands of people. Maybe that will be because they have grown used to spending less money during lockdown. Maybe that will be because they have lost their jobs and they no longer have the disposable income the Premier League demands of their supporters and their families. Maybe that will be because they have reassessed their priorities during the crisis and they have decided they are bored of being taken for granted by clubs and kit manufacturers who have been abusing their loyalty and that they would rather spend their money elsewhere. Football must realise now more than ever that it has to make a priority of getting fans back into grounds as soon as it is safe. The longer their absence, the quicker the game will wither and the harder it will be to revive it. West Ham vice-chair Karren Brady said that the plan is to have supporters back in full stadiums by September, which would be a fillip for the league. If the Government can get audiences back into cinemas and theatres, the Premier League has to convince them it can get football fans back into grounds. If they have not been readmitted by early next season, the game will be in even more serious trouble. Even then, the danger for English football is that the public will come back to a game it no longer recognises and no longer loves, a game of changed rhythms and alien interruptions and manufactured breaks and innovations weighted towards the most powerful clubs that make it even harder for the Premier League to maintain the illusion of unpredictability on which much of its appeal is predicated. It may want football back the way it used to be but it is as if the Premier League and the football authorities think they still exist in a world where they can treat fans with disdain. They may find that their world has changed. They may find that power has shifted away from them. They may be in for a rude awakening I have watched Towns games only. I would normally try and see a few other games that 'mean' something in relegation or promotion, especially the play offs but I have no interest in empty stadiums and ludicrous backing tracks, the atmosphere in end of season games is everything..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 12:07:01 GMT 1
I’ve binned sky and will only keep next years season ticket if I can go to games. What’s on offer at the moment is a pale Americanised version of football. Not watched any premier league for an age. We have to hope football doesn’t allow tv to take over
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 12:23:39 GMT 1
A bit of an about turn, but I *like* it.
I did watch some behind closed doors games before we'd locked down even (Champions League etc) and found them incredibly dull, and in my head I thought I'd maybe watch one of the first EPL games when they started back up, and maybe one of the Town games, just to have witnessed it, but then not bother.
BUT - I've watched all the Town games, a couple of other Championship games and maybe 4 halfs of an EPL game - plus second leg of one of the play offs...will probably watch the L1 Play off final too.
I'd happily pay £100 if we're given video access to all games home and away next season. As long as there is NO faked virtual atmosphere. Sky are annoying me at the moment in that its not possible to watch EPL in Ultra HD without having the stupid noise. Ive resorted to the inferior picture so I get the real noise.
I certainly WOULDN'T be buying a season ticket for access to our home games if there was any kind of limit imposed that meant less than 12,000 fans were allowed in (although I think we'll have less than 12,000 fans even if there are no restrictions) - watching televised empty John Smiths is better than watching live with 8000 folk all sat 3 seats apart with alternate empty rows.
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Post by bogart on Jul 12, 2020 12:28:42 GMT 1
+Not sure how they could work out any seating. My SC is on the end of a row and I would have to get up and move away anytime anyone wanted into the row. I'd be like a Jack in the box.
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Post by specialun on Jul 12, 2020 16:12:08 GMT 1
Given today’s report in the Guardian re Kirklees I wouldn’t expect to be watching any live football anytime soon...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 16:02:05 GMT 1
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 5, 2020 16:26:16 GMT 1
Abumeyangs wages for a couple of weeks??? 55 normal workers lose their jobs..the game is fucked..
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chinaski
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Post by chinaski on Aug 5, 2020 16:26:30 GMT 1
In Japan this weekend they started allowing crowds into sporting events again, but limited to 5000 people spread around the stadium, all home fans. Getting in involves queueing 2 meters apart and getting your temperature scanned. Masks of course are obligatory. Is that something we'd welcome next season if it comes down to it? I imagine 5000 town fans giving it their all on all 4 sides of the ground would be bound to offer us some kind of advantage. I watched the Kobe Sapporo game this weekend. How weird is supporter culture in Japan. Quiet, polite ripples of applause the whole match. Seemed more like a 4 day county match at Taunton.
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Post by Camel Grabber on Aug 5, 2020 16:29:43 GMT 1
Abumeyangs wages for a couple of weeks??? 55 normal workers lose their jobs..the game is fucked.. Especially giving luiz another deal and ozil 350k a week. Absolutely ridiculous and shows that fans/non playing staff mean nothing to some clubs
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Post by softboy on Aug 5, 2020 16:36:15 GMT 1
I assume with no matches taking place with spectators for the forceable future they have staff that are not required in the short term at least so if this is the case why would you continue to employ them. I am at a complete loss to understand the link between staff (that are not needed) being made redundant and what Ozil earns!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 16:43:51 GMT 1
Abumeyangs wages for a couple of weeks??? 55 normal workers lose their jobs..the game is fucked.. Especially giving luiz another deal and ozil 350k a week. Absolutely ridiculous and shows that fans/non playing staff mean nothing to some clubs even at an average £20 per hour (inc arsenal NI contributions and pension) which is unlikely £20 per hour @ 40 hr week for 55 employees = 20 x 40 x 55 = £44,000 per week redundant employees weekly wage divided by ozil's weekly wage = 44,000/350,000 that is 12.6 % of ozil's wage
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 5, 2020 16:44:16 GMT 1
I assume with no matches taking place with spectators for the forceable future they have staff that are not required in the short term at least so if this is the case why would you continue to employ them. I am at a complete loss to understand the link between staff (that are not needed) being made redundant and what Ozil earns! Goes against the grain but your are obviously right. Arsenal still need to employ their players. Arsenal won’t need to employ certain staff members so it’s common sense.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 16:56:19 GMT 1
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Post by dm on Aug 5, 2020 16:57:13 GMT 1
Abumeyangs wages for a couple of weeks??? 55 normal workers lose their jobs..the game is fucked.. Especially giving luiz another deal and ozil 350k a week. Absolutely ridiculous and shows that fans/non playing staff mean nothing to some clubs The way Arsenal have been run for the last 15-20 years is arguably worse than the way Town have been run in the last 3 if you consider the level they were at at the turn of the millennium. Their best assets constantly leaving for next to nothing cos they leave negotiations too late. They reacted to the prospect of losing Sanchez and Ozil by throwing stupid money at them. Now they're having to do the same with Aubameyang. They think that paying over the odds makes a player good (Xhaka, Sokratis, Pepe). Recently, they resort to signing their rivals' cast-offs when they'repast their best (Cech, Welbeck, Luiz - Willian is alright but already 31 so hasn't got too many years left at the top). Then they supplement those with dross like Holding and Chambers. Martinelli is good, Guendouzi is decent (if a little limited but they appear to have had a fall out) and their academy produce some decent players. A shadow of the side that boasted Henry, Vieira, Bergkamp, Ljungberg, Campbell, Pires, et al. And now they're making many staff redundant to pay for the greedy twats holding them to ransom cos they can't be arsed to offer a contract early enough or do some proper recruitment.
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