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Post by detox on Jul 14, 2020 10:19:40 GMT 1
When I read about the details of the deal with PH I thought straight away that it was a holding role and that DH would come back..DH is only 56 or so, no age that (from my perspective). He probably did need a break but I reckon he's already twitching for a return..he's come out of the job without any financial damage to his nest egg, and equally importantly with a wealth of experience on what to do and what not do. The deal with PH, where DH retains 30% and PH basically gets the club for free..and the fact he was a 'mate' rather than a foreign investor tells me it's just s holding role which PH has agreed on.
It took DH a while to find the 'right' manager and to employ people who knew what they were doing..he already admits some of his appointments were poor, so he's learned. That sort of experience, and the fact he'd probably be prepared to splash the £50m-£60m again might be tempting for him...if he was prepared to lose it all before, then why not again ?
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he isn't already researching potential managers who can bring similar to what Wagner did, that he's setting out his plans on hor to run the club better than he did..who to appoint, and what image he wants for us..
DH will still be a massive Town fan, that doesn't go away..for most anyway..he'll be tempted I'm sure and I think he'll bite again..
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Post by clayts on Jul 14, 2020 10:31:57 GMT 1
Winter left because he couldn't work with Hodgkinson. It's irrelevant whether we should have kept him or not, I don't know the answer, but he was the CEO during our must successful period in the last 50 years. But you are making it relevant. This implies we lost a really important member of the senior management team at the club because he couldn't work with PH. This leads to the next question which will then be debated, what is wrong with PH (as it suggests that he is at fault). My point is without the honest story, and the ability to apply context, the headline takes the story in another direction i.e. PH can't get on with people, people don't like PH and this is causing issues behind the scenes at the club. It might be true, but we don't know. I cannot comment on the others because I don't know the reasons for their departures, however Sean Jarvis, one of the most popular directors ever has recently left the club and Roger Burnley also left soon after he took over. That's three directors in a matter of months.
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Post by clayts on Jul 14, 2020 10:32:23 GMT 1
Some of the mistakes preceded his illness anyway, people refer to his illness as a convenient excuse rather than a real reason. Brexit means Brexit, sound familiar! - UTT. No it doesn't, it means Brexit.
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Post by dugnet on Jul 14, 2020 10:45:22 GMT 1
But you are making it relevant. This implies we lost a really important member of the senior management team at the club because he couldn't work with PH. This leads to the next question which will then be debated, what is wrong with PH (as it suggests that he is at fault). My point is without the honest story, and the ability to apply context, the headline takes the story in another direction i.e. PH can't get on with people, people don't like PH and this is causing issues behind the scenes at the club. It might be true, but we don't know. I cannot comment on the others because I don't know the reasons for their departures, however Sean Jarvis, one of the most popular directors ever has recently left the club and Roger Burnley also left soon after he took over. That's three directors in a matter of months. That is only no better than; There's no smoke without fire. However it doesn't give the full story or any context. For me I don't think PH can really be held responsible for our position. I think, with hindsight, he has made a couple of mistakes (he could have abandoned Siewert straight away - but I can't criticise that as I thought it was right to give him a go - I was woefully wrong, the fact is he should never have been appointed) and made a couple daft comments. I also don't think pictures with him in training gear with his initials on gives a good impression. That is my personal perception but aligning yourself with the playing side, even if it is cosmetic, isn't a good look. If you were a former footballer with pedigree then maybe, but a bloke who advises people on their business and legal dealings? I don't think so.... I guess people will believe what they want to suit their point of view. As it stands though implying that people leaving is directly due to PH and their ability to get on with him is a bit unfair, might be true, and lacks context.
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Post by benhomly on Jul 14, 2020 10:45:41 GMT 1
When I read about the details of the deal with PH I thought straight away that it was a holding role and that DH would come back..DH is only 56 or so, no age that (from my perspective). He probably did need a break but I reckon he's already twitching for a return..he's come out of the job without any financial damage to his nest egg, and equally importantly with a wealth of experience on what to do and what not do. The deal with PH, where DH retains 30% and PH basically gets the club for free..and the fact he was a 'mate' rather than a foreign investor tells me it's just s holding role which PH has agreed on. It took DH a while to find the 'right' manager and to employ people who knew what they were doing..he already admits some of his appointments were poor, so he's learned. That sort of experience, and the fact he'd probably be prepared to splash the £50m-£60m again might be tempting for him...if he was prepared to lose it all before, then why not again ? It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he isn't already researching potential managers who can bring similar to what Wagner did, that he's setting out his plans on hor to run the club better than he did..who to appoint, and what image he wants for us.. DH will still be a massive Town fan, that doesn't go away..for most anyway..he'll be tempted I'm sure and I think he'll bite again.. A lot of assumptions in there! I don't know PH myself but I know someone who does and from what he tells me he is a very ambitious man who is very unlikely to be happy to be in just a holding role until DH is ready to step back in. Personally I think we could do with a fresh start from the very top, think PH is too unpredictable and a bit of a hot head and I don't share your thoughts re DH. Last couple of days we've had DH's interest ranging from 20% to now 30% - I always thought it was 25%? As for appointing the 'right' manager and people who knew what they were doing and that he's again researching potential managers to bring the good times(?) back - let's face it he just got lucky. They spent enough time researching DW's successor and look how well that turned out.
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Post by sandgrounder on Jul 14, 2020 10:58:25 GMT 1
The only way DH would return of sorts is to protect his interest (£50million) of them.
If parachute payments are negatively impacted then has to be a real possibility that PH won’t be able to make the repayments. Relegation would equally be damaging for the club and its revenue potential.
It’s simple we have to stay up and let the boardroom politics play itself out over time.
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Post by griffa on Jul 14, 2020 11:01:50 GMT 1
Brexit means Brexit, sound familiar! - UTT. No it doesn't, it means Brexit. And Coronavirus means Coronavirus! Smoke & mirrors, nudge, nudge, know what I mean?
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Post by clayts on Jul 14, 2020 11:18:55 GMT 1
I cannot comment on the others because I don't know the reasons for their departures, however Sean Jarvis, one of the most popular directors ever has recently left the club and Roger Burnley also left soon after he took over. That's three directors in a matter of months. That is only no better than; There's no smoke without fire. However it doesn't give the full story or any context. For me I don't think PH can really be held responsible for our position. I think, with hindsight, he has made a couple of mistakes (he could have abandoned Siewert straight away - but I can't criticise that as I thought it was right to give him a go - I was woefully wrong, the fact is he should never have been appointed) and made a couple daft comments. I also don't think pictures with him in training gear with his initials on gives a good impression. That is my personal perception but aligning yourself with the playing side, even if it is cosmetic, isn't a good look. If you were a former footballer with pedigree then maybe, but a bloke who advises people on their business and legal dealings? I don't think so.... I guess people will believe what they want to suit their point of view. As it stands though implying that people leaving is directly due to PH and their ability to get on with him is a bit unfair, might be true, and lacks context. I haven't implied anything. Julian Winter left because he couldn't work with Phil Hodgkinson, I have no idea why the other two left.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 14, 2020 11:40:20 GMT 1
The only way DH would return of sorts is to protect his interest (£50million) of them. If parachute payments are negatively impacted then has to be a real possibility that PH won’t be able to make the repayments. Relegation would equally be damaging for the club and its revenue potential. It’s simple we have to stay up and let the boardroom politics play itself out over time. That would be my interpretation as well. If Town slip into admin then all debt - except footballing ones - would need to be revisited in 2003 Barry Rubery was asked to waiver £12.5m and David Taylor £8000k www.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/05/newsstory.sport10
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Post by turbo2 on Jul 14, 2020 11:58:46 GMT 1
The only way DH would return of sorts is to protect his interest (£50million) of them. If parachute payments are negatively impacted then has to be a real possibility that PH won’t be able to make the repayments. Relegation would equally be damaging for the club and its revenue potential. It’s simple we have to stay up and let the boardroom politics play itself out over time. That would be my interpretation as well. If Town slip into admin then all debt - except footballing ones - would need to be reneogiated in 2003 Barry Rubery was asked to waiver £12.5m and David Taylor £8000k www.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/05/newsstory.sport10Between those two amounts and the 50m owed to Dean we’ve been running at some loss for a long long time
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Post by mids on Jul 14, 2020 12:11:34 GMT 1
There's a lot of ungrateful people on this thread, most of whom seem to have very short memories, or selective brain freeze. I trust none of whom are at death's door for a very long time, and they don't have to reassess life's priorities and how best to secure their own family's future.
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Post by royrace on Jul 14, 2020 12:22:51 GMT 1
There's a lot of ungrateful people on this thread, most of whom seem to have very short memories, or selective brain freeze. I trust none of whom are at death's door for a very long time, and they don't have to reassess life's priorities and how best to secure their own family's future. Dont be silly.
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Post by bluesandtwos on Jul 14, 2020 12:27:06 GMT 1
I can see how , as the man at the very top, the ultimate responsibility lies with him. But even so, having got into the prem ( which undoubtedly caught everyone out a bit ) all he could do was back the manager whod got us there. And why wouldnt he? Think the attitude was 'we're here, so we might as well have a go'.. and we did.. we outspent a lot of other prem clubs whilst we were in that division. Did the first summer, the following jan window and did the second summer too. Hoyle didnt chose any of the players,, so yeah as top man he shoulders the ultimate responsibility but them being lame, vastly overpriced players wasn't his direct fault. Wagner was a hero fopr taking us up.. a legend... he worked the transfer market brilliantly to get a team that could go up... but them he wasted almost all our prem money on rubbish, Should dean have put the brakes on. Stopped the signings... in hindsight , yes. Bet he wishes he had. But at the time, you have a manager who has achieved the impossible, then achieved the impossible again.. so are you really going to lose faith in him at that point and pull the plug on his wish list? Especially when there are a host of clubs trying to lure him away from you? Its very easy to say in hindsight, yes he should have. But in the summer after we'd stayed up I can imagine the outrage, disappointment and screams of lack of ambition on here if he had. Nothing Dean Hoyle has done in terms of money has put us where we are now.. not in the negative sense anyway.. it is purely down to the people deciding who we spent our money on blowing it all... absolute fortunes of it. Sorry Captain but I can't agree with you here as the terms of the transfer to Phil have put us in a terrible position financially. Yes I know you'll say (as you have many many times) that he had every right to his money back but if he truly cared about Town he could have structured the deal differently. Very few people who invest in football ever see their investment back and as someone else posted earlier he could have arranged payback over a significantly longer period. Why not be reimbursed at a rate of say £500,000 per annum over 100 years which would have been affordable for the club and would have kept him and his family in a very comfortable position for a long time. Why did it have to be repaid so quickly as I'm sure there were a number of ways the ownership could have changed hands whilst ensuring a substantial return on his investment. I think very nearly dying changes your perspective and your priorities.
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Post by royrace on Jul 14, 2020 12:33:04 GMT 1
I got the impression the idea was for the club to be a debt free relatively successful championship club in three years time and possibly be ripe for a takeover.
I suspect that plan failed to take into account that the club would have to write off ~£30M of transfer fees and continue to pay high wages for no reward on the pitch. It certainly wouldnt have taken into account relegation or COVID and probably didn't take into account expensively replacing the manager 9 games in to the first season and padding the squad out with expensive short term transfers. I'd say the plan is probably already in tatters.
I certainly dont expect Dean to cripple the club but I've no idea how he and Phil will work it out between them, I guess there is some sort of contingency built into the deal.
Dean clearly didn't want the day to day hassle of being the focal point, I guess that might change one day but I expect it would take a while.
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Post by benhomly on Jul 14, 2020 12:33:44 GMT 1
There's a lot of ungrateful people on this thread, most of whom seem to have very short memories, or selective brain freeze. I trust none of whom are at death's door for a very long time, and they don't have to reassess life's priorities and how best to secure their own family's future. Dont be silly. I have to agree with this. If 99.9% of Town fans had just ONE million quid to secure their family's future I think they would be absolutely delighted. And I don't get the ungrateful bit either, I don't think Deano did what he did for me or any other Town fan I think he did it for his love of the club and because he could. The only people who should be grateful IMO are those who he has made into millionaires also.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 14, 2020 12:48:05 GMT 1
There's a lot of ungrateful people on this thread, most of whom seem to have very short memories, or selective brain freeze. I trust none of whom are at death's door for a very long time, and they don't have to reassess life's priorities and how best to secure their own family's future. Fucking hell the bloke is a millionaire, him and his family's future is secure already. Nothing to do with being ungrateful, what you mean you want us to be grateful for what he did only when things were good and now things are bad you don't want to criticise him? Is that what you mean?
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Amigo on Jul 14, 2020 12:50:01 GMT 1
I have to agree with this. If 99.9% of Town fans had just ONE million quid to secure their family's future I think they would be absolutely delighted. And I don't get the ungrateful bit either, I don't think Deano did what he did for me or any other Town fan I think he did it for his love of the club and because he could. The only people who should be grateful IMO are those who he has made into millionaires also. £1m to most of us is a lot of money but when your family have worked so hard to make a hell of a lot more then £1m isn't much, £50m is. I don't get the whole he doesn't need it he can afford we're entitled to it now argument, it's HIS money for him and his family. They've earned it not us or the football club.
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Post by drumriggend on Jul 14, 2020 12:50:59 GMT 1
He’s not coming back..
He’s taken up golf..
Obsessed with it apparently..
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Post by benhomly on Jul 14, 2020 13:12:35 GMT 1
I have to agree with this. If 99.9% of Town fans had just ONE million quid to secure their family's future I think they would be absolutely delighted. And I don't get the ungrateful bit either, I don't think Deano did what he did for me or any other Town fan I think he did it for his love of the club and because he could. The only people who should be grateful IMO are those who he has made into millionaires also. £1m to most of us is a lot of money but when your family have worked so hard to make a hell of a lot more then £1m isn't much, £50m is. I don't get the whole he doesn't need it he can afford we're entitled to it now argument, it's HIS money for him and his family. They've earned it not us or the football club. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have it back I'm just reacting to the ridiculous notion that he might need it to secure his family's future. If he needs that money to secure his family's future then he was a fool to invest it in a football club in the first place. The fact is he obviously wants it back in the family which is his choice to make of course but lets not kid ourselves he needs it. And we all work hard for what we've got (well most of us anyway), just coz we haven't reached the financial heights he has doesn't mean we've worked any less hard.
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Post by mids on Jul 14, 2020 13:17:51 GMT 1
Those that insinuate he's got enough anyway he may as well splash the rest on his hobby and not worry about the untold millions are laughable.
Every single one of you, in the same position of Dean, would take the same course of action - without any discussion.
It's always easier to spend someone else's money. Everyone loved him when he was spending his money (with no prospect of it ever coming back to him) and helping our team survive, and progress. But once he has a life changing moment in his life, and chooses to claw back some of his money/investment (at a time - the only time - when it is available, without hamstringing our club) he is a pariah.
If the team had performed even half decent this season this topic wouldn't even have been a major thing. But because the players (and club) have stumbled along and we find ourselves staring at the abyss, some grown adults have spat their dummies out and looked for a scapegoat - you'd think they'd know better, or at least a bit of compassion.
Dean made mistakes, plenty of them. But in the big picture his successes outweigh his failings, in business and with our football club. I'd have thought that would have granted him some leniency - but clearly not.
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Post by mids on Jul 14, 2020 13:20:40 GMT 1
£1m to most of us is a lot of money but when your family have worked so hard to make a hell of a lot more then £1m isn't much, £50m is. I don't get the whole he doesn't need it he can afford we're entitled to it now argument, it's HIS money for him and his family. They've earned it not us or the football club. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have it back I'm just reacting to the ridiculous notion that he might need it to secure his family's future. If he needs that money to secure his family's future then he was a fool to invest it in a football club in the first place. The fact is he obviously wants it back in the family which is his choice to make of course but lets not kid ourselves he needs it. And we all work hard for what we've got (well most of us anyway), just coz we haven't reached the financial heights he has doesn't mean we've worked any less hard. It's not ridiculous to get his money back in his family rather than it being used to pay the wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo, Simpson et al. I agree that his family is probably already secure, but there's nothing wrong him him getting his money back (at the sole time it was available) and allowing them to be even more secure.
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Post by benhomly on Jul 14, 2020 13:25:09 GMT 1
I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have it back I'm just reacting to the ridiculous notion that he might need it to secure his family's future. If he needs that money to secure his family's future then he was a fool to invest it in a football club in the first place. The fact is he obviously wants it back in the family which is his choice to make of course but lets not kid ourselves he needs it. And we all work hard for what we've got (well most of us anyway), just coz we haven't reached the financial heights he has doesn't mean we've worked any less hard. It's not ridiculous to get his money back in his family rather than it being used to pay the wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo, Simpson et al. I agree that his family is probably already secure, but there's nothing wrong him him getting his money back (at the sole time it was available) and allowing them to be even more secure. I agree with all that, but then I wasn't saying anything above to disagree with that either.
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Post by clayts on Jul 14, 2020 13:31:05 GMT 1
I have no problem with him taking his money back, however, I feel the speed at which he wants repaying is hindering us as a club and impacting us financially. Why does he need it all straight away? Why can't it be spread over 5 years rather than 3?
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Amigo on Jul 14, 2020 13:35:32 GMT 1
£1m to most of us is a lot of money but when your family have worked so hard to make a hell of a lot more then £1m isn't much, £50m is. I don't get the whole he doesn't need it he can afford we're entitled to it now argument, it's HIS money for him and his family. They've earned it not us or the football club. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have it back I'm just reacting to the ridiculous notion that he might need it to secure his family's future. If he needs that money to secure his family's future then he was a fool to invest it in a football club in the first place. The fact is he obviously wants it back in the family which is his choice to make of course but lets not kid ourselves he needs it. And we all work hard for what we've got (well most of us anyway), just coz we haven't reached the financial heights he has doesn't mean we've worked any less hard. Some work harder than others and some strive to achieve more than others. He and his family have obviously taken great risks at different points to get to where they have when the majority wouldn't and would just settle for working hard for a "normal" wage. This "we all work hard he just got lucky" mentality just screams of jealousy. How do you know they don't now need it? Maybe they've made bad investments and do need it back now. Maybe they're wanting to open a different business and need the capital to set it off. We don't have a clue so I don't think it's fair to be suggesting it's ridiculous he needs it back. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't but his personal situation is absolutely nothing to do with a football fan.
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Post by eddieyoudsscarf on Jul 14, 2020 13:40:32 GMT 1
Anyone who is annoyed at our situaton and blames Dean Hoyle is absolutley right! Without him we cold only dream of being at the bottom end of the Championship
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Post by dugnet on Jul 14, 2020 13:53:55 GMT 1
Those that insinuate he's got enough anyway he may as well splash the rest on his hobby and not worry about the untold millions are laughable. Every single one of you, in the same position of Dean, would take the same course of action - without any discussion. It's always easier to spend someone else's money. Everyone loved him when he was spending his money (with no prospect of it ever coming back to him) and helping our team survive, and progress. But once he has a life changing moment in his life, and chooses to claw back some of his money/investment (at a time - the only time - when it is available, without hamstringing our club) he is a pariah. If the team had performed even half decent this season this topic wouldn't even have been a major thing. But because the players (and club) have stumbled along and we find ourselves staring at the abyss, some grown adults have spat their dummies out and looked for a scapegoat - you'd think they'd know better, or at least a bit of compassion. Dean made mistakes, plenty of them. But in the big picture his successes outweigh his failings, in business and with our football club. I'd have thought that would have granted him some leniency - but clearly not. I think you are being unfair to many people who are disappointed that there has been a distinct lack of ownership for the mistakes. Moreover it has hardly given PH much of a chance to be successful. I have every respect for the fact that he put the money in, without which we would not have progressed, and he is perfectly entitled to take it back. I think what people are disappointed with is that where everything was laid out and thought through we are now guessing about why some decisions where taken. I couldn't argue with people who feel that our current predicament could have been averted and taking the money back appears to make our overall position considerably weaker. Everyone hoped that success would be a "step change". To find ourselves looking at a return to the morass of where we came from, although from a footballing viewpoint maybe entirely justified, is a little bit hard to accept. The lack of communication and acceptance of responsibility hasn't helped mitigate that feeling of disappointment. We really must get away from this mindset of being grateful for the success we had and trading it off against a period of prolonged mediocrity/decline. The fact is we DID have that success and it should have been built on. Looking back and saying "at least we had"....is quite frankly nonsense. The truth is we are where we are, someone is going to have to take hold of the club and try and turn it round. The debate will continue for a long time yet. It's sad that the relationship with DH has been tainted, but it isn't something that is entirely unreasonable.
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Post by dugnet on Jul 14, 2020 13:57:26 GMT 1
Anyone who is annoyed at our situaton and blames Dean Hoyle is absolutley right! Without him we cold only dream of being at the bottom end of the Championship So that's our benchmark is it? What you say is factually correct but if that is the sum total of what we should aim to achieve then why bother? Come and support Huddersfield Town but don't anticipate being any better than bottom of the Championship, despite having had two seasons in the Premier League. It's hardly a great argument is it?
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 14, 2020 14:24:21 GMT 1
I have no problem with him taking his money back, however, I feel the speed at which he wants repaying is hindering us as a club and impacting us financially. Why does he need it all straight away? Why can't it be spread over 5 years rather than 3? It's always better to fix the roof when the sun is shining. The one certainty Town had financially when Dean sold the club was 3 years of parachute payments. Makes sense not to prolong the work of becoming debt free past that.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 14, 2020 14:33:14 GMT 1
I am struggling to think of another walk of life where someone can invest millions of pounds with very little prospect of being repaid, and choosing to do so out of love/passion, and then the beneficiaries of that generosity feel they have the moral high ground to criticise them for asking for what they are owed when it becomes clear that the investment has meant you can now more than pay it back. Look just a little south to tonight's opponents. They are breaking the rules left right and centre. Look across the Pennines at Wigan. Or at Derby. We are, relatively speaking, lucky to have had owners who had the club's best interests at heart. I genuinely believe that Dean kept a 25% stake as a safety net - he can be the white knight again if we need him. But why he'd want to when there are so many short-sighted folk is beyond me. Yes, he may be wealthy enough not to need the money back, but why should he just it goodbye? He's not taken out more than he put in, far from it. And he nearly fucking died in post. I heard that twice his family were told to drop everything and get to the hospital. We should be naming a stand after him or something, not sniping at him because since he left the club's gone to shit.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jul 14, 2020 14:37:59 GMT 1
This could roll on forever.
I can't really recall one instance of where a Chairman or CEO has lasted their full tenure and been universally lauded throughout. There may be some exceptions, I just can't think of any.
So it was always going to end like this at some point, football fans are amongst the most fickle and two faced bastards on the planet.
You have to kiss a lot of frogs as the saying goes. Not that long ago I think some on here would never have imagined HTFC supporters talking about 8 figure transfer fees (regardless of how shite some were) & figures of tens of £m's around club finances.
Despite the misery and moaning we're probably in much better shape than tons of other clubs, but some folk have become too accustomed to being spoilt...
Just enjoy the fecking ride!!!
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