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Post by Amigo on Sept 15, 2020 19:07:11 GMT 1
Cammie (Jerome) is just Trying to get himself upto speed to secure another move in England after been away. He's back at his mums at Paddock and this suits all parties. Town get to take a look at him and he gets himself fit. Someone posted about 3 posts up from you that he was training with us. He's been back for a while hasn't he and been linked with us a for about a month now? After the rubbish you told everyone about Schindler you've now made me question if he has actually been training with us. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 15, 2020 19:12:27 GMT 1
Cammie (Jerome) is just Trying to get himself upto speed to secure another move in England after been away. He's back at his mums at Paddock and this suits all parties. Town get to take a look at him and he gets himself fit. Someone posted about 3 posts up from you that he was training with us. He's been back for a while hasn't he and been linked with us a for about a month now? After the rubbish you told everyone about Schindler you've now made me question if he has actually been training with us. Apparently just a fitness thing than playing for town |
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Post by 66738 on Sept 15, 2020 19:17:17 GMT 1
As far as I can fathom: We have agreed a fee For Grant with WBA but the payment structure has not been agreed yet? If we got a fee of say, £18M. That would be a profit of £16M on him (assuming we did pay £2M for him). If Charlton has a sell on agreement of a rumoured 20% of any profit we make on KG, that would come to £3.2M. Am I right in thinking Charlton would be paid their wedge in full straight away? Then the tax man would want his bit. So for us, we would need an upfront payment of at least £4M(probably nearer £5M) for us to cover the above and to invest a bit in the squad? Is the main sticking point the amount they pay immediately to us or do we think it’s more about over a time frame? But I did read on here a bit back about no player transfer fees to go back into the squad? Feel free to put me right on any of the above. It’s just my simple understanding of the situation. Not sure is the answer not automatically I would have thought If a performance or appearance increment is involved we would not send it on then I think it would be based on realised profit on a transaction so it would work the other way We would repay any outstanding debt on the original contract Any profit sharing would be pro rata down all the clubs he has played for and who have a claim against any potential profit Or something like that🤓 Ok. Allan. Thank you for your explanation. |
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Post by explorer on Sept 15, 2020 19:24:20 GMT 1
I see Andy Both is training with us with a view a one year contract 😀 Andy Both? Is this a “bogof” deal, if so sign them up. “Two Andy Boths, there’s only two Andy Boths...,“ |
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Post by explorer on Sept 15, 2020 19:27:50 GMT 1
If that's true am I too late for a refund ? 84 followers I’d say it’s a fake account I’d say the fact that Sky’s reporter’s name is Rob Dorsett and this account is Rob Dorrsett might be an even bigger give-away..... |
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Post by captainjack on Sept 15, 2020 19:30:33 GMT 1
Not sure is the answer not automatically I would have thought If a performance or appearance increment is involved we would not send it on then I think it would be based on realised profit on a transaction so it would work the other way We would repay any outstanding debt on the original contract Any profit sharing would be pro rata down all the clubs he has played for and who have a claim against any potential profit Or something like that🤓 Ok. Allan. Thank you for your explanation. I’m not an expert in the football business, but in a normal business you pay corporation tax on profits, not on individual transactions. So you can buy and sell as much as you want and only at the end of the financial year is your profit taxed. Again, Football clubs may be different but I haven’t heard so if they are. |
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Sept 15, 2020 19:56:43 GMT 1
Shirt sponsor negotiations obviously went well also, I wonder how many back office salaries that would pay? Any other championship teams without a sponsor? Or any in the whole pyramid for that matter? It's not that simple though, if for example town value shits sponsorship at £500k but because of the situation companies are only offering £200k if we accept that then we devalue it for next season and the following season etc. Nobody will pay 500k next season for something we sold at 200k this season, a lot of clubs will be desperate to get any money in right now but we don't need to be due to having extra income. This will leave us in a stronger negotiating position next time round and won't hurt us that much financially this year. Not sure I agree with your negotiating strategy. If my business were approaching Town with the interest of sponsoring them this time next year I'd be thinking Town's shirt had little/zero value the last two seasons therefore we should be able to get a bargain as they're under financial pressure. If no one has offered £500k this year then it's not worth £500k. The economy isn't going to suddenly be in a great position next summer. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 20:21:50 GMT 1
Remember him saying he’d never play for town who jerome cambell ! |
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Post by Stiggy on Sept 15, 2020 20:25:05 GMT 1
As far as I can fathom: We have agreed a fee For Grant with WBA but the payment structure has not been agreed yet? If we got a fee of say, £18M. That would be a profit of £16M on him (assuming we did pay £2M for him). If Charlton has a sell on agreement of a rumoured 20% of any profit we make on KG, that would come to £3.2M. Am I right in thinking Charlton would be paid their wedge in full straight away? Then the tax man would want his bit. So for us, we would need an upfront payment of at least £4M(probably nearer £5M) for us to cover the above and to invest a bit in the squad? Is the main sticking point the amount they pay immediately to us or do we think it’s more about over a time frame? But I did read on here a bit back about no player transfer fees to go back into the squad? Feel free to put me right on any of the above. It’s just my simple understanding of the situation. I'm sure the club will come up with some bollocks as to why we still can't spend. They'll probably do the usual and announce the deal on deadline day so the money can be pocketed, never to be seen again. |
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on Sept 15, 2020 20:26:16 GMT 1
It's not that simple though, if for example town value shits sponsorship at £500k but because of the situation companies are only offering £200k if we accept that then we devalue it for next season and the following season etc. Nobody will pay 500k next season for something we sold at 200k this season, a lot of clubs will be desperate to get any money in right now but we don't need to be due to having extra income. This will leave us in a stronger negotiating position next time round and won't hurt us that much financially this year. Not sure I agree with your negotiating strategy. If my business were approaching Town with the interest of sponsoring them this time next year I'd be thinking Town's shirt had little/zero value the last two seasons therefore we should be able to get a bargain as they're under financial pressure. If no one has offered £500k this year then it's not worth £500k. The economy isn't going to suddenly be in a great position next summer. Then if no-one deems it worth £500k (for example) hey ho, we have a sponsorless shirt that look a whole lot better without a betting logo splashed across the middle. Think I remember seeing Sean Jarvis say the premier league shirt sponsor Ope generated around 10 times what we'd had previously and Ope paid £1.5 million a year if I remember correctly. Which would suggest before that we were looking at around £150k-£200k a year. Or 3-5% of a Sobhi or Mounie (allegedly). I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a higher price than we've previously demanded to have the right to advertise across our shirt, it should be sacred! I think the success of the paddy power shirt maybe made them realise how much the fans prefer it without a sponsor. I'd rather we didn't just bend over to the highest offer, particularly when the sums we're talking about are fractions of the transfer fees we're taking in. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 20:26:26 GMT 1
Still no official pictures of Sarr, or video interview. Where is he? We will he actually be able to play? And if it is going to be like this for other signings, we might not have our full squad sorted until November..... Now you come to mention it, something does seem odd with that. Has he been abroad and now quarantined? town have explained the situation will be available for forest game if required |
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4 pts
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Post by 4 pts on Sept 15, 2020 20:32:36 GMT 1
Do I honestly think we will make a profit on Grant? Is that the question? You are not taxed on transaction it’s the net taxable profit of the business I don’t think we will make a profit this year do you? If not no tax ! *I have read the full conversation* Allan, i know from your posts that you have a wealth of knowledge in accounting, but why does it always need to be cryptic before explaining to me and others that don't have a full understanding of finance who pays who what ? Its like Holmes explaining to confused Watson the meaning of life before he eventually gets back on topic and gives him the facts of the murder......in laymans terms  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 20:54:11 GMT 1
You are not taxed on transaction it’s the net taxable profit of the business I don’t think we will make a profit this year do you? If not no tax ! Sorry Allan I wasn’t aware of that. So take the taxman bit out, is the other stuff correct? I am naive in these things hence why I was asking was my thinking correct. Will we not make a profit? Parachute payments are classed as revenue, so income may be c £40m + for the season, so I think after a lower wage bill and operating costs we could still turn a paper profit as the grant sale would offset any losses on sale of Other players. Hoyle is taking cash out of the business, this is not a p&l item. So even worse scenario is we are paying Hoyle out of taxed income. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 15, 2020 20:54:24 GMT 1
As far as I can fathom: We have agreed a fee For Grant with WBA but the payment structure has not been agreed yet? If we got a fee of say, £18M. That would be a profit of £16M on him (assuming we did pay £2M for him). If Charlton has a sell on agreement of a rumoured 20% of any profit we make on KG, that would come to £3.2M. Am I right in thinking Charlton would be paid their wedge in full straight away? Then the tax man would want his bit. So for us, we would need an upfront payment of at least £4M(probably nearer £5M) for us to cover the above and to invest a bit in the squad? Is the main sticking point the amount they pay immediately to us or do we think it’s more about over a time frame? But I did read on here a bit back about no player transfer fees to go back into the squad? Feel free to put me right on any of the above. It’s just my simple understanding of the situation. I'm sure the club will come up with some bollocks as to why we still can't spend. They'll probably do the usual and announce the deal on deadline day so the money can be pocketed, never to be seen again. You respond to a reasoned question with more club bashing make thread for this shite and stay there till you grow up |
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Post by bluestripe on Sept 15, 2020 20:55:44 GMT 1
You are not taxed on transaction it’s the net taxable profit of the business I don’t think we will make a profit this year do you? If not no tax ! *I have read the full conversation* Allan, i know from your posts that you have a wealth of knowledge in accounting, but why does it always need to be cryptic before explaining to me and others that don't have a full understanding of finance who pays who what ? Its like Holmes explaining to confused Watson the meaning of life before he eventually gets back on topic and gives him the facts of the murder......in laymans terms 6px. I think he is saying that HTAFC is very likely to make a loss overall this year. Income will be less than outgoings. HTAFC will therefore have tax losses (i.e negative tax). Let's assume Town loses £10m. Players are assets and their value is recorded on the Balance Sheet. Any gains payable on player transfers (e.g. Grant) after all costs and purchase price will be subject to tax. Let's assume the gains on Grant, Mounie etc are £6m. This means overall Town have made a loss of £4m (£10m loss less £6m profit) No tax is paid as has been suggested, and that tax loss can be carried forward until Town next makes a profit. That's the principle anyway. The above may not be 100% accurate in terms of tax rules. There are one or two people who know a lot about accounting on here. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 15, 2020 21:00:57 GMT 1
Sorry Allan I wasn’t aware of that. So take the taxman bit out, is the other stuff correct? I am naive in these things hence why I was asking was my thinking correct. Will we not make a profit? Parachute payments are classed as revenue, so income may be c £40m + for the season. Hoyle is taking cash out of the business, this is not a p&l item. So even worse scenario is we are paying Hoyle out of taxed income. Yep they are revenue but sales of players at a loss are a cost as is paying off the Crowley’s and any other redundancy Still got big wages on board and players we are paying who are not playing Then the lack of a shirt sponsor Then less season tickets Then agent fees (thieves) Then no revenue from shirts Then no income from parking Phew Then no revenue from concessions at the game Then cost of isolation and constant testing Then no programs Then We’ll the list is a long one And no I don’t want to guess as there is no point Taxable profit this year very unlikely |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Sept 15, 2020 21:06:40 GMT 1
You are not taxed on transaction it’s the net taxable profit of the business I don’t think we will make a profit this year do you? If not no tax ! *I have read the full conversation* Allan, i know from your posts that you have a wealth of knowledge in accounting, but why does it always need to be cryptic before explaining to me and others that don't have a full understanding of finance who pays who what ? Its like Holmes explaining to confused Watson the meaning of life before he eventually gets back on topic and gives him the facts of the murder......in laymans terms Not easy with fat fingers and bad internet in the trossachs it is hard because I have been pulled up by some for talking to them like children I actually think this would be a great subject on its own for a club Q&A Get real answers rather than my semi educated guessing I would be glad to quiz a club representative on it I once audited the mighty terriers in the early 80s🤓 Those were very different times 😉 |
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Post by josiegee on Sept 15, 2020 21:17:25 GMT 1
Any chance admins of Maynard having his own personal thread so I don’t have to wade through irrelevant posts? I’d just like some transfer news please. Last few pages are full of finance stuff (so boring 😴) and discussions on the merits /faults of players that have already been discounted by those ITK.
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Sept 15, 2020 21:25:35 GMT 1
Any chance admins of Maynard having his own personal thread so I don’t have to wade through irrelevant posts? I’d just like some transfer news please. Last few pages are full of finance stuff (so boring 😴) and discussions on the merits /faults of players that have already been discounted by those ITK. Maybe add cameo and brodie81 and job’s a good ‘un. |
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Post by gingerc on Sept 15, 2020 21:32:33 GMT 1
Ok, stats time on Rhodes over the last 5 seasons 2015/16 to 2019/20): Total appearances (all competitions) = 166 Total minutes played = 8,841 Total goals = 39 Average appearances per season = 33.2 Average mins per game = 52.26 Average mins per goal = 226.69 If you just focus on the league: Total appearances (league only) = 152 Total minutes played = 8,177 Total goals = 33 Average appearances per season = 30.4 Average mins per game = 53.8 Average mins per goal = 247.79 source: footystats.org/players/scotland/jordan-rhodesSo he has been getting appearances and a reasonable amount of minutes but just not replicating his form for us and his first few seasons at Blackburn. It should be noted the above are still somewhat skewed by his stats in 2015/16 where he played 45 matches (43 in the league), played 3,408 mins (3,340 mins in the league) and bagged 17 goals (16 in the league). However, ignoring the stats there is an interesting question; is it just the teams style of play at teams he’s been at over recent seasons doesn’t suit him? I think back to Boothy for us in his first spell and we played to his strengths and he bagged plenty of goals (c. 1 in 2). He moved to Wednesday and whilst he was in the Premier League and up against better defences they never really played to his strengths in the air and he was a c. 1 in 4 striker. When he came back we played to his strengths again (yes, we were in the lower leagues but he was older and less mobile) and he was a c. 1 in 3 player again. As someone else has mentioned, a team that plays to Rhodes style will probably be rewarded with goals. The question would be whether CC’s style would suite him. If it did he’d be a good addition if the price was right and the wages were reasonable. If not, then we should look elsewhere. |
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Post by terriers321 on Sept 15, 2020 21:32:51 GMT 1
Not sure what happened with the Gotts transfer. Was actually a member of his family that told me he had signed and was going to be announced the week after.
Only time I thought I had some inside info and it didnt bloody happen.
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Post by space hardware on Sept 15, 2020 21:32:52 GMT 1
Any chance admins of Maynard having his own personal thread so I don’t have to wade through irrelevant posts? I’d just like some transfer news please. Last few pages are full of finance stuff (so boring 😴) and discussions on the merits /faults of players that have already been discounted by those ITK. Maybe add cameo and brodie81 and job’s a good ‘un. was the oracle, if you look back at his/her posting history |
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smooth
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Post by smooth on Sept 15, 2020 21:48:11 GMT 1
Maybe Phil was talking about VAT? Pretty sure players are standard rated so an £18m sale would generate a hefty £3.6m output charge and its highly unlikely inputs would get anywhere near this to offset. Vat is due the quarter after its incurred I think? Or maybe there's a way to spread the output charge over time.
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Post by jasrick on Sept 15, 2020 21:53:46 GMT 1
Maybe Phil was talking about VAT? Pretty sure players are standard rated so an £18m sale would generate a hefty £3.6m output charge and its highly unlikely inputs would get anywhere near this to offset. Vat is due the quarter after its incurred I think? Or maybe there's a way to spread the output charge over time. I like this theory but only thing is, it would mean we were being paid 6 instalments if the first instalment was to be fully used to pay VAT... suppose it could be 6 instalments with two a year, doubt we’d agree to being paid over 6 years? |
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Post by positive plus + pompous on Sept 15, 2020 21:56:06 GMT 1
Finances thread?
Town 3 0 at the weekend
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 22:01:51 GMT 1
Maybe Phil was talking about VAT? Pretty sure players are standard rated so an £18m sale would generate a hefty £3.6m output charge and its highly unlikely inputs would get anywhere near this to offset. Vat is due the quarter after its incurred I think? Or maybe there's a way to spread the output charge over time. VAT is charged to the customer though surely you just pass it on or accommodate it in your valuation like you would in an invoice. For example I’m selling something for £10 + VAT the customer would pay me £12 as they pay 20% vat on top of the price |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 22:05:36 GMT 1
Will we not make a profit? Parachute payments are classed as revenue, so income may be c £40m + for the season. Hoyle is taking cash out of the business, this is not a p&l item. So even worse scenario is we are paying Hoyle out of taxed income. Yep they are revenue but sales of players at a loss are a cost as is paying off the Crowley’s and any other redundancy Still got big wages on board and players we are paying who are not playing Then the lack of a shirt sponsor Then less season tickets Then agent fees (thieves) Then no revenue from shirts Then no income from parking Phew Then no revenue from concessions at the game Then cost of isolation and constant testing Then no programs Then We’ll the list is a long one And no I don’t want to guess as there is no point Taxable profit this year very unlikely Who will we sell at a book loss? Not Mounié - we make a book profit on him if sold for €5m 3/4 into his contract. Profit on Sobhi. Profit on Grant. Other players released have had their contracts fully amortized. |
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keefer
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by keefer on Sept 15, 2020 22:08:32 GMT 1
drumriggendWell there’s one or two I wouldn’t mind swapping shirts with, tackling, practising ball juggling with, and other terribly bad innuendo’s. 🤷🏼♂️😁 But their game is improving and deserves the coverage. If they were laking in my back garden.. I’d draw the curtains.. 🤪 Even if they were playing shirts vs skins? |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Sept 15, 2020 22:10:27 GMT 1
cameo was the oracle, if you look back at his/her posting history Don't think he quite reached the hit ratio of Townrwe though |
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Post by space hardware on Sept 15, 2020 22:22:53 GMT 1
cameo was the oracle, if you look back at his/her posting history Don't think he quite reached the hit ratio of Townrwe though 😁 |
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