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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 9, 2020 10:21:11 GMT 1
It will have its twists and turns but got to be better than all this manager and player power.
B team, scouting pyramid, selling club, attacking press, decisions by committee rather than a manager who leaves after 10 losses.
Shame it took 20 useless players and a near second relegation to realise this...not to mention £150 mill spaffed.
We will never compete at the top end...never ever...so cut the cloth to fit, lets see exciting football and let the fans reign over the players.
No-one minds the odd loss...what we have seen for most of the last 8 years was dross more than loss.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 10:25:07 GMT 1
And yet I absolutely loved what we did with Wagner for the first 2 and a half years, The best football I have seen since Bruce had that one season.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 9, 2020 10:25:31 GMT 1
Huddersfield Town. Years since being in the top division ... ONE
Brentford. Years since being in the top division... SIXTY PLUS
Otium. Minutes since he felt he had to have yet another pop at something he purports to care for... ONE
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Post by softboy on Aug 9, 2020 10:31:55 GMT 1
The only problem I see with the Brentford model is that it includes an average coach who cannot handle pressure when things get tough.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 10:48:32 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better.
I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business.
I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion.
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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on Aug 9, 2020 11:01:49 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. Which model is that? Leeds and Fulham are piles apart. Leeds employed an experienced but unusual manager who managed to turn a bunch of fairly average players into a fantastic team. Fulham employed a rookie manager and gave him a very expensive team to manage. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 11:07:15 GMT 1
The model that gets a team promoted.
Some people rave on about this Brentford model being the only way forward and I understand the basics of this but they are still in the same division.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 11:08:47 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. Fulham employed a rookie manager and gave him a very expensive team to manage. How much was our squad worth at the beginning of this season? |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 9, 2020 12:00:50 GMT 1
I'm just happy we have a structure and lines of responsibility and accountability that are apparently transparent. We now have a plan.
This approach won't immediately see the team transform into one who look likely to sustain a challenge at the top end of the Championship but we should hope to see tangible progress.
Of course in sacking the Cowleys we have something that people will point back to if this doesn't work. It will also put immense pressure on PH and his team.
How long will people give this? I suspect that it will depend on the football on the pitch. This will be more telling than results. As soon as DW arrived there was a visible change. I suspect many will be hoping for the same from Carlos.
The spotlight is also on the recruitment process. The signing of a couple of quality players or players who impress with their attitude will be expected, as opposed to hoped for.
It can't be lost that this really is a complete change. It shouldn't be forgotten. However given how things have gone in the last 2 years it's difficult to gauge the patience of the fans.
It's hopefully going to work but it will certainly be fascinating to see how it plays out.
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Post by artysid on Aug 9, 2020 12:12:08 GMT 1
Fulham employed a rookie manager and gave him a very expensive team to manage. How much was our squad worth at the beginning of this season? How much was our squad worth, or how much had we paid for it? |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Aug 9, 2020 12:32:43 GMT 1
The model that gets a team promoted. Some people rave on about this Brentford model being the only way forward and I understand the basics of this but they are still in the same division. You do realise that Brentford had a tiny ground of c10k attendance and they’re essentially a league 1 team that have been at the business end of the championship for about 6 years with numerous managers? Playing attractive football, selling players for huge sums and financing a new ground on the outskirts of London. They haven’t chopped and changed with new managers, the model has been the same even as the management and playing staff have changed. The Leeds, West Brom and Fulham model is spending huge sums of money that would cripple other clubs. Are you suggesting we hire one of the best coaches in the world and give him a wage bill of £40m without parachute payments as Leeds have done? |
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Post by softboy on Aug 9, 2020 12:59:26 GMT 1
Constantly challenging and not achieing actual success does not seem a positive business model to me. Yea they play fast attacking football but this achieved no success for them.
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Post by specialun on Aug 9, 2020 13:06:52 GMT 1
Is it really a complete change? From the last 9 months yes, but the last few years no?
We’ve had a head coach and similar structure since November 2015 for all but 9 months?
It’s clear the Wagner / Webber recruitment led decisions (German influx, see similar at Norwich) in 2016 shifted to the club / recruitment led, head coach model thereafter
We’ve had club led recruitment led model for years - we just discarded it for 9 months
Nobody had accountability as we couldn’t keep a HOF!
Webber
Moss
Rebbe
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Aug 9, 2020 13:16:32 GMT 1
Constantly challenging and not achieing actual success does not seem a positive business model to me. Yea they play fast attacking football but this achieved no success for them. How is consistently keeping the balance sheet in the black and making up to 1000% profit on some players not a positive business model? They've lost out this season to 3 teams whose budgets piss all over theirs, and by the finest of margins too. They are streets ahead of us as things stand with much smaller crowds and no PL money coming in. If you think that's not a positive business model then sorry, but you're off your head. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 13:18:24 GMT 1
The model that gets a team promoted. Some people rave on about this Brentford model being the only way forward and I understand the basics of this but they are still in the same division. You do realise that Brentford had a tiny ground of c10k attendance and they’re essentially a league 1 team that have been at the business end of the championship for about 6 years with numerous managers? Playing attractive football, selling players for huge sums and financing a new ground on the outskirts of London. They haven’t chopped and changed with new managers, the model has been the same even as the management and playing staff have changed. The Leeds, West Brom and Fulham model is spending huge sums of money that would cripple other clubs. Are you suggesting we hire one of the best coaches in the world and give him a wage bill of £40m without parachute payments as Leeds have done? I think you misunderstand my post, or the intention of my post. I am fully aware of Brentford’s details, their ground size etc. I don’t agree they are essentially a League 1 team, they aren’t a League 1 team. They are a Championship team. That’s like saying Sunderland are essentially a Championship team, they aren’t. They are a League 1 team. My initial post was highlighting the fact that they are still in this division, even if they do have a great model. Yes, having a new brand new ground playing at home to Wycombe will be wonderful I’m sure. I have never suggested at any point we copy anyone’s model. I’m ok with Town as we are. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 9, 2020 13:21:52 GMT 1
Huddersfield Town. Years since being in the top division ... ONE Brentford. Years since being in the top division... SIXTY PLUS Otium. Minutes since he felt he had to have yet another pop at something he purports to care for... ONE That's rubbish pal...complete dogshit. We were lucky to get there, lucky to stay there and went down with the 2nd worst record in Prem history. We have just become the team with the worst 8 year win record in the football league just overtaking Sunderland. Its been a few highlights and mostly dire crud. Minus goals every season...even when we went up. We have not found any great players, we do not have any great players, we have sold one very good player who we got on the cheap in 7 seasons. Man Utds reserve team would beat our first team right now 29 times out of 30...that's how far away we are/were. If I said the sky was blue you would say it wasn't. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 9, 2020 13:23:01 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. You seem to forget that we don't have, and will never have, £200 mill to spend. Brentfords model is buy low and sell high. Sensible. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 9, 2020 13:23:45 GMT 1
Constantly challenging and not achieing actual success does not seem a positive business model to me. Yea they play fast attacking football but this achieved no success for them. Agree with a lot you say, but I think you're being ridiculously 'black and white' here. You can't effectively have the result in one game against Fulham being the determinant of them being successful or not. On the face of it, an incredibly well run club. Punching above their weight; regularly making the best use of their resources. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 9, 2020 13:26:29 GMT 1
Constantly challenging and not achieing actual success does not seem a positive business model to me. Yea they play fast attacking football but this achieved no success for them. I think what Benham has done in 7 years is remarkable on the budget. |
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davebee
Mini Terrier
Brentford fan in exile
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Post by davebee on Aug 9, 2020 13:26:55 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. Brentford fan here, and something of a long time lurker as my wife is a Huddersfield season ticket holder. I thought it might be worth pointing out that the "Brentford model" is not necessarily about achieving short term success, which most football fans and pundits would measure in terms of promotion. It is better viewed as a strategy designed to achieve sustainability in a division that is dominated by sleeping giants and clubs with the financial advantage of parachute payments. In hugely simplistic terms this is achieved by identifying players that are undervalued, and then selling them on at their peak. The longer term aim appears to be to bring players through to the first team via the B team. The strategy takes a long term approach that looks beyond the tenure of the current first team coach, whose performance is measured against somewhat unusual metrics that focus on process and performance, rather than actual results (our owner believes that the results of football matches are skewed by luck and is therefore not a reliable measure of performance). This frequently raises eyebrows in the football media whenever the "table of justice" gets mentioned! This approach has generated significant profits that has made the club financially stable, and has enabled the squad to improve year on year. The downside is significant churn of the playing squad, which typically results in a slow start every season as the team beds down. Whether we will achieve promotion to the premier league remains to be seen, however having seen first hand the effects that the inevitable relegation can have on apparently well run clubs, in some respects I think I prefer being in the Championship, where there is much more variance from season to season. It is worth pointing out that Mark Devlin is not seen by Brentford fans as the brainchild of our strategy, with this accolade generally being directed to Matthew Benham (owner) and Phil Giles and Rasmus Ankersen (DoFs). It will be interesting to see how much influence he has at Huddersfield and whether the strategy will stick long term - think 5 years plus. The big challenge will be how you identify the undervalued players without seemingly having access to the datasets required to compare players from all over the world. Good luck for next season. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 13:27:07 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. You seem to forget that we don't have, and will never have, £200 mill to spend. Brentfords model is buy low and sell high. Sensible. Who had £200 million readily available to spend? |
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Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Melc on Aug 9, 2020 13:29:09 GMT 1
Fulham employed a rookie manager and gave him a very expensive team to manage. How much was our squad worth at the beginning of this season? About a third of Fulhams! |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 13:36:01 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. Brentford fan here, and something of a long time lurker as my wife is a Huddersfield season ticket holder. I thought it might be worth pointing out that the "Brentford model" is not necessarily about achieving short term success, which most football fans and pundits would measure in terms of promotion. It is better viewed as a strategy designed to achieve sustainability in a division that is dominated by sleeping giants and clubs with the financial advantage of parachute payments. In hugely simplistic terms this is achieved by identifying players that are undervalued, and then selling them on at their peak. The longer term aim appears to be to bring players through to the first team via the B team. The strategy takes a long term approach that looks beyond the tenure of the current first team coach, whose performance is measured against somewhat unusual metrics that focus on process and performance, rather than actual results (our owner believes that the results of football matches are skewed by luck and is therefore not a reliable measure of performance). This frequently raises eyebrows in the football media whenever the "table of justice" gets mentioned! This approach has generated significant profits that has made the club financially stable, and has enabled the squad to improve year on year. The downside is significant churn of the playing squad, which typically results in a slow start every season as the team beds down. Whether we will achieve promotion to the premier league remains to be seen, however having seen first hand the effects that the inevitable relegation can have on apparently well run clubs, in some respects I think I prefer being in the Championship, where there is much more variance from season to season. It is worth pointing out that Mark Devlin is not seen by Brentford fans as the brainchild of our strategy, with this accolade generally being directed to Matthew Benham (owner) and Phil Giles and Rasmus Ankersen (DoFs). It will be interesting to see how much influence he has at Huddersfield and whether the strategy will stick long term - think 5 years plus. The big challenge will be how you identify the undervalued players without seemingly having access to the datasets required to compare players from all over the world. Good luck for next season. I’m really glad that fans are on board with this strategy and it’s a refreshing change to hear someone talk about the long game, as opposed to any short term success. I suppose my comments were a little presumptuous in the sense that I feel the model would be deemed a success if the football ladder was climbed. I suppose just staying in business is deemed successful in today’s game. My own opinion is that this model is a great idea until others follow suit, then its back to the drawing board as no advantage can be gained. I was really rooting for you guys in the final but it wasn’t meant to be, promotion brings unbelievable joy and also huge disappointment but that is just my experience. All the best and thanks for the honest insight. |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Aug 9, 2020 13:41:21 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. Brentford fan here, and something of a long time lurker as my wife is a Huddersfield season ticket holder. I thought it might be worth pointing out that the "Brentford model" is not necessarily about achieving short term success, which most football fans and pundits would measure in terms of promotion. It is better viewed as a strategy designed to achieve sustainability in a division that is dominated by sleeping giants and clubs with the financial advantage of parachute payments. In hugely simplistic terms this is achieved by identifying players that are undervalued, and then selling them on at their peak. The longer term aim appears to be to bring players through to the first team via the B team. The strategy takes a long term approach that looks beyond the tenure of the current first team coach, whose performance is measured against somewhat unusual metrics that focus on process and performance, rather than actual results (our owner believes that the results of football matches are skewed by luck and is therefore not a reliable measure of performance). This frequently raises eyebrows in the football media whenever the "table of justice" gets mentioned! This approach has generated significant profits that has made the club financially stable, and has enabled the squad to improve year on year. The downside is significant churn of the playing squad, which typically results in a slow start every season as the team beds down. Whether we will achieve promotion to the premier league remains to be seen, however having seen first hand the effects that the inevitable relegation can have on apparently well run clubs, in some respects I think I prefer being in the Championship, where there is much more variance from season to season. It is worth pointing out that Mark Devlin is not seen by Brentford fans as the brainchild of our strategy, with this accolade generally being directed to Matthew Benham (owner) and Phil Giles and Rasmus Ankersen (DoFs). It will be interesting to see how much influence he has at Huddersfield and whether the strategy will stick long term - think 5 years plus. The big challenge will be how you identify the undervalued players without seemingly having access to the datasets required to compare players from all over the world. Good luck for next season. Oof, not the ribs, you bastard 😂 |
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Post by sabailand on Aug 9, 2020 13:42:01 GMT 1
Also got to take into account Brentford are not a big club, they`re a small west London club who do fantastically well, although theres been no promotions not too many would be complaining if our next six seasons mirrored Brentfords last six (playoff defeats aside).
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Post by dm on Aug 9, 2020 13:44:26 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. The Leeds model of hiring an ex-international team s' coach on absolutely millions per year and spending several million on players and taking 2 years to get up even when the 'experts' were predicting them to win the division for 10 years over David Wagner's model of doing things cheaply but getting up at the first attempt - when the 'experts' predicted relegation? Slaven Bilic is also an ex-international coach... probably also on absolutely millions. Fulham have a billionaire owner so spent millions on their squad, went through several managers and stumbled upon Scott Parker who was already at the club. Its easy to say you like their models when they have just won promotion. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 9, 2020 13:46:19 GMT 1
I would have to say that the Leeds, West Brom and Fulham ‘model’ is better. I agree that their football is easy on the eye but at the end of the day it’s a results business. I don’t think their fans would mind a negative goal difference and grinding out results to achieve promotion. The Leeds model of hiring an ex-international team s' coach on absolutely millions per year and spending several million on players and taking 2 years to get up even when the 'experts' were predicting them to win the division for 10 years over David Wagner's model of doing things cheaply but getting up at the first attempt - when the 'experts' predicted relegation? Slaven Bilic is also an ex-international coach... probably also on absolutely millions. Fulham have a billionaire owner so spent millions on their squad, went through several managers and stumbled upon Scott Parker who was already at the club. Its easy to say you like their models when they have just won promotion. Where did I say I like that model? I put forward a comment that the better model would be the one that got you promoted. |
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Post by dm on Aug 9, 2020 13:54:54 GMT 1
The Leeds model of hiring an ex-international team s' coach on absolutely millions per year and spending several million on players and taking 2 years to get up even when the 'experts' were predicting them to win the division for 10 years over David Wagner's model of doing things cheaply but getting up at the first attempt - when the 'experts' predicted relegation? Slaven Bilic is also an ex-international coach... probably also on absolutely millions. Fulham have a billionaire owner so spent millions on their squad, went through several managers and stumbled upon Scott Parker who was already at the club. Its easy to say you like their models when they have just won promotion. Where did I say I like that model? I put forward a comment that the better model would be the one that got you promoted. So you'd 'prefer' them but you don't like them? You could just say you prefer Liverpool's model if the success is all you'd prefer. All I was saying is that Leeds walked the league this year but it has cost them so much money. West Brom were lucky Brentford bottled it. Their bottling was also beneficial to Fulham. |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 9, 2020 14:00:25 GMT 1
This approach has generated significant profits that has made the club financially stable, and has enabled the squad to improve year on year. The downside is significant churn of the playing squad, which typically results in a slow start every season as the team beds down. Whether we will achieve promotion to the premier league remains to be seen, however having seen first hand the effects that the inevitable relegation can have on apparently well run clubs, in some respects I think I prefer being in the Championship, where there is much more variance from season to season. It is worth pointing out that Mark Devlin is not seen by Brentford fans as the brainchild of our strategy, with this accolade generally being directed to Matthew Benham (owner) and Phil Giles and Rasmus Ankersen (DoFs). It will be interesting to see how much influence he has at Huddersfield and whether the strategy will stick long term - think 5 years plus. The big challenge will be how you identify the undervalued players without seemingly having access to the datasets required to compare players from all over the world. Good luck for next season. No, not having this - you can't possibly be a true football fan because you talk far too much common sense!  You also accept that the Greedy League isn't all that it's cracked up to be; for that alone, I applaud you.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 14:09:54 GMT 1
This approach has generated significant profits that has made the club financially stable, and has enabled the squad to improve year on year. The downside is significant churn of the playing squad, which typically results in a slow start every season as the team beds down. Whether we will achieve promotion to the premier league remains to be seen, however having seen first hand the effects that the inevitable relegation can have on apparently well run clubs, in some respects I think I prefer being in the Championship, where there is much more variance from season to season. It is worth pointing out that Mark Devlin is not seen by Brentford fans as the brainchild of our strategy, with this accolade generally being directed to Matthew Benham (owner) and Phil Giles and Rasmus Ankersen (DoFs). It will be interesting to see how much influence he has at Huddersfield and whether the strategy will stick long term - think 5 years plus. The big challenge will be how you identify the undervalued players without seemingly having access to the datasets required to compare players from all over the world. Good luck for next season. No, not having this - you can't possibly be a true football fan because you talk far too much common sense! You also accept that the Greedy League isn't all that it's cracked up to be; for that alone, I applaud you. MT he does talk sense and i like your line cant be a true fan. we will see how things pan out but i applaud town for giving it a go |
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