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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 13:45:49 GMT 1
Worst part for me is that he has given it to someone who doesn’t and never did have the funds to make us competitive, and will see us in league 1 in the not too distant future. You all know that as facts do you?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 13:49:15 GMT 1
id also add, if DH ran his business towards the end of selling up, in the same way he ran town before selling up, he'd have never got close to what he got for card factory. obviously he didnt, because he's a good business man. which just shows he let his heart rule his head with town, resulting in wrecklessness. so why should he be judged by us with head over heart? the head on me thinks he's well within his right to get his brass back, heart says we are all fans who love the club and throw money at it non of us want it back we want a successful club so im not sure how much sympathy i have with him feeling unwelcome. obviously he doesnt deserve abuse, and id still buy the tight sod a pint ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) but i'll never agree with his decision being fair or a good one for the club Card Factory was a business which could be planned and managed. If it had 30 stores and one was losing money the manager or staff could be let go, or changed, or the store could be closed. All items and groups of items could have their profitability checked, designs changed, prices raised or lowered, all this stuff could be monitored and amended if required. It takes time but you can see what works and tweak it as required. Your customer base can also be grown. In football if you purchase a poor player on a 3 year deal you are stuffed. Get in a manager who doesn't cut the mustard it costs a lot of money to get rid of them. You cannot sell tickets to more people than will fit in your stadium and you can't really change your customer base, who by and large are a pretty fickle bunch. Someone gets injured long term it still costs you a lot of money and you are limited when you can bring in a replacement and how many staff you can have. You don't, in Town's case, have full control of your business premises, so you cannot maximise profits there. If you go up a division you have very little time to adjust your business model and personnel whereas growing a normal business slowly allows you more time to plan and scale up. In all businesses bad decisions cost you but in football they can very expensive very fast, we are certainly not alone in that. Very few football clubs are consistently successful except the big ones, and the Premier League has made that more pronounced. Nobody has denied mistakes were made but football is not a normal business and that has to be taken into account. At last, a considered & reflective post based on the real world.
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Apr 10, 2021 13:54:26 GMT 1
Worst part for me is that he has given it to someone who doesn’t and never did have the funds to make us competitive, and will see us in league 1 in the not too distant future. You all know that as facts do you? Steve, it's an opinion that someone is giving on an online forum designed for people to give and discuss their opinions. You clearly have a different opinion. Care to share it? Or are you just gonna make snide, childish comments at people whose opinion is different to yours.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 14:03:29 GMT 1
You all know that as facts do you? Steve, it's an opinion that someone is giving on an online forum designed for people to give and discuss their opinions. You clearly have a different opinion. Care to share it? Or are you just gonna make snide, childish comments at people whose opinion is different to yours. I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong!
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Post by ritchie on Apr 10, 2021 14:15:42 GMT 1
id also add, if DH ran his business towards the end of selling up, in the same way he ran town before selling up, he'd have never got close to what he got for card factory. obviously he didnt, because he's a good business man. which just shows he let his heart rule his head with town, resulting in wrecklessness. so why should he be judged by us with head over heart? the head on me thinks he's well within his right to get his brass back, heart says we are all fans who love the club and throw money at it non of us want it back we want a successful club so im not sure how much sympathy i have with him feeling unwelcome. obviously he doesnt deserve abuse, and id still buy the tight sod a pint ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) but i'll never agree with his decision being fair or a good one for the club Card Factory was a business which could be planned and managed. If it had 30 stores and one was losing money the manager or staff could be let go, or changed, or the store could be closed. All items and groups of items could have their profitability checked, designs changed, prices raised or lowered, all this stuff could be monitored and amended if required. It takes time but you can see what works and tweak it as required. Your customer base can also be grown. In football if you purchase a poor player on a 3 year deal you are stuffed. Get in a manager who doesn't cut the mustard it costs a lot of money to get rid of them. You cannot sell tickets to more people than will fit in your stadium and you can't really change your customer base, who by and large are a pretty fickle bunch. Someone gets injured long term it still costs you a lot of money and you are limited when you can bring in a replacement and how many staff you can have. You don't, in Town's case, have full control of your business premises, so you cannot maximise profits there. If you go up a division you have very little time to adjust your business model and personnel whereas growing a normal business slowly allows you more time to plan and scale up. In all businesses bad decisions cost you but in football they can very expensive very fast, we are certainly not alone in that. Very few football clubs are consistently successful except the big ones, and the Premier League has made that more pronounced. Nobody has denied mistakes were made but football is not a normal business and that has to be taken into account. Not sure your point. I understand the risks of football investment, Dean hoyle should (will) also have known the risks, therefore not expected to get his money back unless it was from a position of strength. All that about card factory is irrelevant really, i was mearly pointing out that the club had financially gone tits up under his management...so ultimately, the financial loss should have been taken by him. As it would in the normal business world. UNLESS, of course, he could have found buyers willing to buy (/pay his debt) and then INVEST in the club.
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wigster
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Post by wigster on Apr 10, 2021 14:17:16 GMT 1
FWIW .... I think Dean Hoyle has messed up. Huge mistakes have sadly been made. Certainly for me his legacy is tainted. Nice bloke? .... Totally . Done our legs? .... Totally. UTT For me what's tainted Huddersfield Town isn't DH or even PH it's the shitty expectant 'so called' supporters who bleat on endlessly about money that isn't theirs! 1. If we're on about people being "expectant" how do you think the Hoyle/Wagner "we're only a little club that is pathetically grateful to be allowed in the Premier League but don't worry, we'll soon be gone " attitude affected the club's performance in those two years at the top table ? That second season in particular we got exactly what our approach deserved. It was disorganised, accepting,"expectant" massively over humble and rather pathetic. 2. You miss the point - most supporters accept that it it was Hoyle's money that he spent - most supporters don't say that he's not allowed to take it back (goodness me if he's clever enough to agree that infamous deal with Hodgkinson he will certainly have put in cast-iron guarantees when he lent Town the money initially). It's the rate and timing at which he's getting paid back; it's the absolutely catastrophic way that that money ("which I never expect to see back")was totally wasted on all the players we all know about ; it's the appalling way that the Premier league legacy has not only disappeared so very rapidly, but the implications from the club's statement and actions seem to be that we have no money left; it's that latest podcast thing he did where there didn't seem to be an ounce of regret or self-examination - it was the fault of Wagner/Diakhaby/the agents/the players etc etc ; it was what seemed to be a total lack of planning - short-term or long-term after we'd got promoted; it's the things that were promised (training facilities,shares etc) that never came about, alleged NDAs mean we'll never know what happenened at our club but the facts are that after 2 years of Premier League football we are desperately fighting against relegation to Division 1 - again - with a squad that most supporters think is, politely put, bloody weak and with more long-term signings - Ward/Holmes etc - that fill many of us with disappointment. That is what has tainted Huddersfield Town - that is why some supporters "bleat on endlessly" - we get reminded of the state of our club endlessly.
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Apr 10, 2021 14:19:14 GMT 1
Steve, it's an opinion that someone is giving on an online forum designed for people to give and discuss their opinions. You clearly have a different opinion. Care to share it? Or are you just gonna make snide, childish comments at people whose opinion is different to yours. I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! Why are they probably wrong? Or is it just your opinion that they are probably wrong? Do you have facts to back up your adult corrective comments? Surely you can't correct someone unless you have the facts? Otherwise you're just giving your opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong, but then you don't give any substance to your opinion. So it's a baseless / factless opinion, which is no better than anyone else's basesless / factless opinion. Not looking to pick a quarrel with you, just keep to understand your opinion and why it's your opinion
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Apr 10, 2021 14:19:15 GMT 1
Steve, it's an opinion that someone is giving on an online forum designed for people to give and discuss their opinions. You clearly have a different opinion. Care to share it? Or are you just gonna make snide, childish comments at people whose opinion is different to yours. I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! But it is just an opinion. As valid - no more and no less - than yours.
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Post by willo on Apr 10, 2021 14:29:13 GMT 1
Bottom line is the buck starts & ends with the boss. Dean was the boss, he employed some people who went on to make a catalogue of errors resulting in us being where we are now but it was his decision, choice, however you want to put it to bring these characters in same as it was his decision to bring David Wagner in. Rough with the smooth & all that. For all Phil’s faults & mistakes (and there’s been a fair few), he’s been somewhat hamstrung since day 1.
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Post by ritchie on Apr 10, 2021 14:33:14 GMT 1
All those who say “dean hoyle never expected to get it back, but saw the opportunity to after the PL, so it was his right to take it back and shouldn’t be criticised for it” Its complete rubbish. This was only true at the beginning of both PL seasons.... They were the time for him to withdraw the money owed - he didn’t - he gambled it. And lost. He should take responsibility for that, because taking the parachute money from the club is completely unethical when he was the one who signed those deals. Deals making us dependent on that money to transition back from the situation he had created healthily. As much as we all loved him shooting his load on players at the time, it was the wrong decision. As norwich have shown, the way to do it was invest as a championship club but plan as a PL club. We did the opposite Of course, Dean hoyle is within his right to get his money back, but in doing so should absolutely expect to incur criticism. Because we as fans expect owners to have the best interests of the club from the minute they get involved until after they leave. What is stooping even lower is telling people DH was unethical when you have inadequate factual knowledge or right to do so! It's an opinion, not sure what "factual knowledge" im lacking. In my opinion using funds that are set up to "parachute" a club back safely into the championship (which we are not, due to chronic underinvestment), to service debts you personally accumulated IS unethical.
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Post by Detective Boyle on Apr 10, 2021 14:34:06 GMT 1
I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! But it is just an opinion. As valid - no more and no less - than yours. Absolutely. And I would even say - based on current evidence - it’s more probable than his opinion (which he is wholly entitled to)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 14:42:03 GMT 1
I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! Why are they probably wrong? Or is it just your opinion that they are probably wrong? Do you have facts to back up your adult corrective comments? Surely you can't correct someone unless you have the facts? Otherwise you're just giving your opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong, but then you don't give any substance to your opinion. So it's a baseless / factless opinion, which is no better than anyone else's basesless / factless opinion. Not looking to pick a quarrel with you, just keep to understand your opinion and why it's your opinion I couldn't give damn how people want to packeage things up to convince themselves and others that they are justyfied in their bleating. I like to keep perspective, make my own judgments & not follow the easy, common & negative interpretations. The only thing that will stop me attending when we next can is concern that the bleating will continue in the stadium, iv'e had enough of it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 14:45:46 GMT 1
What is stooping even lower is telling people DH was unethical when you have inadequate factual knowledge or right to do so! It's an opinion, not sure what "factual knowledge" im lacking. In my opinion using funds that are set up to "parachute" a club back safely into the championship (which we are not, due to chronic underinvestment), to service debts you personally accumulated IS unethical. Ritchie - save your breath mate. Steve will take you to places where it is hard to remember your own name and you will wonder how you got there! 🤣
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 14:48:07 GMT 1
I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! But it is just an opinion. As valid - no more and no less - than yours. The probaliltiy is that of the so called fact presented (given it to someone who doesn’t and never did have the funds to make us competitive, and will see us in league 1 in the not too distant future) there will be incorrect things there! It's nothing to do with opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 14:49:50 GMT 1
I'm just going to make adult corrective comments when people's opinions are presented as facts that are probably wrong! But it is just an opinion. As valid - no more and no less - than yours. It was presented as facts not opinion!
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Apr 10, 2021 14:54:40 GMT 1
Why are they probably wrong? Or is it just your opinion that they are probably wrong? Do you have facts to back up your adult corrective comments? Surely you can't correct someone unless you have the facts? Otherwise you're just giving your opinion that someone else's opinion is wrong, but then you don't give any substance to your opinion. So it's a baseless / factless opinion, which is no better than anyone else's basesless / factless opinion. Not looking to pick a quarrel with you, just keep to understand your opinion and why it's your opinion I couldn't give damn how people want to packeage things up to convince themselves and others that they are justyfied in their bleating. I like to keep perspective, make my own judgments & not follow the easy, common & negative interpretations. The only thing that will stop me attending when we next can is concern that the bleating will continue in the stadium, iv'e had enough of it! So you actually have no facts whatsoever, just baseless, factless opinions by which you make your own judgements.....just like pretty much every other single poster on here.....So you my friend are exactly the same as the rest of us. However, you never post your opinions or reasons for your opinions. You never discuss others opinions with them, just correct them, even though you have no knowledge or facts to correct them with I'm calling you out as a wind up merchant. Hope you enjoyed the Leeds match
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