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Post by jonny5 on Jun 8, 2022 9:33:23 GMT 1
A tad harsh on fans but they were lording it when splashing stupid cash on players like Butterfield. I guess you simply can't have your cake and eat it but I'd not want to see them go out of business. If they started again they'd rise through the leagues rapidly which takes one promotion out of the equation for those leagues, it's lose / lose, but clubs have to start playing fair.
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Post by Mastercracker on Jun 8, 2022 9:49:27 GMT 1
A tad harsh on fans but they were lording it when splashing stupid cash on players like Butterfield.I guess you simply can't have your cake and eat it but I'd not want to see them go out of business. If they started again they'd rise through the leagues rapidly which takes one promotion out of the equation for those leagues, it's lose / lose, but clubs have to start playing fair. Exactly that. Another set of arrogant midlands tossers who lorded it up whilst spaffing the cash to "get back to where we belong". Now its the EFL's fault and they are victims. Full sympathy for Bury who go out of business cos their owners a crook and the fans haven't acted like bellends, none for Derby whatsoever. If it happens AFC Derby will be back in the champ inside 10 years anyway.
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Post by artysid on Jun 8, 2022 9:51:30 GMT 1
TBF to their fans, most of them wanted us to beat Forest.
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Post by jonny5 on Jun 8, 2022 9:54:43 GMT 1
It's a tough one but back in the day of Rubery, we enjoyed splashing the cash and ended up in a shitty situation, ultimately we are human beings and enjoy the ride if it looks like good times are ahead but then look to blame someone when it goes pete tong.
Tough on fans - the EFL have to come up with a better way of solving this conundrum. There will always be slippery ones who try to hide their indiscretions.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 8, 2022 9:58:11 GMT 1
Mel Morris could resolve everything today if he wanted. Sadly, too many owners think they can run clubs into millions of pounds of debt whilst making sure not to lose a single penny themselves. They leave behind a real mess that others need to fix whilst the fans see funds draining away or lose all assets to repay historic debt. This. Whether you have sympathy with their fans or not, people shouldn't be allowed to leave a trail of havoc, or cheat vs those who are running their clubs properly without consequence.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 8, 2022 9:59:19 GMT 1
The PL have had a massive part to play in the financial situation for many EFL clubs. You should still always play by the rules, but the incentives make some clubs lose their heads…
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Post by Toxic Ted on Jun 8, 2022 10:03:41 GMT 1
The PL have had a massive part to play in the financial situation for many EFL clubs. You should still always play by the rules, but the incentives make some clubs lose their heads… I disagree. That’s like saying the incentives to rob a bank are to blame for people actually robbing banks. Owners should be able to gift money but not loan it long term. The current situation sees every club living beyond its means and the entire pyramid dependent on a few ego driven millionaires.
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Jun 8, 2022 10:17:26 GMT 1
It's a tough one but back in the day of Rubery, we enjoyed splashing the cash and ended up in a shitty situation, ultimately we are human beings and enjoy the ride if it looks like good times are ahead but then look to blame someone when it goes pete tong. Tough on fans - the EFL have to come up with a better way of solving this conundrum. There will always be slippery ones who try to hide their indiscretions. Very true. The financial mess that is foo ball needs sorting, but clubs and their fans were around long before the greedy league soiled the game.
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Post by Toxic Ted on Jun 8, 2022 10:26:42 GMT 1
Obviously, we’ve seen it first hand ourselves on both sides.
Prior to administration we sold ‘life memberships’ if I recall correctly. They were a way to get cash in short term even though it would damage longterm revenues. Once we were back in our feet these weren’t honoured so the fans lost out.
5 years later, DH starts selling season tickets on the cheap. Great! We all think. Until we learn that part of the £60m debt we owe him is a direct result of this policy. He lauds it up in the media and quietly slips us a bill once we’re out of the spotlight. Again, a short term measure with longterm consequences for the club. Only, the fans never hit their money back which they spent in 2004 as it was ‘under the previous regime’. The Chairman? Obviously, he’ll do all he can to get his money back even though it scuppers the subsequent regime.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Jun 8, 2022 10:42:36 GMT 1
The EFL should take deposits from the owners. Minimum £10m and they can put any number they want into an escrow account controlled and never to be spent by the EFL. If a club’s debt goes past their deposit amount , the club is forfeited and must be sold. The deposit covers any debts and everyone moves on.
Sounded great to me in theory, but I imagine it’s impossible to enforce.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 10:48:19 GMT 1
Obviously, we’ve seen it first hand ourselves on both sides. Prior to administration we sold ‘life memberships’ if I recall correctly. They were a way to get cash in short term even though it would damage longterm revenues. Once we were back in our feet these weren’t honoured so the fans lost out. 5 years later, DH starts selling season tickets on the cheap. Great! We all think. Until we learn that part of the £60m debt we owe him is a direct result of this policy. He lauds it up in the media and quietly slips us a bill once we’re out of the spotlight. Again, a short term measure with longterm consequences for the club. Only, the fans never hit their money back which they spent in 2004 as it was ‘under the previous regime’. The Chairman? Obviously, he’ll do all he can to get his money back even though it scuppers the subsequent regime. I'm intrigued to hear how many times you've given away 20% of your life savings to the person you've sold a major share of your business to? Or if your really loaded, when did you gift 1 million never mind 60? Do you offer to pay extra for season tickets & organise thousands of others to do so the debt doesn't exist? Do you want fewer people to attend matches? I'm really struggling to understand your position on the things you refer to, but I am a dumb blond so it could be my fault.
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Post by Toxic Ted on Jun 8, 2022 10:49:50 GMT 1
Obviously, we’ve seen it first hand ourselves on both sides. Prior to administration we sold ‘life memberships’ if I recall correctly. They were a way to get cash in short term even though it would damage longterm revenues. Once we were back in our feet these weren’t honoured so the fans lost out. 5 years later, DH starts selling season tickets on the cheap. Great! We all think. Until we learn that part of the £60m debt we owe him is a direct result of this policy. He lauds it up in the media and quietly slips us a bill once we’re out of the spotlight. Again, a short term measure with longterm consequences for the club. Only, the fans never hit their money back which they spent in 2004 as it was ‘under the previous regime’. The Chairman? Obviously, he’ll do all he can to get his money back even though it scuppers the subsequent regime. I'm intrigued to hear how many times you've given away 20% of your life savings to the person you've sold a major share of your business to? Or if your really loaded, when did you gift 1 million never mind 60? Do you offer to pay extra for season tickets & organise thousands of others to do so the debt doesn't exist? Do you want fewer people to attend matches? I'm really struggling to understand your position on the things you refer to, but I am a dumb blond so it could be my fault. You’re probably right. Try reading it again and asking specific, not rhetorical, questions.
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Post by joburgjon on Jun 8, 2022 12:07:07 GMT 1
I hope they get sorted as a lad I know can't sign scholarship forms until it's all sorted out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 14:03:13 GMT 1
I'm intrigued to hear how many times you've given away 20% of your life savings to the person you've sold a major share of your business to? Or if your really loaded, when did you gift 1 million never mind 60? Do you offer to pay extra for season tickets & organise thousands of others to do so the debt doesn't exist? Do you want fewer people to attend matches? I'm really struggling to understand your position on the things you refer to, but I am a dumb blond so it could be my fault. You’re probably right. Try reading it again and asking specific, not rhetorical, questions. Teddy & cot spring to mind. Have nice day.
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Post by Toxic Ted on Jun 8, 2022 14:15:23 GMT 1
You’re probably right. Try reading it again and asking specific, not rhetorical, questions. Teddy & cot spring to mind. Have nice day. Have a lovely day yourself. Up the Town
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jun 8, 2022 15:56:31 GMT 1
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Post by ball on Jun 8, 2022 16:51:02 GMT 1
Mel Morris could resolve everything today if he wanted. Sadly, too many owners think they can run clubs into millions of pounds of debt whilst making sure not to lose a single penny themselves. They leave behind a real mess that others need to fix whilst the fans see funds draining away or lose all assets to repay historic debt. This. Whether you have sympathy with their fans or not, people shouldn't be allowed to leave a trail of havoc, or cheat vs those who are running their clubs properly without consequence. Worrying trend starting to show now a lot of these people interested in owning clubs are doing so to protect capital by writing it as debt into clubs, some even charging interest on top of it. Needs regulating better urgently
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Post by ACW on Jun 10, 2022 21:02:57 GMT 1
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Post by mrg on Jun 10, 2022 22:52:51 GMT 1
Is this the bit where Mike Ashley gets the administrators to pay him to buy the debt and then writes it all off and then, hey presto, he ownes a football club with a load of fans for nothing.
If that doesn't happen it looks like they'll be liquidated in around 2 weeks. They can't say they haven't had enough time to sort it out, it's been 10 frigging months. I've moved country in a pandemic in that time. Not the same I know, but it really is now or never. Cry me a river. I know it's harsh and I know some Derby fans. The day of reckoning for football is on us and because town run it right I think we might be on the right side of it.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jun 10, 2022 23:55:02 GMT 1
Very frustrating if you're a Derby fan and imagine how we'd feel if in the same situation. The administrators have a lot to answer for here by seemingly excluding/ignoring other bids in favour of Kirchner.
Mike Ashley might not be a popular choice but one thing's for sure is he's got the brass to get then out of the shit, which has to better than going to the wall.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 11, 2022 0:07:47 GMT 1
It probably says a lot about where football is and what football fans expect that the idea of having an owner like Mike Ashley is so unpopular, even ridiculed. He is so clueless and 'bad' he actually tries to run a club on its own financial merits.. ie you only spend what you actually have. haver you ever heard of anything so absurd!
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jun 11, 2022 8:30:55 GMT 1
Rumours around are that the administrators won't even talk to Ashley. General thought is that he has no intention of paying the 25% of unsecured debtors required to avoid a further 15 point penalty at the start of next season. Suggestions that Rooney paid the wage bill for May. Quantuma don't appear to be coming out of this at all well either.
Don't like to say "I told you so" but when Kirchner came out and made the comment that he would pay 35% in 3 years, rather than the 25% now, alarm bells immediately started ringing for me. If he couldn't afford the 25% now, how on earth was he going to find 35% in 3 years time?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 8:56:59 GMT 1
If this was a different club, say Burton for example, they'd have been liquidated already.
How many chances do Derby get? Time to let the axe fall and be done with it.
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leroy212
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Post by leroy212 on Jun 11, 2022 9:18:10 GMT 1
Has to be said the administrators don't seem to urgent in trying to save the club. As said above seem to only want to deal with chris kirchner
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 10:05:45 GMT 1
Has to be said the administrators don't seem to urgent in trying to save the club. As said above seem to only want to deal with chris kirchner Administrators earn their money with impunity, as long as they tick acceptable boxes, whether the business is sold successfully or fails while in their hands.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jun 11, 2022 10:17:19 GMT 1
Very frustrating if you're a Derby fan and imagine how we'd feel if in the same situation. The administrators have a lot to answer for here by seemingly excluding/ignoring other bids in favour of Kirchner. Mike Ashley might not be a popular choice but one thing's for sure is he's got the brass to get then out of the shit, which has to better than going to the wall. His price/value will have gone down
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Post by tockyterrier on Jun 11, 2022 15:27:48 GMT 1
It probably says a lot about where football is and what football fans expect that the idea of having an owner like Mike Ashley is so unpopular, even ridiculed. He is so clueless and 'bad' he actually tries to run a club on its own financial merits.. ie you only spend what you actually have. haver you ever heard of anything so absurd! To be fair, the vast majority on here been giving grief to PH based on the fact he didnt have the money to throw at us that DH did.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 11, 2022 16:12:34 GMT 1
Has to be said the administrators don't seem to urgent in trying to save the club. As said above seem to only want to deal with chris kirchner Administrators earn their money with impunity, as long as they tick acceptable boxes, whether the business is sold successfully or fails while in their hands. I've no idea of the regulation, but it smacks of an industry where money will disappear and shady outfits won't act in the best of the business, creditors, employees, etc. Isn't there talk of extortionate fees in this cae?
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Post by bluestripe on Jun 11, 2022 16:17:07 GMT 1
It probably says a lot about where football is and what football fans expect that the idea of having an owner like Mike Ashley is so unpopular, even ridiculed. He is so clueless and 'bad' he actually tries to run a club on its own financial merits.. ie you only spend what you actually have. haver you ever heard of anything so absurd! To be fair, the vast majority on here been giving grief to PH based on the fact he didnt have the money to throw at us that DH did. ...as a loan to be repaid.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 17:01:42 GMT 1
Administrators earn their money with impunity, as long as they tick acceptable boxes, whether the business is sold successfully or fails while in their hands. I've no idea of the regulation, but it smacks of an industry where money will disappear and shady outfits won't act in the best of the business, creditors, employees, etc. Isn't there talk of extortionate fees in this cae? I've seen every pound drained from assets of a merely short-term struggling business due to thinking going into administration might help, when in reality, due to the fees charged, no-one benefited except the administrator with not a penny paid to creditors etc. The worst financial scavengers I have ever seen due to exorbitant fees from business that cannot do anything about it once in their clutches.
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