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Post by hueypnewton on Jul 17, 2021 13:31:42 GMT 1
Me gripe here bud Remove the terminally ill. It's not right tbh I wrote that to emphasize (for those that didn't know) the fact that we were banning a poster who only has a short time to live. Whether I was right or wrong matters less than the despicable decision (imo) to deny the bloke a chance to spend his last few weeks/months discussing/debating/arguing the ways of the world with his fellow Town supporters. I could edit the question if it was possible but I don't think it can be done, as I've asked this question before and an admin didn't know how to. The question should be, why would a guy with only a few weeks to live, spend that time targeting minorities in an offensive way, on a public forum? If he said those things to a total stranger on the street, there would likely be consequences, yet because the guy has an illness, it excuses it? Is that really how he wishes to be remembered or spend his last weeks, as a bully? |
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Post by morleyterrier on Jul 17, 2021 14:41:14 GMT 1
We are heading towards a society where freedom of speech is not allowed and opinions are only allowed if they are 'compliant'.
These words here are just a couple of lines on a forum, but trust me, the ramifications of this are far reaching and should not be welcomed by anybody.
Freedom of speech and being able to freely air views and opinions are an important part of a healthy democratic society.
Sadly, we are rapidly heading away from this.
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Niggled
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by Niggled on Jul 17, 2021 14:49:04 GMT 1
I wrote that to emphasize (for those that didn't know) the fact that we were banning a poster who only has a short time to live. Whether I was right or wrong matters less than the despicable decision (imo) to deny the bloke a chance to spend his last few weeks/months discussing/debating/arguing the ways of the world with his fellow Town supporters. I could edit the question if it was possible but I don't think it can be done, as I've asked this question before and an admin didn't know how to. The question should be, why would a guy with only a few weeks to live, spend that time targeting minorities in an offensive way, on a public forum? If he said those things to a total stranger on the street, there would likely be consequences, yet because the guy has an illness, it excuses it? Is that really how he wishes to be remembered or spend his last weeks, as a bully? How the fuck is it bullying ? , if you don't like what he says block his posts, don't read it if it upsets you . You don't have to debate withhim. |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 15:31:59 GMT 1
We are heading towards a society where freedom of speech is not allowed and opinions are only allowed if they are 'compliant'. These words here are just a couple of lines on a forum, but trust me, the ramifications of this are far reaching and should not be welcomed by anybody. Freedom of speech and being able to freely air views and opinions are an important part of a healthy democratic society. Sadly, we are rapidly heading away from this. Well said. I find it ridiculous that we can censor people like Abu Hamza, and all just because they preach a little bit of hate every now and again. I really dread to think where we are headed as a society when someone who would happily see us all reduced to a pile of rotting corpses isn't allowed to shout about it in public. It stinks. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 17, 2021 15:33:42 GMT 1
We are heading towards a society where freedom of speech is not allowed and opinions are only allowed if they are 'compliant'. These words here are just a couple of lines on a forum, but trust me, the ramifications of this are far reaching and should not be welcomed by anybody. Freedom of speech and being able to freely air views and opinions are an important part of a healthy democratic society. Sadly, we are rapidly heading away from this. Well said. I find it ridiculous that we can censor people like Abu Hamza, and all just because they preach a little bit of hate every now and again. I really dread to think where we are headed as a society when someone who would happily see us all reduced to a pile of rotting corpses isn't allowed to shout about it in public. It stinks. Well said champers |
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Post by morleyterrier on Jul 17, 2021 16:27:04 GMT 1
We are heading towards a society where freedom of speech is not allowed and opinions are only allowed if they are 'compliant'. These words here are just a couple of lines on a forum, but trust me, the ramifications of this are far reaching and should not be welcomed by anybody. Freedom of speech and being able to freely air views and opinions are an important part of a healthy democratic society. Sadly, we are rapidly heading away from this. Well said. I find it ridiculous that we can censor people like Abu Hamza, and all just because they preach a little bit of hate every now and again. I really dread to think where we are headed as a society when someone who would happily see us all reduced to a pile of rotting corpses isn't allowed to shout about it in public. It stinks. Blah blah blah |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 16:34:24 GMT 1
Well said. I find it ridiculous that we can censor people like Abu Hamza, and all just because they preach a little bit of hate every now and again. I really dread to think where we are headed as a society when someone who would happily see us all reduced to a pile of rotting corpses isn't allowed to shout about it in public. It stinks. Blah blah blah Why blah, blah, blah. I fully agree with you. I actually think we should go further. Maybe get a load of spectators to do Joey Deacon impressions at the next Paralympics meet, because just like you I'm sick of having to be "compliant". They're taking away me rights guvnor! |
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Post by morleyterrier on Jul 17, 2021 16:40:52 GMT 1
Why blah, blah, blah. I fully agree with you. I actually think we should go further. Maybe get a load of spectators to do Joey Deacon impressions at the next Paralympics meet, because just like you I'm sick of having to be "compliant". They're taking away me rights guvnor! For fucks sake, are you for real?. Do you live on planet earth posting this shit?. The Countries gone mad. |
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Post by htfctx on Jul 17, 2021 16:43:33 GMT 1
Oti Post
Homosexuality is deviant, i think it a poor lifestyle choice, i think its unhealthy, but i have no problem with grown men carrying out their sexual perversions (yes, another perfectly legitimate word that your tiny brain with struggle with) in the privacy of their own homes.
de·vi·ant
/ˈdēvēənt/
adjective
departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior.
From Forum rules
If you commit a major offence, you will receive a straight red card - resulting in a suspension of one calendar month. Any infringement following a major red card will result in a lifetime suspension.
Card Sanction
1st Yellow Warning level increased to 50%
2nd Yellow Warning level increased to 100% – 1 week suspension
4th Yellow 1 month suspension
6th Yellow Lifetime suspension
1st Red 1 month suspension
Any subsequent card
Lifetime suspension
Straight Red Card
Hate of faith - race - sexual persuasion or any other protected characteristic
Posts or links of any kind that contain overt hatred of any race, faith, or sexual group
Am I missing something? Did Oti serve a one month ban prior to a lifetime ban?
If the forum rules are adhered to, when was the 1st ban of one month applied to Oti?
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 16:53:33 GMT 1
Why blah, blah, blah. I fully agree with you. I actually think we should go further. Maybe get a load of spectators to do Joey Deacon impressions at the next Paralympics meet, because just like you I'm sick of having to be "compliant". They're taking away me rights guvnor! For fucks sake, are you for real?. Do you live on planet earth posting this shit?. The Countries gone mad. I tore your paper-thin argument to shreds to the point you came back with "blah, blah, blah"....If that bothers you so badly then maybe think before you post in future. There are very good reasons you can't just say whatever you want without consequence, and the two ludicrous examples I put out there should be enough to explain why. It's nothing to do with being "compliant". |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 16:54:50 GMT 1
Oti Post Homosexuality is deviant, i think it a poor lifestyle choice, i think its unhealthy, but i have no problem with grown men carrying out their sexual perversions (yes, another perfectly legitimate word that your tiny brain with struggle with) in the privacy of their own homes. de·vi·ant /ˈdēvēənt/ adjective departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior. From Forum rules If you commit a major offence, you will receive a straight red card - resulting in a suspension of one calendar month. Any infringement following a major red card will result in a lifetime suspension. Card Sanction 1st Yellow Warning level increased to 50% 2nd Yellow Warning level increased to 100% – 1 week suspension 4th Yellow 1 month suspension 6th Yellow Lifetime suspension 1st Red 1 month suspension Any subsequent card Lifetime suspension Straight Red Card Hate of faith - race - sexual persuasion or any other protected characteristic Posts or links of any kind that contain overt hatred of any race, faith, or sexual group Am I missing something? Did Oti serve a one month ban prior to a lifetime ban? If the forum rules are adhered to, when was the 1st ban of one month applied to Oti? 12th March. Clearly a final warning. Fairly sure he served a full months ban too, though I can't confirm that. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Jul 17, 2021 17:01:10 GMT 1
For fucks sake, are you for real?. Do you live on planet earth posting this shit?. The Countries gone mad. I tore your paper-thin argument to shreds to the point you came back with "blah, blah, blah"....If that bothers you so badly then maybe think before you post in future. There are very good reasons you can't just say whatever you want without consequence, and the two ludicrous examples I put out there should be enough to explain why. It's nothing to do with being "compliant". Champers, I really didn't want to do this with a Human being of your limited literary limitations but you have given me no option, Think about this, you bang on about this and that and berate those that believe in free speech. So tell me this, who is the judge and jury that says your views or mine or anybody else's for that matter are right?. Is it you Champers that decides?. It must be mustn't it or the alternative is free speech?. Think about what I am saying here before your next flawed retort. I don't know why I bother. |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jul 17, 2021 17:03:28 GMT 1
Oti Post Homosexuality is deviant, i think it a poor lifestyle choice, i think its unhealthy, but i have no problem with grown men carrying out their sexual perversions (yes, another perfectly legitimate word that your tiny brain with struggle with) in the privacy of their own homes. de·vi·ant /ˈdēvēənt/ adjective departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior. From Forum rules If you commit a major offence, you will receive a straight red card - resulting in a suspension of one calendar month. Any infringement following a major red card will result in a lifetime suspension. Card Sanction 1st Yellow Warning level increased to 50% 2nd Yellow Warning level increased to 100% – 1 week suspension 4th Yellow 1 month suspension 6th Yellow Lifetime suspension 1st Red 1 month suspension Any subsequent card Lifetime suspension Straight Red Card Hate of faith - race - sexual persuasion or any other protected characteristic Posts or links of any kind that contain overt hatred of any race, faith, or sexual group Am I missing something? Did Oti serve a one month ban prior to a lifetime ban? If the forum rules are adhered to, when was the 1st ban of one month applied to Oti? I’ve answered this same post on the other thread. |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 17:04:51 GMT 1
I tore your paper-thin argument to shreds to the point you came back with "blah, blah, blah"....If that bothers you so badly then maybe think before you post in future. There are very good reasons you can't just say whatever you want without consequence, and the two ludicrous examples I put out there should be enough to explain why. It's nothing to do with being "compliant". Champers, I really didn't want to do this with a Human being of your limited literary limitations but you have given me no option, Think about this, you bang on about this and that and berate those that believe in free speech. So tell me this, who is the judge and jury that says your views or mine or anybody else's for that matter are right?. Is it you Champers that decides?. It must be mustn't it or the alternative is free speech?. Think about what I am saying here before your next flawed retort. I don't know why I bother. Ffs man, you've got me in absolute stitches here 😂 |
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Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,422
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Post by Champers on Jul 17, 2021 17:15:25 GMT 1
I tore your paper-thin argument to shreds to the point you came back with "blah, blah, blah"....If that bothers you so badly then maybe think before you post in future. There are very good reasons you can't just say whatever you want without consequence, and the two ludicrous examples I put out there should be enough to explain why. It's nothing to do with being "compliant". Champers, I really didn't want to do this with a Human being of your limited literary limitations but you have given me no option, Think about this, you bang on about this and that and berate those that believe in free speech. So tell me this, who is the judge and jury that says your views or mine or anybody else's for that matter are right?. Is it you Champers that decides?. It must be mustn't it or the alternative is free speech?. Think about what I am saying here before your next flawed retort. I don't know why I bother. Right, I'll try answer this as seriously as I can... Freedom of speech exists, but only to an extent as you can't say whatever you like without consequences being applied if you overstep the mark of acceptability. Don't shoot the messenger though, as none of that is my fault, it's just the way it is. You're welcome to form any opinion on any subject you like, but if you take that opinion into the public domain, then projecting those opinions could mean anything that may be deemed to deliberately cause offence to others would see you fall foul of the law. Again, not my fault, I'm just trying to break it down so you can see why your initial post was quite wrong. I'm not sure why you think this is anything to do with me though? I'm merely pointing out the facts of the matter (which just for further clarity, I didnt create) |
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Post by sabailand on Jul 17, 2021 17:47:46 GMT 1
Freedom of speech is something in where a person might have a genuine opinion that might be unsavory to some, i defend that to the hilt. What freedom of speech isnt is unprovoked verbally abusing/insulting/ and generally being nasty, intentionally upsetting a person just for the sake of it.
Put it this way, if some stranger walked up to your wife/girlfriend/mum/dad/child and shouted obsenities in their face you wouldnt say 'well thats freedom of speech', you`d probably just want to kick they`re head in.
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Post by DATM Travel Agent on Jul 17, 2021 23:35:54 GMT 1
Why is his illness relevant to whether or not his ban was justified?
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Post by ringdisco on Jul 17, 2021 23:38:21 GMT 1
Champers, I really didn't want to do this with a Human being of your limited literary limitations but you have given me no option, Think about this, you bang on about this and that and berate those that believe in free speech. So tell me this, who is the judge and jury that says your views or mine or anybody else's for that matter are right?. Is it you Champers that decides?. It must be mustn't it or the alternative is free speech?. Think about what I am saying here before your next flawed retort. I don't know why I bother. Ffs man, you've got me in absolute stitches here 😂 Limited limitations. Yeah, you should definitely be censored, Morley. |
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Post by BlueValour on Jul 18, 2021 1:15:27 GMT 1
Are we going to get a vote on life time bans though Grim. Do I need to start a poll on that? So far as I know lifetime bans have always been a possible sanction on this forum. There are several posters who have been banned for life. I'm not aware of any social media platform that doesn't have such a possible consequence for habitual rule breakers. If you can show us a model that works in practice that doesn't have a lifetime ban, I'm happy to discuss it with the other admins, but I'm pretty certain none exist that are workable. There has to come a time when enough is enough. Delighted to show you another model that works. I happen to be an admin on Wikipedia (with an entirely different username!). We start off with warnings and then progress through escalating blocks. If all fails then, yes, an indefinite block is imposed but in general the escalating blocks work. Read all about them at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy . |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 18, 2021 3:48:32 GMT 1
So far as I know lifetime bans have always been a possible sanction on this forum. There are several posters who have been banned for life. I'm not aware of any social media platform that doesn't have such a possible consequence for habitual rule breakers. If you can show us a model that works in practice that doesn't have a lifetime ban, I'm happy to discuss it with the other admins, but I'm pretty certain none exist that are workable. There has to come a time when enough is enough. Delighted to show you another model that works. I happen to be an admin on Wikipedia (with an entirely different username!). We start off with warnings and then progress through escalating blocks. If all fails then, yes, an indefinite block is imposed but in general the escalating blocks work. Read all about them at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy . So, warnings, a series of bans that increase in time and ultimately a permanent ban. How is that any different to the process on this site? |
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Post by dugnet on Jul 18, 2021 7:12:23 GMT 1
I find this concern about free speech a bit odd. Surely free speech hasn't been censored in this case? Isn't the case that the views expressed are deemed to have infringed the rules, which we are all aware of, of this board and as such a sanction has been applied?
If you wish to express your views freely don't be surprised if some people challenge them. Free speech isn't about, to quote the Harry Enfield professional Yorkshireman character George Whitebread;" I'll say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say"!
The really depressing thing is that among some reasoned debate seems impossible. There are a number of folk who can't seem to take their position being challenged and resort to abuse. A reflection on a society where you can readily express a view and argue?
I also can't help but think that this is a sideshow until we have some competitive football to debate. I am sure similar behaviours will prevail among some on here as soon as we have kicked a ball in anger.
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Post by detox on Jul 18, 2021 7:32:36 GMT 1
I think there's a difference in expressing general opinions which might be controversial,antagonistic and provocative, and directing those same opinions at individuals on this forum.
As far as I am aware Oti hasn't targetted anyone on this forum with the comments that have upset the Admins?
Everyone has different opinions on stuff (blimey this forum would be boring were that not the case),but there is a difference between just stating opinions and actually targetting other users.
The latter should invoke a ban because that's bullying, but the former surely isn't?
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Post by Mecha Corte on Jul 18, 2021 8:09:11 GMT 1
Delighted to show you another model that works. I happen to be an admin on Wikipedia (with an entirely different username!). We start off with warnings and then progress through escalating blocks. If all fails then, yes, an indefinite block is imposed but in general the escalating blocks work. Read all about them at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy . So, warnings, a series of bans that increase in time and ultimately a permanent ban. How is that any different to the process on this site? I wonder if the admins on other sites keep poking the person that gets banned with a sharp stick, until they bite to such an extent that they will take legal action against it ? If they do I’m pretty confident that after the ban has been issued they wouldn’t continue to keep adding likes to any supporting posts on the matter. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 18, 2021 8:14:30 GMT 1
So, warnings, a series of bans that increase in time and ultimately a permanent ban. How is that any different to the process on this site? I wonder if the admins on other sites keep poking the person that gets banned with a sharp stick, until they bite to such an extent that they will take legal action against it ? If they do I’m pretty confident that after the ban has been issued they wouldn’t continue to keep adding likes to any supporting posts on the matter. "He made him post homophobic content, m'lud" Is that your case for the defence? And when I'm being attacked for this situation despite it having been made clear that I recused myself from the decision making process you think I'm not going to express thanks to those who seem to understand the situation? |
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Niggled
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 590
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Post by Niggled on Jul 18, 2021 8:18:37 GMT 1
59% of members who have voted don't agree with the admins.
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Post by Mecha Corte on Jul 18, 2021 8:35:23 GMT 1
I wonder if the admins on other sites keep poking the person that gets banned with a sharp stick, until they bite to such an extent that they will take legal action against it ? If they do I’m pretty confident that after the ban has been issued they wouldn’t continue to keep adding likes to any supporting posts on the matter. "He made him post homophobic content, m'lud" Is that your case for the defence? And when I'm being attacked for this situation despite it having been made clear that I recused myself from the decision making process you think I'm not going to express thanks to those who seem to understand the situation? No, that’s your feeble twist on the reality to imply that my view is weak as piss. Very clever, I’m sure, so going by your logic Otium made you call him a “c***” in the same thread, I take it you will now see your role as a neutral admin as compromised and untenable. I haven’t attacked you for this situation I’ve merely pointed out it doesn’t sit right to keep commenting on threads about someone who got a lifetime ban following a long row with you where you not only called him a “c***” but repeatedly made allegations against him until he threatened to take legal action against you if it continued. I’ve recently been on the receiving end of you being a snidey, obnoxious piece of work when I’ve dared to take an opposing viewpoint, you’re a bully who claims to oppose bullying. I won’t be replying to you again as long as you remain an admin. because I certainly didn’t agree with Otium all the time, far from it but I think he had you sussed. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jul 18, 2021 8:38:40 GMT 1
"He made him post homophobic content, m'lud" Is that your case for the defence? And when I'm being attacked for this situation despite it having been made clear that I recused myself from the decision making process you think I'm not going to express thanks to those who seem to understand the situation? No, that’s your feeble twist on the reality to imply that my view is weak as piss. Very clever, I’m sure, so going by your logic Otium made you call him a “c***” in the same thread, I take it you will now see your role as a neutral admin as compromised and untenable. I haven’t attacked you for this situation I’ve merely pointed out it doesn’t sit right to keep commenting on threads about someone who got a lifetime ban following a long row with you where you not only called him a “c***” but repeatedly made allegations against him until he threatened to take legal action against you if it continued. I’ve recently been on the receiving end of you being a snidey, obnoxious piece of work when I’ve dared to take an opposing viewpoint, you’re a bully who claims to oppose bullying. I won’t be replying to you again as long as you remain an admin. because I certainly didn’t agree with Otium all the time, far from it but I think he had you sussed. I take full ownership of my having called Oti that. That's my point. It's not my logic that would suggest otherwise. It's yours. I'm not sure any right thinking person would accept an argument that anyone was provoked into demonstrating homophobia. It's a ludicrous argument. |
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Post by cissystrutt74 on Jul 18, 2021 8:42:44 GMT 1
I wonder if the admins on other sites keep poking the person that gets banned with a sharp stick, until they bite to such an extent that they will take legal action against it ? If they do I’m pretty confident that after the ban has been issued they wouldn’t continue to keep adding likes to any supporting posts on the matter. "He made him post homophobic content, m'lud" Is that your case for the defence? And when I'm being attacked for this situation despite it having been made clear that I recused myself from the decision making process you think I'm not going to express thanks to those who seem to understand the situation? I've seen plenty of posts disagreeing with the decision but nothing which, in my opinion, could be described as "being attacked" You were the only admin that was visibility interacting with Oti on the thread that led to his ban Rules is rules, but this place will be the loser overall! Another Town with a huge knowledge of the club banned! Sad day |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 8:43:31 GMT 1
No, that’s your feeble twist on the reality to imply that my view is weak as piss. Very clever, I’m sure, so going by your logic Otium made you call him a “c***” in the same thread, I take it you will now see your role as a neutral admin as compromised and untenable. I haven’t attacked you for this situation I’ve merely pointed out it doesn’t sit right to keep commenting on threads about someone who got a lifetime ban following a long row with you where you not only called him a “c***” but repeatedly made allegations against him until he threatened to take legal action against you if it continued. I’ve recently been on the receiving end of you being a snidey, obnoxious piece of work when I’ve dared to take an opposing viewpoint, you’re a bully who claims to oppose bullying. I won’t be replying to you again as long as you remain an admin. because I certainly didn’t agree with Otium all the time, far from it but I think he had you sussed. I take full ownership of my having called Oti that. That's my point. It's not my logic that would suggest otherwise. It's yours. I'm not sure any right thinking person would accept an argument that anyone was provoked into demonstrating homophobia. It's a ludicrous argument. Is he being reinstated or not? |
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Post by stevvy on Jul 18, 2021 8:50:06 GMT 1
59% of members who have voted don't agree with the admins. 265 votes (as I type this) out of however many hundreds (or thousands?) of members. Not terribly representative regardless of which way the vote was currently heading. It's like when an advert says 86% of people would recommend something, yet it's based on 73 responses. |
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