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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 29, 2022 13:00:44 GMT 1
I dont see anything majorly wrong myself. We've got a few too many injuries just now and yesterday really missed key players in Lees and Hogg . Their experience and leadership. And we have that combined with players who are really struggling for form, such as Sorba and Russell. I actually thought there were quite a few positives yesterday. In Tino we have a player who can do pretty special things. I think he'll just get better and better this season. Ive slated Ruffels but I thought he had a good game. Easily the best Ive seen him in a Town shirt. Thought Reg looked something like aswell too for the first time this season. Nakayama continues to impress and in Rudoni I think we have a really good player, though didnt think he was as good as he has been in that game. Kesler Hayden look a good player too and we have youngster like Jones and camara stepping up and looking the part. And we've got the best keeper in the division. We've had a disappointing start.. sluggish out of the traps which isn't uncommon for losing play off finalists. Just need a few less injuries and a few players who we know can play an awful lot better than they are to get their form back. And we'll be fine. Wouldn’t disagree with much of this captain, just not sure Schofield is the guy to get the best out of the players. Genuinely don’t know what our current gameplan is and he definitely lacks that sparkle that a Wagner has but I guess you could argue Carlos was not the sort you warm to and he ended up doing ok. Ive never bought into this 'gameplan' thing, like teams should have some definite and obvious style to their play. Teams can have slightly different formations and such but fundamentally the 'gameplan' for every one of them is to just play well, individually and as a team. Pass well, shoot on target, work hard... etc, etc. Do those basics better than the other team and you'll probably win the game, regardless of what style, gameplan, system etc you want to say youre playing IMO. people used to talk about 'carlosball' .. I never had a clue what that was supposed to be or what it looked like. |
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Post by space hardware on Aug 29, 2022 13:02:14 GMT 1
If someone could point me in the direction of an actual pattern of play or system we are trying to implement, that would be good. At present we look disjointed, unfit and lacking in any kind of style. We spent the majority of the game vs WBA pumping the ball up to Ward who couldn't hold it up. The 30% possession and 60% pass completion stats point to a team that has no clue what to actually do with the ball when they have it. The main reason for pumping the ball up was due to West Brom closing down quicker than most teams do. Sometimes the opposition can take credit for not allowing a team to play whatever tactic, style, pattern has been discussed. You can have any style in the world, it can be swept away with a shrewd counter tactic. It was clear we are allowing teams space on the wings, we are getting everyone back when defending, we are allowing teams to pass it around 30 yards out. West Brom, time after time, had so much possession for 4-5 minutes at a time and did absolutely nothing with it, due to good defending and a rigid line. We currently seem to be trying to play on the counter but to do that effectively you need the right players. We had a system under Carlos that seemed shit due to the players, but he persisted with the system and we eventually reached Wembley. There’s nothing wrong with the system, its not to everyone’s taste but it’s there. Currently square pegs in round holes but we will see in time. By hoofing it up to Ward, with no one within 30 yards of him because we are defending pretty much our own 18 yard line? How does that work? There isn't a system, you are deluding yourself. I daresay a more experienced coach (and no, I'm not talking about a dinosaur like Bruce, Warnock or Mowbray here) would shuffle the players we have got available and rustle up a coherent pattern of play. Schofield hasn't been able to do that. It's a mess and no amount of online turd polishing can change that. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 29, 2022 13:02:52 GMT 1
Genuine question, on what basis do you think we’ll finish above this list of teams that are all above us bar Cov (who have played 2 games less)? Genuine question, do you really think that a team who is in the bottom 3 after just 5 games has little chance of making up the ground on the teams above them with 123 points still to play for? You mean we're not as good as down then after 5 games? Thats a relief!  |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 29, 2022 13:05:30 GMT 1
Why the desire to return to a league where we’d be shipping goals like Bournemouth? Perhaps I’ve reached an age where the entertainment is more enjoyable than trying to get promoted beyond your capability. I enjoyed Saturday’s match more than most of last season’s sterile offerings. Possession stats and the myriad of others which are trotted out don’t bring home the bacon. It’s goals that count. Interesting view. I also thought it was a really enjoyable game. Funny though cos only a few weeks ago I was questioning folk who said they’d prefer entertaining than winning. So I’ll repeat my comment from back then. Everyone prefers to watch a winning team rather than an entertaining one. Those that don’t are lying or in denial |
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Post by ldr on Aug 29, 2022 13:07:32 GMT 1
I dont see anything majorly wrong myself. We've got a few too many injuries just now and yesterday really missed key players in Lees and Hogg . Their experience and leadership. And we have that combined with players who are really struggling for form, such as Sorba and Russell. I actually thought there were quite a few positives yesterday. In Tino we have a player who can do pretty special things. I think he'll just get better and better this season. Ive slated Ruffels but I thought he had a good game. Easily the best Ive seen him in a Town shirt. Thought Reg looked something like aswell too for the first time this season. Nakayama continues to impress and in Rudoni I think we have a really good player, though didnt think he was as good as he has been in that game. Kesler Hayden look a good player too and we have youngster like Jones and camara stepping up and looking the part. And we've got the best keeper in the division. We've had a disappointing start.. sluggish out of the traps which isn't uncommon for losing play off finalists. Just need a few less injuries and a few players who we know can play an awful lot better than they are to get their form back. And we'll be fine. You say that but this is a prime example of the age old football fan adage 'it's the hope that kills you'. You fail to mention, that we spent most of the game unable to retain the ball, pass to another Town player accurately, create any genuine chances, look unfit, spent most of the game pumping it long for some unknown reason and seemingly no tactical direction. If I were Schofield I would be focusing on ironing these problems out. I’m somewhere between you and the Captain. If we compare this game with the last time we played West Brom, then you have to say that we’ve regressed. We totally outplayed them down there and we were on the end of a totally ridiculous penalty decision that swung the game. We played through and around them that night and they were chasing shadows. On Saturday, you could say the tables were turned. They looked an accomplished side and we are a side that is scrabbling around for a style, a system and form. It has all the makings of a transitional season. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 29, 2022 13:14:38 GMT 1
You say that but this is a prime example of the age old football fan adage 'it's the hope that kills you'. You fail to mention, that we spent most of the game unable to retain the ball, pass to another Town player accurately, create any genuine chances, look unfit, spent most of the game pumping it long for some unknown reason and seemingly no tactical direction. If I were Schofield I would be focusing on ironing these problems out. Something of an exaggeration there IMO!! I didnt think we looked unfit at all. WBA kept the ball very well and moved it around.. on a hot day we coped with that well and if anything we were looking the physically stronger side at the end iMO. We didnt play well, missed leaders like Hogg and lees but got a point against a strong side.. dont see much to moan about in that. Schofield has got work to do. Finding his best side is one thing. Getting Thomas to stop looking like a non-league player another. Got to give him a little time to do it though before getting the knives out for him. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 29, 2022 13:25:58 GMT 1
Something of an exaggeration there IMO!! I didnt think we looked unfit at all. WBA kept the ball very well and moved it around.. on a hot day we coped with that well and if anything we were looking the physically stronger side at the end iMO. We didnt play well, missed leaders like Hogg and lees but got a point against a strong side.. dont see much to moan about in that. Schofield has got work to do. Finding his best side is one thing. Getting Thomas to stop looking like a non-league player another. Got to give him a little time to do it though before getting the knives out for him. I’d agree. I don’t think we are too far away from being a competitive side. If we had Lees and Hogg in the team on Saturday we’d possibly have had enough to protect the lead. Not sure if anyone else thinks so, but my biggest concern at the moment is up top. Ward seems to be struggling with his hold up play this season ( so far) This is putting us under constant pressure . |
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Post by specialone on Aug 29, 2022 13:34:06 GMT 1
You’re right Turbo2, I want us to win as much as any other Town fan but I was in a dilemma when we reached the Playoff Final as I wanted us to win but had no appetite for the prize.
It took me around half a season in 2017/18 for the scales to lift from my eyes and had we gone up last season under Carlos we’d have been taking the wallopings that Bournemouth have kindly gobbled up on our behalf.
Back to “entertainment” and Carlos’s sterile approach. I accept I’m out of line with modern trends but the stage managing style of coaching sucks the spontaneity out of the game. Sky’s stats suggested we had no “clear cut chances” on Saturday whereas WBA had four. We both ended up with two goals. WBA from their endless passing around the obstacle in their way and Town from two individual examples of excellence.
If I’m interpreting the stats right, a dogmatic coach will tell Anjorin not to shoot from distance, or even a wide angled one on one, as, presumably, the algorithm doesn’t think it’s worth trying because of the chance of losing the ball rather than scoring.
Whilst I agree we want to win, I can’t accept that we should not entertain. Saturday’s match was entertaining because it ebbed and flowed due to mistakes by both sides.
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 29, 2022 13:46:11 GMT 1
You’re right Turbo2, I want us to win as much as any other Town fan but I was in a dilemma when we reached the Playoff Final as I wanted us to win but had no appetite for the prize. It took me around half a season in 2017/18 for the scales to lift from my eyes and had we gone up last season under Carlos we’d have been taking the wallopings that Bournemouth have kindly gobbled up on our behalf. Back to “entertainment” and Carlos’s sterile approach. I accept I’m out of line with modern trends but the stage managing style of coaching sucks the spontaneity out of the game. Sky’s stats suggested we had no “clear cut chances” on Saturday whereas WBA had four. We both ended up with two goals. WBA from their endless passing around the obstacle in their way and Town from two individual examples of excellence. If I’m interpreting the stats right, a dogmatic coach will tell Anjorin not to shoot from distance, or even a wide angled one on one, as, presumably, the algorithm doesn’t think it’s worth trying because of the chance of losing the ball rather than scoring. Whilst I agree we want to win, I can’t accept that we should not entertain. Saturday’s match was entertaining because it ebbed and flowed due to mistakes by both sides. Bizarre those stats. How was Jordan’s header not one either. Thought he should have scored myself. On the entertainment side. Yeah in the ideal world you play really well and win most weeks. But honestly at this moment in time unless you support citeh or pool you’re going to be disappointed really |
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Post by harris on Aug 29, 2022 13:49:16 GMT 1
Genuine question, on what basis do you think we’ll finish above this list of teams that are all above us bar Cov (who have played 2 games less)? Genuine question, do you really think that a team who is in the bottom 3 after just 5 games has little chance of making up the ground on the teams above them with 123 points still to play for? Put your dummy back in mate - it was a reasonable question |
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Post by harris on Aug 29, 2022 13:53:22 GMT 1
Genuine question, on what basis do you think we’ll finish above this list of teams that are all above us bar Cov (who have played 2 games less)? Because we will finish with more points after 46 games than the mentioned teams due to the fact we have a squad of better players. If you look at what we’ve seen so far there is absolutely nothing to suggest we’ll finish above each of those teams. Better squad of players, as we’ve seen countless times in previous seasons, means f*ck all in this league if you don’t organise them properly. |
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Aug 29, 2022 13:54:49 GMT 1
You are all quick to point out the great things West Brom did like press high work rate,high , keep good progressive possession with working the ball around etc etc so why didn’t our team do these same core elements to the same standards if at all ?
Quality and ability of players and coach ...tactics ... desire
It is what it is pretty mediocre with a couple of class players in Anjorin and the keeper with a willing but inexperienced nice guy coach/manager
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Post by harris on Aug 29, 2022 14:00:35 GMT 1
If someone could point me in the direction of an actual pattern of play or system we are trying to implement, that would be good. At present we look disjointed, unfit and lacking in any kind of style. We spent the majority of the game vs WBA pumping the ball up to Ward who couldn't hold it up. The 30% possession and 60% pass completion stats point to a team that has no clue what to actually do with the ball when they have it. The main reason for pumping the ball up was due to West Brom closing down quicker than most teams do. Sometimes the opposition can take credit for not allowing a team to play whatever tactic, style, pattern has been discussed. You can have any style in the world, it can be swept away with a shrewd counter tactic. It was clear we are allowing teams space on the wings, we are getting everyone back when defending, we are allowing teams to pass it around 30 yards out. West Brom, time after time, had so much possession for 4-5 minutes at a time and did absolutely nothing with it, due to good defending and a rigid line. We currently seem to be trying to play on the counter but to do that effectively you need the right players. We had a system under Carlos that seemed shit due to the players, but he persisted with the system and we eventually reached Wembley. There’s nothing wrong with the system, its not to everyone’s taste but it’s there. Currently square pegs in round holes but we will see in time. They scored 2, had another 2 or 3 clear cut chances and somehow weren’t awarded a blatant penalty late on - if that’s the standard we’re aiming at defensively then god help us. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 29, 2022 14:03:07 GMT 1
You’re right Turbo2, I want us to win as much as any other Town fan but I was in a dilemma when we reached the Playoff Final as I wanted us to win but had no appetite for the prize. It took me around half a season in 2017/18 for the scales to lift from my eyes and had we gone up last season under Carlos we’d have been taking the wallopings that Bournemouth have kindly gobbled up on our behalf. Back to “entertainment” and Carlos’s sterile approach. I accept I’m out of line with modern trends but the stage managing style of coaching sucks the spontaneity out of the game. Sky’s stats suggested we had no “clear cut chances” on Saturday whereas WBA had four. We both ended up with two goals. WBA from their endless passing around the obstacle in their way and Town from two individual examples of excellence. If I’m interpreting the stats right, a dogmatic coach will tell Anjorin not to shoot from distance, or even a wide angled one on one, as, presumably, the algorithm doesn’t think it’s worth trying because of the chance of losing the ball rather than scoring. Whilst I agree we want to win, I can’t accept that we should not entertain. Saturday’s match was entertaining because it ebbed and flowed due to mistakes by both sides. Bizarre those stats. How was Jordan’s header not one either. Thought he should have scored myself. On the entertainment side. Yeah in the ideal world you play really well and win most weeks. But honestly at this moment in time unless you support citeh or pool you’re going to be disappointed really Maybe because it was off target? Although genuinely good chances are off target sometimes so I'm not sure what the criteria is. |
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Post by trailingleg on Aug 29, 2022 14:52:08 GMT 1
Only just got round to watching the EFL highlights. Love Steve Bruce's comments about that being the worst penalty decision he's ever seen. Obviously forgotten about the one at The Hawthorns last season. 🤔 The Can’t have seen this year’s playoff final either. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 29, 2022 15:01:38 GMT 1
The main reason for pumping the ball up was due to West Brom closing down quicker than most teams do. Sometimes the opposition can take credit for not allowing a team to play whatever tactic, style, pattern has been discussed. You can have any style in the world, it can be swept away with a shrewd counter tactic. It was clear we are allowing teams space on the wings, we are getting everyone back when defending, we are allowing teams to pass it around 30 yards out. West Brom, time after time, had so much possession for 4-5 minutes at a time and did absolutely nothing with it, due to good defending and a rigid line. We currently seem to be trying to play on the counter but to do that effectively you need the right players. We had a system under Carlos that seemed shit due to the players, but he persisted with the system and we eventually reached Wembley. There’s nothing wrong with the system, its not to everyone’s taste but it’s there. Currently square pegs in round holes but we will see in time. By hoofing it up to Ward, with no one within 30 yards of him because we are defending pretty much our own 18 yard line? How does that work? There isn't a system, you are deluding yourself. I daresay a more experienced coach (and no, I'm not talking about a dinosaur like Bruce, Warnock or Mowbray here) would shuffle the players we have got available and rustle up a coherent pattern of play. Schofield hasn't been able to do that. It's a mess and no amount of online turd polishing can change that. Will have to agree to disagree on this one mate. Your claim is that a manager of a Championship club has prepared for a game with no system. Just because you don’t like it, can’t see it or it didn’t work. And I think you genuinely believe that. Which I find astounding to be honest. And I’m deluded. |
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Post by turbo2 on Aug 29, 2022 15:07:38 GMT 1
Bizarre those stats. How was Jordan’s header not one either. Thought he should have scored myself. On the entertainment side. Yeah in the ideal world you play really well and win most weeks. But honestly at this moment in time unless you support citeh or pool you’re going to be disappointed really Maybe because it was off target? Although genuinely good chances are off target sometimes so I'm not sure what the criteria is. Surely not. How often do you seen absolute gobbers where they miss the goal. |
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Post by irverino on Aug 29, 2022 17:01:17 GMT 1
For me at 2-0 up after 30 mins watching us all of a sudden trying to pass the ball around in our own half knowing full well WBA were pressing & needed a goal before HT to stay in the game. I would of been quite happy to see Tino on the halfway line with Wardy & 'hoof' it over he WBA defence for the remaining 15 mins or so, Tino had them bricking themselves after his superb 2nd strike, that said over the 99 mins I thought we edged it slightly after they bossed the middle period of the game, still room for improvement from some but it's getting better......A clean sheet & any points on Wednesday would be huge step forward..UTT.
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Post by benhomly on Aug 29, 2022 17:48:20 GMT 1
Genuine question, do you really think that a team who is in the bottom 3 after just 5 games has little chance of making up the ground on the teams above them with 123 points still to play for? Put your dummy back in mate - it was a reasonable question Keep your toys in your pram buddy - so was mine |
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Post by harris on Aug 29, 2022 18:02:42 GMT 1
Put your dummy back in mate - it was a reasonable question Keep your toys in your pram buddy - so was mine Not really, mine was asking what he’d seen to suggest we’d finish above that list of teams. Yours was saying there’s 123 points to play for - completely irrelevant to what I was asking. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 18:29:58 GMT 1
Why is it just the moaners keeping this thread going 2 days after the match? Over 48 hours have passed since we DREW with WBA and still the doom and gloomers are packing the thread. Do they not think their points have been sufficently aired by now?
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Post by harris on Aug 29, 2022 19:08:45 GMT 1
Why is it just the moaners keeping this thread going 2 days after the match? Over 48 hours have passed since we DREW with WBA and still the doom and gloomers are packing the thread. Do they not think their points have been sufficently aired by now? To be fair, it’s a mix of positive and negative, sharing opinions on a game that happened this same weekend - is that not allowed? |
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Post by King Curtis on Aug 29, 2022 19:29:58 GMT 1
Why is it just the moaners keeping this thread going 2 days after the match? Over 48 hours have passed since we DREW with WBA and still the doom and gloomers are packing the thread. Do they not think their points have been sufficently aired by now? What are you on about? Any thread on this forum will continue until people stop contributing. Whether that thread is about Town vs. WBA, Neil Warnock or Whisky! Don't get your point. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 19:42:32 GMT 1
Why is it just the moaners keeping this thread going 2 days after the match? Over 48 hours have passed since we DREW with WBA and still the doom and gloomers are packing the thread. Do they not think their points have been sufficently aired by now? What are you on about? Any thread on this forum will continue until people stop contributing. Whether that thread is about Town vs. WBA, Neil Warnock or Whisky! Don't get your point. If we had won it would have been half as long and ended much sooner. We are getting so many 'we are all doomed' posts everytime we do anything but win it just, to me, seems ridiculously repetitive and unhelpful when we are going through a time of change. |
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Post by space hardware on Aug 29, 2022 19:48:56 GMT 1
By hoofing it up to Ward, with no one within 30 yards of him because we are defending pretty much our own 18 yard line? How does that work? There isn't a system, you are deluding yourself. I daresay a more experienced coach (and no, I'm not talking about a dinosaur like Bruce, Warnock or Mowbray here) would shuffle the players we have got available and rustle up a coherent pattern of play. Schofield hasn't been able to do that. It's a mess and no amount of online turd polishing can change that. Will have to agree to disagree on this one mate. Your claim is that a manager of a Championship club has prepared for a game with no system. Just because you don’t like it, can’t see it or it didn’t work. And I think you genuinely believe that. Which I find astounding to be honest. And I’m deluded. 👍🏻 Let's agree to disagree. |
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Post by ACW on Aug 29, 2022 19:59:50 GMT 1
Something of an exaggeration there IMO!! I didnt think we looked unfit at all. WBA kept the ball very well and moved it around.. on a hot day we coped with that well and if anything we were looking the physically stronger side at the end iMO. We didnt play well, missed leaders like Hogg and lees but got a point against a strong side.. dont see much to moan about in that. Schofield has got work to do. Finding his best side is one thing. Getting Thomas to stop looking like a non-league player another. Got to give him a little time to do it though before getting the knives out for him. I’d agree. I don’t think we are too far away from being a competitive side. If we had Lees and Hogg in the team on Saturday we’d possibly have had enough to protect the lead. Not sure if anyone else thinks so, but my biggest concern at the moment is up top. Ward seems to be struggling with his hold up play this season ( so far) This is putting us under constant pressure . Hold up play has never really been Ward's strong point. That said, he has suffered from poor quality service and little support this season. I'd like to see better hold up play up front, but that will only come if the quality of pass improves. Ward (or Rhodes) are never going to pluck high balls from the goalie out of the air and bring others into play. Improve the service and support and the hold up play will improve automatically. |
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King Curtis
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Post by King Curtis on Aug 29, 2022 20:00:02 GMT 1
What are you on about? Any thread on this forum will continue until people stop contributing. Whether that thread is about Town vs. WBA, Neil Warnock or Whisky! Don't get your point. We are getting so many 'we are all doomed' posts everytime we do anything but win it just, to me, seems ridiculously repetitive and unhelpful when we are going through a time of change. You've no evidence for that at all. Any thread will keep going as long as there's engagement. |
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Post by King Curtis on Aug 29, 2022 20:02:25 GMT 1
@bluesandtwos Look at the last few posts on this thread... Hardly negative. If you thought the thread should've been done by now, then maybe posting in it wasn't the best idea  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2022 20:28:51 GMT 1
@bluesandtwos Look at the last few posts on this thread... Hardly negative. If you thought the thread should've been done by now, then maybe posting in it wasn't the best idea I think you will find they are posters replying, mostly be disagreeing, with the 'we just played long ball', 'Schofield has no plan', etc, posts. I think much of it is folk who just need to post very regularly and having a dig will usually get you a response, which you can disagree with, and so on. I just don't find it at all useful. We finished 3rd last season and still got the moaners everytime we lost or a player had a bad game. I just don't get the constant negativity when we are supposed to be supporters. |
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Post by King Curtis on Aug 29, 2022 21:08:14 GMT 1
@bluesandtwos Look at the last few posts on this thread... Hardly negative. If you thought the thread should've been done by now, then maybe posting in it wasn't the best idea I think much of it is folk who just need to post very regularly and having a dig will usually get you a response, which you can disagree with, and so on. I just don't find it at all useful. We finished 3rd last season and still got the moaners everytime we lost or a player had a bad game. I just don't get the constant negativity when we are supposed to be supporters. Isn't debate like that what this place is about? |
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