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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jan 2, 2023 12:22:45 GMT 1
Seriously, I'd snap anyone's hand off if they are offering us £10m (with a sell on clause) for Camara right now. I think he'll be a very good player but there's always the chance he's the next Jon Russell.
The whole point of us producing players is to sell them (sad but that's how it is), I'd prefer it if we were more like Bournemouth, if they sold him for £10m they'd probably invest £5m back on a new player(s). I very much doubt we'd invest £5m back.
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,534
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Post by incognito on Jan 2, 2023 12:44:01 GMT 1
I'd be fuming at a sale and loan back arrangement in January. What's the point in even taking an interest in our youth teams if we're selling them within a couple of months of them being good enough? Not just Camara but Jackson too. If you're gonna make such a huge compromise on squad strength by replacing senior players with youth players, you can't then just sell the better youth players at the first opportunity. If we hang onto Camara as long as we did O'Brien we'll get 5x as much money for him, and will be a better team for it. Ridiculous short termism that'll cause more knock on problems in the coming years Much would depend on whether the player is likely to sign another contract with HTAFC... |
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Post by yoy on Jan 2, 2023 12:44:57 GMT 1
Seriously, I'd snap anyone's hand off if they are offering us £10m (with a sell on clause) for Camara right now. I think he'll be a very good player but there's always the chance he's the next Jon Russell. The whole point of us producing players is to sell them (sad but that's how it is), I'd prefer it if we were more like Bournemouth, if they sold him for £10m they'd probably invest £5m back on a new player(s). I very much doubt we'd invest £5m back. Ignoring any speculation around numbers, I don’t quite follow your logic here. You don’t think we will reinvest a reasonable proportion yet when given the choice of having the player or the cash you’d take the cash. I struggle to see what the knock on positive impacts for the squad are. I’m not blindly advocating an attempt to hold onto our best prospects forever, but as has already been said…. If the first team is having to make sacrifices in order to allow for the development of these players, then it also needs to be able to reap the rewards somewhere. You need at least one good season from them. Now clearly there’s a price at which that falls down and you have little choice other than to accept. But otherwise you need to give yourself a chance to build a team rather than just having continually high levels of turnover from hit and miss players who have never been given the stability to find regular form. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 2, 2023 13:03:12 GMT 1
Bizarre decision to bring Thomas on when Hogg went off injured instead of Camara. Apparently it was because he's been chomping at the bit? Everyone knew Camara was the best option in that situation so why the fuck did we bring on a winger for a holding midfielder & stick another winger into midfield? That decision killed the game for us & Thomas was, once again, abysmal when he came on, whereas Camara was excellent when he eventually came on.
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Post by nicovaesen on Jan 2, 2023 14:03:48 GMT 1
Seriously, I'd snap anyone's hand off if they are offering us £10m (with a sell on clause) for Camara right now. I think he'll be a very good player but there's always the chance he's the next Jon Russell. The whole point of us producing players is to sell them (sad but that's how it is), I'd prefer it if we were more like Bournemouth, if they sold him for £10m they'd probably invest £5m back on a new player(s). I very much doubt we'd invest £5m back. We won’t invest 1 million |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,965
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Post by Sparrow on Jan 2, 2023 14:39:58 GMT 1
If anyone is willing to pay £10m for Etienne then I’d be very tempted to take it.
When we signed this lad I heard a lot of good things about him. I was told, by someone who would definitely know, that he was better than Diarra and when I saw Etienne play, I was in a agreement, and I think you all know how highly I’ve always rated Brahima.
Etienne is a brilliant prospect, one I’d expect to play at the very highest level. But it’s not guaranteed. I’m sure we can all think of youngsters that we thought were gonna be brilliant that turned out to be anything but.
Also, he could get a horror injury at anytime that either massively limits his development or puts him out of the game. Wasn’t Nathan Clarke on the radar of Villa before a nasty injury. And Muz Olugunju was one of our brightest stars in the Academy not long ago, he's not kicked a ball in over 18 month due to a really bad injury. Kieran Philips was out for 2.5 years whilst at Everton as a kid and may never quite reach the level he may have done without the injury.
£10m now for a 19 year old prospect that’s only played a handful of first team games would be very very tempting for the above reasons.
He’s also not on a particularly long term contract and he’s recently got himself a new Agent. Moving from a small independent Agent to a bigger Sports Management Agency. So they will be either pushing for a big contract with Town or a move.
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jan 2, 2023 14:42:12 GMT 1
If anyone is willing to pay £10m for Etienne then I’d be very tempted to take it. When we signed this lad I heard a lot of good things about him. I was told, by someone who would definitely know, that he was better than Diarra and when I saw Etienne play, I was in a agreement, and I think you all know how highly I’ve always rated Brahima. Etienne is a brilliant prospect, one I’d expect to play at the very highest level. But it’s not guaranteed. I’m sure we can all think of youngsters that we thought were gonna be brilliant that turned out to be anything but. Also, he could get a horror injury at anytime that either massively limits his development or puts him out of the game. Wasn’t Nathan Clarke on the radar of Villa before a nasty injury. And Muz Olugunju was one of our brightest stars in the Academy not long ago, he's not kicked a ball in over 18 month due to a really bad injury. Kieran Philips was out for 2.5 years whilst at Everton as a kid and may never quite reach the level he may have done without the injury. £10m now for a 19 year old prospect that’s only played a handful of first team games would be very very tempting for the above reasons. He’s also not on a particularly long term don’t and he’s recently got himself a new Agent. Moving from a small independent Agent to a bigger Sports Management Agency. So they will be either pushing for a big contract with Town or a move. I agree, 10 mil with a good sell on clause is a good deal 10-12 mil for a player who hasn't even played a full season . Potential yes but what if he gets an injury etc |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 2, 2023 14:53:52 GMT 1
Bizarre decision to bring Thomas on when Hogg went off injured instead of Camara. Apparently it was because he's been chomping at the bit? Everyone knew Camara was the best option in that situation so why the fuck did we bring on a winger for a holding midfielder & stick another winger into midfield? That decision killed the game for us & Thomas was, once again, abysmal when he came on, whereas Camara was excellent when he eventually came on. Performances in training apparently take preference over performances on the pitch. Everybody knows this was a bizarre decision and whilst Fotheringham was right to criticize the defenders for Luton's goals, he should have taken ownership of his own cock up. |
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Post by bobrobterrier on Jan 2, 2023 15:04:52 GMT 1
Nobody’s willing to pay £10m - that story was exaggerated (a lot).
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Jan 2, 2023 15:07:25 GMT 1
Bizarre decision to bring Thomas on when Hogg went off injured instead of Camara. Apparently it was because he's been chomping at the bit? Everyone knew Camara was the best option in that situation so why the fuck did we bring on a winger for a holding midfielder & stick another winger into midfield? That decision killed the game for us & Thomas was, once again, abysmal when he came on, whereas Camara was excellent when he eventually came on. Performances in training apparently take preference over performances on the pitch. Everybody knows this was a bizarre decision and whilst Fotheringham was right to criticize the defenders for Luton's goals, he should have taken ownership of his own cock up. Never does. It’s always someone else’s fault. That’s why he’s such a great leader and we are lucky to have him. Great leadership is about having the courage to throw players under the bus. |
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Post by dm on Jan 2, 2023 15:19:16 GMT 1
Bizarre decision to bring Thomas on when Hogg went off injured instead of Camara. Apparently it was because he's been chomping at the bit? Everyone knew Camara was the best option in that situation so why the fuck did we bring on a winger for a holding midfielder & stick another winger into midfield? That decision killed the game for us & Thomas was, once again, abysmal when he came on, whereas Camara was excellent when he eventually came on. Performances in training apparently take preference over performances on the pitch. Everybody knows this was a bizarre decision and whilst Fotheringham was right to criticize the defenders for Luton's goals, he should have taken ownership of his own cock up. Whilst Ruffels and Boyle were poor for the second, watching the replay back you can see that Ruffels has two men coming down his side of the pitch (with others going in-field) and Thomas is further forward, jogging back and covering nobody. Collectively, the left hand side was piss weak at that time but the biggest culprit on that one was Thomas for me (as much as I don't wish to join the people giving him pelters). 7:59 on there^ |
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Post by tepidterrier on Jan 2, 2023 16:31:54 GMT 1
I'd be fuming at a sale and loan back arrangement in January. What's the point in even taking an interest in our youth teams if we're selling them within a couple of months of them being good enough? Not just Camara but Jackson too. If you're gonna make such a huge compromise on squad strength by replacing senior players with youth players, you can't then just sell the better youth players at the first opportunity. If we hang onto Camara as long as we did O'Brien we'll get 5x as much money for him, and will be a better team for it. Ridiculous short termism that'll cause more knock on problems in the coming years We’re rumoured to be getting £10m for him - you think we’ll get £50m for him if we keep him a bit longer? I completely agree that we should be keeping him longer and it’s really annoying - we want to see the strongest possible team but look at the situation of the club - we need to sell players for big money to sustain the club, which is losing what, £6 million a year? Hopefully the new owners are going to strengthen and want to get us to to the prem again. Hoyle is clearly going to try and get as much money back as possible. Also I’d imagine that if he gets £10m for Camara it won’t knock £10m off the value of the club, and it might actually strengthen Hoyle’s hand in negotiating as it will help a case for showing the value of the young players. I’d suggest that the investment in youth is not just Camara or Diarra but also the other players like High, Jones etc that will fill spaces on the bench, squad, and be reliable enough when playing games. Consider what we’re probably paying Mahoney versus what we’d be paying a youth player for the same contribution this season - probably 5x more of a wage on Mahoney. I'd be very surprised if 10m was true, we didn't get that much for O'Brien and Toffolo combined, and as incognito said, he might not sign a new contract. That he's not signing it is the club's fault. He's not got ideas above his station or anything, the club's just not worth sticking with from the point of view of a high potential young player. I'd say if he stayed for another 2 seasons after this one then he'd be our record sale. Not 50m as he's not worth 10m, but 20+ if he keeps developing. On the more pragmatic points, couldn't agree more. It's the sad reality, and if I were Dave Baldwin I'd be snapping hands off left right and centre if any of them got near 10m for him. But as a fan it's so so disheartening to see us unable to hold onto our best young players. During difficult seasons like this one it helps being able to look to a potentially brighter future with good young players coming through. |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,965
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Post by Sparrow on Jan 2, 2023 17:56:10 GMT 1
We’re rumoured to be getting £10m for him - you think we’ll get £50m for him if we keep him a bit longer? I completely agree that we should be keeping him longer and it’s really annoying - we want to see the strongest possible team but look at the situation of the club - we need to sell players for big money to sustain the club, which is losing what, £6 million a year? Hopefully the new owners are going to strengthen and want to get us to to the prem again. Hoyle is clearly going to try and get as much money back as possible. Also I’d imagine that if he gets £10m for Camara it won’t knock £10m off the value of the club, and it might actually strengthen Hoyle’s hand in negotiating as it will help a case for showing the value of the young players. I’d suggest that the investment in youth is not just Camara or Diarra but also the other players like High, Jones etc that will fill spaces on the bench, squad, and be reliable enough when playing games. Consider what we’re probably paying Mahoney versus what we’d be paying a youth player for the same contribution this season - probably 5x more of a wage on Mahoney. I'd be very surprised if 10m was true, we didn't get that much for O'Brien and Toffolo combined, and as incognito said, he might not sign a new contract. That he's not signing it is the club's fault. He's not got ideas above his station or anything, the club's just not worth sticking with from the point of view of a high potential young player. I'd say if he stayed for another 2 seasons after this one then he'd be our record sale. Not 50m as he's not worth 10m, but 20+ if he keeps developing. On the more pragmatic points, couldn't agree more. It's the sad reality, and if I were Dave Baldwin I'd be snapping hands off left right and centre if any of them got near 10m for him. But as a fan it's so so disheartening to see us unable to hold onto our best young players. During difficult seasons like this one it helps being able to look to a potentially brighter future with good young players coming through. Whilst I agree it’s disheartening if we’re not able to hold on to our best young players, however, there’s lots more in the pipeline Ben Midgley Dylan Halliwell Cian Philpott Tom Iorpenda 4 top quality young midfielders with bags of potential |
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jan 2, 2023 17:56:39 GMT 1
Seriously, I'd snap anyone's hand off if they are offering us £10m (with a sell on clause) for Camara right now. I think he'll be a very good player but there's always the chance he's the next Jon Russell. The whole point of us producing players is to sell them (sad but that's how it is), I'd prefer it if we were more like Bournemouth, if they sold him for £10m they'd probably invest £5m back on a new player(s). I very much doubt we'd invest £5m back. Ignoring any speculation around numbers, I don’t quite follow your logic here. You don’t think we will reinvest a reasonable proportion yet when given the choice of having the player or the cash you’d take the cash. I struggle to see what the knock on positive impacts for the squad are. I’m not blindly advocating an attempt to hold onto our best prospects forever, but as has already been said…. If the first team is having to make sacrifices in order to allow for the development of these players, then it also needs to be able to reap the rewards somewhere. You need at least one good season from them. Now clearly there’s a price at which that falls down and you have little choice other than to accept. But otherwise you need to give yourself a chance to build a team rather than just having continually high levels of turnover from hit and miss players who have never been given the stability to find regular form. The 10m came from the post above mine. We have to make the shortfall of money up by selling players, I would re-invest 5m (as the % based on their replacements is a big part of Bournemouth's success) but not sure Dean would. We still need that money to cover the financial aspect & I think selling Camara would be ideal at those numbers, as he is so new to the team, we would not be losing a major part of it, if someone was paying 10m they are buying potential & it would not hit our current first choice team too badly. I'm not advocating doing this with every young player, it was purely based on the sum of 10m being spent on Camara right now. |
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Post by space hardware on Jan 2, 2023 19:56:31 GMT 1
I seriously cannot see anyone paying £10m for Camara.
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Post by Rickys mellons on Jan 2, 2023 20:06:24 GMT 1
Some really interesting ideas on this thread. I understand where we are financially (sadly) and I can see the reason for cashing in. To me this lad is one of the most exciting prospects we've had at town. With no chance of signing anyone exciting anytime soon. We need to keep hold of some of these young lads or you start to think what's the actual point anymore.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 2, 2023 20:10:20 GMT 1
Loaning him to Wigan
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Post by Amigo on Jan 2, 2023 20:15:12 GMT 1
On the face of it £10m for Camara considering what he's done so far would be amazing (not knocking him I think he's been brilliant all in all).
But, we're not going to invest £10m back in the team, or even £5m or probably anywhere near so what's the point, as a fan?
I'd rather watch him develop and play than just be able to say "oh yeah we got £10m for him" while watching him on telly one day.
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Post by harris on Jan 2, 2023 20:16:29 GMT 1
Can’t tell if this is a joke or not. If it isn’t, then that’d be another in a long line of baffling decisions this club has made recently |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jan 2, 2023 20:18:42 GMT 1
Can’t tell if this is a joke or not. If it isn’t, then that’d be another in a long line of baffling decisions this club has made recently Whoosh. |
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 952
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Post by prepare on Jan 2, 2023 21:08:45 GMT 1
I'd be fuming at a sale and loan back arrangement in January. What's the point in even taking an interest in our youth teams if we're selling them within a couple of months of them being good enough? Not just Camara but Jackson too. If you're gonna make such a huge compromise on squad strength by replacing senior players with youth players, you can't then just sell the better youth players at the first opportunity. If we hang onto Camara as long as we did O'Brien we'll get 5x as much money for him, and will be a better team for it. Ridiculous short termism that'll cause more knock on problems in the coming years Much would depend on whether the player is likely to sign another contract with HTAFC... correct |
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jan 2, 2023 21:13:40 GMT 1
In an ideal world, of course we'd love to see our young players develop with us but that's unrealistic currently. It would have to be silly money to sell Camara but anything over £5m would be silly money in my eyes.
The reason why we are not following Brentford's model is that we don't re-invest the same % of sales. Someone stated earlier that their promotion squad cost £68m, I've no idea if that is true or not but if it is, you can guarantee they will have got a lot more money from that in sales.
Recently, we have sold Grant, LOB & Tof but have spent a small % on replacements.
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Post by boooothy on Jan 2, 2023 21:29:49 GMT 1
I’d like him to stay but, as we found out, you can’t get relegated and think your players are worth what they were.
I’d say Camara is currently worth up to 5 milllion, if we get relegated, 1.5 million tops.
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 926
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Post by mallyb on Jan 14, 2023 19:09:23 GMT 1
Why no where near the squad today? Best player at preston
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Post by ACW on Jan 14, 2023 19:51:14 GMT 1
Why no where near the squad today? Best player at preston Was thinking the same. Sounds like our midfield struggled today and we could have done with his ability on the ball. Is he injured? |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 14, 2023 20:04:24 GMT 1
Why no where near the squad today? Best player at preston Was thinking the same. Sounds like our midfield struggled today and we could have done with his ability on the ball. Is he injured? Didn't say he was injured when the club announced the team news, infact they didn't mention him at all? 🤔 |
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Post by mids on Jan 14, 2023 20:13:37 GMT 1
He'll be getting sold. Along with 'injured' Nicholls and unused sub Thomas.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jan 14, 2023 20:15:08 GMT 1
He'll be getting sold. Along with 'injured' Nicholls and unused sub Thomas. Who cares, we've got Scott High back  |
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Post by robinvar on Jan 15, 2023 0:19:17 GMT 1
He'll be getting sold. Along with 'injured' Nicholls and unused sub Thomas. Who cares, we've got Scott High back Did he even touch the ball today? Not look like touching the ball, or come close to making a tackle, but actually physically touch the ball or make a tackle? Rarely. Edited because I am probably being harsh, but i think we need better quality in a key position if we are to stay up. |
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Post by Next Manager coming soon on Jan 22, 2023 4:37:55 GMT 1
Interesting to note that Camara was playing for the B team today so was clearly not in the squad for Blackpool. Surprised he couldn’t even make the bench.
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