Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 10, 2022 13:22:26 GMT 1
WBA above us only on goal difference, and we have a game in hand. Above Cov by 4 points - but they have 3 games in hand. On paper, one of the best squads in the Championship & a fair bit of money spent. They would realistically class themselves as promotion candidates even with a bang average manager, and yet they're in the bottom 3. I suspect Baggies fans would view paullow1 's comments as unduly generous towards him! |
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Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
Posts: 24,108
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 10, 2022 13:25:24 GMT 1
Yeah so 13th and then 12th. So amongst all those bad results he presumably won a fair few too. And sounds like he made some good signings. Start of 18/19 Newcastle failed to win any of their first 10 games and were dumped out of LC by championship Forest.. were you all screaming for Benitez's head? You also won 3 and drew 1 of your last 5 games to give that season a bit of a rosey tint it didnt merit. So its a bit unfair isn't it to just lay those late season successes on bruce and ignore it for Benitez isn't it? It was an awful start by Rafa that season, and no and the vast majority of fans didn't call for his head, not one person I know personally, and yes, his reputation and CV will have helped, but this was a man who was managing Real Madrid a couple of months before joining, not plucked from 2nd tier Sheff Wed. There was a feeling that he was too good for where we were, we were grateful to have him, a last glimpse of 'big club' relevancy, and a degree of hope, whereas Bruce represented mediocrity and a typical symbol of the Ashley era. On paper, you can't expect people to be happy going from Benitez to Bruce, surely that's understandable, so it always was going to be a tough job. Benitez's football wasn't the most exciting at times but you could at least see what he was trying to do, which wasn't the case with Bruce who did have a lot more money and better squad including players like Joelinton, Wilson, ASM, Schaar, Willock, Almiron etc. who all still feature predominantly today, well for now anyway, yet we were undoubtedly declining and heading in one direction. There's not really much point continuing because we'll never agree, and yes, there probably was a bit of selectivity there, but one thing I will say, and it goes for all football fans, not just Newcastle, and it's certainly not directed at you personally, but those that watch their team every match, chat about it at work, read and hear about everything, a huge part of their daily lives, will tend to know more about the ongoings of their own football club more than some outsiders simply seeing a few stats. Agreed. Much like when HTAFC were criticised by many on the outside for sacking Lee Clark. From the outside it looked harsh, yet very few town fans were particularly upset by it. |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by incognito on Oct 10, 2022 13:36:58 GMT 1
It was an awful start by Rafa that season, and no and the vast majority of fans didn't call for his head, not one person I know personally, and yes, his reputation and CV will have helped, but this was a man who was managing Real Madrid a couple of months before joining, not plucked from 2nd tier Sheff Wed. There was a feeling that he was too good for where we were, we were grateful to have him, a last glimpse of 'big club' relevancy, and a degree of hope, whereas Bruce represented mediocrity and a typical symbol of the Ashley era. On paper, you can't expect people to be happy going from Benitez to Bruce, surely that's understandable, so it always was going to be a tough job. Benitez's football wasn't the most exciting at times but you could at least see what he was trying to do, which wasn't the case with Bruce who did have a lot more money and better squad including players like Joelinton, Wilson, ASM, Schaar, Willock, Almiron etc. who all still feature predominantly today, well for now anyway, yet we were undoubtedly declining and heading in one direction. There's not really much point continuing because we'll never agree, and yes, there probably was a bit of selectivity there, but one thing I will say, and it goes for all football fans, not just Newcastle, and it's certainly not directed at you personally, but those that watch their team every match, chat about it at work, read and hear about everything, a huge part of their daily lives, will tend to know more about the ongoings of their own football club more than some outsiders simply seeing a few stats. Agreed. Much like when HTAFC were criticised by many on the outside for sacking Lee Clark. From the outside it looked harsh, yet very few town fans were particularly upset by it. Seconded. But I can't imagine it ever occurred to any HTAFC fan to go and celebrate on the Blackpool forum the day Clark was sacked by Bury  |
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Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 10, 2022 13:40:50 GMT 1
Agreed. Much like when HTAFC were criticised by many on the outside for sacking Lee Clark. From the outside it looked harsh, yet very few town fans were particularly upset by it. Seconded. But I can't imagine it ever occurred to any HTAFC fan to go and celebrate on the Blackpool forum the day Clark was sacked by Bury I bet Phil Billing would tear it up in the North West Counties Football League. |
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Post by workshyfop on Oct 10, 2022 13:51:33 GMT 1
hardly a sleeping giant!! Must be the experts think so.. Their plan to bounce in between the premier and the championship was always in danger of being shite.. It involves the absolute requirement to get promotion from a league where there is less and less a guarantee you can buy it.. Unless you’re Forest of course. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Oct 10, 2022 14:00:41 GMT 1
Not sure there's much wrong with Newcastle fans dislike of Bruce. Other than he's apparently a Newcastle fan, which you would have thought would have bought him a bit of slack but didn't seem to. What I will never understand is the love of Benitez. Had more clubs than Tiger Woods and not done much of note since 2005. He's little more than a higher profile Spanish Bruce these days, or as I saw him called recently "Paelladyce"  |
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Post by dewsburyterrier on Oct 10, 2022 14:05:19 GMT 1
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Post by hypotenuse on Oct 10, 2022 14:14:51 GMT 1
The narrative will always be the deluded and ungrateful Geordies giving him a hard time, as seen above, especially when he's 'statistically as good as Rafa', and some of the grief he gets from Newcastle fans, that you'll no doubt see on Twitter and other social media, may seem irrational to away fans, but he'll certainly go down as my least favourite manager ever. Always the victim, lies / exaggerations, shifting the blame, lowering expectations, trademark bingo cliche's, subtly criticising fans. I wrote this on another forum, so not wasting another 30 minutes of my life, but he really has been finished for a good few years now. Sacked at Villa for winning 3 of his first 11 matches of 2018/19 Championship season, and in the bottom half, despite having Abraham, Grealish, McGinn, and Bolasie at his disposal. Dean Smith comes in a week later and they get the promoted that same season :lol: www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-championship/03-october-2018/Delays taking over at Sheff Wed so he can get watch some cricket, does OK there in his 18 matches there before leaving at the first opportunity for seemingly better things - a story of his managerial career. Takes over an improving Newcastle side who won 8 and drew 3 of their final 16 matches of the previous PL campaign, becoming hard to beat, creating an identity with a respected boss, finally a bit of togetherness, and then that's all thrown out of the window instantly. He spends over £60m that summer including ASM and Joelinton, and finishes 13th which was OK, if not meh, and a reasonably fair reflection on the season. The following season he adds Wilson, Fraser and 15m on Jamaal Lewis, so he's getting a fair bit of backing, certainly relatively in the Mike Ashley era, most Newcastle fans would say given to the wrong man, and that 2nd season was terrible. From the 5-2 defeat to Leeds on Dec 16th, Newcastle won 2, drew 6, and lost 11 of their 19 PL matches, a period which also included a first hurdle FA Cup exit, and a league cup defeat to 2nd tier Brentford who pretty much changed their entire team. They won 3 of their last 4 PL matches that season, including the final 2 against already relegated Sheff Utd and Fulham, to go from 17th on May 6th to 12th on the final day - papering over the crack if there ever was any, and this was a team back in the PL 4 years, and a bit more quality added to the squad in his 2 years www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/06-may-2021/The following season, Newcastle go out of the League Cup at home to Burnley and get 3 points, and no wins, out of their first 8 games and these games included Southampton, Leeds, Watford, Wolves, Villa, West Ham, and even a home match to Nuno's Spurs isn't the same as it is now - yet literally 3 points, and well on the way to relegation. A team with no tactics, no plan, no identity, no inspiration, no hope. Just pick your best 11 players, ask them to give it a go, and see if we can 'nick a result'. Pathetic. www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/17-october-2021/Takes over at West Brom a few months later in 5th place, after his 8 MILLION pay off, with the one aim 'to get the Albion out of this league'. Ends up finishing 10th after winning only 6 of his 17 matches. The following season, they win literally one of their 13 league matches, into the bottom 3, with both teams below having games in hand (his one aim may well be coming true, just not the way he planned...) and this is a team who had never finished worse than 6th in the second tier since 1999, 'had' I say, because Brucie already spoiled that the season before, and they've got the 5th highest wage bill in the league. He's been finished for ages - his last 38 league games, including his final days at Newcastle, reads 7W 15D 16L which is awful when 30 of them were at a club who should be at the top end of the table. I could honestly go on and on for hours about my sheer disdain and contempt for the man, and some of it may seem irrational to away fans, but when it's your club and you see and hear his droning shite on a daily basis, to me, it's totally understandable. I've said it before, many times actually, Newcastle have statistically had worse managers in the Premier League era, and other unsavoury characters, but, taking everything into account, Stephen Roger Bruce will go down as the worst of the lot for the majority of Newcastle fans, and that includes Pardew, Allardyce, Souness, and Joe F'ing Kinnear, ha. Absolutely in agreement with all you say about him but the most pertinent bit is the ‘always the victim, lies/exaggerates…’ - the classic narcissistic gaslighter. Like the Tory party nowadays - always someone else’s fault like the ‘anti-growth coalition’. Before that it was immigrants, scroungers on benefits, the EU, … |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 10, 2022 14:47:16 GMT 1
Yeah so 13th and then 12th. So amongst all those bad results he presumably won a fair few too. And sounds like he made some good signings. Start of 18/19 Newcastle failed to win any of their first 10 games and were dumped out of LC by championship Forest.. were you all screaming for Benitez's head? You also won 3 and drew 1 of your last 5 games to give that season a bit of a rosey tint it didnt merit. So its a bit unfair isn't it to just lay those late season successes on bruce and ignore it for Benitez isn't it? It was an awful start by Rafa that season, and no and the vast majority of fans didn't call for his head, not one person I know personally, and yes, his reputation and CV will have helped, but this was a man who was managing Real Madrid a couple of months before joining, not plucked from 2nd tier Sheff Wed. There was a feeling that he was too good for where we were, we were grateful to have him, a last glimpse of 'big club' relevancy, and a degree of hope, whereas Bruce represented mediocrity and a typical symbol of the Ashley era. On paper, you can't expect people to be happy going from Benitez to Bruce, surely that's understandable, so it always was going to be a tough job. Benitez's football wasn't the most exciting at times but you could at least see what he was trying to do, which wasn't the case with Bruce who did have a lot more money and better squad including players like Joelinton, Wilson, ASM, Schaar, Willock, Almiron etc. who all still feature predominantly today, well for now anyway, yet we were undoubtedly declining and heading in one direction. There's not really much point continuing because we'll never agree, and yes, there probably was a bit of selectivity there, but one thing I will say, and it goes for all football fans, not just Newcastle, and it's certainly not directed at you personally, but those that watch their team every match, chat about it at work, read and hear about everything, a huge part of their daily lives, will tend to know more about the ongoings of their own football club more than some outsiders simply seeing a few stats. Absolutely , and Im not disagreeing with you particularly, more just slightly bewildered by the vast chasm of opinion Newcastle fans have between those two managers, despite their records being pretty much the same. Thats why I wonder if its simply a Sunderland thing? Benitez himself probably faced the same thing ( the support being biased against him ) at Everton ( and Chelsea ) due to his Liverpool history. |
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Post by mosher on Oct 10, 2022 14:54:18 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise?
The most tenuous of links this time!
I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted?
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Post by Towner47 on Oct 10, 2022 17:08:34 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise? The most tenuous of links this time! I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted? Not a chance in hell sadly |
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Post by araucaria on Oct 10, 2022 17:11:25 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise? The most tenuous of links this time! I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted? Relax, it's just hypotenuse going off at a tangent. |
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Oct 10, 2022 17:18:57 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise? The most tenuous of links this time! I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted? Relax, it's just hypotenuse going off at a tangent. I see what you did there... |
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Post by 28901 on Oct 10, 2022 17:19:41 GMT 1
Wonder if they’ll go back in for Wagner or possibly CC? Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. |
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Post by Orinoco on Oct 10, 2022 17:25:58 GMT 1
Wonder if they’ll go back in for Wagner or possibly CC? Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. Bruce certainly splits opinions between Town fans, totally agree with your post. |
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Post by rugbyterrier on Oct 10, 2022 17:27:14 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise? The most tenuous of links this time! I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted? I will bring it back to good old fashioned football songs...... Bruce the elephant packed his bags and said goodbye to the Albion Off he went with a trumpety trump Big fat kunt!!!!! |
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Oct 10, 2022 17:27:35 GMT 1
Wonder if they’ll go back in for Wagner or possibly CC? Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. I dunno- obviously some of the personal abuse on places like Twitter is a bit much, but paullow makes several good points: when things go pear-shaped it's never his fault is it? He'll always be associated with the sale of Marcus Stewart for me, and the disaster of the following season when he doomed us to relegation despite the efforts of Macari. That and taking time off to cover Man United. Oh, and the fact that he was brought in as a "big name" by Rubery and Pubic- and Jacko was pushed aside. |
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Post by workshyfop on Oct 10, 2022 18:01:29 GMT 1
Wonder if they’ll go back in for Wagner or possibly CC? Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. Agreed. If he hadn’t been forced to sell Stewart, who knows what we could have achieved that season. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 10, 2022 18:06:55 GMT 1
Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. I dunno- obviously some of the personal abuse on places like Twitter is a bit much, but paullow makes several good points: when things go pear-shaped it's never his fault is it? He'll always be associated with the sale of Marcus Stewart for me, and the disaster of the following season when he doomed us to relegation despite the efforts of Macari. That and taking time off to cover Man United.Oh, and the fact that he was brought in as a "big name" by Rubery and Pubic- and Jacko was pushed aside. The Man Utd thing Ill give you. A mistake by him and the club for letting him do it. With Stewart Ive never blamed Bruce. That was on the club,, Rubery basically trying to recoup some of his money before getting out of the club. Not sure he'd doomed us to relegation the following season either,, he was sacked in October after going 9 games without a win but we still had 35 games left to play! Other than Stewart it was pretty much the same side we'd had the previous season that had just missed out on a PO spot so there no way that side should have gone down. We were hardly doomed and should have stayed up comfortably really. |
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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on Oct 10, 2022 18:18:06 GMT 1
They should be able to attract a decent manager. Wilder could be a good shout even though he didn’t impress at boro. They might even be able to persuade Dyche.
Shame they didn’t keep Bruce as the new manager won’t be as shit.
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wildhogg
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 902
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Post by wildhogg on Oct 10, 2022 19:45:45 GMT 1
We played some brilliant football under Bruce during the first 2/3's of his first season. All went to sh*t when Stewart was sold, though. It'd have been interesting to see what Jacko could have achieved with the money Rubery splashed.
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Post by 28901 on Oct 10, 2022 22:01:24 GMT 1
Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. Agreed. If he hadn’t been forced to sell Stewart, who knows what we could have achieved that season. Was he forced? I've heard various tales. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Oct 10, 2022 22:10:18 GMT 1
We played some brilliant football under Bruce during the first 2/3's of his first season. All went to sh*t when Stewart was sold, though. It'd have been interesting to see what Jacko could have achieved with the money Rubery splashed. Classic memory error made by many fans. We’d already gone downhill massively several weeks before that - I can well remember Charlton playing us off the park at the McAlpine in late December and being embarrassingly poor at Blackburn and Birmingham in January. We didn’t sell Stewart until February. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Oct 10, 2022 22:17:18 GMT 1
Why does every thread have to devolve into a Tory-bashing exercise? The most tenuous of links this time! I wonder if there's any chance of ANY thread not being polluted? It could be there universal popularity and outstand management of the economy. I apologize unreservedly🥺 |
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Oct 11, 2022 6:17:45 GMT 1
We played some brilliant football under Bruce during the first 2/3's of his first season. All went to sh*t when Stewart was sold, though. It'd have been interesting to see what Jacko could have achieved with the money Rubery splashed. We did. I remember playing Port Vale at home and we absolutely battered them.Athough I think it ended up a draw its still some of the best football I've ever seen Town play |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 11, 2022 7:21:47 GMT 1
He still gave us the best team to watch in my 50 years of supporting Town even if it was only for 3/4 of a season. |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 11, 2022 7:25:49 GMT 1
We played some brilliant football under Bruce during the first 2/3's of his first season. All went to sh*t when Stewart was sold, though. It'd have been interesting to see what Jacko could have achieved with the money Rubery splashed. Well he tried to sign Lucketti and Irons but they didn't want to come, Jacko gets the boot Bruce comes in and they couldn't sign fast enough. |
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 11, 2022 7:27:31 GMT 1
Agreed. If he hadn’t been forced to sell Stewart, who knows what we could have achieved that season. Was he forced? I've heard various tales. Cherry was Rubery's adviser, he advised him that Stewie wasn't good enough for the PL if we went up. Ipswich made an offer and Rubery accepted on the advice he'd received |
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Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 11, 2022 8:17:21 GMT 1
We played some brilliant football under Bruce during the first 2/3's of his first season. All went to sh*t when Stewart was sold, though. It'd have been interesting to see what Jacko could have achieved with the money Rubery splashed. Classic memory error made by many fans. We’d already gone downhill massively several weeks before that - I can well remember Charlton playing us off the park at the McAlpine in late December and being embarrassingly poor at Blackburn and Birmingham in January. We didn’t sell Stewart until February. IIRC we sold him on 1st Feb. Not as though the results had been poor for a while, it was short enough at the time to call it a blip. Stewy's last game for us was a draw away at Palace. We weren't in free fall. Unfortunately that "blip" then continued long after the sale of Stewart. |
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Post by mosher on Oct 11, 2022 9:16:26 GMT 1
Wasn't he in the frame last time, and their fans went ballistic because he wasn't a big enough name? So funny they got Bruce. I dont get the hate for Bruce. Town played terrific football under him for a while. I know he couldn't wait to move on and all that, but I dont think he is a bad person and doesnt deserve personal abuse for doing his job. Agreed. If he hadn’t been forced to sell Stewart, who knows what we could have achieved that season. At the time it was widely reported he'd been made a board member and had veto on ANY transfer. And didn't veto Stewart's sale. He's a lying prick who bottled it when he realised (after Rubbery bottled it) he'd have to use managerial talent rather than spend shitloads. Macari always seems to get the shit for us going down, but what that bent-nosed Geordie bellend left him with wasn't exactly awe inspiring! |
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