Pele

[iangreaves]

On end of life care, sadly. Best player certainly in my lifetime.

[VLP Fan Club]

Very sad didn’t realise he was in his 80’s now.

Regards to best in lifetime he comes nowhere near the levels of Messi in my opinion.

[Metch]

I was 7 in 1970, watching my 1st World Cup. I thought Brazil were the gods of football and Pele the King of the gods. I've found it hard ever since to accept anyone else as the greatest player ever seen. May he find peace.

[andyeastleake]

Dec 3, 2022 21:31:52 GMT 1 VLP Fan Club said:

Very sad didn’t realise he was in his 80’s now.

Regards to best in lifetime he comes nowhere near the levels of Messi in my opinion.

It's hard to compare different periods...

...surely you'd expect mankind to move forward..

...however I'd suggest Pele was further ahead of his contemporaries than Messi has been ....

...& this (I'd suggest) is probably reflected in his world cup winning record compared to Messi...

[iangreaves]

Dec 3, 2022 21:31:52 GMT 1 VLP Fan Club said:

Very sad didn’t realise he was in his 80’s now.

Regards to best in lifetime he comes nowhere near the levels of Messi in my opinion.

Nah. A million miles better than Messi. In an age when the balls were heavy he transformed football and won 3 world cups.

[Terrier Ramone]

Wishing him & his family all the best.

It is impossible to compare players of different generations, I just would love to see Pele with modern day training, diets etc. (& Cruyff also if banned from smoking!)

Let's just all agree he was a sensational player & wish him well.

[Porrohman]

🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 for the King
Pele 'still undergoing treatment and remains stable', his hospital in Sao Paulo says - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63846935

[overtonterrierspirit]

Dec 3, 2022 22:21:28 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Dec 3, 2022 21:31:52 GMT 1 VLP Fan Club said:

Very sad didn’t realise he was in his 80’s now.

Regards to best in lifetime he comes nowhere near the levels of Messi in my opinion.

Nah. A million miles better than Messi. In an age when the balls were heavy he transformed football and won 3 world cups.

Pele was years ahead of his time.
I’d recommend to anyone to watch his display in the 1970 WCF
His weight of pass , touch and skill level but above all else , ability to continue playing when defenders were allowed to tackle him heavily, sets him apart from anyone else, in my opinion.

[yorik]

Greatest player for me brilliant in 1970 world cup better than both Messi and Maradona (cheating bastard)

[drayltonboy (independent)]

I don’t think it matters who was best, unless you’re stuck for a pub conversation, but he was definitely up there with the best.

[brighousebandbred]

Dec 3, 2022 20:11:13 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

On end of life care, sadly. Best player certainly in my lifetime.

Regards to best in a lifetime . I AGREE the only player ever to win 3 world cups and when I say win , without him they wouldn’t have been won. Regardless of who people think was or is the best ever , what an absolute LEGEND of the game.

[westislandterrier]

Dec 3, 2022 22:40:42 GMT 1 Porrohman said:

🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞 for the King
Pele 'still undergoing treatment and remains stable', his hospital in Sao Paulo says - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63846935

Positive message from him... before ma time of being a footy fan, but having seen highlights he was amazing indeed - 

Some nice messages on here for him... Well done to all for their best wishes and nice words ! 👍👍

[Captainslapper]

Dec 3, 2022 22:21:28 GMT 1 iangreaves said:

Dec 3, 2022 21:31:52 GMT 1 VLP Fan Club said:

Very sad didn’t realise he was in his 80’s now.

Regards to best in lifetime he comes nowhere near the levels of Messi in my opinion.

Nah. A million miles better than Messi. In an age when the balls were heavy he transformed football and won 3 world cups.

And he escaped from a German prisoner of war camp!!

To me hes behind Ronaldo, Messi and Maradona when it comes to best ever.
Pele is remembered for world cups and not much else, in an era where world cups were less competitive than they are now and players were much less fit... (but you could get booted up and down hill to be fair)
But he didnt have anything like the career the other 3 did.

But he's a legend of the game and very sad to see he's so unwell.

[est1908]

Dec 3, 2022 22:34:09 GMT 1 Terrier Ramone said:

Wishing him & his family all the best.

It is impossible to compare players of different generations, I just would love to see Pele with modern day training, diets etc. (& Cruyff also if banned from smoking!)

Let's just all agree he was a sensational player & wish him well.

It's the same in all sports - different era's/technology/opponents/media coverage/personal fitness as above

Federer/Nadal - Sampras - Borg/McEnroe - Perry

Woods - Nicklaus/Palmer/Player - Hogan - Old Tom Morris

MVG - Taylor - Bristow/Wilson/Lowe

O'Sullivan - Hendry - S.Davis - F.Davis

Hamilton - Senna - Schumacher - Lauda - Hill - Fangio

Cricketers - too many!

Footballers - too many!

Rugby, Basketball, American Football, Baseball,Fishing? Might all be the same, but I know nothing about them.....

Then there's Athletics and Winter sports! Still not comparable over the decades I've been alive, more about the quality of opposition regarding medals. World records get beaten with time in all diciplines...

[keithAM11532]

Dec 4, 2022 1:26:54 GMT 1 est1908 said:

Dec 3, 2022 22:34:09 GMT 1 Terrier Ramone said:

Wishing him & his family all the best.

It is impossible to compare players of different generations, I just would love to see Pele with modern day training, diets etc. (& Cruyff also if banned from smoking!)

Let's just all agree he was a sensational player & wish him well.

It's the same in all sports - different era's/technology/opponents/media coverage/personal fitness as above

Federer/Nadal - Sampras - Borg/McEnroe - Perry

Woods - Nicklaus/Palmer/Player - Hogan - Old Tom Morris

MVG - Taylor - Bristow/Wilson/Lowe

O'Sullivan - Hendry - S.Davis - F.Davis

Hamilton - Senna - Schumacher - Lauda - Hill - Fangio

Cricketers - too many!

Footballers - too many!

Rugby, Basketball, American Football, Baseball,Fishing? Might all be the same, but I know nothing about them.....

Then there's Athletics and Winter sports! Still not comparable over the decades I've been alive, more about the quality of opposition regarding medals. World records get beaten with time in all diciplines...

Exactly! when Rodger Bannister broke 4 minutes in 1954 he was the greatest of his generation. Now its 3:43 - poor old Rodg wouldn't even get a mention.

[joeyjoneslocker]

There aren’t many, if any, on this board who can genuinely debate and compare Pele to any modern day player. It’s not until you’ve seen a player in the flesh you truly understand how good they really are. He was without doubt the greatest player of his generation.
When his time comes to pass he will be honoured by every club in the world for the genius that he was.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

If he passes it will only spur the Brazilians on to win the trophy, bad news for everyone else.

[Million Dollar Babies]

I was watching some footage of the Leeds Bayern European Cup final and it was like slow motion compared to today's standard.

Nobody can say whether Pele would have had the athleticism and mentality to make it in the modern game but you can guarantee that Messi and Ronaldo would have made it in his day. That for me will always put modern day players ahead of those from years ago. Not only do they have outstanding ability, they are unbelievably fit and dedicate their whole life to being the best.

Messi just shades it over Ronaldo for me as he has that extra bit of natural class, the ball just sticks to his foot and he sees a picture of the play in his head unlike any other. We'll be lucky to see another like it.

[mightyterrier]

Didn’t think he was that great as I’m a tad too young to have seen him, but watching a montage on Twitter, and wow he was quite the player, seems to have had everything. Personally, despite the hand of God, I think Maradonna was a genius, best player of my lifetime, Zidane was the most graceful. I don’t enjoy watching Messi, and I think Rondaldo is just too mechanical, no doubting their efficacy, just don’t like watching either of them, I preferred watching Gaza!

[Bassingham Terrier]

Dec 4, 2022 10:13:09 GMT 1 mightyterrier said:

Didn’t think he was that great as I’m a tad too young to have seen him, but watching a montage on Twitter, and wow he was quite the player, seems to have had everything. Personally, despite the hand of God, I think Maradonna was a genius, best player of my lifetime, Zidane was the most graceful. I don’t enjoy watching Messi, and I think Rondaldo is just too mechanical, no doubting their efficacy, just don’t like watching either of them, I preferred watching Gaza!

So you're a strip fan then, yes? 

[Captainslapper]

Dec 4, 2022 8:56:11 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

There aren’t many, if any, on this board who can genuinely debate and compare Pele to any modern day player. It’s not until you’ve seen a player in the flesh you truly understand how good they really are. He was without doubt the greatest player of his generation.
When his time comes to pass he will be honoured by every club in the world for the genius that he was.

Think thats right and the only thing people should really be looking at if they want to be fair about it.

the professionalism , athleticism, speed and competitiveness of the game has moved on so much over the past 50 or 60 years its unfair to ty and compare eras really.

Dixie Dean was arguably the finest player in the English game between the wars but if you brought him forward in a time machine and plonked him in Evertons team now, he'd look like a bloke who'd won a competition to play.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Dec 4, 2022 8:56:11 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

There aren’t many, if any, on this board who can genuinely debate and compare Pele to any modern day player. It’s not until you’ve seen a player in the flesh you truly understand how good they really are. He was without doubt the greatest player of his generation.
When his time comes to pass he will be honoured by every club in the world for the genius that he was.

So very true.
Watching on TV you don’t see the work ethic of a player off the ball for example.

[Terriersmad]

It's very easy for European football fans not to appreciate Pele's greatness. Had he been born 20 years later he would have, like Maradona, have spent a significant amount of time playing in Europe, we'd have more video footage of him, and more European supporters would have seen him live. As it is, he spent his career in South America at a time when the standard between Europe and South America was truly comparable; European football hadn't begun to have the money behind it that it would start to have from the late 1970s onwards.

What footage we do have of Pele comes from World Cups and grainy archive footage, but just from that you can see how special he was. Touch, awareness, skill, but also a real physicality. We can't compare across eras, but I greatly suspect you could put 1970 Pele into 2022 football without the benefit of months of modern sport science and he'd instantly stand out. He might only last 60 minutes, but that isn't the point! He had a footballing brain, alongside a physique, that would get him into any of the modern great teams. Imagine Manchester City or Liverpool with him leading the line. Mouth-watering.

What is also clear is that he was a pioneer. He did things that had never been seen on a football pitch before. I'm not sure who else you can really say changed the game like he did - maybe Cruyff, when you bear in mind his off-field achievements alongside his playing career. When you watch the footage from 1958 and 1970, you can see how Pele had honed his game, and how he had become the ultimate in unplayable. Get tight? He'd drop deep and create. Drop off? He'd put himself on the last man. Allow a cross? He had a prodigious leap that meant he could compete in the air despite not being the biggest of men. Get him with his back to goal? He'd be able to create space for another. He could score and create.

I'm not going to put one player on a pedastal above all others. The debate of who the greatest ever is bores me. But when Pele passes, all can be in agreement that he was a true great, and someone who we may never see the likes of again.

[Captainslapper]

The comment about the footage available works both ways and IMO much much more in Pele's favour than against him.

We ONLY get to see footage of Pele doing something great. We dont get to see all the misses, loose passes, the mundane games where he wasnt that great at all. Its like watching someones highlights reel.

Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo have all played in an era where we have seen them play a lot.. all the games, all the moments are out there for full scrutiny.. the good and the bad.

[workshyfop]

I don’t think this thread should be about that old “who was the best” argument. By all means, start a separate one to discuss that. We should just pay tribute to him and celebrate his life, achievements and legacy on here and hope he stays strong.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Another thing about Edson Aranres Do Nacimento.

He was a gentleman on the pitch.

Much like Eusebio, rather than be annoyed that Banks pulled off that wonder save he went up to him and congratulated him.

Compare that with the petulance and often terrible attitudes of today.

[3Pipe]

Dec 4, 2022 16:14:41 GMT 1 overtonterrierspirit said:

Another thing about Edson Aranres Do Nacimento.

He was a gentleman on the pitch.

Much like Eusebio, rather than be annoyed that Banks pulled off that wonder save he went up to him and congratulated him.

Compare that with the petulance and often terrible attitudes of today.

re Eusebio. Are you thinking of Alex Stepney for Man U in the '68 European Cup final. Stepney made a great save from Eusebio who promptly walked up to Stepney to shake is hand. Stepney waved him away as if to say 'get away ya soft bugger'.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Dec 4, 2022 16:18:49 GMT 1 3Pipe said:

Dec 4, 2022 16:14:41 GMT 1 overtonterrierspirit said:

Another thing about Edson Aranres Do Nacimento.

He was a gentleman on the pitch.

Much like Eusebio, rather than be annoyed that Banks pulled off that wonder save he went up to him and congratulated him.

Compare that with the petulance and often terrible attitudes of today.

re Eusebio. Are you thinking of Alex Stepney for Man U in the '68 European Cup final. Stepney made a great save from Eusebio who promptly walked up to Stepney to shake is hand. Stepney waved him away as if to say 'get away ya soft bugger'.

Yes that’s the one.
A great final that one.

[htfctx]

It is not a question of Pele today, it is whether today's ballerinas could play back then.



Check out the battle of Montevideo

[Oblong of Dreams]

Dec 4, 2022 15:21:36 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

The comment about the footage available works both ways and IMO much much more in Pele's favour than against him.

We ONLY get to see footage of Pele doing something great. We dont get to see all the misses, loose passes, the mundane games where he wasnt that great at all. Its like watching someones highlights reel.

Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo have all played in an era where we have seen them play a lot.. all the games, all the moments are out there for full scrutiny.. the good and the bad.

Fantasy Football League did a skit called "Pele was Shite" where they showed a short montage of him miscueing shots, falling over, etc. They only had enough footage to run the segment once, mind.

My dad had a George Best highlights VHS, which had a quote on the box from Pele describing Best as the greatest player ever (or words to that effect, it's been a while!). I've no idea if Pele ever actually said that, but if you asked Lionel Messi or especially Cristiano Ronaldo who they thought the best player in the World was, I can't imagine they'd name anyone other than themselves without a qualification.