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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Feb 1, 2023 15:20:18 GMT 1
I think most of us would bite his arm off right now to give us record-breaking 43-match unbeaten run, and getting to the playoffs twice. Far better than the present incumbent. At the end of the unbeaten run we were lower in the league than when it started! Soton meanwhile had lost quite a few, won promotion and were near the top of the division above. For the most part the unbeaten run was dire football. The philosophy had changed after the Millwall play off defeat. That's why most fans weren't too disappointed with his sacking Doesn't matter, he did a very decent job overall. |
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Post by Metch on Feb 1, 2023 15:27:46 GMT 1
DATM narcissist syndrome. If no ones there to see the toys come out of the pram , who'll put them back for next time? You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 1, 2023 15:30:13 GMT 1
At the end of the unbeaten run we were lower in the league than when it started! Soton meanwhile had lost quite a few, won promotion and were near the top of the division above. For the most part the unbeaten run was dire football. The philosophy had changed after the Millwall play off defeat. That's why most fans weren't too disappointed with his sacking Doesn't matter, he did a very decent job overall. Sacking him and replacing him with Grayson proved to be the correct decision,, we went up. I doubt we would have done under Clark. Just didnt seem to have it when push came to shove and his over-emotive demeanour spread to the players IMO. It needed a cooler head than Clark had to get over the line. |
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Post by Metch on Feb 1, 2023 15:32:36 GMT 1
DATM narcissist syndrome. If no ones there to see the toys come out of the pram , who'll put them back for next time? You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 1, 2023 15:44:36 GMT 1
If no ones there to see the toys come out of the pram , who'll put them back for next time? You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 1, 2023 15:54:59 GMT 1
You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. As much as I agree with you slaps. For a majority of teams that 1 goal per game beats us. Yes, we have looked much better defensively. But we have had a little luck too. QPR away being the main 1. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 1, 2023 16:07:48 GMT 1
Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. As much as I agree with you slaps. For a majority of teams that 1 goal per game beats us. Yes, we have looked much better defensively. But we have had a little luck too. QPR away being the main 1. Well yeah, scoring goals remains a big problem obviously. Weve signed a few offensive players in this window so hopefully one or two of them will start to get us the goals we need. But at least we have a sound defensive base to build on, and with Turton more or less back it should be a little sounder still. |
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Post by Metch on Feb 1, 2023 16:14:02 GMT 1
You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. Do you think we have a good manager? I never threw my toys out with Corberan. Even in our darkest moments I thought he had something. He was trying to polish a turd and in the end, guess what, he did! But with Fotheringham, we have the antithesis of Corberan. He will not succeed as a manager but by some miracle he keeps us up, I'll be as happy as the next fan. He is dismantling the good things that we had. Nurturing loan players and demoralising our young talent. Jackson, Diarra, High, Camara, exalted then dropped. |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Feb 1, 2023 16:17:19 GMT 1
Lee Clark could do a better job with this team than MMF. Discuss… As much as he has failed everywhere he has been since and didn't success his actual objective here. Those 3 seasons under LC were entertaining. We attacked and had flair players in Pilks and roberts. Had a goalscorer in a younger Rhodes and a work horse who's contributions in Novak were key. We had a leader in Peter Clark who seemed to rally everyone. Give me that period over this any day of the week. Absolute rubbish - in those days we NEVER had at least FIVE Or SIX goalkeepers at this level at the same time. We do have today. |
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Post by dugnet on Feb 1, 2023 16:35:58 GMT 1
[/quote]Well yeah, scoring goals remains a big problem obviously.
Weve signed a few offensive players in this window so hopefully one or two of them will start to get us the goals we need.
But at least we have a sound defensive base to build on, and with Turton more or less back it should be a little sounder still.[/quote]
So I deduce from your assessment here that you are prepared to accept that scoring goals is a "big problem", but when people raise concerns, after another appallingly negative performance, they are having a "hissy-fit"?
I haven't seen one remotely entertaining game all season at home, I haven't been away (which in it's self tells a story), and our likelihood of dominating a game and winning (Hull and Rotherham aside - who were both equally dreadful on the day) has been a rarity.
To present an argument that people don't have the right to be frustrated with what they are watching, but accept we don't look like scoring, seems incongruously contrary and more than a little bizarre.
Without getting into our inevitable debate about why we got here what we have witnessed on the pitch has been lousy. Not just lousy, continually lousy, but, in your opinion, people getting frustrated is just throwing their toys out of the pram. If you really have that opinion then fine that's your choice but for heavens sake don't castigate those who are incredibly disappointed with what they are seeing, week in week out.
One thing we might agree on is this: This is a very weak/even league, that is our best hope of escaping this predicament. I appreciate that one result in isolation will not relegate us but continually abject performances where we don't threaten to score goals and win games will.
This next run of games needs to see an improvement and it needs to see points on the board. I very much hope those players introduced are able to help and that MF finds a formula that works. If he doesn't please spare us the "shit happens" mindset. It might be true to a degree but if you keep doing the same things and expect to get different results then don't be surprised if/when you fail.
I accept we are where we are, I also accept things will eventually change. However, right now we are in one of those seasons where nothing is going right and there is little evidence it is likely to improve. I don't feel guilty about express my, entirely reasonable, frustrations at that.
The other thing is that there are lessons to be learned from everything that has gone on. It is true we may have fresh faces and ideas in the future but we need to be honest, look at what has happened and determine where things could have been better. By doing so we can make changes that will help us move forward.
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Post by ringdisco on Feb 1, 2023 16:45:08 GMT 1
He agrees we were in the playoffs 9 months ago 😊 That and the bit about not having decent PL loans this time. So two bits that arent rubbish.  You actually believe we don't have a clown in charge? Hahahah |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 1, 2023 16:45:09 GMT 1
Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. Do you think we have a good manager? I never threw my toys out with Corberan. Even in our darkest moments I thought he had something. He was trying to polish a turd and in the end, guess what, he did! But with Fotheringham, we have the antithesis of Corberan. He will not succeed as a manager but by some miracle he keeps us up, I'll be as happy as the next fan. He is dismantling the good things that we had. Nurturing loan players and demoralising our young talent. Jackson, Diarra, High, Camara, exalted then dropped. Corboran had a good selection of players to choose from last season. There was no turd being polished. Listen he did a great job,. wasnt particularly pretty most of the time but it was effective. We were great on set pieces.. we dropped lucky with Thomas looking a great player particularly first half of the season,,we had the best keeper in the division and we barely had any injuries throughout meaning we could play a consistent side. Even Ward stayed fit! Fotheringham.. hes not had a player like Thomas on anything like the streak of form he had.. and hes had a terrible injury situation to deal with which is only now cleared up. Do I think hes a good manager? I honestly dont know. He does things I dont get.. where is camera, where is Jackson...but on the other hand hes made us difficult to score against and hes had us achieving 'staying up' form for a good while now, better than a host of other clubs. And thats despite injuries being a big challenge in that time ( something Corboran totally failed to cope with in his first season here). I think hell keep us up, pretty comfortably by the end, but then I think its likely he'll be removed anyway as soon as the new owners take control. . |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 1, 2023 16:48:48 GMT 1
As much as he has failed everywhere he has been since and didn't success his actual objective here. Those 3 seasons under LC were entertaining. We attacked and had flair players in Pilks and roberts. Had a goalscorer in a younger Rhodes and a work horse who's contributions in Novak were key. We had a leader in Peter Clark who seemed to rally everyone. Give me that period over this any day of the week. Absolute rubbish - in those days we NEVER had at least FIVE Or SIX goalkeepers at this level at the same time. We do have today. What has my reply got to do with goalkeepers? |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Feb 1, 2023 16:51:40 GMT 1
I know, I'll start a thread that just repeats everything that's been said a zillion times over on all the other threads. You are absolutely right but the fact that people, me more than most, are still making the same points, and nothing happens,tells you how frustrating things have been allowed to get. It is a stuck record but it's because people can't believe what's been allowed to happen. But you are right it is a bit futile and possibly tiresome. You expected your comments on here to affect the running of the club? *Pic of Wrexham owner, doing face palm* |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 1, 2023 16:57:49 GMT 1
Well yeah, scoring goals remains a big problem obviously. Weve signed a few offensive players in this window so hopefully one or two of them will start to get us the goals we need. But at least we have a sound defensive base to build on, and with Turton more or less back it should be a little sounder still.[/quote] So I deduce from your assessment here that you are prepared to accept that scoring goals is a "big problem", but when people raise concerns, after another appallingly negative performance, they are having a "hissy-fit"?I haven't seen one remotely entertaining game all season at home, I haven't been away (which in it's self tells a story), and our likelihood of dominating a game and winning (Hull and Rotherham aside - who were both equally dreadful on the day) has been a rarity. To present an argument that people don't have the right to be frustrated with what they are watching, but accept we don't look like scoring, seems incongruously contrary and more than a little bizarre. Without getting into our inevitable debate about why we got here what we have witnessed on the pitch has been lousy. Not just lousy, continually lousy, but, in your opinion, people getting frustrated is just throwing their toys out of the pram. If you really have that opinion then fine that's your choice but for heavens sake don't castigate those who are incredibly disappointed with what they are seeing, week in week out. One thing we might agree on is this: This is a very weak/even league, that is our best hope of escaping this predicament. I appreciate that one result in isolation will not relegate us but continually abject performances where we don't threaten to score goals and win games will. This next run of games needs to see an improvement and it needs to see points on the board. I very much hope those players introduced are able to help and that MF finds a formula that works. If he doesn't please spare us the "shit happens" mindset. It might be true to a degree but if you keep doing the same things and expect to get different results then don't be surprised if/when you fail. I accept we are where we are, I also accept things will eventually change. However, right now we are in one of those seasons where nothing is going right and there is little evidence it is likely to improve. I don't feel guilty about express my, entirely reasonable, frustrations at that. The other thing is that there are lessons to be learned from everything that has gone on. It is true we may have fresh faces and ideas in the future but we need to be honest, look at what has happened and determine where things could have been better. By doing so we can make changes that will help us move forward. [/quote] Come on now mate... theres world of difference between debating issues and frustrations with the team ( as you do ) and the laughable, over exaggerated tantrums and lashing out that are all over this board after any bad result,, or draw.. or keeper being recalled from his loan.. or any number of other things thats gets the toys flying about the nursery at the moment. No idea why you think I have a problem with being frustrated. I dont at all. But its how you do it and whether the solution is just to expect some bloke to throw more and more of his money at it. Ive never said we dont have a problem scoring. 16 goals against in the last 16 games is impressive... 12 goals for isnt good enough and needs improving. Or that the football we play is any good. It mostly isnt. Its about results. Dont care how crap it is to watch if we win.. same goes if were at the top end of the table.. and it often was crap to watch, just more successfully crap. |
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crux
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by crux on Feb 1, 2023 17:09:20 GMT 1
As much as he has failed everywhere he has been since and didn't success his actual objective here. Those 3 seasons under LC were entertaining. We attacked and had flair players in Pilks and roberts. Had a goalscorer in a younger Rhodes and a work horse who's contributions in Novak were key. We had a leader in Peter Clark who seemed to rally everyone. Give me that period over this any day of the week. Absolute rubbish - in those days we NEVER had at least FIVE Or SIX goalkeepers at this level at the same time. We do have today. We don't today, or at least not available for selection. We currently have 4, plus Nicholls out injured until next season and Chapman is likely to go out on loan now to get some games, so possibly only 3. Schofield is out on loan until the end of the season, at which his contract expires. At the start of next season, assuming no-one is bought or sold, only Nicholls, Bilo and Chapman remain under contract. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Feb 1, 2023 17:20:18 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1:
Portsmouth
Sheffield Wednesday
Derby County
Ipswich Town
Bolton Wanderers
Are we bigger than these Clubs?.
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Feb 1, 2023 17:24:14 GMT 1
You've been very quiet since Saturday, a bit like Brexit, run out of facts to back your argument, so let's patronise everyone Wake up and smell the coffee!! Did we lose? I try and avoid this place after a defeat because its really hard not to patronise people who are lashing out and having a hissy fit. Some must have barely had time to draw breath and wipe the snot from their chin since the hissy fit they had when Schofield came back from his Hibs loan, which apparently showed what a car crash this shit club is, etc etc blah blah blah It cant have been one of the many 'must win' games were currently facing because I had a look and were not relegated yet. Ill give you another stat to cheer you up / annoy you, depending on your outlook. 16 league games since our 3-3 draw at luton where Mbete looked all Gordon Tucker until he got hooked at half time. And weve conceded 16 goals in them. 1 goal per game. Neither Wagner's promotion side or Corborans play off side had a defensive record as good as 1 goal conceded per game. So, whilst the attack is still an obvious problem at least the defence has been looking reliably strong for over a third of a season now. Come on Cap'n - you're better than the "hissy fit", "wipe the snot" "blah blah blah" rubbish. You used to debate very effectively (that is not meant patronisingly (your word)) then you got hung up on the "entitled" argument and nearly every one of your posts accuses nearly every one of demanding Hoyle spends more money when the majority of posts do not say that. I wondered how/when "the few" - yourself, Prepare etc - would post after Coventry (the latest in a long line of debacles this season) and we had to wait but your "16 games" answered for me - - why 16 games ? Why not take 20 games, or 10 games ? - are you genuinely happy with our results in the last 16 games ? - do you not think the vast majority of our performances in those 16 games have been poor to very poor ? - are you now happy - bearing in mind our weaknesses all over the pitch - that we now have 5 goalkeepers ??! - don't you think that "our defence looks reliably strong" is because we play 5 at the back with usually 4 defensive midfielders ? How the hell Rhodes ever touches the ball never mind scores is a miracle. I hate the "happy clappers"/"entitled cry babies" insults - we should all be better than that - but if the likes of Bromby and Fotheringham keep apparently making the same mistakes week in week out then surely it's not unreasonable for frustrated supporters to express their disappointment or anger (I'd love to but I can't echo Allan's argument of "it's only a game etc "). |
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Post by conman on Feb 1, 2023 17:27:49 GMT 1
Lee Clark could do a better job with this team than MMF. Discuss… Get Pulis in.. Get Putin in for me , probably a good chance of getting into Europe too.. |
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Post by Rickys mellons on Feb 1, 2023 17:39:10 GMT 1
I'm trying to find a word stronger than despair tonight, but I'm stuck. It's almost like a bad joke now. Two keepers on deadline day, both coming from our wierd new relationship with that fat Greek guy.
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Post by workshyfop on Feb 1, 2023 17:50:29 GMT 1
I'm trying to find a word stronger than despair tonight, but I'm stuck. It's almost like a bad joke now. Two keepers on deadline day, both coming from our wierd new relationship with that fat Greek guy. It’s not new. We lost our manager, right back, left back and star player to him last summer. We didn’t complain about the Wembley decisions and no one knows if there was an agreement in place about the gate receipts or whatever has previously happened. All in all, it’s either a sad state of affairs or dodgy as fuck! |
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by prepare on Feb 1, 2023 17:51:46 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. no we arnt |
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calken
Darren Bullock Terrier
[M0:2]
Posts: 879
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Post by calken on Feb 1, 2023 17:52:44 GMT 1
Before MMF, how many available managers looked at us and thought "Even I couldn't polish that turd?". This doesn't excuse the fact we are in the relegation zone but I'd rather support the club that aimlessly wandering around looking for a silver bullet.
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Post by morleyterrier on Feb 1, 2023 18:00:19 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. no we arnt Bigger Clubs than us fans have had to accept it. We might have to do the same. |
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Post by Big Ern on Feb 1, 2023 18:09:21 GMT 1
Do you think we have a good manager? I never threw my toys out with Corberan. Even in our darkest moments I thought he had something. He was trying to polish a turd and in the end, guess what, he did! But with Fotheringham, we have the antithesis of Corberan. He will not succeed as a manager but by some miracle he keeps us up, I'll be as happy as the next fan. He is dismantling the good things that we had. Nurturing loan players and demoralising our young talent. Jackson, Diarra, High, Camara, exalted then dropped. Corboran had a good selection of players to choose from last season. There was no turd being polished. Listen he did a great job,. wasnt particularly pretty most of the time but it was effective. We were great on set pieces.. we dropped lucky with Thomas looking a great player particularly first half of the season,,we had the best keeper in the division and we barely had any injuries throughout meaning we could play a consistent side. Even Ward stayed fit! Fotheringham.. hes not had a player like Thomas on anything like the streak of form he had.. and hes had a terrible injury situation to deal with which is only now cleared up. Do I think hes a good manager? I honestly dont know. He does things I dont get.. where is camera, where is Jackson...but on the other hand hes made us difficult to score against and hes had us achieving 'staying up' form for a good while now, better than a host of other clubs. And thats despite injuries being a big challenge in that time ( something Corboran totally failed to cope with in his first season here). I think hell keep us up, pretty comfortably by the end, but then I think its likely he'll be removed anyway as soon as the new owners take control. . Sorry Slapps but I couldn't disagree more. You say our form over thr last 16 games has us out of the relegation zone but how about the recent form that truly matters. Nothing I have seen suggests we will comfortably avoid relegation, especially since we have been in the bottom 3 for each and every game this season. As for Fotheringham being binned when the new owners take control, I'm sorry I can't see that either. If its true that our being taken over relies on us climbing away from the relegation zone then I don't think it's going to happen as all signs point to us going ⬇️ |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Posts: 3,344
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Post by wigster on Feb 1, 2023 18:17:45 GMT 1
Absolute rubbish - in those days we NEVER had at least FIVE Or SIX goalkeepers at this level at the same time. We do have today. We don't today, or at least not available for selection. We currently have 4, plus Nicholls out injured until next season and Chapman is likely to go out on loan now to get some games, so possibly only 3. Schofield is out on loan until the end of the season, at which his contract expires. At the start of next season, assuming no-one is bought or sold, only Nicholls, Bilo and Chapman remain under contract. We've actually got NINE goalies on the books... |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,344
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Post by wigster on Feb 1, 2023 18:19:33 GMT 1
Absolute rubbish - in those days we NEVER had at least FIVE Or SIX goalkeepers at this level at the same time. We do have today. What has my reply got to do with goalkeepers? Sorry rockwall - I didn't make myself clear. You've misread my pathetic sarcasm. Apologies. |
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calken
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Posts: 879
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Post by calken on Feb 1, 2023 18:30:04 GMT 1
We've actually got NINE goalies on the books... Could we put them all in goal at the same time? |
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Post by rockwall on Feb 1, 2023 18:37:11 GMT 1
What has my reply got to do with goalkeepers? Sorry rockwall - I didn't make myself clear. You've misread my pathetic sarcasm. Apologies. Long day pal! Apologies too. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Feb 1, 2023 18:43:47 GMT 1
We've actually got NINE goalies on the books... Could we put them all in goal at the same time? Rhodes wouldn't be any less isolated than he was last week |
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