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Post by lankystreak on Feb 1, 2023 20:58:57 GMT 1
Sacking him and replacing him with Grayson proved to be the correct decision,, we went up. I doubt we would have done under Clark. Just didnt seem to have it when push came to shove and his over-emotive demeanour spread to the players IMO. It needed a cooler head than Clark had to get over the line. I don't really buy this commonly repeated "proof" that it was the right decision. Lee Clark was sacked in February with us 4th, just 4 points off automatic, 2 points behind Wednesday, 4points behind United, and safely in the play off zone by 9 points. Grayson took over and we went on to lose a huge amount of ground to Charlton, Wednesday (finished 13points above us) and United. We lost more games under Grayson than we lost in nearly twice the amount of games with Clark at the helm that season. All the evidence looking at the table, and looking at how we performed throughout that season is that Lee Clark would have been at least equally as successful as Grayson ultimately and thankfully was. Grayson was just very lucky. Ched Evans actions in Rhyl got us promoted as with him in the team Sheff Utd would have pissed automatic and that Wednesday team was flying and would've destroyed us in the play offs |
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Post by Teddington Ted on Feb 1, 2023 21:01:51 GMT 1
Football is just ridiculous really. Premier League winners, FA Cup winners and Champions League Quarter Finalists in last 6/7 years and end up in that position. Cannot see how football is sustainable in its current form. Yep. But I don’t think it’s been sustainable for 60 years. Clubs have always relied on local benefactors. The entire pyramid depends on external funding and that’s not changing any time soon. If anything, fans demand the money required to increase year on year…just read this board! |
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Post by turbo2 on Feb 1, 2023 21:03:58 GMT 1
Do you think we have a good manager? I never threw my toys out with Corberan. Even in our darkest moments I thought he had something. He was trying to polish a turd and in the end, guess what, he did! But with Fotheringham, we have the antithesis of Corberan. He will not succeed as a manager but by some miracle he keeps us up, I'll be as happy as the next fan. He is dismantling the good things that we had. Nurturing loan players and demoralising our young talent. Jackson, Diarra, High, Camara, exalted then dropped. Corboran had a good selection of players to choose from last season. There was no turd being polished. Listen he did a great job,. wasnt particularly pretty most of the time but it was effective. We were great on set pieces.. we dropped lucky with Thomas looking a great player particularly first half of the season,,we had the best keeper in the division and we barely had any injuries throughout meaning we could play a consistent side. Even Ward stayed fit! Fotheringham.. hes not had a player like Thomas on anything like the streak of form he had.. and hes had a terrible injury situation to deal with which is only now cleared up. Do I think hes a good manager? I honestly dont know. He does things I dont get.. where is camera, where is Jackson...but on the other hand hes made us difficult to score against and hes had us achieving 'staying up' form for a good while now, better than a host of other clubs. And thats despite injuries being a big challenge in that time ( something Corboran totally failed to cope with in his first season here). I think hell keep us up, pretty comfortably by the end, but then I think its likely he'll be removed anyway as soon as the new owners take control. . I agree with most of that slaps. The injury list last season was nothing like this and it’s caused us huge problems from the start. Add toff and Lewis leaving and sorbas form falling away. But I’m not convinced we’ll stay yet, never mind comfortably. Huge 5 games coming up. |
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Post by turbo2 on Feb 1, 2023 21:04:48 GMT 1
Rhodes wouldn't be any less isolated than he was last week I still maintain with the right service Rhodes can score plenty for us. I think he gets himself in the right areas and has shown he can still find the back of the net. Right service?? Had three chances on Saturday and never troubled the keeper. |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Feb 1, 2023 21:09:53 GMT 1
Rhodes wouldn't be any less isolated than he was last week I still maintain with the right service Rhodes can score plenty for us. I think he gets himself in the right areas and has shown he can still find the back of the net. He also drags defenders away from areas creating space for others unfortunately we don't have players in that space. we don't play to his strengths if we did he's still probably one of best strikers in this league |
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Post by morleyterrier on Feb 1, 2023 21:13:30 GMT 1
I still maintain with the right service Rhodes can score plenty for us. I think he gets himself in the right areas and has shown he can still find the back of the net. He also drags defenders away from areas creating space for others unfortunately we don't have players in that space. we don't play to his strengths if we did he's still probably one of best strikers in this league Here here. |
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Post by rugbyterrier on Feb 1, 2023 21:15:43 GMT 1
A song for Slapps
" he will keep us up comfortably "
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Feb 1, 2023 21:17:57 GMT 1
I still maintain with the right service Rhodes can score plenty for us. I think he gets himself in the right areas and has shown he can still find the back of the net. He also drags defenders away from areas creating space for others unfortunately we don't have players in that space. we don't play to his strengths if we did he's still probably one of best strikers in this league We're the third team in a row where he has looked a million miles from the best striker in the league. You can't keep blaming everyone else forever. He simply isn't anywhere close to the player he once was |
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Post by townarentbest on Feb 1, 2023 21:43:40 GMT 1
I don't really buy this commonly repeated "proof" that it was the right decision. Lee Clark was sacked in February with us 4th, just 4 points off automatic, 2 points behind Wednesday, 4points behind United, and safely in the play off zone by 9 points. Grayson took over and we went on to lose a huge amount of ground to Charlton, Wednesday (finished 13points above us) and United. We lost more games under Grayson than we lost in nearly twice the amount of games with Clark at the helm that season. All the evidence looking at the table, and looking at how we performed throughout that season is that Lee Clark would have been at least equally as successful as Grayson ultimately and thankfully was. Ok, but Clark 'might' have got us promoted is the best you can claim for him...Grayson DID get us promoted. So to me that is proof enough it was the right decision. We'd only won 4 of the previous 12 games when clark got the boot. I think Hoyle had lost faith in him plus their relationship had been soured by Clark coveting the Leicester job so obviously. Utter codswallop! That's akin to suggesting we made the right decision to sell Marcus Stewart because Clyde Wijhnhard ended up being top goal scorer that season and totally ignoring that Stewart MIGHT have scored more than him had he stayed. I think you're trying to say his relationship was soured because Lee Clark was open and transparent. |
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by ambryboy on Feb 1, 2023 22:01:19 GMT 1
There seem to be some strong opinions being voiced here. After all it is a forum. However, can I make a point that I have more important things to do in my life than have an opinion on the (alleged) goings on at the club which I follow on match days. Indifference deserves a voice, which is why I am moved to make this opinion known. I remember when Richard and Judy used to have a paid telephone survey on the day's hot topic. You'd have to pay 20p to ring up to record your opinion on a popular matter of the day. The options were 'Yes', 'No' or 'Don't Care'. Amazingly. Incredibly. People used to take the time and money to record a 'Don't care' vote. I used to think "Who the hell would do that?!" Now I know. People like you. Thank you for your post. We'll file it in the 'not right bothered either way' silo. Stick it in the Leicester file  |
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Post by turbo2 on Feb 1, 2023 22:13:01 GMT 1
He also drags defenders away from areas creating space for others unfortunately we don't have players in that space. we don't play to his strengths if we did he's still probably one of best strikers in this league We're the third team in a row where he has looked a million miles from the best striker in the league. You can't keep blaming everyone else forever. He simply isn't anywhere close to the player he once was I said exactly that when we signed him. Chuffs sake. Look up his stats. Even when he play around 40 games for a Norwich side that walked this league he hardly scored. I do think in his defence he needs a partner though. Didn’t ever think we’d continue to play him upfront on his own |
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Post by terrier86 on Feb 1, 2023 22:32:00 GMT 1
Going back to the Lee Clark debate (and also if the worst were to happen) there were some tough teams in L1....
08/09 - 1. LEICESTER 2. PETERBOROUGH 3. MK DONS 4. LEEDS 5. MILWALL 6. SCUNTHORPE others 9. TOWN 16. BRIGHTON
09/10 - 1. NORWICH 2. LEEDS 3. MIllWALL 4. CHARLTON 5. SWINDON 6. TOWN others....7. SOUTHAMPTON (with pts deduction) 9. BRENTFORD 13. BRIGHTON
10/11 - 1. BRIGHTON 2. SOUTHAMPTON 3. TOWN 4. PETERBOROUGH 5. MK DONS 6. BOURNEMOUTH others...11. BRENTFORD 15. SHEFF WEDS
11/12 - 1. CHARLTON 2. SHEFF WEDS 3. SHEFF UTD 4. TOWN 5. MK DONS 6. STEVENAGE others 9. BRENTFORD 11. BOURNEMOUTH
Teams currently in Prem: LEICS, LEEDS, BRIGHTON, BOURNEMOUTH, BRENTFORD, SOUTHAMPTON plus SHEFF UTD and NORWICH with lots of time in prem so 8 clubs. While next year would be tough, if we got stability off the pitch with a takeover you would still fancy top 6.
23/24 potentially; TOWN, IPSWICH, DERBY, BOLTON, BARNSLEY, WIGAN, BLACKPOOL.
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Post by Tim Nice But Dim on Feb 1, 2023 22:43:39 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. I would say only Wed and Derby are bigger than us the others certainly aren't. Charlton and Barnsley and Plymouth are not bigger than us but certainly there have been some big clubs on league one, Villa, Wolves and even Man City have all been there and until the mid seventies we had never been out of the top two divisions. |
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Post by runner76 on Feb 1, 2023 22:45:57 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. I would say only Wed and Derby are bigger than us the others certainly aren't. Charlton and Barnsley and Plymouth are not bigger than us but certainly there have been some big clubs on league one, Villa, Wolves and even Man City have all been there and until the mid seventies we had never been out of the top two divisions. Yeah but from the late 60s until a couple of years ago we’d done fuck all |
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Post by 28901 on Feb 1, 2023 23:22:17 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. I would say only Wed and Derby are bigger than us the others certainly aren't. Charlton and Barnsley and Plymouth are not bigger than us but certainly there have been some big clubs on league one, Villa, Wolves and even Man City have all been there and until the mid seventies we had never been out of the top two divisions. Its hard to compare. Ipswich and Portsmouth have more fans but they are fairly big places with very little competition for support. Derby and Wednesday are significantly bugger. Bolton are almost identical sizewise in my reckoning. |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Feb 2, 2023 0:44:49 GMT 1
He also drags defenders away from areas creating space for others unfortunately we don't have players in that space. we don't play to his strengths if we did he's still probably one of best strikers in this league We're the third team in a row where he has looked a million miles from the best striker in the league. You can't keep blaming everyone else forever. He simply isn't anywhere close to the player he once was Agree he is not the player he was but as other teams before and us now don't play to his strength Being on his own lumping balls up not his game give him service into the 18yard box and a support striker/10 he will score |
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 2, 2023 10:30:00 GMT 1
Teams relegated from Championship and in league 1: Portsmouth Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Ipswich Town Bolton Wanderers Are we bigger than these Clubs?. I would say only Wed and Derby are bigger than us the others certainly aren't. Charlton and Barnsley and Plymouth are not bigger than us but certainly there have been some big clubs on league one, Villa, Wolves and even Man City have all been there and until the mid seventies we had never been out of the top two divisions. Are Derby bigger ? They had a couple of seasons at the top in the early to mid 70's but bugger all else. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 2, 2023 10:43:51 GMT 1
Ok, but Clark 'might' have got us promoted is the best you can claim for him...Grayson DID get us promoted. So to me that is proof enough it was the right decision. We'd only won 4 of the previous 12 games when clark got the boot. I think Hoyle had lost faith in him plus their relationship had been soured by Clark coveting the Leicester job so obviously. Utter codswallop! That's akin to suggesting we made the right decision to sell Marcus Stewart because Clyde Wijhnhard ended up being top goal scorer that season and totally ignoring that Stewart MIGHT have scored more than him had he stayed. I think you're trying to say his relationship was soured because Lee Clark was open and transparent. Its not akin to that at all. Stewart was CLEARLY a better goalscorer than Clyde Wijnhard.. not one person would think otherwise... there was NOTHING to suggest Clark was more likely to take us up than Grayson. In fact the opposite, with his previous failures and Graysons previous successes. Im bewildered as to how anyone can say it wasnt the right decision to make that managerial change... it worked.. we went up. The alternative was we 'might' have gone up, but probably not. After the two previous failures Hoyle had stuck with Clark for another attempt when he probably considered a change at that point. And then in the middle of that third attempt Clark was getting giddy in radio interviews about Leicester being interested in him. I think that soured the relationship, but ultimately what got clark the sack was that Hoyle didnt think he would take us up and that someone calmer and more proven would.. and history shows he called it right IMO. |
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Post by Floyds on Feb 2, 2023 13:27:46 GMT 1
I would have sacked Clark after we lost to Millwall away in the playoffs. Which I think was before our unbeaten run.
Looking back to the backing he got puts today's issues into stark contrast.
Didn't DH say before the cyclists set off to Southend, "Sean Jarvis' grandma could get us promoted"? (or similar). Might be making it up - a few years ago now obviously.
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Post by townarentbest on Feb 2, 2023 13:34:59 GMT 1
Utter codswallop! That's akin to suggesting we made the right decision to sell Marcus Stewart because Clyde Wijhnhard ended up being top goal scorer that season and totally ignoring that Stewart MIGHT have scored more than him had he stayed. I think you're trying to say his relationship was soured because Lee Clark was open and transparent. Its not akin to that at all. Stewart was CLEARLY a better goalscorer than Clyde Wijnhard.. not one person would think otherwise... there was NOTHING to suggest Clark was more likely to take us up than Grayson. In fact the opposite, with his previous failures and Graysons previous successes. Im bewildered as to how anyone can say it wasnt the right decision to make that managerial change... it worked.. we went up. The alternative was we 'might' have gone up, but probably not. After the two previous failures Hoyle had stuck with Clark for another attempt when he probably considered a change at that point. And then in the middle of that third attempt Clark was getting giddy in radio interviews about Leicester being interested in him. I think that soured the relationship, but ultimately what got clark the sack was that Hoyle didnt think he would take us up and that someone calmer and more proven would.. and history shows he called it right IMO. Given Stewart and Wijnhard's goal scoring stats across their careers are VERY similar (with Clyde actually scoring MORE goals per game) - then your opening statement and presumption is flawed. They were different players who brought different things to their games. Not sure why you're bewildered on Clark v Grayson. It was a decision that worked out - but what we don't and won't ever know is if it would have been a BETTER / MORE RIGHT to keep Clark in situ. It doesn't mean that the decision was proven to be a 'right call'. What you're suggesting is a bit like saying that if we avoid relegation by a point on the final day, then appointing Fotheringham was the right choice, he delivered what was asked. But it WOULDNT BE. The right choice would be to bring in someone better, and a more right choice would have been to bring that better person in, instead of Danny Schofield. (notwithstanding Fotheringham may well ( he won't!) go on to lead us to the Championship title next season and be lauded as a hero - but as things stand without benefit of a time machine, thats the position). It was a big risk....there was EVERYTHING to suggest that Clark would be as likely or more likely to take us up than Grayson, as he got better results from the same squad. The facts of history shows us that. |
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Feb 2, 2023 13:47:12 GMT 1
I would say only Wed and Derby are bigger than us the others certainly aren't. Charlton and Barnsley and Plymouth are not bigger than us but certainly there have been some big clubs on league one, Villa, Wolves and even Man City have all been there and until the mid seventies we had never been out of the top two divisions. Are Derby bigger ? They had a couple of seasons at the top in the early to mid 70's but bugger all else. If you asked 100 neutral football fans I'm sure it would be a unanimous yes. |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,327
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Post by wigster on Feb 2, 2023 14:01:47 GMT 1
I still maintain with the right service Rhodes can score plenty for us. I think he gets himself in the right areas and has shown he can still find the back of the net. Right service?? Had three chances on Saturday and never troubled the keeper. He had 3 chances yes - if he was an olympic gymnast who could contort his body backwards into goodness knows what positions most humans couldn't attain. One chance in particular was probably a yard behind him and he somehow managed to direct his header on goal, where the goalie had to make a save. "Had three chances" ?? You really don't like him do you - looking at your previous posts you've been critical of him since, literally, the day he signed ! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 2, 2023 16:18:46 GMT 1
Its not akin to that at all. Stewart was CLEARLY a better goalscorer than Clyde Wijnhard.. not one person would think otherwise... there was NOTHING to suggest Clark was more likely to take us up than Grayson. In fact the opposite, with his previous failures and Graysons previous successes. Im bewildered as to how anyone can say it wasnt the right decision to make that managerial change... it worked.. we went up. The alternative was we 'might' have gone up, but probably not. After the two previous failures Hoyle had stuck with Clark for another attempt when he probably considered a change at that point. And then in the middle of that third attempt Clark was getting giddy in radio interviews about Leicester being interested in him. I think that soured the relationship, but ultimately what got clark the sack was that Hoyle didnt think he would take us up and that someone calmer and more proven would.. and history shows he called it right IMO. Given Stewart and Wijnhard's goal scoring stats across their careers are VERY similar (with Clyde actually scoring MORE goals per game) - then your opening statement and presumption is flawed. They were different players who brought different things to their games. Not sure why you're bewildered on Clark v Grayson. It was a decision that worked out - but what we don't and won't ever know is if it would have been a BETTER / MORE RIGHT to keep Clark in situ. It doesn't mean that the decision was proven to be a 'right call'. What you're suggesting is a bit like saying that if we avoid relegation by a point on the final day, then appointing Fotheringham was the right choice, he delivered what was asked. But it WOULDNT BE. The right choice would be to bring in someone better, and a more right choice would have been to bring that better person in, instead of Danny Schofield. (notwithstanding Fotheringham may well ( he won't!) go on to lead us to the Championship title next season and be lauded as a hero - but as things stand without benefit of a time machine, thats the position). It was a big risk....there was EVERYTHING to suggest that Clark would be as likely or more likely to take us up than Grayson, as he got better results from the same squad. The facts of history shows us that. Of course it was a big risk. but one that proved to be the right decision surely... it worked ..we went up. Clark may have taken us up automatically or through the play offs.. like you say it 'might' have been better if wed stuck with him. But we could also have dropped out of the play off places by the end of the season... and I know which one seemed more likely at the time! The facts of history show Clark had failed twice in the play offs already , embarrassingly so in the previous season's final, and at the time had the side looking like it could drop out of the top 6 altogether after just 4 wins in 12 games. Grayson had already achieved promotion with both Blackpool and Leeds.. thus proving he knew how to get teams over the line...which he again proved with us. And history also shows Clark had done nothing prior to that time or and has certainly done nothing since that time as a manager to suggest he had what it took to get that side up. |
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rickrast
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by rickrast on Feb 2, 2023 16:24:46 GMT 1
Lee Clark got the best out of Rhodes. Bring him back!
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Post by softboy on Feb 2, 2023 16:38:31 GMT 1
A 25% owner who wants out. A 75% owner whose companies went bust. A Head Coach who is useless. Another coach in Miller that seems almost as clueless. Loan signings that are either average, injured or over the hill. And to cap it all doomed to relegation - 3 points from safety with 1/2 games in hand. Probably worst season ever. Someone wanting to lose a crucial home game in the hope that MF will get sacked. Still be there tomorrow just in case we might get a decent result and give ourselves a outside chance of staying up
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Post by townarentbest on Feb 2, 2023 16:51:08 GMT 1
Given Stewart and Wijnhard's goal scoring stats across their careers are VERY similar (with Clyde actually scoring MORE goals per game) - then your opening statement and presumption is flawed. They were different players who brought different things to their games. Not sure why you're bewildered on Clark v Grayson. It was a decision that worked out - but what we don't and won't ever know is if it would have been a BETTER / MORE RIGHT to keep Clark in situ. It doesn't mean that the decision was proven to be a 'right call'. What you're suggesting is a bit like saying that if we avoid relegation by a point on the final day, then appointing Fotheringham was the right choice, he delivered what was asked. But it WOULDNT BE. The right choice would be to bring in someone better, and a more right choice would have been to bring that better person in, instead of Danny Schofield. (notwithstanding Fotheringham may well ( he won't!) go on to lead us to the Championship title next season and be lauded as a hero - but as things stand without benefit of a time machine, thats the position). It was a big risk....there was EVERYTHING to suggest that Clark would be as likely or more likely to take us up than Grayson, as he got better results from the same squad. The facts of history shows us that. Of course it was a big risk. but one that proved to be the right decision surely... it worked ..we went up. Clark may have taken us up automatically or through the play offs.. like you say it 'might' have been better if wed stuck with him. But we could also have dropped out of the play off places by the end of the season... and I know which one seemed more likely at the time! The facts of history show Clark had failed twice in the play offs already , embarrassingly so in the previous season's final, and at the time had the side looking like it could drop out of the top 6 altogether after just 4 wins in 12 games. Grayson had already achieved promotion with both Blackpool and Leeds.. thus proving he knew how to get teams over the line...which he again proved with us. And history also shows Clark had done nothing prior to that time or and has certainly done nothing since that time as a manager to suggest he had what it took to get that side up. It was A decision that had a happy outcome, it wasn't necessarily THE right decision. Can you acknowledge that? What is pretty much without question is the right decision was made 12 months later! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 2, 2023 17:01:14 GMT 1
The happy outcome is what made it THE right decision IMO.
Yeah right decision a year later too.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 2, 2023 17:41:26 GMT 1
A 25% owner who wants out. A 75% owner whose companies went bust. A Head Coach who is useless. Another coach in Miller that seems almost as clueless. Loan signings that are either average, injured or over the hill. And to cap it all doomed to relegation - 3 points from safety with 1/2 games in hand. Probably worst season ever. Someone wanting to lose a crucial home game in the hope that MF will get sacked. Still be there tomorrow just in case we might get a decent result and give ourselves a outside chance of staying up You're keen, if you're going Friday. |
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Post by shawsie on Feb 2, 2023 17:45:51 GMT 1
A 25% owner who wants out. A 75% owner whose companies went bust. A Head Coach who is useless. Another coach in Miller that seems almost as clueless. Loan signings that are either average, injured or over the hill. And to cap it all doomed to relegation - 3 points from safety with 1/2 games in hand. Probably worst season ever. Someone wanting to lose a crucial home game in the hope that MF will get sacked. Still be there tomorrow just in case we might get a decent result and give ourselves a outside chance of staying up You're keen, if you're going Friday. Keen or deliberate avoidance of his eyes bleeding from 3pm sat?! |
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Post by softboy on Feb 2, 2023 18:06:52 GMT 1
I'm so keen I forgot it was Thursday and not Friday. really upset i'm going to have to wait a extra day to see the mighty terriers!
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