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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 12, 2023 9:24:46 GMT 1
I wonder if Sac Republic will be signing some of our targets then getting 'loaned' to us? Watford and Udinese have been doing this for years to get around FFP.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jul 12, 2023 9:27:21 GMT 1
I wonder if Sac Republic will be signing some of our targets then getting 'loaned' to us? Watford and Udinese have been doing this for years to get around FFP. It’s harder to do as the two teams seasons aren’t in sync.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Jul 12, 2023 10:05:18 GMT 1
Clean slate but from day 1 surely we started accruing debt to Nagle? So neither of the above are relevant to the situation we are in FFP wise. We could be a 100 million in debt. The only figure the EFL would care about is what we paid back annually on that. In simple terms we are allowed to lose 39 million over 3 years which is a continuous rolling 3 years. So take these published accounts as year one. 1) 21/22 season. This is the year we got to the playoff final. And we had 17 million in parachute payments. We still made a loss of 4 million. 2) 22/23 season. These figures won’t be out til next year but this is the season just gone. You can estimate that if the wages were similar and our income was similar you’d have another 4 million loss but then we also had no parachute payments of 17 million so could in effect have lost 21 million last year. 3) that takes us to this season. If the above ball park figures are roughly accurate that means over 2 years we have lost 24-25 million. Which of course means this year we could only lose 15 million max before getting points deductions etc and that will be tough judging by what we actually make or bring in even without signings. It’s now obvious why we have no money to spend but the bigger issue is that Nagle said under financial constraints this year but as it’s a 3 year rolling process I think we will be in the same boat next year unless our revenue suddenly increases. I think we are going to have to bite the bullet for next year and increase prices for season tickets and merchandise. I also expect our good old pie and a pint going up by a quid or so which lets face it is the real scandal. But is that why new owners put a chunk of money into the club as 'directors loans' or such... So that the balance books look positive?
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ram
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Post by ram on Jul 12, 2023 10:08:43 GMT 1
I'm sure I read an article recently which Kev stated the club was entirely debt free, No debt to DH no debt to banks anything it was a clean slate for the club. I was about to say the same,then I saw this post,hence the like.
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 12, 2023 10:19:01 GMT 1
I'm sure I read an article recently which Kev stated the club was entirely debt free, No debt to DH no debt to banks anything it was a clean slate for the club. I was about to say the same,then I saw this post,hence the like. Kev said it in his press conference . That the club is debt free, but it doesn't mean that we are still not under ffp regs due to this.
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ram
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Post by ram on Jul 12, 2023 10:21:05 GMT 1
Who is arguing about FFP? I,m not!
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 12, 2023 10:24:32 GMT 1
Who is arguing about FFP? I,m not! no no mate, what am saying is Kev said we are debt free. which you have to believe. The ffp rules may be effecting us due to the build up , of the loans etc to keep us going or things that nature.
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Post by hartyhtfc on Jul 12, 2023 10:25:02 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus
Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead...
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Post by pilks123 on Jul 12, 2023 10:29:59 GMT 1
Clean slate but from day 1 surely we started accruing debt to Nagle? So neither of the above are relevant to the situation we are in FFP wise. We could be a 100 million in debt. The only figure the EFL would care about is what we paid back annually on that. In simple terms we are allowed to lose 39 million over 3 years which is a continuous rolling 3 years. So take these published accounts as year one. 1) 21/22 season. This is the year we got to the playoff final. And we had 17 million in parachute payments. We still made a loss of 4 million. 2) 22/23 season. These figures won’t be out til next year but this is the season just gone. You can estimate that if the wages were similar and our income was similar you’d have another 4 million loss but then we also had no parachute payments of 17 million so could in effect have lost 21 million last year. 3) that takes us to this season. If the above ball park figures are roughly accurate that means over 2 years we have lost 24-25 million. Which of course means this year we could only lose 15 million max before getting points deductions etc and that will be tough judging by what we actually make or bring in even without signings. It’s now obvious why we have no money to spend but the bigger issue is that Nagle said under financial constraints this year but as it’s a 3 year rolling process I think we will be in the same boat next year unless our revenue suddenly increases. I think we are going to have to bite the bullet for next year and increase prices for season tickets and merchandise. I also expect our good old pie and a pint going up by a quid or so which lets face it is the real scandal. Not sure the situation is quite as bleak as you put it there with a few key additions for the season just gone worth noting. One of the footnotes in the 21/22 accs was that the club was in profit on player sales at the start of 22/23. (Toffs and Lewis). Don’t have the exact figure to hand but let’s assume 6 mil net, of which there’s another note saying first 3 of that was assigned to pay off 3m of bank loans. Hence little to no reinvestment of the fees last season. (rudoni maybe biggest fee, not sure). There is also the EFL solidarity payment which every club who doesn’t get parachute payments receives off the league, it’s set at a percentage of what a 3rd year parachute payment would be. (~20/30%), worth maybe somewhere in the region of 5m. Town will likely make a considerable loss in 22/23 there’s no argument there, but hoping these will comfort the considerable blow of losing parachute money just a little bit.
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Post by runner76 on Jul 12, 2023 10:32:45 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... 1.5 million not a bad return, I guess?
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Post by bells ringing :) on Jul 12, 2023 10:35:47 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... 1.5 million not a bad return, I guess? The thing i will take from this is, the quicker this gets resolved the better for all parties.
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Post by hartyhtfc on Jul 12, 2023 10:36:55 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... 1.5 million not a bad return, I guess? I think its fine, he is clearly a talented player, but also has one year left on his contract and has made clear he wants to leave. Hopefully we have a nice sell-on clause at least. Better to get a deal done early too, so we can get on with re-investing as soon as possible.
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Post by townrwe on Jul 12, 2023 10:39:15 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... Hes obviously a talented boy, but i question if he will ever have the quickness of mind to become a top player, It always seemed like he saw the game in english and then translated it to french before he made a decision.
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Post by twyford on Jul 12, 2023 10:45:12 GMT 1
Clean slate but from day 1 surely we started accruing debt to Nagle? So neither of the above are relevant to the situation we are in FFP wise. We could be a 100 million in debt. The only figure the EFL would care about is what we paid back annually on that. In simple terms we are allowed to lose 39 million over 3 years which is a continuous rolling 3 years. So take these published accounts as year one. 1) 21/22 season. This is the year we got to the playoff final. And we had 17 million in parachute payments. We still made a loss of 4 million. 2) 22/23 season. These figures won’t be out til next year but this is the season just gone. You can estimate that if the wages were similar and our income was similar you’d have another 4 million loss but then we also had no parachute payments of 17 million so could in effect have lost 21 million last year. 3) that takes us to this season. If the above ball park figures are roughly accurate that means over 2 years we have lost 24-25 million. Which of course means this year we could only lose 15 million max before getting points deductions etc and that will be tough judging by what we actually make or bring in even without signings. It’s now obvious why we have no money to spend but the bigger issue is that Nagle said under financial constraints this year but as it’s a 3 year rolling process I think we will be in the same boat next year unless our revenue suddenly increases. I think we are going to have to bite the bullet for next year and increase prices for season tickets and merchandise. I also expect our good old pie and a pint going up by a quid or so which lets face it is the real scandal. The 22/23 loss you estimate will have been offset by profit on the sale of O'Brien and Tofolo. It is likely though to still be substantial and will need to be included in calculations for subsequent seasons. The worry to me is that for the current season there is unlikely to be any significant transfer profits (unless someone comes in big for Nichols or Thomas?) so another big loss to sit alongside the 22/23 one and which would severely restrict options for the 24/25 season. I think that explains Nagle's focus on increasing revenue and I anticipate a big hike in season ticket prices for next season. This will follow the expiry of the previous regime's price pledges around renewals during Covid. It does though rely upon Warnock maintaining Championship status again as a big increase if relegated would be extremely hard to justify.
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Post by twyford on Jul 12, 2023 10:48:51 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... I wonder if we'll see him playing at Watford? Is Championship more appropriate for him at present than Serie A?
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Post by Next Manager coming soon on Jul 12, 2023 10:50:04 GMT 1
So neither of the above are relevant to the situation we are in FFP wise. We could be a 100 million in debt. The only figure the EFL would care about is what we paid back annually on that. In simple terms we are allowed to lose 39 million over 3 years which is a continuous rolling 3 years. So take these published accounts as year one. 1) 21/22 season. This is the year we got to the playoff final. And we had 17 million in parachute payments. We still made a loss of 4 million. 2) 22/23 season. These figures won’t be out til next year but this is the season just gone. You can estimate that if the wages were similar and our income was similar you’d have another 4 million loss but then we also had no parachute payments of 17 million so could in effect have lost 21 million last year. 3) that takes us to this season. If the above ball park figures are roughly accurate that means over 2 years we have lost 24-25 million. Which of course means this year we could only lose 15 million max before getting points deductions etc and that will be tough judging by what we actually make or bring in even without signings. It’s now obvious why we have no money to spend but the bigger issue is that Nagle said under financial constraints this year but as it’s a 3 year rolling process I think we will be in the same boat next year unless our revenue suddenly increases. I think we are going to have to bite the bullet for next year and increase prices for season tickets and merchandise. I also expect our good old pie and a pint going up by a quid or so which lets face it is the real scandal. Not sure the situation is quite as bleak as you put it there with a few key additions for the season just gone worth noting. One of the footnotes in the 21/22 accs was that the club was in profit on player sales at the start of 22/23. (Toffs and Lewis). Don’t have the exact figure to hand but let’s assume 6 mil net, of which there’s another note saying first 3 of that was assigned to pay off 3m of bank loans. Hence little to no reinvestment of the fees last season. (rudoni maybe biggest fee, not sure). There is also the EFL solidarity payment which every club who doesn’t get parachute payments receives off the league, it’s set at a percentage of what a 3rd year parachute payment would be. (~20/30%), worth maybe somewhere in the region of 5m. Town will likely make a considerable loss in 22/23 there’s no argument there, but hoping these will comfort the considerable blow of losing parachute money just a little bit. Yeah quite possibly mate. I am By no means a financial expert. Ask my bank 😂. As I said the figures are estimates just to try explain why being debt free is not relevant to FFP etc and try simplify it.
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jul 12, 2023 10:52:06 GMT 1
1.5m euros is a bit of a disappointing fee truth be told, hope there are a load of add ons to that as well. Will be galling to see him rock up at Watford next year as well.
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Post by dezzly on Jul 12, 2023 10:58:31 GMT 1
1.5m euros is a bit of a disappointing fee truth be told, hope there are a load of add ons to that as well. Will be galling to see him rock up at Watford next year as well. If we had gotten him to sign a new deal last year could at least double that amount surely.fact is he’s in last year of his contract with us taking the option on him so any half decent fee is a bonus I guess
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 12, 2023 11:00:26 GMT 1
Camara off to Udinese apparently, EUR 1.5m fee, with a EUR 2m bonus Wonder what the fee would have been if we'd sold to Watford instead... 1.5 million not a bad return, I guess? Hopefully a decent sell-on clause has been agreed aswell. If we can get a couple of million in for Camara and Holmes it will help Warnock bring in some decent loans and free agents. Any premier league loans will probably happen late in the window but plenty of good quality free agents out there.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jul 12, 2023 11:03:21 GMT 1
Duane has gone. Confirmed.
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Post by terriers2000 on Jul 12, 2023 11:05:24 GMT 1
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 12, 2023 11:06:01 GMT 1
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Post by htafcokay on Jul 12, 2023 11:08:07 GMT 1
I don't think this is a huge loss, to be honest. He's not very consistent and he's been suffering from injuries recently as well, hopefully we can replace him with someone a bit more consistent and who offers more.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 12, 2023 11:08:34 GMT 1
Sonny Kittel is a free agent. Would be a brilliant replacement for Duane. Also ex Preston players Daniel Johnson and Josh Onomah are listed as free agents.
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Post by supercol23 on Jul 12, 2023 11:11:30 GMT 1
Holmes gone, Camara set to go, Rhodes to be next? Need to recruit a back up for rudoni and a number 9.
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goodbet
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Post by goodbet on Jul 12, 2023 11:14:07 GMT 1
Any fee?
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Post by townrwe on Jul 12, 2023 11:14:22 GMT 1
Often the only one to put a shift in with Schofield and Fotheringham. Doesnt seem like the kind of player that Warnock wants, Hes a town fan, so always sad to see someone like him move on, Good luck Duane
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Post by runner76 on Jul 12, 2023 11:14:38 GMT 1
Neil was definitely making it sound like we needed at least one if not more attacking options so I think freeing up these slots will make that happen......happy with some loans instead of permanent to be fair
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Post by ritchie on Jul 12, 2023 11:16:26 GMT 1
I don't think this is a huge loss, to be honest. He's not very consistent and he's been suffering from injuries recently as well, hopefully we can replace him with someone a bit more consistent and who offers more. It's a loss. Squad is getting weaker Though im sure it will look different by the end of the window
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jul 12, 2023 11:17:38 GMT 1
Nixon said yesterday a fee had been agreed and Warnock said him leaving will give us more flexibility in the market, so I presume so?
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