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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 12, 2023 12:23:20 GMT 1
The need to pay off players we need to offload is a downside of acquiring players on a free. Their agents will push for higher wages over as longer period since there is no fee to pay. Look at Boyle - didn't we sign him on a 3 year deal? Realistically, is he ever going to be first choice? And if we saw a CB who we wanted to be a starter, pushing him down the pecking order, who is going to pay a fee for him and meet his wage demands?
One of the many issues with Brondby-ball...
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jul 12, 2023 12:25:39 GMT 1
One of the many issues with Brondby-ball... I mean yeah, blame Bromby, but what does a Danish football club have to do with us? 😉
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 12, 2023 12:27:21 GMT 1
One of the many issues with Brondby-ball... I mean yeah, blame Bromby, but what does a Danish football club have to do with us? 😉 oops
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Post by softboy on Jul 12, 2023 12:28:39 GMT 1
So we are getting rid of players who want to move on (Camara) and a player on high wages that the manager is clearly happy to let move on (Holmes). I really don’t see the issue at all.
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by ambryboy on Jul 12, 2023 12:34:27 GMT 1
Can't be certain how accurrate this is but £2million (including add-ons) for Camara seems cheap unless there's a fecking big sell on clause. link
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 12, 2023 12:36:46 GMT 1
Can't be certain how accurrate this is but £2million (including add-ons) for Camara seems cheap unless there's a fecking big sell on clause. linknot really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave.
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Post by cowshed1992 on Jul 12, 2023 12:37:26 GMT 1
bull shine wait till the window closes then comment utt For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. The Championship doesn’t give a shiny shit if we have a new American owner or whether he likes Marston’s chicken or not. It’s a tough, unforgiving league. Preston have also just signed a number 10 from the Danish Superliga for a ‘significant fee’. A club who must have a very similar turnover to ours without ever having the benefit of parachute payments. Whilst we have another season of hoping one of the kids comes through. Other clubs at least try to balance financial constraints whilst striving to be competitive.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 12, 2023 12:41:20 GMT 1
For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. The Championship doesn’t give a shiny shit if we have a new American owner or whether he likes Marston’s chicken or not. It’s a tough, unforgiving league. Preston have also just signed a number 10 from the Danish Superliga for a ‘significant fee’. A club who must have a very similar turnover to ours without ever having the benefit of parachute payments. Whilst we have another season of hoping one of the kids comes through. Other clubs at least try to balance financial constraints whilst striving to be competitive. Maybe listen/ read to Chicken's analysis of the recent accounts release before continuing to waffle on about how we should sign everyone and sell no one . It's not going to happen so you're wasting your breath
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Jimuano
Darren Bullock Terrier
[M0:17]
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Post by Jimuano on Jul 12, 2023 12:43:43 GMT 1
Read the Examiner’s article on the accounts. Shows we have £2.9m of bank loads outstanding. And any fees for players will go to servicing that debt. We won’t have any players valued at that, that we want to sell, so can’t see us spending much if anything really. I suppose it’s going to be a case of trying to do it cheaply this year until the FFP cycle starts again. Then Kev will be able to show his backing as won’t have the same restrictions That 2.9m was at the end of 21/22 which doesn't include the sales of Toff, O'brien or Russell so it SHOULD have been cleared by now. It's stuck out in his interviews/media clips that big Kev wants to win a cup.
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Post by cowshed1992 on Jul 12, 2023 12:46:35 GMT 1
The Championship doesn’t give a shiny shit if we have a new American owner or whether he likes Marston’s chicken or not. It’s a tough, unforgiving league. Preston have also just signed a number 10 from the Danish Superliga for a ‘significant fee’. A club who must have a very similar turnover to ours without ever having the benefit of parachute payments. Whilst we have another season of hoping one of the kids comes through. Other clubs at least try to balance financial constraints whilst striving to be competitive. Maybe listen/ read to Chicken's analysis of the recent accounts release before continuing to waffle on about how we should sign everyone and sell no one . It's not going to happen so you're wasting your breath I didn’t say ‘sign everyone’. We’ll always operate to a budget. I just feel a large section of our fan base have been seduced by the glamour of having foreign owners. We were perilously close to the bottom 3 last year. We’re now asking a 75 year old to do that over a full season with the likes of Josh Ruffels and Danny Ward who shouldn’t be anywhere near a starting Championship 11
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 12, 2023 12:51:28 GMT 1
Maybe listen/ read to Chicken's analysis of the recent accounts release before continuing to waffle on about how we should sign everyone and sell no one . It's not going to happen so you're wasting your breath I didn’t say ‘sign everyone’. We’ll always operate to a budget. I just feel a large section of our fan base have been seduced by the glamour of having foreign owners. We were perilously close to the bottom 3 last year. We’re now asking a 75 year old to do that over a full season with the likes of Josh Ruffels and Danny Ward who shouldn’t be anywhere near a starting Championship 11 As I've said . Check out the analysis . If the owner was a multi billionaire and wanted to bankroll it he can't. I couldn't see warnock coming back without assurances of large bankrolling of the team. But I was wrong
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Jul 12, 2023 12:56:36 GMT 1
Can't be certain how accurrate this is but £2million (including add-ons) for Camara seems cheap unless there's a fecking big sell on clause. linknot really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave. OK point taken but I'd still expect that there is a heck of sell-on clause.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 12, 2023 12:57:14 GMT 1
not really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave. OK point taken but I'd still expect that there is a heck of sell-on clause. I'd hope so too
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Post by dezzly on Jul 12, 2023 12:58:24 GMT 1
not really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave. OK point taken but I'd still expect that there is a heck of sell-on clause. Yeh all of the above applies to the immediate fee I guess.but also yeh you would imagine if we have anything about us would stick a sell on clause in there.
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ambryboy
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Posts: 4,816
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Post by ambryboy on Jul 12, 2023 13:09:54 GMT 1
bull shine wait till the window closes then comment utt For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. Plenty complained about Richard Logan especially after his first game when he looked absolutely lost and out of his depth, full credit to Warnock though as he turned Logan into a very solid dependable player and a bargain too!
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 12, 2023 13:11:25 GMT 1
bull shine wait till the window closes then comment utt For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. If DATM had existed at the time then there would have been a total meltdown!! Even more so a few months later when we were looking doomed to go down! Lynch mobs would have formed to hunt Warnock down!
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by prepare on Jul 12, 2023 13:13:37 GMT 1
bull shine wait till the window closes then comment utt For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. im glad we agree!! And yes you are right it’s about balancing the wage bill and I have no concerns aboutvthe way we are going about it I’m sure they will be replaced utt
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Jul 12, 2023 13:16:11 GMT 1
For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. If DATM had existed at the time then there would have been a total meltdown!! Even more so a few months later when we were looking doomed to go down! Lynch mobs would have formed to hunt Warnock down! Absolutely. I was at the Barnet game at home when we got beat 1-2 (IIRC) and the crowd was restless then. If we had all known what he was going to do for us over the coming 18 months and again many moon’s later!
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Post by dewsburyborn on Jul 12, 2023 13:41:43 GMT 1
1.5m euros is a bit of a disappointing fee truth be told, hope there are a load of add ons to that as well. Will be galling to see him rock up at Watford next year as well. Pity we couldn't have wangled Hungbo into the deal
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jul 12, 2023 13:55:29 GMT 1
Can't be certain how accurrate this is but £2million (including add-ons) for Camara seems cheap unless there's a fecking big sell on clause. linknot really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave. I'm going to be Devil's Advocate here and say that I really don't think that he's going cheaply. £1m+ is decent for a player who has done the square root of nothing at Town. Yes, he's been with us a long time, and he had worked his way up, but he never impressed me that much. He was slow in possession and did all of his best work in our own half, playing the ball backwards or sideways to the centre-backs. He was often caught in possession and rarely played forward passes. There were games where he made Russell look like a world-beater! Warnock obviously didn't rate him and told him to buck his ideas up, hence his decision to up sticks. I accept that he has potential, but so has every player. How he's made the France U20s I have no idea, but let's not forget that hundreds, if not thousands, of players make age-levels and then vanish, never to be seen again. Either way, we'll soon find out. And yes, I'd imagine that we'll have a never-ending sell-on clause to help dig us out of the next inescapable financial collapse.
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Yesss
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Post by Yesss on Jul 12, 2023 14:05:15 GMT 1
Nixon said yesterday a fee had been agreed and Warnock said him leaving will give us more flexibility in the market, so I presume so? Free. Town paying some of his wage to leave. What a joke
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jul 12, 2023 14:07:40 GMT 1
not really - 1 year left on his contract, won't be on a big wage, not that experienced, and he wants to leave. I'm going to be Devil's Advocate here and say that I really don't think that he's going cheaply. £1m+ is decent for a player who has done the square root of nothing at Town. Yes, he's been with us a long time, and he had worked his way up, but he never impressed me that much. He was slow in possession and did all of his best work in our own half, playing the ball backwards or sideways to the centre-backs. He was often caught in possession and rarely played forward passes. There were games where he made Russell look like a world-beater! Warnock obviously didn't rate him and told him to buck his ideas up, hence his decision to up sticks. I accept that he has potential, but so has every player. How he's made the France U20s I have no idea, but let's not forget that hundreds, if not thousands, of players make age-levels and then vanish, never to be seen again. Either way, we'll soon find out. And yes, I'd imagine that we'll have a never-ending sell-on clause to help dig us out of the next inescapable financial collapse. From my limited viewings last season of Camara I’d tend to agree with you, and if the (alleged) stories about “attitude” are correct then Town do right to cash in now on him. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Camara gradually “disappear” from view, like countless others before him. The youngster I’m most excited about is Pat Jones (I prefer to trust what I see with my own eyes).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2023 14:17:31 GMT 1
Good business on Camara if we can get a decent sell on clause and enough to fund an EPL loan signing that would better our starting 11.
Didn't impress me at all last season. Looked like a boy in a mans game unlike Headley that stepped up and looked at his level.
I really can't see where else the budget can be trimmed if we're binning off two of the top two earners in Holmes and Rhodes; this is the 3rd round of trimming down in 3 years now - didn't we already have the 5th lowest budget? Can't see sheff weds/Ipswich having a smaller budget.
Not expecting money to be thrown about; I liked Nagels comment on money spent not reflecting league position other than at the top 2 - but would be nice to see a bit of money spent on promising lower league players and exciting loans.
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by prepare on Jul 12, 2023 14:18:05 GMT 1
For once, I agree with you! Clear the lads Warnock doesn’t want, gets wages off the bill and maybe some money in to get lads he wants. No-one complained about us selling Phil Starbuck, Chris Marsden, and Iwan Roberts to fund Paul Reid, Bully, Jeppo, Scully, Tommy Cowan etc did they? That worked out well 🔵⚪️✊🏼 N.B to all DATM pedants, yes I know we didn’t sell the former directly in line with buying the latter but the principle of generating funds stands. The Championship doesn’t give a shiny shit if we have a new American owner or whether he likes Marston’s chicken or not. It’s a tough, unforgiving league. Preston have also just signed a number 10 from the Danish Superliga for a ‘significant fee’. A club who must have a very similar turnover to ours without ever having the benefit of parachute payments. Whilst we have another season of hoping one of the kids comes through. Other clubs at least try to balance financial constraints whilst striving to be competitive. your getting ahead of yourself till we see who we are don’t bring in your seccond guessing the window doesn’t close for weeks yet. Calm down it’s early days
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Post by bluesandtwos on Jul 12, 2023 14:22:17 GMT 1
Good business on Camara if we can get a decent sell on clause and enough to fund an EPL loan signing that would better our starting 11. Didn't impress me at all last season. Looked like a boy in a mans game unlike Headley that stepped up and looked at his level. I really can't see where else the budget can be trimmed if we're binning off two of the top two earners in Holmes and Rhodes; this is the 3rd round of trimming down in 3 years now - didn't we already have the 5th lowest budget? Can't see sheff weds/Ipswich having a smaller budget. Not expecting money to be thrown about; I liked Nagels comment on money spent not reflecting league position other than at the top 2 - but would be nice to see a bit of money spent on promising lower league players and exciting loans. Probably the most talened player at the club. What messed it up was all the stupidity with 'head coaches', in quotes because they should never have been, last season. If we had had a good coach in from pre season he would have been an absolute star. Pleased about the money but gutted to have found a young player that good and we have not been able to really see him shine.
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Post by royrace on Jul 12, 2023 14:39:29 GMT 1
The Championship doesn’t give a shiny shit if we have a new American owner or whether he likes Marston’s chicken or not. It’s a tough, unforgiving league. Preston have also just signed a number 10 from the Danish Superliga for a ‘significant fee’. A club who must have a very similar turnover to ours without ever having the benefit of parachute payments. Whilst we have another season of hoping one of the kids comes through. Other clubs at least try to balance financial constraints whilst striving to be competitive. Maybe listen/ read to Chicken's analysis of the recent accounts release before continuing to waffle on about how we should sign everyone and sell no one . It's not going to happen so you're wasting your breath He made a valid comparison and questioned how/why clubs like Preston can pay fees for players and avoid selling their better ones when their turnover is presumably worse than Town's. Maybe try to answer the question or say nothing at all if you can't? "Chickens analysis" doesn't address the issue he has highlighted (how other clubs manage it) and just comes across as you being rude and dismissive, better to keep quiet imo or make a valid comment. A comparison with Town vs Preston would be very interesting I'm sure if anyone has the info. Thing is all we see is numbers with no detail on how those details are made up, in particular we don't really know what income and expense can be attributed to specific player purchases/sales. For all I know we might still be paying for the likes of Diakhaby and receiving money for Grant. I've no idea but it is puzzling how clubs like Preston can afford players when we can't. Is it a hangover from the PL years, do Preston have a much smaller squad, better commercial revenue etc etc? I've no idea but it would be interesting to know, I think that's what the OP was questioning and its a good question IMO.
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Post by tepidterrier on Jul 12, 2023 14:41:39 GMT 1
I don't think it's 'bedwetting' to be worried about our prospects for the window. We're not stupid, and recognise when there's no money to spend, we don't need to wait til the window shuts to confirm that. Can usually tell a good summer window from a bad one by this time of year.
With Holmes gone, and Camara and High looking to be going, that will leave us ridiculously short in midfield. But Warnock is happy with it
No money again for the 5th season in a row
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 12, 2023 15:02:18 GMT 1
Maybe listen/ read to Chicken's analysis of the recent accounts release before continuing to waffle on about how we should sign everyone and sell no one . It's not going to happen so you're wasting your breath He made a valid comparison and questioned how/why clubs like Preston can pay fees for players and avoid selling their better ones when their turnover is presumably worse than Town's. Maybe try to answer the question or say nothing at all if you can't? "Chickens analysis" doesn't address the issue he has highlighted (how other clubs manage it) and just comes across as you being rude and dismissive, better to keep quiet imo or make a valid comment. A comparison with Town vs Preston would be very interesting I'm sure if anyone has the info. Thing is all we see is numbers with no detail on how those details are made up, in particular we don't really know what income and expense can be attributed to specific player purchases/sales. For all I know we might still be paying for the likes of Diakhaby and receiving money for Grant. I've no idea but it is puzzling how clubs like Preston can afford players when we can't. Is it a hangover from the PL years, do Preston have a much smaller squad, better commercial revenue etc etc? I've no idea but it would be interesting to know, I think that's what the OP was questioning and its a good question IMO. Zzzz all the answers are where I pointed to . Not rude or dismissive at all . Maybe you should have a look too ?
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Post by hartyhtfc on Jul 12, 2023 15:03:25 GMT 1
I don't think it's 'bedwetting' to be worried about our prospects for the window. We're not stupid, and recognise when there's no money to spend, we don't need to wait til the window shuts to confirm that. Can usually tell a good summer window from a bad one by this time of year. With Holmes gone, and Camara and High looking to be going, that will leave us ridiculously short in midfield. But Warnock is happy with it No money again for the 5th season in a row We have to ship people out before we have a budget to bring people in though. You'd think we're looking at some free agents who are more proven, who we'd fund by using the wages released by getting rid of a fair few fringe players.
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Post by Lovechops on Jul 12, 2023 15:03:25 GMT 1
What fee did we receive for Holmes? Sorry if I've missed it. just popped up on my futmob app Holmes fee was £1.7m ?
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