Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2024 13:29:25 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? No, because by the time it happened he would be forty and probably on crutches given our record of bringing previous players back. 😉 |
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 12, 2024 13:35:06 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League. |
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Feb 12, 2024 13:46:34 GMT 1
Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League. Interestingly though, he excelled under Warnock's wing and perhaps to a lesser extent with Jepson and old head in the dressing room, whereas Horton wasn't able to 'manage' Bullock as effectively. Perhaps if Warnock and Jepson had stayed in place longer this season they could have got Harratt more focussed on carving a football career than the less than inspirational Darren Bore did. |
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Feb 12, 2024 13:48:53 GMT 1
Very true. Maybe we need to see who the new manager is also to see if they have form for dealing with issues off the field.
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Post by Terriersmad on Feb 12, 2024 14:35:30 GMT 1
While I'm not hanging Harratt out to dry, he's in the last-chance saloon (if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor). What I will say in his favour is that he's not getting convicted of serious criminal offences. In the grand scheme, these are misdemeanours that a misled kid might commit. As I understand it, and I stand to be corrected, his conviction for hare coursing last year was alongside family members. Better role models are clearly required, although he is at an age where he should be making better choices for himself.
The betting issue is, as others have said, a football-wide issue. He's far from the first, and he certainly won't be the last. He's tried it on, thinking he can get away with it, and he hasn't. A learning curve in itself. The powers that be have issued a ban that rules him out for the season. He has to take it on the chin - as do we as a club - and learn from it for next season. That the powers that be are themselves in bed with the betting companies, and that football itself is powered by the money of gambling, is both a relevant and separate issue. How can a game that relies on that money come down on a player who gambles, and who will during his career wear shirts emblazoned with gambling sponsors? But how can a game have integrity when its players place money on its own side to lose? They are both separate issues, but which are intertwined. The simple answer, if football wants to clean up its act, is to outlaw gambling sponsorship and partnerships. Which won't happen as too much money is at stake.
Why has Harratt got an immediate ban while Toffolo hasn't? Time will have a big thing to do with it. Toffolo has shown that he's a changed character over a number of years and there's no point in banning such a player, while Harratt was gambling up to discovery. No problem with the apparent discrepancy here - especially as Harratt's suspension also coincides with an injury. It's a chance for him to get fit, take stock, and come back in pre-season hungry and focussed on football rather than anything outside.
Harratt has potential, there's no doubt of that. He reminds me of Jamie Vardy in his character, and if he cuts out the off-the-field stupidity he could be a valuable asset. However, there's only so much the club can take, and were I in charge I'd be sitting him down and telling him that anything else would result in his contract being torn up for gross misconduct. He has a chance, he might need a mentor, he definitely needs to knuckle down.
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Post by detox on Feb 12, 2024 14:41:56 GMT 1
Do Town still have to pay Harratt while he's banned from football ?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Feb 12, 2024 15:16:28 GMT 1
My original position was give the lad a final chance etc. What kid of message does it send if we just abandon him However if he's bet on his own team to lose. I just don't think that's acceptable. The club presumably have justification to rip up his contract and sack him. If I as KN I'd do that in this case I'm afraid Is your opinion exactly the same for Harry Toffolo? He also bet against his own team to loose on a number of occasions when he was gambling at the same age as Kian Would you ever want Toff back at Town? That's a fair point but I think it's a lot higher profile now than when Toffolo was younger and after Toney you know the punishment At the very least Harratt has got off very lightly Ferguson is the best manager in the modern era but he knew when to cut his loses, e.g Lee Sharpe Would Ferguson keep Harratt after this latest set back? Probably not |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2024 16:04:20 GMT 1
The difference here is that Harratt was done for hare coarsing, now this. Toffolo was done for betting only. The kid has talent but at what stage does that talent outweigh the behaviour off the pitch? Two excellent points made earlier in the thread; 1. Harratt would have benefitted from a Rocket Ron style mentor, absolutely. 2. Bullock was eventually moved on to Swindon partly due to his off the field behaviours. There is a line to be drawn with Harratt and sadly it’s in the club’s eyeline, it’s not on the distant horizon. His choice to save his potential career or end up playing Non-League. Interestingly though, he excelled under Warnock's wing and perhaps to a lesser extent with Jepson and old head in the dressing room, whereas Horton wasn't able to 'manage' Bullock as effectively. Perhaps if Warnock and Jepson had stayed in place longer this season they could have got Harratt more focussed on carving a football career than the less than inspirational Darren Bore did. DM can be blamed for many things but Harratt’s gambling isn’t one of them. Everyone has personal responsibility for their actions, Harratt included. |
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Post by ilsonterrier on Feb 12, 2024 18:10:20 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since.
I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 12, 2024 18:23:57 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since. I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that. Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney |
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Post by ilsonterrier on Feb 12, 2024 20:49:58 GMT 1
I think a large part of Toffolo's defence was that, at the time he placed the bets, he didn't know he wasn't allowed to gamble on football. Apparently he had never had it pointed out to him and he knew of other, more senior, players in his team who were doing it (no idea whether any of these have been punished - although one of them may well have been Toney at Scunthorpe). When he went to Lincoln he was told that he shouldn't bet and he hasn't placed a bet since. I didn't read the whole judgement on Toffolo but I seem to think I've seen something that mentioned he volunteered the fact that he placed bets, rather than being found out - but I'm not 100% on that. Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney Fair enough. I knew Toffolo's defence was based on copying actions of older players but not at which clubs - I was just making a guess. |
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Feb 14, 2024 0:40:07 GMT 1
Doubt it, Toffolo is older than Toney Fair enough. I knew Toffolo's defence was based on copying actions of older players but not at which clubs - I was just making a guess. Wasn't another mitigating factor in Toffolo's case that he was under-age when he was betting? |
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Post by belizian on Apr 29, 2024 1:33:39 GMT 1
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Post by melbourneterrier on Apr 29, 2024 5:00:03 GMT 1
I'm the opposite.
I'd like to see him moved on honestly
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Post by belizian on May 20, 2024 9:09:46 GMT 1
I watched the Crewe v Crawley final. A rough house. And that's all the leagues below the Championship are like. We need guys that can handle themselves and I'm pretty sure he can. The lad's no pussy, fans of both Bradford and Port Vale would have him back in a flash. He's one of very, very few that've come through the academy and that might make us some reasonable money. Won't suit the left of centre supporters on here but I'm a pragmatist and would love to see us develop a rated striker.. we've no one else in the wings.
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 9:14:24 GMT 1
He needs to do more for me, and that's coming from someone who has championed him over the last few years. I thought he was extremely poor last season outside the box and did nowhere near enough, so needs to improve that side of his game. Though I do think he's one of those players who is lethal in the box, but we need to play to those strengths.
It's the outside influences that are the problem, it seems. He'd probably benefit from going to a team that's miles away so he could get away from his family and the area he lives in.
I stand by the opinion that he would have really benefitted from a season with Ronnie Jepson.
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Post by monkbar on May 20, 2024 9:16:27 GMT 1
He's nowhere near good enough, no idea what other people are seeing that I'm not.
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Post by benhomly on May 20, 2024 9:16:30 GMT 1
I watched the Crewe v Crawley final. A rough house. And that's all the leagues below the Championship are like. We need guys that can handle themselves and I'm pretty sure he can. The lad's no pussy, fans of both Bradford and Port Vale would have him back in a flash. He's one of very, very few that've come through the academy and that might make us some reasonable money. Won't suit the left of centre supporters on here but I'm a pragmatist and would love to see us develop a rated striker.. we've no one else in the wings. Do you know that for a fact or are you just guessing? 5 goals in 22 for Port Vale and 1 in 9 for Bradford isn't great for a striker and suggests otherwise. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 9:17:22 GMT 1
I watched the Crewe v Crawley final. A rough house. And that's all the leagues below the Championship are like. We need guys that can handle themselves and I'm pretty sure he can. The lad's no pussy, fans of both Bradford and Port Vale would have him back in a flash. He's one of very, very few that've come through the academy and that might make us some reasonable money. Won't suit the left of centre supporters on here but I'm a pragmatist and would love to see us develop a rated striker.. we've no one else in the wings. Do you know that for a fact or are you just guessing? 5 goals in 22 for Port Vale and 1 in 9 for Bradford isn't great for a striker and suggests otherwise. They loved him at Port Vale. Not sure about Bradford. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 9:18:43 GMT 1
He's nowhere near good enough, no idea what other people are seeing that I'm not. Perhaps not, but he's scored a good few goals in the youth setup, and impressed Port Vale fans when he was there. There's certainly more to go on than the likes of Kyle Hudlin and Tyreece Simpson, who are utter rubbish. |
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Post by monkbar on May 20, 2024 9:21:31 GMT 1
He's nowhere near good enough, no idea what other people are seeing that I'm not. Perhaps not, but he's scored a good few goals in the youth setup, and impressed Port Vale fans when he was there. There's certainly more to go on than the likes of Kyle Hudlin and Tyreece Simpson, who are utter rubbish. Seen them all play for the 1st team and I'd argue not much between them. Hudlin has 1 in 9 and haratt 2 in 20. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 9:23:20 GMT 1
Perhaps not, but he's scored a good few goals in the youth setup, and impressed Port Vale fans when he was there. There's certainly more to go on than the likes of Kyle Hudlin and Tyreece Simpson, who are utter rubbish. Seen them all play for the 1st team and I'd argue not much between them. Hudlin has 1 in 9 and haratt 2 in 20. Hudlin is the worst player I've ever seen in a Town shirt. Harratt is nowhere near that. |
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Post by monkbar on May 20, 2024 9:27:03 GMT 1
And yet the stats don't agree. They both aren't good enough.
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 9:33:09 GMT 1
And yet the stats don't agree. They both aren't good enough. I'm not bothered about the stats, I know what I've seen with my own eyes. Hudlin is awful. Harratt isn't in the same category. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2024 9:34:58 GMT 1
I would keep as a 4/5th choice striker - an option off the bench when you need a goal. Definitely better than Hudlin and Simpson IMO.
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NickR
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Post by NickR on May 20, 2024 9:35:21 GMT 1
Posted before. I have been told by someone not connected to football that he has been caught again (killing a deer with dogs this time, allegedly). Think his time at town might be up if true.
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Post by boooothy on May 20, 2024 9:45:49 GMT 1
Very strange lad but i imagine his wages are very low and probably an unpopular opinion but i don’t care what he does off the pitch. The backward nob head can stay for me if he’s going to score some goals.
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Post by benhomly on May 20, 2024 9:56:46 GMT 1
Very strange lad but i imagine his wages are very low and probably an unpopular opinion but i don’t care what he does off the pitch. The backward nob head can stay for me if he’s going to score some goals. Says as much about you as it does him if that's your attitude. If all that matters is a football club benefitting from having a nasty piece of work like that in your ranks then it's a sorry state of affairs. Pathetic comment. |
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brighousesteve
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[M0:1]Those were the days my friend...
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Post by brighousesteve on May 20, 2024 10:01:59 GMT 1
Very strange lad but i imagine his wages are very low and probably an unpopular opinion but i don’t care what he does off the pitch. The backward nob head can stay for me if he’s going to score some goals. I disagree, this sort of behaviour will bring nothing but bad press for the club. He's had a chance and he blew it. Get rid. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 20, 2024 10:02:04 GMT 1
Very strange lad but i imagine his wages are very low and probably an unpopular opinion but i don’t care what he does off the pitch. The backward nob head can stay for me if he’s going to score some goals. Says as much about you as it does him if that's your attitude. If all that matters is a football club benefitting from having a nasty piece of work like that in your ranks then it's a sorry state of affairs. Pathetic comment. Nasty piece of work? Out of interest, what were your thoughts on us employing Adam Hammill, who assaulted a female paramedic? Or Darren Bullock, who had several convictions for assault while employed by Huddersfield Town? Or Andy Morrison, convicted of racially abusing and assaulting a bus driver while Town's captain? Or Terry Yorath, who ran over a girl whilst drink driving and broke her pelvis? Or Ronnie Jepson, who before signing for Town was on trial for his involvement in the Heysel Disaster? Were they nasty pieces of work too? |
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