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Post by Porrohman on Oct 9, 2023 15:05:51 GMT 1
Lucky we seem to have a CEO and Chairman who are talking investment in January…..so Moore won’t need to just get a tune out of this squad as he starts to build his own squad… I'm hoping that's the reason the squad got trimmed so much, so there was more leeway for THEIR man to build a decent squad, rather than having a whole load of players he doesn't want/rate. Conversely though, whose to say that DM wouldn't have wanted to keep some of those offloaded? Still trying to stay optimistic about the new regime, but it's getting harder to stay onboard as the results and performances deteriorate. We've no idea of the sort of player he wants to bring in 🫣
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Post by dugnet on Oct 9, 2023 15:06:37 GMT 1
Keeping Neil was the only decent decision that should have been done!!! All this talk of a 3 year plan....we could have had a 10 month plan with Neil in charge..and he hinted there was no reason why we couldn't be in or around the playoffs this season Ridiculous decision making the best manager this division has ever seen stand down! If it isn't broken don't fix it Keeping Neil was not an option, NW made you think it was with all his PR spin but honestly NW had to go, there was not a choice in this at all we could have extended his stay by a few weeks but that is it. Why wasn't it an option? What was the determining factor?
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 9, 2023 15:09:24 GMT 1
Keeping Neil was not an option, NW made you think it was with all his PR spin but honestly NW had to go, there was not a choice in this at all we could have extended his stay by a few weeks but that is it. Why wasn't it an option? What was the determining factor? This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it.
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Post by dugnet on Oct 9, 2023 15:11:58 GMT 1
It's a fair question, even allowing for injury (Hogg on Tuesday) why move away from a structure and style that worked so well (and it did) against Ipswich? That question is nothing to do with squad strength or investment that's about simple playing strategy and tactics. I do think it is too early to be harshly critical but fans will expect and demand better against QPR. We know our squad depth is shallow so DM has to get the best from them. Ipswich was massively encouraging, what has followed has been all the more baffling after that performance. I hope it's a blip and we can pick up. The starting eleven for Wednesday game included 10 of the players that started the Ipswich game..the only change was Edwards for Wiles, but you're right..the 'game plan' and set up changed...I preferred the Warnock way where we played the same way every game,home and away...once he'd found the formula.. I accept that against Ipswich Hogg was at his best, there was probably little coincidence that Ipswich scored after he went off, but even allowing for that at Birmingham the set up and performance were miles off. I am happy to give DM enough time as Ipswich was a very decent showing. However, as you say, why wasn't that carried forward? The next few games need us to be more Ipswich. I can take losing and having a plan/playing well but performances when you are left scratching your head won't wash - when we had someone in charge who was likely to be consistent.
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Post by waggers on Oct 9, 2023 15:17:15 GMT 1
Keeping Neil was the only decent decision that should have been done!!! All this talk of a 3 year plan....we could have had a 10 month plan with Neil in charge..and he hinted there was no reason why we couldn't be in or around the playoffs this season Ridiculous decision making the best manager this division has ever seen stand down! If it isn't broken don't fix it Keeping Neil was not an option, NW made you think it was with all his PR spin but honestly NW had to go, there was not a choice in this at all we could have extended his stay by a few weeks but that is it. Rubbish. Nagle and the team wanted to swap Warnock for a more compliant manager and deemed Moore as acceptable. You're saying he was asked to stay on in the summer and sacked in September and all of a sudden him leaving early was always going to happen? No chance, the chairman and the higher level management wanted Warnock gone because he voiced his opinion. They wanted him gone as soon as he bit back at Nagle and afte he clearly let it be known the transfer activity was poor to say the least.
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Oct 9, 2023 15:18:35 GMT 1
Im sure we were here last year with our Scottish friend. He needs the international break, then no change, he needs a transfer window, then no change. Certainly he has taken this squad backwards so far in terms of competing in games, creating chances and scoring. I hope it works out because we need stability but he certainly doesn't seem to be able to get what Neil and Ronnie got from this squad. That there are so many Town fans comparing Moore to Fotheringham is madness. He's got 5 years experience as a manager with a promotion to his name. Give the man a chance. All I have said is that all metrics since he took over have gone backwards and that like Fotheringham the international break was going to be a big deal in getting ideas into the players. Pretty accurate. Hopefully we see performances and chances created improve after the break because 0 shots on target against the worst team to this point in championship history was not very good. If not then the comparisons will become more valid. He was always on a hiding to nothing if he didn't start well because for many it was a ludicrous decision by the club and I suspect not fully for the reasons given. At least we have a manager that will not rock the boat if we don't get that striker in January.
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Post by dugnet on Oct 9, 2023 15:21:27 GMT 1
Why wasn't it an option? What was the determining factor? This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. On one hand I accept the decision has been made but, as you elude to, if results are poor fans will question the decision making at the club. The new owners are under scrutiny and will be judged by these decisions. That said it is too early to panic and judge DM harshly but with every poor result the speculation and assessment of Mr Nagle and team will increase. They must however know this and have a plan, or you hope they do.... That is why people ask the question about why NW left, to try and put the pieces together.
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 9, 2023 15:31:06 GMT 1
Why wasn't it an option? What was the determining factor? This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him.
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Post by hoggy1975 on Oct 9, 2023 15:50:56 GMT 1
²Saturday was the perfect chance to show some attacking intent. Instead we ended up with every defensive player in the ranks playing leaving sorba, burgzorg and Thomas isolated against lets be honest the worst opposition we will ever play in the championship. First time I've heard Rudoni described as a defensive player but what do I know. The only strange decision on Saturday was bringing Edwards back in, otherwise he picked pretty much any team Warnock would have picked. Everyone seems to be clamouring for Harratt to be included but he's shown nothing so far to suggest he isn't just a younger version of Danny Ward running around aimlessly on his own. Apart from that goal against Watford last season which apparently no-one else in the squad could have ever scored. Don't get all the anti-Moore stuff. He got 96 points last season with a very poor squad (as we saw on Saturday when the caretaker brought all last seasons side back in bar one). And when that bizarrely didn't get them automatic promotion he motivated a bang average side to turn round a 4 goal deficit in the play-offs to get them through to the final. Or was that just a fluke? Same players, but some playing in different positions that don't suit their game. Lets be honest Edwards is shite as well. They had one of the most expensive squads in the league and have had since they got relegated. Let's not forget it's a squad he assembled that we played on Saturday and they looked awful. I'm prepared to give him time of course but I think he jumped too early changing the tactics when he had hardly any time on the training pitch and would have been better waiting for the international break.
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Post by dugnet on Oct 9, 2023 15:55:53 GMT 1
This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. In which case we have to judge the "decision", and give it reasonable time. It is only natural that people will point to the change negatively if results don't go well. The rumour mill about why the decision was taken doesn't really help.
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Post by 28901 on Oct 9, 2023 16:18:57 GMT 1
Keeping Neil was the only decent decision that should have been done!!! All this talk of a 3 year plan....we could have had a 10 month plan with Neil in charge..and he hinted there was no reason why we couldn't be in or around the playoffs this season Ridiculous decision making the best manager this division has ever seen stand down! If it isn't broken don't fix it Keeping Neil was not an option, NW made you think it was with all his PR spin but honestly NW had to go, there was not a choice in this at all we could have extended his stay by a few weeks but that is it. I have no reason to doubt you but please could you explain why he had to go? Genuinely, how do you know this?
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Post by 28901 on Oct 9, 2023 16:22:21 GMT 1
This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. Did you hear the RL interview with Jepson? It was as clear as could be that they wanted to stay and were forced out.
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Oct 9, 2023 16:25:37 GMT 1
This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. Partly because that is not what he said at all. He was surprised how soon they made the change, he said repeatedly he expected to be here until at least Christmas and Ronnie expected to be here for the season. Warnock has gone on at length to stress his appetite for the game is back and he is definitely not retiring. The only thing he has said that is close to what you are saying is that the club have treated him right in terms of allowing him to decide which game was his last and paying him and his staff. If Warnock for 1 minute thought he was leaving in September he would not have brought the coaches in and he even said at the press conference where he was announced the second time, you wont sack me in September will you!!!!!
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Post by castlehillterrier on Oct 9, 2023 16:45:34 GMT 1
Keeping Neil was not an option, NW made you think it was with all his PR spin but honestly NW had to go, there was not a choice in this at all we could have extended his stay by a few weeks but that is it. I have no reason to doubt you but please could you explain why he had to go? Genuinely, how do you know this? - NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. - NW was not in training enough for KN and the new team this was agreed but long term not sustainable, players had way too much time off or without the manager in attendance - DM was identified as a possible option to come in, he could not come in sooner contractually. - NW said some bits in the press (we all know what) that was not acceptable to the new leadership team which with the bad start to the season made us proceed slightly quicker than expected but honestly the plan was to have someone in by this current international break - NW was travelling from Cornwall on a weekly basis something also not sustainable long term. The main point here is NW was never a long term plan and yes it’s maybe a month or too sooner brought on by an identified target being available and NW speaking a little out of tern, if DM is the right choice who knows but if it wasn’t him it would be someone else and about the same time, either way as agreed NW was leaving
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Post by twyford on Oct 9, 2023 16:53:21 GMT 1
This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. Because if you don't buy in to a conspiracy theory you're apparently a happy clapping sheep (or some such).
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 9, 2023 16:58:06 GMT 1
Why wasn't it an option? What was the determining factor? This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. Warnock wouldn't play ball and basically sidelined Cartwright. So basically, we had this new system in place with the CEO, Director of Football Operations and all that and then Warnock, who is very much his own man and wants to do what he's always done and have full control and didn't fit into that system. He'd fallen out with Nagle already and they weren't getting on. Or Nagle had fallen out with him or whatever. That's what I heard anyway.
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 9, 2023 16:59:23 GMT 1
I have no reason to doubt you but please could you explain why he had to go? Genuinely, how do you know this? - NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. - NW was not in training enough for KN and the new team this was agreed but long term not sustainable, players had way too much time off or without the manager in attendance - DM was identified as a possible option to come in, he could not come in sooner contractually. - NW said some bits in the press (we all know what) that was not acceptable to the new leadership team which with the bad start to the season made us proceed slightly quicker than expected but honestly the plan was to have someone in by this current international break - NW was travelling from Cornwall on a weekly basis something also not sustainable long term. The main point here is NW was never a long term plan and yes it’s maybe a month or too sooner brought on by an identified target being available and NW speaking a little out of tern, if DM is the right choice who knows but if it wasn’t him it would be someone else and about the same time, either way as agreed NW was leaving Yet this is how Warnock has operated for over 20 years and achieved multiple promotions and Great Escapes by doing so
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Post by castlehillterrier on Oct 9, 2023 17:09:33 GMT 1
- NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. - NW was not in training enough for KN and the new team this was agreed but long term not sustainable, players had way too much time off or without the manager in attendance - DM was identified as a possible option to come in, he could not come in sooner contractually. - NW said some bits in the press (we all know what) that was not acceptable to the new leadership team which with the bad start to the season made us proceed slightly quicker than expected but honestly the plan was to have someone in by this current international break - NW was travelling from Cornwall on a weekly basis something also not sustainable long term. The main point here is NW was never a long term plan and yes it’s maybe a month or too sooner brought on by an identified target being available and NW speaking a little out of tern, if DM is the right choice who knows but if it wasn’t him it would be someone else and about the same time, either way as agreed NW was leaving Yet this is how Warnock has operated for over 20 years and achieved multiple promotions and Great Escapes by doing so But it’s not how HTAFC want to operate, it’s not how NW used to operate it’s how he has in his last few jobs only. NW a did exactly what the team wanted him to, keep everything stable until we have everyone in place we want to move forward, this is not just DM but every part of the club, everyone thanked NW and he agreed to all of this when signing on again in the summer, it just that NW doesn’t want it to sound like this and prefers to get the sympathy from everyone and I am sure there is a reason for this, so he gets another job in February when he wants one,
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 9, 2023 17:14:28 GMT 1
Yet this is how Warnock has operated for over 20 years and achieved multiple promotions and Great Escapes by doing so But it’s not how HTAFC want to operate, it’s not how NW used to operate it’s how he has in his last few jobs only. NW a did exactly what the team wanted him to, keep everything stable until we have everyone in place we want to move forward, this is not just DM but every part of the club, everyone thanked NW and he agreed to all of this when signing on again in the summer, it just that NW doesn’t want it to sound like this and prefers to get the sympathy from everyone and I am sure there is a reason for this, so he gets another job in February when he wants one, He's done it since he took over at Sheffield United in 1999.
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 9, 2023 17:22:55 GMT 1
I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. In which case we have to judge the "decision", and give it reasonable time. It is only natural that people will point to the change negatively if results don't go well. The rumour mill about why the decision was taken doesn't really help. Because both sides are saying the same thing,. I think on this occasion we should probably ignore the rumour mill. Moore seems to be getting some premature stick...even by Town fans standards it seems pretty knee-jerk. 4 games, 3 away from home.....3 draws and a defeat....1 very good performance, 1 decent one, one poor one and one awful one. can maybe start to judge him after 10 games IMO.
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Post by castlehillterrier on Oct 9, 2023 17:35:29 GMT 1
But it’s not how HTAFC want to operate, it’s not how NW used to operate it’s how he has in his last few jobs only. NW a did exactly what the team wanted him to, keep everything stable until we have everyone in place we want to move forward, this is not just DM but every part of the club, everyone thanked NW and he agreed to all of this when signing on again in the summer, it just that NW doesn’t want it to sound like this and prefers to get the sympathy from everyone and I am sure there is a reason for this, so he gets another job in February when he wants one, He's done it since he took over at Sheffield United in 1999. Not like he has been doing at town, he was only working Thursday, Friday and Saturday on the weeks with no midweek game. Players also off for 6says last international break
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 9, 2023 17:41:42 GMT 1
He's done it since he took over at Sheffield United in 1999. Not like he has been doing at town, he was only working Thursday, Friday and Saturday on the weeks with no midweek game. Players also off for 6says last international break And what were the results following that international break?
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Post by andyeastleake on Oct 9, 2023 17:43:20 GMT 1
- NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. I have no knowledge of whether that statement is correct or not. However, if it is correct, I don't view the following comments from Jake Edwards on 17th June 23 particularly favourably. "We’ve heard Town fans loud and clear, both at the Reading game and ever since. You all wanted ‘one more year’ under Neil and Ronnie, and this had to be our first order of business as we prepare for the new season. “Neil and Ronnie have incredible knowledge and skill as a management team; that was clear in the job they achieved here at the end of last season. They also have an amazing connection with this Club and our supporters, which is also so valuable. “We’re so pleased Neil has agreed to stay on for another season. I know how determined he is to build on the job he’s done last season, and he offers us great experience and stability on the football side as we prepare for the prospective change of ownership.” Nothing in that suggests it was until a replacement is found, absolutely nothing at all. Did Edwards lie?
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Post by andyeastleake on Oct 9, 2023 17:51:02 GMT 1
Because both sides are saying the same thing,. Are they Captain? Jake Edwards didn't mention "until a replacemement is found" in the club's official statement on the appointment. ...& (as 28091 pointed out - but you seem to have overlooked the question) Ronnie Jepson made it clear they wanted to continue in his Radio Leeds interview. I'm no great fan of conspiracy theories but all the evidence I've seen suggests the club changed their mind (or deliberately mis-led supporters).
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Oct 9, 2023 18:00:05 GMT 1
He's done it since he took over at Sheffield United in 1999. Not like he has been doing at town, he was only working Thursday, Friday and Saturday on the weeks with no midweek game. Players also off for 6says last international break Won at West Brom 2-1 before the break, won against Rotherham after the break. Moore has had two easier games and already can’t match that total. Just admit it you fell out with Neil because he stuck up for himself in a press conference and your ego got the better of you. You’ve also just put a hell of a lot of pressure on Moore considering he said he was doing two weeks of work. He almost now has to ensure a better performance than Wednesday away and also get 3 points.
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Post by htafcokay on Oct 9, 2023 18:01:13 GMT 1
- NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. I have no knowledge of whether that statement is correct or not. However, if it is correct, I don't view the following comments from Jake Edwards on 17th June 23 particularly favourably. "We’ve heard Town fans loud and clear, both at the Reading game and ever since. You all wanted ‘one more year’ under Neil and Ronnie, and this had to be our first order of business as we prepare for the new season. “Neil and Ronnie have incredible knowledge and skill as a management team; that was clear in the job they achieved here at the end of last season. They also have an amazing connection with this Club and our supporters, which is also so valuable. “We’re so pleased Neil has agreed to stay on for another season. I know how determined he is to build on the job he’s done last season, and he offers us great experience and stability on the football side as we prepare for the prospective change of ownership.” Nothing in that suggests it was until a replacement is found, absolutely nothing at all. Did Edwards lie?This is where the theory falls down for me. They gave Warnock a full pre-season, allowed him to let a number of players go, bring in a couple, have a clean sweep of backroom staff including the immensely popular Pelach and Clements, bring in two more coaches in order to get rid of them just six weeks into the season? How much has that cost?
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 9, 2023 18:03:17 GMT 1
This is it. Folk keep intimating something bad happened but nobody's prepared to expand on it. I dont think anyones intimating that anything 'bad' happened...just that the arrangement ( and what Warnock wanted when he agreed to stay on into this season ) was that he'd be replaced when a new manager was decided on, probably well before the January window opened so the new man can assess what he wants. This is what warnock himself said was always the arrangement,, I dont know why people are refusing to believe him. Castle Hill said he couldn't stay on, Portugal Terrier said he sacked himself. Warnock doing "Warnock things" was mentioned by ITK posters around the time the news of him leaving got out. These are the posts that I see as intimating something happened. Is it beyond belief that they've agreed a story where they all save face 🤷
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 9, 2023 18:13:00 GMT 1
Yet this is how Warnock has operated for over 20 years and achieved multiple promotions and Great Escapes by doing so But it’s not how HTAFC want to operate, it’s not how NW used to operate it’s how he has in his last few jobs only. NW a did exactly what the team wanted him to, keep everything stable until we have everyone in place we want to move forward, this is not just DM but every part of the club, everyone thanked NW and he agreed to all of this when signing on again in the summer, it just that NW doesn’t want it to sound like this and prefers to get the sympathy from everyone and I am sure there is a reason for this, so he gets another job in February when he wants one, So why beg him to stay on, if the way he worked wasn't the way 3 people with cock all knowledge of how to run a serious football club in a proper league wanted to 🤔 And then to decide out of all the available managers in world football, Big Dave was the best man for the job 🤷
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Post by castlehillterrier on Oct 9, 2023 18:23:43 GMT 1
- NW agreed a contract to stay until a replacement was found this could have been anytime from first game to last game of the season. I have no knowledge of whether that statement is correct or not. However, if it is correct, I don't view the following comments from Jake Edwards on 17th June 23 particularly favourably. "We’ve heard Town fans loud and clear, both at the Reading game and ever since. You all wanted ‘one more year’ under Neil and Ronnie, and this had to be our first order of business as we prepare for the new season. “Neil and Ronnie have incredible knowledge and skill as a management team; that was clear in the job they achieved here at the end of last season. They also have an amazing connection with this Club and our supporters, which is also so valuable. “We’re so pleased Neil has agreed to stay on for another season. I know how determined he is to build on the job he’s done last season, and he offers us great experience and stability on the football side as we prepare for the prospective change of ownership.” Nothing in that suggests it was until a replacement is found, absolutely nothing at all. Did Edwards lie?What do you expect them to say at that point ? Anything other than this and it couldn’t possibly work, if you say “oh Neil is only back until we find someone else” then the players don’t get behind what Neil is doing and it’s a disaster, say he is here for the season players knuckle down and get on with it it’s completely logical they say what they did, NW knew more as did the key decision makers but not many others not even sure Neil told RR, it could have been all season if we didn’t find someone we did and it happened end of now it’s time to back DM sand if it doesn’t work out we will move on again that’s football.
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Post by castlehillterrier on Oct 9, 2023 18:26:32 GMT 1
But it’s not how HTAFC want to operate, it’s not how NW used to operate it’s how he has in his last few jobs only. NW a did exactly what the team wanted him to, keep everything stable until we have everyone in place we want to move forward, this is not just DM but every part of the club, everyone thanked NW and he agreed to all of this when signing on again in the summer, it just that NW doesn’t want it to sound like this and prefers to get the sympathy from everyone and I am sure there is a reason for this, so he gets another job in February when he wants one, So why beg him to stay on, if the way he worked wasn't the way 3 people with cock all knowledge of how to run a serious football club in a proper league wanted to 🤔 And then to decide out of all the available managers in world football, Big Dave was the best man for the job 🤷 3 people with no knowledge are you joking we have some of the most experienced people in the whole league leading us we have appointed really well and so much stronger than we have been for years off the pitch, it does however take time, Rome was not built in a day,
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