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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on May 17, 2024 10:07:14 GMT 1
When Cartwright said he didn't feel under threat for his job I thought, that sounds confident given we've just been relegated.
I seem to recall seeing someone say that the AB decision was to some degree Kev's. I wonder if Cartwright was backing Duff first time around and got overruled? And maybe his objections (if he had any) about AB were proved correct in how things played out?
Could be well wide of the mark, but might explain the relative serenity of Cartwright in that interview and why he's still here. Also he did re-interview for his job (which if it was rigorous is a good idea) which will also have something to do with it.
And yes I also think it's time to move on from giving the guy grief constantly.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on May 17, 2024 10:09:17 GMT 1
It is quite tiresome I agree, but when he says things like we are in a better position than last year, he can do one. Thing is with that quote it gets taken out of context. He clearly won’t mean getting relegated and been in league 1 compared to the champ is a better position to be in. He will be referring to as a base to work from. A clean slate,fresh start,a manager who wants to build something,a full summer to work with etc etc We literally had none of those things last summer it was all very last minute and rushed and make do. Eveb if we give him a free pass from the summer, he did not pick up the pace from then on did he. Sack one manager and replace him with a waste of space and then kept him on for too longI also have criticised because you have to.Moore was a bad decision he has to take that one on the chin(someone will say chins) although this won’t be popular going off what andre said Moore probably did slightly better than what will ever be said about his time. He showed how well he did at Port ValeAndre right man wrong time although I’m still firmly of the belief that Kevin took that decision out of his hands. Another free pass for him, are you related?January,his explanation while it makes sense I’ll only accept it if this summer turns out to be a success. Why? It was obvious what we needed and the players had to hit the ground running from the off to keep us up.The jury is still out but I think bashing him at every opportunity and magnifying every single thing he says at this stage needs to stop. Why, I can't think of a single good thing he has done while he has been here.As a side note when edwards gets thrown in I also find that strange as I’m not having he’s directly anything really to do with decisions that impact the playing side. Anyone would think he was the second coming of Dean the way some turn a blind eye to this last year. |
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Post by gledholt terrier on May 17, 2024 10:33:34 GMT 1
“What he meant to say….” Is always a large red flag.
Where was the self awareness, any trace of humility or contrition?
The Ferrari/Fiat quote will come to bite him on the arse in the absence of significant success (see also, “we won’t sleepwalk to relegation”, “champagne football on beer money” and pretty much everything Fotheringham said).
All he had to do was say a few humble words, shut the fuck up and hope against hope that promotion at the first attempt with the new management team’s FOURTH!! managerial choice elevates his reputation among the fan base to just about acceptable.
Disastrous personal PR.
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Post by dugnet on May 17, 2024 10:33:51 GMT 1
I thought he sounded far more professional yesterday and focused. Yesterday was the sort of presser we needed a year ago (when Mr Nagle took over). That doesn't mean the Duff era will be successful of course but it felt more coherent and in Duff I think we have a character not afraid to challenge upwards.
Cartwright isn't going anywhere so he must be judged on this next season. As there is so much to do (I think we probably don't realise how bad things are behind the scenes) I actually don't expect a promotion (just being realistic) but we have to start showing we are building to be better.
Mid table mediocrity, or worse, won't cut it.
There was a lot of taking the talk yesterday. As was said, we now need to see actions that deliver.
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Post by dezzly on May 17, 2024 10:40:06 GMT 1
Thing is with that quote it gets taken out of context. He clearly won’t mean getting relegated and been in league 1 compared to the champ is a better position to be in. He will be referring to as a base to work from. A clean slate,fresh start,a manager who wants to build something,a full summer to work with etc etc We literally had none of those things last summer it was all very last minute and rushed and make do. Eveb if we give him a free pass from the summer, he did not pick up the pace from then on did he. Sack one manager and replace him with a waste of space and then kept him on for too longI also have criticised because you have to.Moore was a bad decision he has to take that one on the chin(someone will say chins) although this won’t be popular going off what andre said Moore probably did slightly better than what will ever be said about his time. He showed how well he did at Port ValeAndre right man wrong time although I’m still firmly of the belief that Kevin took that decision out of his hands. Another free pass for him, are you related?January,his explanation while it makes sense I’ll only accept it if this summer turns out to be a success. Why? It was obvious what we needed and the players had to hit the ground running from the off to keep us up.The jury is still out but I think bashing him at every opportunity and magnifying every single thing he says at this stage needs to stop. Why, I can't think of a single good thing he has done while he has been here.As a side note when edwards gets thrown in I also find that strange as I’m not having he’s directly anything really to do with decisions that impact the playing side. Anyone would think he was the second coming of Dean the way some turn a blind eye to this last year. Where do I mention anything about a free pass,iv literally says the jury is still out. I’m merely pointing out there could be reasons for everything that’s gone on.it could also be that as you imply,hew useless. I’m willing to see if those reasons were valid and he can still do some good,you’re not. I’m also not saying anyone has to agree with me it’s just what I think. I maybe that you are proved completely right With the January stuff I can accept that maybe in the position we were in for many players it wasn’t an attractive move so we had to take some gambles,others won’t accept that,fair enough. I can also see a scenario where we have a good summer and on top of that the likes of balker,Healey,Radulovic and Spencer all play major parts…others won’t see that,again fair enough. I guess I just don’t see everything as black or white.I’m also someone who can draw a line pretty quickly and look to what’s next,again some can’t. All your counter arguements are valid points we just see it a little differently at this point. I also happen to think we’ve had so much chopping and changing recently in that area of the club that getting in someone else could end up taking us even further backwards,that may also be wrong. Either way I think the time has come to put opinions to one side and not bring up Cartwright at every juncture,let’s just see what happens. |
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Post by dugnet on May 17, 2024 10:41:19 GMT 1
“What he meant to say….” Is always a large red flag. Where was the self awareness, any trace of humility or contrition? The Ferrari/Fiat quote will come to bite him on the arse in the absence of significant success (see also, “we won’t sleepwalk to relegation”, “champagne football on beer money” and pretty much everything Fotheringham said). All he had to do was say a few humble words, shut the fuck up and hope against hope that promotion at the first attempt with the new management team’s FOURTH!! managerial choice elevates his reputation among the fan base to just about acceptable. Disastrous personal PR. The Ferrari analogy was daft - he has set his own recruitment bar. That said I do think he was more professional but he has to deliver. I also think Duff isn't the sort of bloke to allow any bs and will be managing MC as much as the team ie Duff won't allow himself to be a hostage to fortune as a result of MC's performance. If Duff is going to be the manager I think he wants to be then he won't allow someone else prevent him from getting there. It could be a compelling watch how these two get on in the coming months. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on May 17, 2024 10:49:38 GMT 1
“What he meant to say….” Is always a large red flag. Where was the self awareness, any trace of humility or contrition? The Ferrari/Fiat quote will come to bite him on the arse in the absence of significant success (see also, “we won’t sleepwalk to relegation”, “champagne football on beer money” and pretty much everything Fotheringham said). All he had to do was say a few humble words, shut the fuck up and hope against hope that promotion at the first attempt with the new management team’s FOURTH!! managerial choice elevates his reputation among the fan base to just about acceptable. Disastrous personal PR. The Ferrari analogy was daft - he has set his own recruitment bar. That said I do think he was more professional but he has to deliver. I also think Duff isn't the sort of bloke to allow any bs and will be managing MC as much as the team ie Duff won't allow himself to be a hostage to fortune as a result of MC's performance. If Duff is going to be the manager I think he wants to be then he won't allow someone else prevent him from getting there. It could be a compelling watch how these two get on in the coming months. Think that’s a good point about managing upwards. Duff seems a strong and clear minded character and probably the right sort of character to work with a sporting director. |
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Post by Sio on May 17, 2024 10:53:03 GMT 1
I think something we maybe need to accept is that a lot of DOFs have a similar, car-salesman type personality. They're not endearing at all.
Webber hasn't covered himself in glory recently but a lot of our fans would've had him back. I've met Ross Wilson a couple of times and he seems a nice chap, but there's still that edge there. I'd wager Bromby is the same.
Maybe we have to come to terms with the persona that they all try to exude and judge them on their work - which, of course, Cartwright has to improve immensely this season.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on May 17, 2024 10:53:13 GMT 1
Anyone would think he was the second coming of Dean the way some turn a blind eye to this last year. Where do I mention anything about a free pass,iv literally says the jury is still out. I’m merely pointing out there could be reasons for everything that’s gone on.it could also be that as you imply,hew useless. I’m willing to see if those reasons were valid and he can still do some good,you’re not. I’m also not saying anyone has to agree with me it’s just what I think. I maybe that you are proved completely right With the January stuff I can accept that maybe in the position we were in for many players it wasn’t an attractive move so we had to take some gambles,others won’t accept that,fair enough. I can also see a scenario where we have a good summer and on top of that the likes of balker,Healey,Radulovic and Spencer all play major parts…others won’t see that,again fair enough. I guess I just don’t see everything as black or white.I’m also someone who can draw a line pretty quickly and look to what’s next,again some can’t. All your counter arguments are valid points we just see it a little differently at this point. I also happen to think we’ve had so much chopping and changing recently in that area of the club that getting in someone else could end up taking us even further backwards,that may also be wrong. Either way I think the time has come to put opinions to one side and not bring up Cartwright at every juncture,let’s just see what happens. A considered and well thought out response. I just get a little uptight when in my opinion someone who has damaged my football club so much is still there and some people want to give him another year before they can tell if is any good or not. In our work (whatever it is) no one gets a year in a post when they can't live up to the required standard. If it was your company you could not put up with someone who employs people into positions that they are not able to meet the required standards. If they did you would not listen to the argument of please give me another year, I will do better in the next 12 months. |
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Post by dezzly on May 17, 2024 11:03:14 GMT 1
Where do I mention anything about a free pass,iv literally says the jury is still out. I’m merely pointing out there could be reasons for everything that’s gone on.it could also be that as you imply,hew useless. I’m willing to see if those reasons were valid and he can still do some good,you’re not. I’m also not saying anyone has to agree with me it’s just what I think. I maybe that you are proved completely right With the January stuff I can accept that maybe in the position we were in for many players it wasn’t an attractive move so we had to take some gambles,others won’t accept that,fair enough. I can also see a scenario where we have a good summer and on top of that the likes of balker,Healey,Radulovic and Spencer all play major parts…others won’t see that,again fair enough. I guess I just don’t see everything as black or white.I’m also someone who can draw a line pretty quickly and look to what’s next,again some can’t. All your counter arguments are valid points we just see it a little differently at this point. I also happen to think we’ve had so much chopping and changing recently in that area of the club that getting in someone else could end up taking us even further backwards,that may also be wrong. Either way I think the time has come to put opinions to one side and not bring up Cartwright at every juncture,let’s just see what happens. A considered and well thought out response. I just get a little uptight when in my opinion someone who has damaged my football club so much is still there and some people want to give him another year before they can tell if is any good or not. In our work (whatever it is) no one gets a year in a post when they can't live up to the required standard. If it was your company you could not put up with someone who employs people into positions that they are not able to meet the required standards. If they did you would not listen to the argument of please give me another year, I will do better in the next 12 months. I take your point with the work comparison although if you flipped it all on it’s head and you walked into a job already behind in relation to the rest and then your hands were partially tied in terms of the resources needed to do a good job and that that initial job would have a knock on effect on everything else I think everyone here would want to outline reasons why they didn’t perform. Yes I agree in most jobs it wouldn’t matter that there were reasons they would probably be gone. I’m by no means all in on Cartwright by any stretch,I wasn’t with Moore but if I can see reasons why something might have happened I’m more inclined to want a longer period to judge. That might actually be a good thing in the real world but when giving your opinion as a football fan things can change and move that quick that a lot of the time you don’t get that time or you’re very quickly made to realise that the snap decision or opinion has been proved right. Let’s hope in hindsight down the line that keeping him on in what will be a very important summer is the wrong decision. |
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Post by irverino on May 17, 2024 11:09:32 GMT 1
When Cartwright said he didn't feel under threat for his job I thought, that sounds confident given we've just been relegated. I seem to recall seeing someone say that the AB decision was to some degree Kev's. I wonder if Cartwright was backing Duff first time around and got overruled? And maybe his objections (if he had any) about AB were proved correct in how things played out? Could be well wide of the mark, but might explain the relative serenity of Cartwright in that interview and why he's still here. Also he did re-interview for his job (which if it was rigorous is a good idea) which will also have something to do with it. And yes I also think it's time to move on from giving the guy grief constantly. Didn't CD say it was completely untrue that KN overruled on the AB decision, with comments about wishing he'd never taken the job in the 1st place just who was working with AB behind the scenes from upstairs?.........How soon after taking the post did he have these thoughts & were they relayed to anyone (JE/MC), could explain some of his poor team selections & substitutions if AB wanted a way out, no guarantee he would have stayed even in the championship. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on May 17, 2024 11:11:50 GMT 1
When Cartwright said he didn't feel under threat for his job I thought, that sounds confident given we've just been relegated. I seem to recall seeing someone say that the AB decision was to some degree Kev's. I wonder if Cartwright was backing Duff first time around and got overruled? And maybe his objections (if he had any) about AB were proved correct in how things played out? Could be well wide of the mark, but might explain the relative serenity of Cartwright in that interview and why he's still here. Also he did re-interview for his job (which if it was rigorous is a good idea) which will also have something to do with it. And yes I also think it's time to move on from giving the guy grief constantly. Didn't CD say it was completely untrue that KN overruled on the AB decision, with comments about wishing he'd never taken the job in the 1st place just who was working with AB behind the scenes from upstairs?.........How soon after taking the post did he have these thoughts & were they relayed to anyone (JE/MC), could explain some of his poor team selections & substitutions if AB wanted a way out, no guarantee he would have stayed even in the championship. Yeah he did, so it might not be true, but if it was a group decision Cartwright might have been in the minority. Might not have, but it might explain a couple of things. I do recall one or two people tweeting Kev saying that a German coach is where we'd had success - hope it wasn't the tail wagging the dog. |
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Post by Mastercracker on May 17, 2024 11:14:11 GMT 1
I think something we maybe need to accept is that a lot of DOFs have a similar, car-salesman type personality. They're not endearing at all. Webber hasn't covered himself in glory recently but a lot of our fans would've had him back. I've met Ross Wilson a couple of times and he seems a nice chap, but there's still that edge there. I'd wager Bromby is the same. Maybe we have to come to terms with the persona that they all try to exude and judge them on their work - which, of course, Cartwright has to improve immensely this season. I’m not saying Cartwright is great but I don’t know any fanbase that loves their DOF/Sporting Director. If the team is doing well they are completely unnoticed and it’s all down to the manager, and if the team isn’t doing well fans want their head on a spike for every decision. It’s a position that in this country is still shown suspicion and misunderstanding imo. |
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Post by dezzly on May 17, 2024 11:25:48 GMT 1
Didn't CD say it was completely untrue that KN overruled on the AB decision, with comments about wishing he'd never taken the job in the 1st place just who was working with AB behind the scenes from upstairs?.........How soon after taking the post did he have these thoughts & were they relayed to anyone (JE/MC), could explain some of his poor team selections & substitutions if AB wanted a way out, no guarantee he would have stayed even in the championship. Yeah he did, so it might not be true, but if it was a group decision Cartwright might have been in the minority. Might not have, but it might explain a couple of things. I do recall one or two people tweeting Kev saying that a German coach is where we'd had success - hope it wasn't the tail wagging the dog. The narrative at the time was that we needed attacking front foot football.That was probably largely born out of how Moore went about things. Duff was mentioned throughout the process,not officially of course,and the general consensus seemed to be he couldn’t provide that type of football. I’m not saying it has but could that have swayed the club to go another direction or look at other options?the noise was extremely loud in social media around that point as everyone was completely fed up. Let’s face it we’ll probably never know. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on May 17, 2024 11:49:44 GMT 1
Yeah he did, so it might not be true, but if it was a group decision Cartwright might have been in the minority. Might not have, but it might explain a couple of things. I do recall one or two people tweeting Kev saying that a German coach is where we'd had success - hope it wasn't the tail wagging the dog. The narrative at the time was that we needed attacking front foot football.That was probably largely born out of how Moore went about things. Duff was mentioned throughout the process,not officially of course,and the general consensus seemed to be he couldn’t provide that type of football. I’m not saying it has but could that have swayed the club to go another direction or look at other options?the noise was extremely loud in social media around that point as everyone was completely fed up. Let’s face it we’ll probably never know. There was mention yesterday of the chairman wanting a certain type of football - wasn't referenced but yes I think 'front foot attacking football' or thereabouts is probably what they mean by that. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on May 17, 2024 18:01:39 GMT 1
What would be success for Cartwright this summer window?
Getting the new squad together for when the players return for training?
Any ideas anyone?
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Jun 1, 2024 9:22:31 GMT 1
The fact this car salesman dosser is running our club gives me absolutely zero confidence going into next season. Pushed Warnock out made Moore look an idiot barging in and taking the managers office. I’ve seen little to suggest he has any clue what’s a good player his record so far is abysmal and judged on warnocks comments last night on AB/ the way Cartwright acted through last season I feel for Michael Duff. Feel like he’s on a hiding to nothing.
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Jun 1, 2024 9:49:01 GMT 1
Reckon this next month decides his future. Had a mare last season and hasn’t been quick out of the traps this summer either. Nagle says the backing is there, if we don’t have several new signings through the door by the end of June the chances of a quick Championship return will start to reduce significantly.
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Post by royrace on Jun 1, 2024 13:42:04 GMT 1
The fact this car salesman dosser is running our club gives me absolutely zero confidence going into next season. Pushed Warnock out made Moore look an idiot barging in and taking the managers office. I’ve seen little to suggest he has any clue what’s a good player his record so far is abysmal and judged on warnocks comments last night on AB/ the way Cartwright acted through last season I feel for Michael Duff. Feel like he’s on a hiding to nothing. If we're lucky Duff will cover for his inadequacies. That's what I'm clinging to, if we're relying on Cartwright to shape the squad we're fkd. As long as Duff doesn't makes him look stupid I can imagine MC sitting back, letting Duff do his thing then claiming credit for any success that comes along. And of course blaming others for any failures. Seems to be how he rolls. |
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Post by runner76 on Jun 1, 2024 14:43:02 GMT 1
Who will be first out the door….Duff or Cartwright…..
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jun 1, 2024 14:48:21 GMT 1
“Hasn’t been quick out of the traps”. It’s June 1st. Pretty much a month before pre-season starts.
It’s as important to clear the squad for the best possible price at this stage as bring players in.
Some player signings will be contingent on certain players leaving - we’ll probably have a few different options for say Sorba’s replacement, depending on how much we might get for him.
People need to chill out and enjoy the summer.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 1, 2024 14:49:43 GMT 1
More a background Q really. When did this DoF role become a thing? Back in the day it was the Mgr, their coaches and some scouts (an army of scouts in the case of the big clubs).
Was this something else imported from abroad and taken up by the PL that’s filtered down?
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 1, 2024 14:50:50 GMT 1
Who will be first out the door….Duff or Cartwright….. I don’t know, but it doesn’t warrant a poll… 😉 |
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Jun 1, 2024 15:32:24 GMT 1
More a background Q really. When did this DoF role become a thing? Back in the day it was the Mgr, their coaches and some scouts (an army of scouts in the case of the big clubs). Was this something else imported from abroad and taken up by the PL that’s filtered down? Think the DOF football started on the continent, as they tend to have coaches rather than managers. When we started to bring foreign coaches into the UK they bought this system with them. Then like tippy tappy football once one club does it and has sucess the rest follow suit. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 1, 2024 15:36:30 GMT 1
Ta, I’d suspected it was an imported role.
The tippy tappy football does my head in really. Watched a fair bit of the England women v France last night & it’s endemic in that game as well. It’s more the fact they only know how to play this way, no ability to do something a bit left field.
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Post by rougeboy31 on Jun 1, 2024 16:46:21 GMT 1
Ta, I’d suspected it was an imported role. The tippy tappy football does my head in really. Watched a fair bit of the England women v France last night & it’s endemic in that game as well. It’s more the fact they only know how to play this way, no ability to do something a bit left field. Worst bit about it last night is how different the style was from how Chelsea and Man City play, considering the 3 of the back 4 and the keeper play for them two teams. It’s like these managers look at pep and think it works for him so it will work for us. It’s tedious and although it works at high levels, it becomes so boring and predictable. Town last season became so dull and passive that I can’t remember us scoring a single goal from outside the box. That has to change |
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 1, 2024 16:49:46 GMT 1
More a background Q really. When did this DoF role become a thing? Back in the day it was the Mgr, their coaches and some scouts (an army of scouts in the case of the big clubs). Was this something else imported from abroad and taken up by the PL that’s filtered down? I think it might have developed from the whole General Manager thing they used to have in the old days. |
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Post by detox on Jun 1, 2024 17:07:04 GMT 1
Wasn't it refreshing to see Warnock's tactics, and Worthington's to some degree. Fans much prefer that style, well I certainly do.
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Post by rougeboy31 on Jun 1, 2024 18:03:36 GMT 1
Wasn't it refreshing to see Warnock's tactics, and Worthington's to some degree. Fans much prefer that style, well I certainly do. Not necessarily the tactics, but definitely the mindset. I know it gets ridiculed but there’s not a single town manager in at least 10 years who would’ve even tried to score three against Southampton away. |
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Post by mrg on Jun 1, 2024 18:11:40 GMT 1
Who will be first out the door….Duff or Cartwright….. Cartwright this time. Hes employed 3 managers in a year that the club have been relegated and the new coach said; that wasn't the 2nd worst in the division. It was the second worst managed though. He can't survive a summer where we don't have what we want and need as a team this summer and not create a winning environment. He really needs to get a grip on most of what he says and does. To think, if he says the things he does in public whats he saying in private? |
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