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Post by irverino on Dec 14, 2023 12:01:43 GMT 1
Certainly a lot of unnecessary time & expense from the decision to sack NW has been wasted, who ever decided it was the right thing to do should follow DM out the door too......Surely wasn't Kevin Nagle, was it? I just think if I'd have been in charge of the football side of things and I knew Warnock had to go for whatever reason I would very strongly advise KN not to pull the trigger so early. It was always going to be extremely risky no matter who the new coach was. So if he hasn't received that warning then I think it's fair to say he's been very badly advised. If he did and chose to ignore it then it's all on him. And that's before we consider the new manager choice which obviously would have been delegated. I doubt the coaching team came cheap either so no budget restrictions seemingly. You think possibly self-inflicted.....In which case he can hardly complain about the extra time & money it takes to reverse the situation. |
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Post by royrace on Dec 14, 2023 12:10:16 GMT 1
I just think if I'd have been in charge of the football side of things and I knew Warnock had to go for whatever reason I would very strongly advise KN not to pull the trigger so early. It was always going to be extremely risky no matter who the new coach was. So if he hasn't received that warning then I think it's fair to say he's been very badly advised. If he did and chose to ignore it then it's all on him. And that's before we consider the new manager choice which obviously would have been delegated. I doubt the coaching team came cheap either so no budget restrictions seemingly. You think possibly self-inflicted.....In which case he can hardly complain about the extra time & money it takes to reverse the situation. He's said before he delegates everything do you'd think he'd listen to the two guys he pays to run it. You do wonder if ego and personality clashes have potentially clouded somebody's judgement. |
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Post by ram on Dec 14, 2023 12:10:48 GMT 1
If Darren Moore is aware of the email from KN and reads the comments on here.He should do the decent thing ,and walk. If no blame is attached to anyone,according to the email,I for one expect nowt to happen when Kevin "comes marching in!"
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Post by detox on Dec 14, 2023 12:18:27 GMT 1
Will he gather all the playing squad in one room, with no coaches or managers in and ask them for 'honest opinions' as to why it's not working. ?
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Post by Tinpot on Dec 14, 2023 12:19:05 GMT 1
I think that process of learning has duly begun. Nagle's message is eloquent. It is a warning to everyone at the club that it is time to step up. Players, coaches, executives. Everyone. It sounds like he's a man who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt, is polite and respectful, but doesn't take any shit. Certainly a lot of unnecessary time & expense from the decision to sack NW has been wasted, who ever decided it was the right thing to do should follow DM out the door too......Surely wasn't Kevin Nagle, was it? Mark Cartwright I expect. Even if we've written off Darren Moore's chances of succeeding here (and to be fair that's not an unreasonable position to take!), it's a bit harsh to sack him for one mistake. Not every appointment will succeed. If there was a perfect formula then everyone would use it. |
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Post by Dan on Dec 14, 2023 12:22:11 GMT 1
Certainly a lot of unnecessary time & expense from the decision to sack NW has been wasted, who ever decided it was the right thing to do should follow DM out the door too......Surely wasn't Kevin Nagle, was it? Mark Cartwright I expect. Even if we've written off Darren Moore's chances of succeeding here (and to be fair that's not an unreasonable position to!), it's a bit harsh to sack him for one mistake. Not every appointment will succeed. If there was a perfect formula then everyone would use it. There's probably more than one reason to bin Cartwright off. I've been wary of him from the start. Maynard a few weeks back: If you need a constructive comment, Kevin made a big mistake in appointing Mark Cartwright to an absolutely vital role within the new regime. Cartwright may have a decent reputation in the US but he was found out long ago in this country as a chancer who who deals mainly within his agent 'affiliations' shall we say. He is the root cause of this rapid decline on the football side of things. We needed a 'best in class' in this role, not unrealistic, instead we got a second hand car salesman with egg on his shirt. Kevin needs to be very careful about the advice he's getting from him. You may question what is constructive about this ...its obvious- we need a new Sporting Director ASAP before we even talk about Darren Moore (his no1 pick) |
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Post by Tinpot on Dec 14, 2023 12:24:04 GMT 1
This. I bloody love project players. Seeing someone we've brought for 3 packets of Monster Munch and a Curly Wurly make it at this level - even as a bit part player - is brilliant. But they're more likely to succeed if they have a framework of established players around them. Established players they can learn from. Established players who can cover for the mistakes they inevitably make as they're learning their craft. Established players who can take their place in the side as their form dips.We're not in a position where we have the wiggle room for mistakes. Which also means that we need players we can rely on NOW. So those players that need a few months dipping in and out aren't likely to get that opportunity in the midst of a relegation battle. Most of all, unless we make the right signings that can hit the ground running, the "project players" we sign in January will be learning their craft in Lg1 next season. And besides, we have a lot of projects on the go already. Exactly what we've forgot this last few years. Yep. Just thinking, if we had made sure we had that framework in place - maybe (arguably) the best of those projects would be fulfilling his potential here and not at Watf-inese. |
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Post by always a terrier on Dec 14, 2023 12:26:23 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell.
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Post by royrace on Dec 14, 2023 12:27:25 GMT 1
Mark Cartwright I expect. Even if we've written off Darren Moore's chances of succeeding here (and to be fair that's not an unreasonable position to!), it's a bit harsh to sack him for one mistake. Not every appointment will succeed. If there was a perfect formula then everyone would use it. There's probably more than one reason to bin Cartwright off. I've been wary of him from the start. Maynard a few weeks back: If you need a constructive comment, Kevin made a big mistake in appointing Mark Cartwright to an absolutely vital role within the new regime. Cartwright may have a decent reputation in the US but he was found out long ago in this country as a chancer who who deals mainly within his agent 'affiliations' shall we say. He is the root cause of this rapid decline on the football side of things. We needed a 'best in class' in this role, not unrealistic, instead we got a second hand car salesman with egg on his shirt. Kevin needs to be very careful about the advice he's getting from him. You may question what is constructive about this ...its obvious- we need a new Sporting Director ASAP before we even talk about Darren Moore (his no1 pick) Definitely not a fan then  That's a very harsh assessment from someone who is usually very measured! |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Dec 14, 2023 12:35:26 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Especially now we have a reputation as the worst footballing side in the division along side Rotherham. It's going to be a really tough sell. I have zero faith Cartwright will identify the right calibre of player anyway. |
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Post by irverino on Dec 14, 2023 12:35:48 GMT 1
Will he gather all the playing squad in one room, with no coaches or managers in and ask them for 'honest opinions' as to why it's not working. ? Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. |
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Post by benhomly on Dec 14, 2023 12:42:59 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Especially now we have a reputation as the worst footballing side in the division along side Rotherham. It's going to be a really tough sell. I have zero faith Cartwright will identify the right calibre of player anyway. So shall he just not bother then, give up and accept our fate? Might as well eh? |
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Post by paulmat on Dec 14, 2023 12:48:38 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Managed to get Emile Smith Rowe, Harry Toffolo, Chris Willock and Jonas Lossl in 4 years ago when in a relegation battle. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Dec 14, 2023 12:52:47 GMT 1
Especially now we have a reputation as the worst footballing side in the division along side Rotherham. It's going to be a really tough sell. I have zero faith Cartwright will identify the right calibre of player anyway. So shall he just not bother then, give up and accept our fate? Might as well eh? Not at all, but like I say, it's going to be a really tough sell. Going off the last window I don't think Cartwright is the man for the job either. Just my opinion. |
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Post by dezzly on Dec 14, 2023 12:54:01 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Managed to get Emile Smith Rowe, Harry Toffolo, Chris Willock and Jonas Lossl in 4 years ago when in a relegation battle. Also the leagues that tight that it’s not like cut adrift or anything.everyone would suggest boro are one of better teams in division and flying but they’re 2 wins above us points wise. I know we do look a long way off that but hopefully my point comes across |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 14, 2023 12:55:25 GMT 1
Will he gather all the playing squad in one room, with no coaches or managers in and ask them for 'honest opinions' as to why it's not working. ? Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. This is not a good move, its a great way to create divides between managers / players / owners, we need togetherness, this approach allows the players to be negative towards the mangement team. This is not DMs fault this is a conbination of many things. - The manager needs to take some blame - The ownership and new management team also need to take some blame - The players, can they really also say they are giving 100% - The fans, we need to back them more - NW yes you will all hate this but he has to take some blame him and RR sorted all the transfers in / out during the summer. - Previous owners (DH and PH) for sure parts of what has gone before has not helped our current position. We need to however not focus on blame, but focus on positive ways to improve in all areas many small improvements can gain big changes. Lets be positive, we have an owner coming over in January with some money to strenthen the squad, we are in a far far better postion than this time last season not even currently in the religation zone ? Last season 21 games we had 19points (-8GD) and 6 points from safety, now we are after 21 games on 21points (-15gd) but out of the bottom 3 with two teams below us 8 points behind, we had NW last season to save us who is going to pull off that job at both Sheff Weds and Rotherham actually an even bigger job as 2 points worse off, we are so close to the 4 teams above us with Stoke, Milwall, Plymouth all dropping down fast. The football is awful to watch, I fully agree but if we keep in and around where we are with the odd win and draw until January and then strenthen we have a great chance of staying in this league which is objective number one. |
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Post by prepare on Dec 14, 2023 12:55:58 GMT 1
You'd think KN already has a handle on the problems, surely he's speaking to his staff running the club on a regular basis?
He's not on the moon, so I'm surprised he's saying he's basically coming over to find out what is going on. Also, assuming he has a handle on things why can't he sort it via zoom or something.
Or is he saying he's coming just for the transfer window,to do what? It's all a bit Roy Rodgers riding into town tbh.. there's nothing here that he can't do from his desk in Sacramento...is there? I know he was coming anyway, and yes he's the owner and wants to see for himself but he could just as easily sack DM from the US . Presumably to see for himself rather than relying on what he’s told by Edwards and Cartwright. the stadium issue is as big a priority as the team and there working hard to solve it |
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Post by mosher on Dec 14, 2023 12:59:43 GMT 1
Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. This is not a good move, its a great way to create divides between managers / players / owners, we need togetherness, this approach allows the players to be negative towards the mangement team. This is not DMs fault this is a conbination of many things. - The manager needs to take some blame - The ownership and new management team also need to take some blame - The players, can they really also say they are giving 100% - The fans, we need to back them more - NW yes you will all hate this but he has to take some blame him and RR sorted all the transfers in / out during the summer. - Previous owners (DH and PH) for sure parts of what has gone before has not helped our current position. We need to however not focus on blame, but focus on positive ways to improve in all areas many small improvements can gain big changes. Lets be positive, we have an owner coming over in January with some money to strenthen the squad, we are in a far far better postion than this time last season not even currently in the religation zone ? Last season 21 games we had 19points (-8GD) and 6 points from safety, now we are after 21 games on 21points (-15gd) but out of the bottom 3 with two teams below us 8 points behind, we had NW last season to save us who is going to pull off that job at both Sheff Weds and Rotherham actually an even bigger job as 2 points worse off, we are so close to the 4 teams above us with Stoke, Milwall, Plymouth all dropping down fast. The football is awful to watch, I fully agree but if we keep in and around where we are with the odd win and draw until January and then strenthen we have a great chance of staying in this league which is objective number one. Not in the slightest. Our toxicity only comes from what we see on and off the pitch. Not an iota of blame falls on the fans. |
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Dec 14, 2023 13:00:20 GMT 1
Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. This is not a good move, its a great way to create divides between managers / players / owners, we need togetherness, this approach allows the players to be negative towards the mangement team. This is not DMs fault this is a conbination of many things. - The manager needs to take some blame - The ownership and new management team also need to take some blame - The players, can they really also say they are giving 100% - The fans, we need to back them more - NW yes you will all hate this but he has to take some blame him and RR sorted all the transfers in / out during the summer. - Previous owners (DH and PH) for sure parts of what has gone before has not helped our current position. We need to however not focus on blame, but focus on positive ways to improve in all areas many small improvements can gain big changes. Lets be positive, we have an owner coming over in January with some money to strenthen the squad, we are in a far far better postion than this time last season not even currently in the religation zone ? Last season 21 games we had 19points (-8GD) and 6 points from safety, now we are after 21 games on 21points (-15gd) but out of the bottom 3 with two teams below us 8 points behind, we had NW last season to save us who is going to pull off that job at both Sheff Weds and Rotherham actually an even bigger job as 2 points worse off, we are so close to the 4 teams above us with Stoke, Milwall, Plymouth all dropping down fast. The football is awful to watch, I fully agree but if we keep in and around where we are with the odd win and draw until January and then strenthen we have a great chance of staying in this league which is objective number one. We have very little chance with Darren’s dinosaur tactics and no fan is stupid enough to not see that now. |
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Post by mosher on Dec 14, 2023 13:01:03 GMT 1
Presumably to see for himself rather than relying on what he’s told by Edwards and Cartwright. the stadium issue is as big a priority as the team and there working hard to solve it I wouldn't say the stadium was AS BIG a priority as the team. But it definitely needs sorting. I personally think that's the MAIN reason KN is coming over and it's just happenstance it coincides with the window. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2023 13:04:03 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Managed to get Emile Smith Rowe, Harry Toffolo, Chris Willock and Jonas Lossl in 4 years ago when in a relegation battle. We were also fresh out of the EPL and with a further couple of years more parachute money to come on top. No comparison at all. |
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 14, 2023 13:08:14 GMT 1
Do we honestly want Moore spending whatever budget we might have? Do we know that Darren Moore will do a shit job in the transfer market? Can a leopard change it’s spots 🤔 |
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Post by detox on Dec 14, 2023 13:08:31 GMT 1
DM's win % as a manager -
WBA 48%
Doncaster 45%
Wendies 51%
Town 14%
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Post by htfcterry on Dec 14, 2023 13:12:47 GMT 1
Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. This is not a good move, its a great way to create divides between managers / players / owners, we need togetherness, this approach allows the players to be negative towards the mangement team. This is not DMs fault this is a conbination of many things. - The manager needs to take some blame - The ownership and new management team also need to take some blame - The players, can they really also say they are giving 100% - The fans, we need to back them more - NW yes you will all hate this but he has to take some blame him and RR sorted all the transfers in / out during the summer. - Previous owners (DH and PH) for sure parts of what has gone before has not helped our current position. We need to however not focus on blame, but focus on positive ways to improve in all areas many small improvements can gain big changes. Lets be positive, we have an owner coming over in January with some money to strenthen the squad, we are in a far far better postion than this time last season not even currently in the religation zone ? Last season 21 games we had 19points (-8GD) and 6 points from safety, now we are after 21 games on 21points (-15gd) but out of the bottom 3 with two teams below us 8 points behind, we had NW last season to save us who is going to pull off that job at both Sheff Weds and Rotherham actually an even bigger job as 2 points worse off, we are so close to the 4 teams above us with Stoke, Milwall, Plymouth all dropping down fast. The football is awful to watch, I fully agree but if we keep in and around where we are with the odd win and draw until January and then strenthen we have a great chance of staying in this league which is objective number one. 😂😂😂😂 |
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Post by samhudds on Dec 14, 2023 13:30:26 GMT 1
This whole 3 year budget, is it seasonal (ie starts a fresh in the summer), or will we actually have a war chest in January? If it’s the summer, do we actually believe anyone will arrive in January? Anyone know the answer to this? |
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Post by King Neil on Dec 14, 2023 13:31:40 GMT 1
A message to you..Kevin
Stop your messing around
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Post by royrace on Dec 14, 2023 13:33:14 GMT 1
This whole 3 year budget, is it seasonal (ie starts a fresh in the summer), or will we actually have a war chest in January? If it’s the summer, do we actually believe anyone will arrive in January? Anyone know the answer to this? Still not heard a plausible, concrete explanation for the lack of a budget in the summer. There budget is one of the reasons we're in this mess. |
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Post by aideybabes on Dec 14, 2023 13:46:52 GMT 1
It’s alright him saying he is here for the month of January. But what player worth his salt is going to want to come and join a relegation threatened team. It’s definitely going to be a tough sell. Depends how much brass you throw at them in wages and the transfer fee for the selling club. However as you say, relegation threatened and an offer no more than 50p and a dairy milk, we may struggle. |
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Post by ambryboy on Dec 14, 2023 13:51:32 GMT 1
I can’t help thinking this fan meltdown is a little premature. Don’t get me wrong relegation would be an absolute disaster, one i don’t see a short term fix from. However, there is a transfer window coming. It really could be one signing that gets us out of this and Kevin is clearly taking it very seriously. In the longer term i’m really excited about his vision for us. Maybe i’m naive and he’s full of shit but i don’t believe for a minute he’s got involved for us to shit. What be the fun/point in it for him? The primary cause of the "fan meltdown" is what we are watching, and expected to get behind, on the pitch. It is dire. There will always be questions about the running of the club but the fundamentals on the pitch aren't remotely close to being acceptable. I agree that he hasn't taken us on to be lousy but I think he is learning. The issue with the window is twofold: Is the manager capable of creating a winning formula? Can we attract significantly better players than we have (it is a low bar I know) now?If DM doesn't improve things in the immediate games the question about his suitability has to be answered. I don't think he has any leeway with the vast majority of fans. We need to be realistic and be prepared to take a tough decision. This is the main problem for me, would we really want to sign a player who would want to play for a team like Town in the position we are? A bit like Graucho Marx saying he wouldn't want to join a club that would have him as a member. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2023 13:54:30 GMT 1
Exactly what I would do & what KN should consider.....Regardless of him sacking DM or not. This is not a good move, its a great way to create divides between managers / players / owners, we need togetherness, this approach allows the players to be negative towards the mangement team. This is not DMs fault this is a conbination of many things. - The manager needs to take some blame - The ownership and new management team also need to take some blame - The players, can they really also say they are giving 100% - The fans, we need to back them more - NW yes you will all hate this but he has to take some blame him and RR sorted all the transfers in / out during the summer. - Previous owners (DH and PH) for sure parts of what has gone before has not helped our current position. We need to however not focus on blame, but focus on positive ways to improve in all areas many small improvements can gain big changes. Lets be positive, we have an owner coming over in January with some money to strenthen the squad, we are in a far far better postion than this time last season not even currently in the religation zone ? Last season 21 games we had 19points (-8GD) and 6 points from safety, now we are after 21 games on 21points (-15gd) but out of the bottom 3 with two teams below us 8 points behind, we had NW last season to save us who is going to pull off that job at both Sheff Weds and Rotherham actually an even bigger job as 2 points worse off, we are so close to the 4 teams above us with Stoke, Milwall, Plymouth all dropping down fast. The football is awful to watch, I fully agree but if we keep in and around where we are with the odd win and draw until January and then strenthen we have a great chance of staying in this league which is objective number one. I'm sorry are you justifying this seasons atrocius points return by comparing it to last season when we stayed up? We were stone wall relegation certs until NW completely turned it around when he came in, the points on the board were appalling beforehand. It was descirbed as a miracle that NW was able to turn it around from such a horrific points return in those fixtures. NW statisically the most successful manager in the history of the divison. Do you really think DM is capable of anywhere close to that? We are a laughing stock for chopping NW when there's no money to spend. We are even more of a laughing stock for hiring a manager that got relegated from this league 18 months prior and sets us up as if we're at anfield each game. We're away an a Millwall side in worse form than us but i expect nothing other that a hammering. Preston are in poor form but dominated us too. |
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