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Post by yappledapple on Jan 17, 2024 17:53:54 GMT 1
Anyone else follow Dave Carmichael on Twitter (X)?
I’ve just added him to keep abreast of any Town stuff he tweets, and my Twitter timeline has gone mental with number of tweets he posts!
I’ve learnt more about the Sac Kings this past 36 hours than at any time in my life 😉 Oh, and he can’t make pizza either!
I’m not sure if his job is media related; his bio does say he’s a radio guy, but he’s sure prolific on the X platform…
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 17, 2024 18:10:22 GMT 1
Anyone else follow Dave Carmichael on Twitter (X)? I’ve just added him to keep abreast of any Town stuff he tweets, and my Twitter timeline has gone mental with number of tweets he posts! I’ve learnt more about the Sac Kings this past 36 hours than at any time in my life 😉 Oh, and he can’t make pizza either! I’m not sure if his job is media related; his bio does say he’s a radio guy, but he’s sure prolific on the X platform… Hes even got you talking like an American!
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 17, 2024 18:16:03 GMT 1
There were also many positive signs in his first season even though performances tailed off. Hence the patience from a lot of fans. Very different situation to this one imo. The main reason he received barely any criticism was because the whole season was played without crowds. Lots of criticism on here and calls for him to be sacked..I was one of them doing it. The results and performances were dreadful 2nd half of the season and 18 points from the last 24 games said it all. he was lucky there were no crowds or it would have been pretty toxic.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jan 17, 2024 18:20:58 GMT 1
The main reason he received barely any criticism was because the whole season was played without crowds. Lots of criticism on here and calls for him to be sacked..I was one of them doing it. The results and performances were dreadful 2nd half of the season and 18 points from the last 24 games said it all. he was lucky there were no crowds or it would have been pretty toxic. I wanted him gone up until November of the season we got to the pay offs under him. Then it suddenly seemed to click.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 17, 2024 18:25:42 GMT 1
The main reason he received barely any criticism was because the whole season was played without crowds. Lots of criticism on here and calls for him to be sacked..I was one of them doing it. The results and performances were dreadful 2nd half of the season and 18 points from the last 24 games said it all. he was lucky there were no crowds or it would have been pretty toxic. I quite liked him because earlier in the season we could see what he was about, but by the end of the season I thought that he had not done enough to keep his position. As it turned out we were wrong. I am now asking for DM to go, I could be wrong again, but I don't think so as he has not shown a sign of knowing anything at all.
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 17, 2024 18:29:48 GMT 1
Anyone else follow Dave Carmichael on Twitter (X)? I’ve just added him to keep abreast of any Town stuff he tweets, and my Twitter timeline has gone mental with number of tweets he posts! I’ve learnt more about the Sac Kings this past 36 hours than at any time in my life 😉 Oh, and he can’t make pizza either! I’m not sure if his job is media related; his bio does say he’s a radio guy, but he’s sure prolific on the X platform… I keep seeing tweets from him about armoured rugby
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Post by andyeastleake on Jan 17, 2024 19:18:56 GMT 1
DATM is perhaps an arguably small section % wise, but I can't really see any reason why it wouldn't be representative (only barrier I can see is use of a computer, which TBH isn't really much of a barrier any more). A sample size of 340 is generally considered adequate, and when the sample is saying 90% plus he should go, I think you're clutching at straws to suggest there isn't strong evidence to suggest the majority of the fanbase have had enough of him. Its not a sample size of 340 though. Its 340 people who have expressed an opinion on a thread that has had 34,000+ views. At the matches there's barely any Moore out sentiment being vocalised. Picking up your second point first, I think it has become generally accepted that booing at a game can affect team performance. Given those who feel the club are (almost) beyond criticism have been most vocal on that point, I don't see how the lack of booing can be used to suggest there is no disquiet with the manager. You can't have it both ways (IMHO). Would you prefer those who want a change of manager to make that clear at the Mac? On the first point, clearly any sub-section of a population (or sample) may not fully represent the whole population (Picking 10 cards at random from a pack may result in all Hearts). However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. The other point on sub-sections of population are that as the size of the sub-section increases the liklihood of it being unrepresentative reduces. Getting a 90% outcome from a sub-section with no justified perceived bias of 340 from a population that was 50:50 seems unlikely (someone who studied statistics more recently than me (& who had more time) would be able to give you a probability). I strongly doubt it would be anything but low hence the "clutching at straws comment". If that view is incorrect enlighten me (but please show your workings).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 19:34:17 GMT 1
Its not a sample size of 340 though. Its 340 people who have expressed an opinion on a thread that has had 34,000+ views. At the matches there's barely any Moore out sentiment being vocalised. Picking up your second point first, I think it has become generally accepted that booing at a game can affect team performance. Given those who feel the club are (almost) beyond criticism have been most vocal on that point, I don't see how the lack of booing can be used to suggest there is no disquiet with the manager. You can't have it both ways (IMHO). Would you prefer those who want a change of manager to make that clear at the Mac? On the first point, clearly any sub-section of a population (or sample) may not fully represent the whole population (Picking 10 cards at random from a pack may result in all Hearts). However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. The other point on sub-sections of population are that as the size of the sub-section increases the liklihood of it being unrepresentative reduces. Getting a 90% outcome from a sub-section with no justified perceived bias of 340 from a population that was 50:50 seems unlikely (someone who studied statistics more recently than me (& who had more time) would be able to give you a probability). I strongly doubt it would be anything but low hence the "clutching at straws comment". If that view is incorrect enlighten me (but please show your workings). Because it's probably* a pretty narrow demographic - almost entirely male, fairly narrow age-range. It might reflect trends in the demographic of people who watch football, but it also (IMHO) exaggerates it significantly. It's probably also long-standing / "die-hard' supporters, rather than say the 1000's extra who started coming to the JSS when we were in the Prem. I'm not making any sort of judgement btw; it's just a flawed argument to suggest it's truly representative of the fanbase. *I can't prove this; nobody can. Proboards don't collect that data. But I'd be willing to bet at least three Freddos that I'm right.
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 17, 2024 19:44:23 GMT 1
Its not a sample size of 340 though. Its 340 people who have expressed an opinion on a thread that has had 34,000+ views. At the matches there's barely any Moore out sentiment being vocalised. Picking up your second point first, I think it has become generally accepted that booing at a game can affect team performance. Given those who feel the club are (almost) beyond criticism have been most vocal on that point, I don't see how the lack of booing can be used to suggest there is no disquiet with the manager. You can't have it both ways (IMHO). Would you prefer those who want a change of manager to make that clear at the Mac? On the first point, clearly any sub-section of a population (or sample) may not fully represent the whole population (Picking 10 cards at random from a pack may result in all Hearts). However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. The other point on sub-sections of population are that as the size of the sub-section increases the liklihood of it being unrepresentative reduces. Getting a 90% outcome from a sub-section with no justified perceived bias of 340 from a population that was 50:50 seems unlikely (someone who studied statistics more recently than me (& who had more time) would be able to give you a probability). I strongly doubt it would be anything but low hence the "clutching at straws comment". If that view is incorrect enlighten me (but please show your workings). Don't know about that, I hear LOTS of booing directed at the players. And yes, I WOULD prefer those unhappy to vocalise it at a match, it may accelerate what is surely the inevitable. I do think DATM is representative, but I don't think poll outcomes are representative - given so few people respond to them, and those with a hard negative opinion are more likely to respond, AND they're worded in a way which influences the outcome. Is Darren Moore the right manager for Hudds Town? My PERSONAL answer to that question is "probably not". But that doesn't mean I necessarily think he should immediately be sacked now, or back in mid December when I clicked "No", and in fact my opinion is that I don't think he should lose his job as things stand today, given the state of the squad that he's had available to him...and actually my opinion is that he should be less likely to lose his job today than he was 4 games ago, there have been some good signs on the pitch that he's getting something positive out of the turd he's been dealt. Giving credence to poll responses is the kind of thing that eventually led to posters like NickHudd being banned, who annoyed a small percentage of posters, but they happened to be very vocal. Its akin to listening to the Just Stop Oil protestors and going, "yeah you're right...nobody is offering a counter, therefore lets immediately implement everything you're suggesting".
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 17, 2024 20:24:00 GMT 1
Picking up your second point first, I think it has become generally accepted that booing at a game can affect team performance. Given those who feel the club are (almost) beyond criticism have been most vocal on that point, I don't see how the lack of booing can be used to suggest there is no disquiet with the manager. You can't have it both ways (IMHO). Would you prefer those who want a change of manager to make that clear at the Mac? On the first point, clearly any sub-section of a population (or sample) may not fully represent the whole population (Picking 10 cards at random from a pack may result in all Hearts). However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. The other point on sub-sections of population are that as the size of the sub-section increases the liklihood of it being unrepresentative reduces. Getting a 90% outcome from a sub-section with no justified perceived bias of 340 from a population that was 50:50 seems unlikely (someone who studied statistics more recently than me (& who had more time) would be able to give you a probability). I strongly doubt it would be anything but low hence the "clutching at straws comment". If that view is incorrect enlighten me (but please show your workings). Don't know about that, I hear LOTS of booing directed at the players. And yes, I WOULD prefer those unhappy to vocalise it at a match, it may accelerate what is surely the inevitable. I do think DATM is representative, but I don't think poll outcomes are representative - given so few people respond to them, and those with a hard negative opinion are more likely to respond, AND they're worded in a way which influences the outcome. Is Darren Moore the right manager for Hudds Town? My PERSONAL answer to that question is "probably not". But that doesn't mean I necessarily think he should immediately be sacked now, or back in mid December when I clicked "No", and in fact my opinion is that I don't think he should lose his job as things stand today, given the state of the squad that he's had available to him...and actually my opinion is that he should be less likely to lose his job today than he was 4 games ago, there have been some good signs on the pitch that he's getting something positive out of the turd he's been dealt. Giving credence to poll responses is the kind of thing that eventually led to posters like NickHudd being banned, who annoyed a small percentage of posters, but they happened to be very vocal. Its akin to listening to the Just Stop Oil protestors and going, "yeah you're right...nobody is offering a counter, therefore lets immediately implement everything you're suggesting". Are You suggesting that no one is offering a counter to "Just Stop Oil"?
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Post by andyeastleake on Jan 17, 2024 20:48:40 GMT 1
However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. Because it's probably* a pretty narrow demographic - almost entirely male, fairly narrow age-range. It might reflect trends in the demographic of people who watch football, but it also (IMHO) exaggerates it significantly. It's probably also long-standing / "die-hard' supporters, rather than say the 1000's extra who started coming to the JSS when we were in the Prem. I'm not making any sort of judgement btw; it's just a flawed argument to suggest it's truly representative of the fanbase.*I can't prove this; nobody can. Proboards don't collect that data. But I'd be willing to bet at least three Freddos that I'm right. Good response (the majority of which I wouldn't particularly disagree with), however you've highlighted an oversight from my post. That is, that part of the reason I'm debating this point so much is in reaction to a poster who said in as few words "DATM is not representative of the fanbase" (my highlight). Whilst I agree I can't state categorically it is (& TBF I didn't), I certainly don't see how anybody could say it isn't either. Further on balance I'd suggest there are many more reasons to think it probably is rather than it isn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 21:26:46 GMT 1
Because it's probably* a pretty narrow demographic - almost entirely male, fairly narrow age-range. It might reflect trends in the demographic of people who watch football, but it also (IMHO) exaggerates it significantly. It's probably also long-standing / "die-hard' supporters, rather than say the 1000's extra who started coming to the JSS when we were in the Prem. I'm not making any sort of judgement btw; it's just a flawed argument to suggest it's truly representative of the fanbase.*I can't prove this; nobody can. Proboards don't collect that data. But I'd be willing to bet at least three Freddos that I'm right. Good response (the majority of which I wouldn't particularly disagree with), however you've highlighted an oversight from my post. That is, that part of the reason I'm debating this point so much is in reaction to a poster who said in as few words "DATM is not representative of the fanbase" (my highlight). Whilst I agree I can't state categorically it is (& TBF I didn't), I certainly don't see how anybody could say it isn't either. Further on balance I'd suggest there are many more reasons to think it probably is rather than it isn't. You've got me on my wording too, Andy! I should've said something like it would be a flawed argument. We're completely on the same page, though; it'd be incorrect to say that it's not representative of the fanbase, but it'll only ever represent a proportion of it. DATM's format (based on early-Internet Bulletin Boards) is fast becoming a bit of a relic, for better or for worse. Having said that, the Town Discord (a slightly more modern riff on the format) is like a ghost town - so who knows where it's all heading. I'm too curmudgeonly for Tik Tok, and Twitter could go either way.
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 17, 2024 21:34:16 GMT 1
Don't know about that, I hear LOTS of booing directed at the players. And yes, I WOULD prefer those unhappy to vocalise it at a match, it may accelerate what is surely the inevitable. I do think DATM is representative, but I don't think poll outcomes are representative - given so few people respond to them, and those with a hard negative opinion are more likely to respond, AND they're worded in a way which influences the outcome. Is Darren Moore the right manager for Hudds Town? My PERSONAL answer to that question is "probably not". But that doesn't mean I necessarily think he should immediately be sacked now, or back in mid December when I clicked "No", and in fact my opinion is that I don't think he should lose his job as things stand today, given the state of the squad that he's had available to him...and actually my opinion is that he should be less likely to lose his job today than he was 4 games ago, there have been some good signs on the pitch that he's getting something positive out of the turd he's been dealt. Giving credence to poll responses is the kind of thing that eventually led to posters like NickHudd being banned, who annoyed a small percentage of posters, but they happened to be very vocal. Its akin to listening to the Just Stop Oil protestors and going, "yeah you're right...nobody is offering a counter, therefore lets immediately implement everything you're suggesting". Are You suggesting that no one is offering a counter to "Just Stop Oil"? No, I'm suggesting they're a miniscule tiny minority whose rumblings get a lot of air time.
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jan 17, 2024 22:15:19 GMT 1
Picking up your second point first, I think it has become generally accepted that booing at a game can affect team performance. Given those who feel the club are (almost) beyond criticism have been most vocal on that point, I don't see how the lack of booing can be used to suggest there is no disquiet with the manager. You can't have it both ways (IMHO). Would you prefer those who want a change of manager to make that clear at the Mac? On the first point, clearly any sub-section of a population (or sample) may not fully represent the whole population (Picking 10 cards at random from a pack may result in all Hearts). However, I don't see any real reason why DATM shouldn't be considered representative of the fanbase (& I've asked & no-one has suggested one). Nor can I see any real reason why a vote on DATM wouldn't be representative of DATM as whole (& hence following the logic) the whole fanbase. I you think there is enlighten me. Every day is a school day. The other point on sub-sections of population are that as the size of the sub-section increases the liklihood of it being unrepresentative reduces. Getting a 90% outcome from a sub-section with no justified perceived bias of 340 from a population that was 50:50 seems unlikely (someone who studied statistics more recently than me (& who had more time) would be able to give you a probability). I strongly doubt it would be anything but low hence the "clutching at straws comment". If that view is incorrect enlighten me (but please show your workings). Because it's probably* a pretty narrow demographic - almost entirely male, fairly narrow age-range. It might reflect trends in the demographic of people who watch football, but it also (IMHO) exaggerates it significantly. It's probably also long-standing / "die-hard' supporters, rather than say the 1000's extra who started coming to the JSS when we were in the Prem. I'm not making any sort of judgement btw; it's just a flawed argument to suggest it's truly representative of the fanbase. *I can't prove this; nobody can. Proboards don't collect that data. But I'd be willing to bet at least three Freddos that I'm right. Three Freddo’s? Who can afford THAT kind of money?!
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jan 17, 2024 23:16:57 GMT 1
Aside of this thread being about Kev’s pal, I think/hope that many would agree that missing Burgzorg is a huge miss to us playing on the front foot. A real shame that Blackburn lad didn’t suffer anything more than a yellow. It would be poetic justice if DB were fit for the game on Sat and he scored the winner from a pen after that lad chopped him down again… Wonder if Hogg will do a ‘Harry Arter’ on him.
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Post by twyford on Jan 17, 2024 23:35:21 GMT 1
Because it's probably* a pretty narrow demographic - almost entirely male, fairly narrow age-range. It might reflect trends in the demographic of people who watch football, but it also (IMHO) exaggerates it significantly. It's probably also long-standing / "die-hard' supporters, rather than say the 1000's extra who started coming to the JSS when we were in the Prem. I'm not making any sort of judgement btw; it's just a flawed argument to suggest it's truly representative of the fanbase. *I can't prove this; nobody can. Proboards don't collect that data. But I'd be willing to bet at least three Freddos that I'm right. Three Freddo’s? Who can afford THAT kind of money?! There is a gender tick box when creating an account. The data may will be affected by people selecting the 'prefer not to say' option but my expectation would be that the proportion of females on this board will be lower than the proportion of females in our crowds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 23:52:24 GMT 1
Three Freddo’s? Who can afford THAT kind of money?! There is a gender tick box when creating an account. The data may will be affected by people selecting the 'prefer not to say' option but my expectation would be that the proportion of females on this board will be lower than the proportion of females in our crowds. I was thinking more of active posters / contributors than registered members, but yes - virtually no women active on here, I'd wager. A quick glance at any thread about Womens' football - or more recently, the one about a potential new physio - ought to go some way to explaining why that might be the case.
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Post by Uddersfield on Jan 17, 2024 23:58:49 GMT 1
Anyone else follow Dave Carmichael on Twitter (X)? I’ve just added him to keep abreast of any Town stuff he tweets, and my Twitter timeline has gone mental with number of tweets he posts! I’ve learnt more about the Sac Kings this past 36 hours than at any time in my life 😉 Oh, and he can’t make pizza either! I’m not sure if his job is media related; his bio does say he’s a radio guy, but he’s sure prolific on the X platform… Followed him for the same reason then unfollowed within 24hrs.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 18, 2024 10:21:08 GMT 1
Lots of criticism on here and calls for him to be sacked..I was one of them doing it. The results and performances were dreadful 2nd half of the season and 18 points from the last 24 games said it all. he was lucky there were no crowds or it would have been pretty toxic. I quite liked him because earlier in the season we could see what he was about, but by the end of the season I thought that he had not done enough to keep his position. As it turned out we were wrong. I am now asking for DM to go, I could be wrong again, but I don't think so as he has not shown a sign of knowing anything at all. When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what?
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Post by royrace on Jan 18, 2024 10:26:47 GMT 1
I quite liked him because earlier in the season we could see what he was about, but by the end of the season I thought that he had not done enough to keep his position. As it turned out we were wrong. I am now asking for DM to go, I could be wrong again, but I don't think so as he has not shown a sign of knowing anything at all. When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? It won't be the same with Moore, I'd put my house on it. Let's not pretend Moore has shown any of the positives that Corberan did before that poor run. The two are like chalk and cheese, there are no parallels or straws to grasp.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 18, 2024 11:28:34 GMT 1
When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? It won't be the same with Moore, I'd put my house on it. Let's not pretend Moore has shown any of the positives that Corberan did before that poor run.The two are like chalk and cheese, there are no parallels or straws to grasp. No one is..because he hasnt been able to with the bare bones squad hes been working with...thats the point. The chalk and cheese bit is that Corboran could first half of that season..the parallel is that both Moore and corboran struggled badly when they had to contend with so many injuries. Before that poor run ( or woeful run to describe it properly) corboran was doing 'ok' ( it wasnt brilliant ) helped no end by the form of Koroma, who out of nowhere suddenly looked like one of the best players in the division. But he had no track record to speak of as a manager at that point.... he was also absolutely terrible in interviews because of his poor English and having zero personality to speak of. At least Moore has a good managerial history behind him at 3 clubs...the reason why Nagle appointed him. All Moores shown so far is he struggles when hes faced with a lot of injuries in an already weak squad...EXACTLY what corboran showed in that first season. Maybe, like corboran, he'll also show that when he doesnt have a weak squad and loads of injuries, hell be able to get the team consistently winning?
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jan 18, 2024 12:03:14 GMT 1
It won't be the same with Moore, I'd put my house on it. Let's not pretend Moore has shown any of the positives that Corberan did before that poor run.The two are like chalk and cheese, there are no parallels or straws to grasp. No one is..because he hasnt been able to with the bare bones squad hes been working with...thats the point. The chalk and cheese bit is that Corboran could first half of that season..the parallel is that both Moore and corboran struggled badly when they had to contend with so many injuries. Before that poor run ( or woeful run to describe it properly) corboran was doing 'ok' ( it wasnt brilliant ) helped no end by the form of Koroma, who out of nowhere suddenly looked like one of the best players in the division. But he had no track record to speak of as a manager at that point.... he was also absolutely terrible in interviews because of his poor English and having zero personality to speak of. At least Moore has a good managerial history behind him at 3 clubs...the reason why Nagle appointed him. All Moores shown so far is he struggles when hes faced with a lot of injuries in an already weak squad...EXACTLY what corboran showed in that first season. Maybe, like corboran, he'll also show that when he doesnt have a weak squad and loads of injuries, hell be able to get the team consistently winning?I hope so but doubt it. I base my doubts on his in game management. Some of his substitutions are baffling in the extreme.
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Post by dugnet on Jan 18, 2024 12:13:49 GMT 1
Reading the debate on Moore here sees two sides with relative merit.
He has had injuries and a weak squad, that is undeniable. On the reverse he has shown little innovation in trying to find a way to win games of football. Moreover you could argue he has been too willing to try and "shut up shop" and failed to do that.
Saturday was a case in point. In the 2nd half it was clear that Plymouth set up for a point. He could have tried something different but keep the same shape and approach (Steven Chicken has written an excellent analysis on "We Are Terriers"), that opens him to question and criticism.
As I posted elsewhere I am viewing things game to game. I have absolutely no problem if he starts to show himself to be capable, his demeanour and eloquence is the least of my concerns. However he cannot be shocked if he cannot get the team winning that he continues to be under pressure. The other problem he has is that games are being used up and every game where we don't take 3 points (draws aren't good enough right now) is an opportunity squandered. It is also a step closer to relegation, that is the inevitability if things don't improve.
There are lots of reasons and mitigation for this situation but the fact is this is where we are right now and we NEED TO WIN GAMES OF FOOTBALL.
There are some suggesting that irrespective of the outcome this season Moore will remain. Obviously if we pick up form and survive he earns that right, although some may remain unconvinced. If we are relegated and the mitigation (excuses) are rolled out I am pretty sure that wouldn't wash for many. It then becomes a credibility/capability question for Mr Nagle and team.
Short term - we need to win games of football, however we can to stay in the Championship.
Longer term - what is our identity and plan for the football side going forward? Was DM selected to fit into that identity? Is that aim/plan still the same or has anything changed or something been identified as requiring a change?
The situation is much more nuanced and detailed than we debate. That is ignored because of our immediate form and need for points. The bigger picture is however important. We cannot scrape another survival and merely hope that things will be better next season. I very much and genuinely welcome all the positive energy and communication that Mr Nagle has brought so far this month. It was needed, to be honest as I posted before we could have benefited from this 6 months ago, but he needs to aligned to the long term aims and plan.
But as we all know it is about winning, or at least looking like we can win. That needs to start on Saturday for me, and be carried into the following 2 games and to the end of the season.
Over to you DM - because it is down to you. I genuinely wish you all the best.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,464
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Post by goodbet on Jan 18, 2024 12:25:14 GMT 1
I quite liked him because earlier in the season we could see what he was about, but by the end of the season I thought that he had not done enough to keep his position. As it turned out we were wrong. I am now asking for DM to go, I could be wrong again, but I don't think so as he has not shown a sign of knowing anything at all. When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? He just appears clueless. He plays players out of position when there is no need. Players can have good(relatively for this season) games and are dropped to the bench the next game. The use of substitutes seems an anathema to him, when he does use them it is often too late to change the game. He replaces players to some predetermined pattern no matter what is happening on the field. He is trying to bore us all to death. Tactics appear to be get players between the ball and our goal line, no shape or formation. We were told all of the above by Wednesday fans and nothing has changed. He comes to press conferences and does not prepare beforehand. when they ask him about injuries he says he will check. Apparently he has no idea if players will be fit for Saturday on Thursday afternoon. Part of any managers position is communication, in this instance to the players and to the world at large and based on what we have seen it is not one of his strengths. What is there to like? As each game passes we are making life more difficult for the person that will have to save us later on.
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Jan 18, 2024 12:58:52 GMT 1
I quite liked him because earlier in the season we could see what he was about, but by the end of the season I thought that he had not done enough to keep his position. As it turned out we were wrong. I am now asking for DM to go, I could be wrong again, but I don't think so as he has not shown a sign of knowing anything at all. When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? Just to pick up on the shit at interviews bit. That side of the job is becoming more and more important, especially to younger fans who have access to the media stuff at their finger tips. Look at the top managers eg pep, klopp etc. They are comfortable in front of the camera. On a side note and to give Moore a little credit, it must be difficult to follow Warnock who has always had the media in the palm of his hand when Moore has very little charisma.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,464
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Post by goodbet on Jan 18, 2024 13:01:31 GMT 1
When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? Just to pick up on the shit at interviews bit. That side of the job is becoming more and more important, especially to younger fans who have access to the media stuff at their finger tips. Look at the top managers eg pep, klopp etc. They are comfortable in front of the camera. On a side note and to give Moore a little credit, it must be difficult to follow Warnock who has always had the media in the palm of his hand when he has very little charisma. He is certainly showing us all how difficult it is to follow a manager who knows what he was doing.
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Post by royrace on Jan 18, 2024 13:35:36 GMT 1
It won't be the same with Moore, I'd put my house on it. Let's not pretend Moore has shown any of the positives that Corberan did before that poor run.The two are like chalk and cheese, there are no parallels or straws to grasp. No one is..because he hasnt been able to with the bare bones squad hes been working with...thats the point.The chalk and cheese bit is that Corboran could first half of that season..the parallel is that both Moore and corboran struggled badly when they had to contend with so many injuries. Before that poor run ( or woeful run to describe it properly) corboran was doing 'ok' ( it wasnt brilliant ) helped no end by the form of Koroma, who out of nowhere suddenly looked like one of the best players in the division. But he had no track record to speak of as a manager at that point.... he was also absolutely terrible in interviews because of his poor English and having zero personality to speak of. At least Moore has a good managerial history behind him at 3 clubs...the reason why Nagle appointed him. All Moores shown so far is he struggles when hes faced with a lot of injuries in an already weak squad...EXACTLY what corboran showed in that first season. Maybe, like corboran, he'll also show that when he doesnt have a weak squad and loads of injuries, hell be able to get the team consistently winning? But I'm looking for the tiniest little chink of positivity, anything really, and there isn't a single sign (except perhaps he has got Sorba trying harder)....that's the point. Moores record IMO gives him less credibility than Corberan because he has already proved he's very average as a coach and highly unlikely to over achieve, we also have references from previous fans confirm what we see with our own eyes regarding tactics, style, game management etc. I'm not interested in his win %age because that's irrelevant without context. At least with Corberan there was potential and glowing reports of him as a B team coach, plus superb team goals and passages of play before the injuries. I also found Corberan's interviews difficult to listen to but for a completely different reason to Moore's. Corberan spoke at 100mph, no mean feat in a foreign language and he was full of detail and stuff that actually made you suspect he was probably very bright and innovative as a coach. You say Corberan had no personality to speak of but he had an intensity and intelligence about him which obviously got the players on side. If DM speaks to them as he does in interviews then you can pretty much guarantee they wont be referring to him as 'the professor', as they did Corberan.
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Post by space hardware on Jan 18, 2024 14:07:58 GMT 1
Scratch beneath the surface and Moore's record is nothing to write home about.
We needed someone to turn water into wine, like Warnock did at the end of last season.
What we've got is Moore turning water into stale old piss.
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irverino
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,650
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Post by irverino on Jan 18, 2024 14:54:49 GMT 1
Anyone else follow Dave Carmichael on Twitter (X)? I’ve just added him to keep abreast of any Town stuff he tweets, and my Twitter timeline has gone mental with number of tweets he posts! I’ve learnt more about the Sac Kings this past 36 hours than at any time in my life 😉 Oh, and he can’t make pizza either! I’m not sure if his job is media related; his bio does say he’s a radio guy, but he’s sure prolific on the X platform… Thiers a link on his X profile to SacTown Sports.com where you can listen/watch 'The Carmichael Dave Show' which he hosts (along with Jason Ross) daily from 6am-10am (2pm-6pm UK)......Watched the 1st hour of the show after his jollies & a few stories of his time in the UK.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 18, 2024 15:45:54 GMT 1
When we had quite a few injuries second half of that 20/21 season corboran didnt cope well at all...thus the 18 points from 24 games. Moores not coped well with a lot of injuries in the same way. He hasnt been able to play how he wants to play. I think its unfair and potentially a mistake to judge him at this stage when the squad hes had available has been so flimsy, having to firefight constantly ...like it would have been a mistake to judge Corboran from that time he couldn't cope with a flimsy squad. When we gave Corboran a fuller, better squad we ( almost) reaped the benefits of sticking with him....it could we'll be the same with Moore IMO. What I dont get is all the personal attacks and ridiculous over-exaggerated comments about him. Dont know why people feel they have to do either. So hes shit in interviews? So what? Just to pick up on the shit at interviews bit. That side of the job is becoming more and more important, especially to younger fans who have access to the media stuff at their finger tips. Look at the top managers eg pep, klopp etc. They are comfortable in front of the camera. On a side note and to give Moore a little credit, it must be difficult to follow Warnock who has always had the media in the palm of his hand when Moore has very little charisma. When they win, as they usually do! When the result goes against them they both turn into tantruming babies and are pretty embarrassing. Dont look comfortable with the interview at all. Is it really important? Does it actually matter? The players all seem to be giving their all for Moore so if nothing else he seems to have a good relationship with them, and thats something that definitely does matter. Agree though, warnock was ridiculously confident in interviews, knew exactly how to spin a line to work in his favour and have everyone in the palm of his hand. Not many even come close to him in that respect .
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