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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Feb 13, 2024 14:41:50 GMT 1
The quality of the managerial appointment will dictate everything. The hierarchy aren't just selling the vision to a new manager they are selling it to 16k season ticket holders as well. This is it exactly! No need to read through pages of this that and the other. We make a statement appointment following the January spend and the fans will buy into it. On the other hand we go for Moore mark 2 and we know the rest. Over to you Kevin and co.
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Post by mosher on Feb 13, 2024 14:42:52 GMT 1
I've just been watching Sunderland till I die. Some parts mirror us, they really didn't put up with it. They didn't. We did though and still continue to do so. This season has been a complete shitshow yet no-one seems bothered anymore. Maybe apathy has well and truly set in.I think so too. And I think the apathy was hastened by our (the club AND fans) attitude to the PL. The "just happy to be there" rhetoric meant SOME fans seem to not care if we fall through the divisions again because we "had a hell of a ride". Yes we did, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope and strive for more success and not just be happy (AT BEST) treading water in the division.
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on Feb 13, 2024 14:43:00 GMT 1
Ticket prices should go back to different prices for different areas of the ground I think. Seems wild that you pay the same to sit in the middle of the riverside upper tier as you would for being in the bottom corner of the kilner for example. No need to overcomplicate it, maybe 3 different price bands.
You could keep certain areas of the ground at £250-£270 and then slightly more for central areas etc...
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Feb 13, 2024 14:43:51 GMT 1
If it was, using your example, a 30% increase to have a genuine promotion contending budget then I think that would get the vote - unfortunately we're around £20m a year short of a genuine promotion contending budget and a 30% increase in ticket prices won't facilitate that!
If an increase means 'some funds' are made available then its a harder sell. Would, for example, people pay an extra £100 if it meant we could sign a couple more Rhys Healeys ?
I use him as example as we've paid over £1m for him recently.
I think ambition is more important than straight budget. There's a difference. As alluded to above, the choice of manager will tell people alot about how ambitious we are.
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 13, 2024 14:43:56 GMT 1
Your final paragraph is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. I'm a lot younger than you, but I've had a similar disconnect from it apart from the brief period of Warnock's reign, which felt like a throwback to the good old days. I've missed home games this season to attend gigs and that's something I'd have never done a few years ago. It's been a depressing few years and if the prices get hiked too much, then I think I'll be attending a lot more gigs on a Saturday. Interesting that you both don't mind paying the exorbitant ticket prices for gigs but object to a rise in the season ticket prices. I guess it depends who you're watching but the prices seem utterly ridiculous these days. I suspect you could very easily spend the whole of the price of a season ticket in one night if you went with the other half. I think a sensible rise is fair enough IF we're still in this league and IF we continue to invest in the playing squad and coaching team. I'm with you on the waning interest though, this season under Moore with the daft decisions being made was enough to put me off attending and getting a ticket next year. There's a simple answer. I enjoy the gigs I go to.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Feb 13, 2024 14:44:56 GMT 1
All that happens if we go back to 'normal' pricing is we return to 12/13k gates. We'll be returning to them anyway unless we finally arrest the constant relegation battles and 10 wins a season. An increase is probably ok and due but don't take the piss and expect everyone to just crack on as they have been. but 12 / 13 k season ticket holders at a higher price and then a significant amount of tickets sold per game at a higher price would be much more benifit for the club, the ambition is to be top half next season if we are winning games the stadium will be around 20k most weeks, with the people not getting a season ticket due to the cost ending up paying more to see less games as they would buy tickets to watch a succesful club. This is correct, it is (as long as you are confident that the team/results will draw people in) the best way to maximise revenues from tickets.... But the season ticket sales give you a known income which you can offset and spend against, which walk ins don't. Again it needs to be considered and balanced.
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Post by mosher on Feb 13, 2024 14:45:47 GMT 1
Interesting that you both don't mind paying the exorbitant ticket prices for gigs but object to a rise in the season ticket prices. I guess it depends who you're watching but the prices seem utterly ridiculous these days. I suspect you could very easily spend the whole of the price of a season ticket in one night if you went with the other half. I think a sensible rise is fair enough IF we're still in this league and IF we continue to invest in the playing squad and coaching team. I'm with you on the waning interest though, this season under Moore with the daft decisions being made was enough to put me off attending and getting a ticket next year. There's a simple answer. I enjoy the gigs I go to.
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Post by King Neil on Feb 13, 2024 14:45:51 GMT 1
I would prefer the option to stay as we are and still challenge fro promotion!! We have already been successful once at this and nearly again if it wasn't for a corrupt referee in a playoff final So yeah we'll have both please Haha literally said in this scenario pick one or the other and I still got rejected 😂😂😂 We are from Yorkshire after all😁 Short arms and deep pockets 🤣
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by rab030 on Feb 13, 2024 14:46:40 GMT 1
I think we need to accept that ST prices are going up with some justification. We all want football to be affordable for everybody but market forces also play a part. I think £25 for adults and £12.50 for u16's is good value for money in the Championship which equates to £575 and £287 if you go to every game. 40% discount if you buy a season ticket would mean circa £350 and £175. Reasonable? I do think they need to create an incentive to get kids (families) to games - maybe an additional discount for buying the 2nd child season ticket? Not sure how much the ST was back in 2018 but Living Wage rate was £7.50. It increases in April this year to £11.44 - which is a 52% increase.
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Post by Sio on Feb 13, 2024 14:47:12 GMT 1
It's a double edged sword. If we want to be more competitive then we need to attract better players, to attract better players we need to pay bigger wages, to pay bigger wages we need to raise revenue, to raise revenue we need to increase our prices. In my opinion we have had it far too good for far too long. A price increase should be realistic if not modest, but it should happen. That way if we are subsequently shite we really will be able to complain. The club has been run like a circus for 5-6 years yet most have still forked out £300 for the pleasure - is that really far too good? As posters above have mentioned, a significant price hike (anything over £75 more) will absolutely result in a drop in attendance, which kills the atmosphere, which has a knock on the match day experience, and who knows, might even dissuade some players from joining. Atmosphere and perceptions of 'size' of a club do have an impact on how appealing it is, and full stadiums help that. Confidence in the club is improving but still low. There's no way they can keep decent crowds with higher prices unless we make a seriously impressive managerial appointment.
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 13, 2024 14:48:20 GMT 1
They didn't. We did though and still continue to do so. This season has been a complete shitshow yet no-one seems bothered anymore. Maybe apathy has well and truly set in.I think so too. And I think the apathy was hastened by our (the club AND fans) attitude to the PL. The "just happy to be there" rhetoric meant SOME fans seem to not care if we fall through the divisions again because we "had a hell of a ride". Yes we did, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope and strive for more success and not just be happy (AT BEST) treading water in the division. Agreed, but I mentioned this whole "happy to be here" stuff a few weeks back and it caused a right rumpus. I still think it's true though, I don't think many other clubs would have adopted such an attitude.
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Post by Big Ern on Feb 13, 2024 14:50:18 GMT 1
It's a double edged sword. If we want to be more competitive then we need to attract better players, to attract better players we need to pay bigger wages, to pay bigger wages we need to raise revenue, to raise revenue we need to increase our prices. In my opinion we have had it far too good for far too long. A price increase should be realistic if not modest, but it should happen. That way if we are subsequently shite we really will be able to complain. The club has been run like a circus for 5-6 years yet most have still forked out £300 for the pleasure - is that really far too good? As posters above have mentioned, a significant price hike (anything over £75 more) will absolutely result in a drop in attendance, which kills the atmosphere, which has a knock on the match day experience, and who knows, might even dissuade some players from joining. Atmosphere and perceptions of 'size' of a club do have an impact on how appealing it is, and full stadiums help that. Confidence in the club is improving but still low. There's no way they can keep decent crowds with higher prices unless we make a seriously impressive managerial appointment. I do think ticket sales will hinge on this next managerial appointment. If we bring in a big name and not some run of the mill manager then that will show a great degree of ambition and ambition will put bums on seats. Maybe they are waiting to announce the new guy along with the prices of next seasons tickets, who knows. I don't want to attend a half empty stadium bit I equally understand that relative to this division our prices are low and so is our budget, we are also 4th bottom. There has to be a correlation somewhere
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 13, 2024 14:50:58 GMT 1
Look at the 2016-17 promotion season, exciting new manager (granted he'd been here since the previous November), very cheap tickets (weren't they £150?), a full-ish ground every week and a fantastic atmosphere that was, in my opinion, unrivalled at that time.
I still believe that the crowd got us at least 10 points that season.
If they'd have charged £400 the ground would have been half empty, there would have been no atmosphere to speak of and perhaps we may never have gone up.
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Post by mosher on Feb 13, 2024 14:51:00 GMT 1
I think so too. And I think the apathy was hastened by our (the club AND fans) attitude to the PL. The "just happy to be there" rhetoric meant SOME fans seem to not care if we fall through the divisions again because we "had a hell of a ride". Yes we did, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hope and strive for more success and not just be happy (AT BEST) treading water in the division. Agreed, but I mentioned this whole "happy to be here" stuff a few weeks back and it caused a right rumpus. I still think it's true though, I don't think many other clubs would have adopted such an attitude. It would be interesting to see how Luton have promoted themselves locally since getting to the PL. Arguably a much MUCH smaller club than Town so surely they've been saying the same shit we were about just being glad to be there?
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Feb 13, 2024 14:53:12 GMT 1
Nobody can deny that season ticket prices at HTAFC have been fantastic value for many years compared to practically every other club in the EFL. For comparison, my ST at Sutton United cost £349….. to sit in a 1950’s grandstand with no accessible amenities, watching bottom end League 2 football, and that is a concessionary price!
I don’t believe the age and wealth demographic for Town fans is any different to any other club in the EFL, so I don’t really think Town fans have much justification for grumbling if the price increase for season tickets was 25% or more.
In my opinion whatever the percentage increase is for a ST next season then that same increase should also apply to purchases for individual games or “on the day walk-ups”. For many different reasons not everyone can justify buying a ST, me included now, but why should those fans (because that IS what they are) be in any way financially penalised?
To answer Carmichael Dave’s question about cost of a ST v results on the pitch, then it is a bit of a circular argument. Winning football is the best possible incentive for fans to attend, irrespective of prices. In general, more money spent = better players = better results. Excitement is the cherry on the top, but the most important thing is winning.
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on Feb 13, 2024 14:55:12 GMT 1
Look at the 2016-17 promotion season, exciting new manager (granted he'd been here since the previous November), very cheap tickets (weren't they £150?), a full-ish ground every week and a fantastic atmosphere that was, in my opinion, unrivalled at that time. I still believe that the crowd got us at least 10 points that season. If they'd have charged £400 the ground would have been half empty, there would have been no atmosphere to speak of and perhaps we may never have gone up. £179 in 2016, so about £235 now with inflation
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htfcterry
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by htfcterry on Feb 13, 2024 14:55:52 GMT 1
I would prefer the option to stay as we are and still challenge fro promotion!! We have already been successful once at this and nearly again if it wasn't for a corrupt referee in a playoff final So yeah we'll have both please Haha literally said in this scenario pick one or the other and I still got rejected 😂😂😂 Out of interest in relation to your first post.. What happens when the prices are increased and next season turns out to be a shit show relegation battle anyway? The current regime have hardly covered themselves in glory this season with managerial choices. You're going to get alot of disgruntled Town fans at paying more for the same shit. Look back at our 2019/20 squad and what it was worth compared to this squad. The potential percentage increases, even at 50%, don't touch the sides. Showing a little bit of ambition (new manager?) and bums on seats on a Saturday afternoon will create the perfect storm for a good season without spending a fuck ton of money on overpriced players like the Kongolos and Mbenza's of the world.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Feb 13, 2024 14:57:26 GMT 1
I know it's against the rules but I'd go with a 4 year plan. 10% increase each year.
With compounding it would be better than a big increase now but still be affordable for people, they would also know what to expect. If the 3 year plan comes to fruition then it would still mean a packed stadium and affordable. Year 5 could be judged by our situation.
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Post by detox on Feb 13, 2024 14:58:35 GMT 1
16,000 SC holders x £249 = £3.98m
12,000 SC holders x £350 = £4.20m
So the question is for an extra £202k is it worth having a half empty stadium ? I accept concession prices will reduce these figures thus the revenue gain will be less.
Given around 6,000 SC holders are not even turning up.(see below)..maybe even more than 4,000 won't buy at £350 ?
Last season our average home 'gate' was 19,049...of which 1,440 were away fans leaving 17,609 as our average home fans gate. The recorded actual 'attendance' of home fans by the safety officer was 11,788. Thus on average 5,821 SC holders didn't turn up each game. Will they renew at a higher price ?
It's a tough decision for the club, particularlyin light of yet another relegation battle...
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htfcterry
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by htfcterry on Feb 13, 2024 15:04:57 GMT 1
16,000 SC holders x £249 = £3.98m 12,000 SC holders x £350 = £4.20m So the question is for an extra £202k is it worth having a half empty stadium ? I accept concession prices will reduce these figures thus the revenue gain will be less. Given around 6,000 SC holders are not even turning up.(see below)..maybe even more than 4,000 won't buy at £350 ? Last season our average home 'gate' was 19,049...of which 1,440 were away fans leaving 17,609 as our average home fans gate. The recorded actual 'attendance' of home fans by the safety officer was 11,788. Thus on average 5,821 SC holders didn't turn up each game. Will they renew at a higher price ? It's a tough decision for the club, particularlyin light of yet another relegation battle... Contrary to me questioning Smithers' post- £350 is a perfectly reasonable price for championship football at just over £15 per home game in my opinion. We pay just about double that for most away games. One of the the problems here is that previous ownership have kind of set the expectation of cheap tickets because they did it for such a long time. I don't recommend anyone going and seeing what Sacremento Republic have to pay right now 🤣 the shirts alone were $90 or something daft last season
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Post by paulmat on Feb 13, 2024 15:15:13 GMT 1
16,000 SC holders x £249 = £3.98m 12,000 SC holders x £350 = £4.20m So the question is for an extra £202k is it worth having a half empty stadium ? I accept concession prices will reduce these figures thus the revenue gain will be less. Given around 6,000 SC holders are not even turning up.(see below)..maybe even more than 4,000 won't buy at £350 ? Last season our average home 'gate' was 19,049...of which 1,440 were away fans leaving 17,609 as our average home fans gate. The recorded actual 'attendance' of home fans by the safety officer was 11,788. Thus on average 5,821 SC holders didn't turn up each game. Will they renew at a higher price ? It's a tough decision for the club, particularlyin light of yet another relegation battle... The other thing to consider, is that less season ticket sales will probably lead to higher match by match revenue. As those who don't renew, will likely (not in all cases) go to some matches still, especially if we're getting good results. I have two daughters, 10 and 7. My 10 year old has a season ticket, mainly because at £49 I only have to take her to 5 matches to make it value for money. My 7 year old has just started to going to games this season but has been to 4 already. If under 11 season tickets stay at £49 I'll likely get them both one next season. If they go up to £100 maybe I wouldn't, but the chances are I'd spend £50+ each taking them to games anyway. But then cheap season tickets for under 11s is a great way of securing fans for the future. A lot for the club to consider.
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Post by Gold Coast Terrier on Feb 13, 2024 15:20:36 GMT 1
We can lift revenue in other ways than ticket prices if we got our act together with food and drink. We have a lot of 40-50 year old blokes at the matches, and we’re trying to sell them replica shirts.
I’m guessing if we made it easier to buy a pint before and at half-time we might have a bit more success over the course of a season. Many fans already spend a good chunk on their match day experience, it’s just not all spent with the club. So capturing more of that would be a promising opportunity without stretching fans any further. Away fans too, lots of missed potential there with people who are making a day of it.
I know the stadium ownership makes it not this simple. But that’s where my focus would be before raising ticket prices.
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Post by castlehillterrier on Feb 13, 2024 15:21:52 GMT 1
We can lift revenue in other ways than ticket prices if we got our act together with food and drink. We have a lot of 40-50 year old blokes at the matches, and we’re trying to sell them replica shirts. I’m guessing if we made it easier to buy a pint before and at half-time we might have a bit more success over the course of a season. Many fans already spend a good chunk on their match day experience, it’s just not all spent with the club. So capturing more of that would be a promising opportunity without stretching fans any further. Away fans too, lots of missed potential there with people who are making a day of it. I know the stadium ownership makes it not this simple. But that’s where my focus would be before raising ticket prices. pointless until we are in control of the stadium.
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Post by CurlyWurly on Feb 13, 2024 15:23:05 GMT 1
Nobody can deny that season ticket prices at HTAFC have been fantastic value for many years compared to practically every other club in the EFL. For comparison, my ST at Sutton United cost £349….. to sit in a 1950’s grandstand with no accessible amenities, watching bottom end League 2 football, and that is a concessionary price! I don’t believe the age and wealth demographic for Town fans is any different to any other club in the EFL, so I don’t really think Town fans have much justification for grumbling if the price increase for season tickets was 25% or more. In my opinion whatever the percentage increase is for a ST next season then that same increase should also apply to purchases for individual games or “on the day walk-ups”. For many different reasons not everyone can justify buying a ST, me included now, but why should those fans (because that IS what they are) be in any way financially penalised? To answer Carmichael Dave’s question about cost of a ST v results on the pitch, then it is a bit of a circular argument. Winning football is the best possible incentive for fans to attend, irrespective of prices. In general, more money spent = better players = better results. Excitement is the cherry on the top, but the most important thing is winning. I don't think town fans would grumble. They just wouldn't go.
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Post by harrythedog on Feb 13, 2024 15:25:32 GMT 1
Don't forget Gents, the VAT man gets one sixth of all ticket prices. If my season ticket goes up by £100 the VAT man gets £16.67 of that, and technically, there's corp tax on the balance, at least at 19% on the £83.33 although I wouldn't like to guess when Town last paid any corp tax, or any football club paid any for that matter. IMO - we've paid too little for too long for our SC's. Regardless of relegation battles or not, we can't expect champagne football on beer money.
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crux
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by crux on Feb 13, 2024 15:29:37 GMT 1
I'm expecting around £350 for the average adult price, with maybe some areas higher and some lower. I suspect it was going to be £300 this season, but they'd lost the data on the Covid season and couldn't tell who was due to get the £249 price, so everyone did!
The key will be a stadium deal and then the ability to provide other facilities, particularly on match days. When Spurs moved to their new stadium the average match day spend per person went from £1.50 to around £15. If the average match day spend can be increased at Town (probably not by that much!), then the actual ticket price won't have to increase that much - especially to the £700+ that Middlesbrough are looking for in their 'early bird' offer 🫣
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Post by detox on Feb 13, 2024 15:31:16 GMT 1
16,000 SC holders x £249 = £3.98m 12,000 SC holders x £350 = £4.20m So the question is for an extra £202k is it worth having a half empty stadium ? I accept concession prices will reduce these figures thus the revenue gain will be less. Given around 6,000 SC holders are not even turning up.(see below)..maybe even more than 4,000 won't buy at £350 ? Last season our average home 'gate' was 19,049...of which 1,440 were away fans leaving 17,609 as our average home fans gate. The recorded actual 'attendance' of home fans by the safety officer was 11,788. Thus on average 5,821 SC holders didn't turn up each game. Will they renew at a higher price ? It's a tough decision for the club, particularlyin light of yet another relegation battle... The other thing to consider, is that less season ticket sales will probably lead to higher match by match revenue. As those who don't renew, will likely (not in all cases) go to some matches still, especially if we're getting good results. I have two daughters, 10 and 7. My 10 year old has a season ticket, mainly because at £49 I only have to take her to 5 matches to make it value for money. My 7 year old has just started to going to games this season but has been to 4 already. If under 11 season tickets stay at £49 I'll likely get them both one next season. If they go up to £100 maybe I wouldn't, but the chances are I'd spend £50+ each taking them to games anyway. But then cheap season tickets for under 11s is a great way of securing fans for the future. A lot for the club to consider. that's a fair comment but i've no idea how many turn up and pay at the turnstiles each week. The 'actual' attendance figures i've quoted above will include a number of pay on the day so in reality the number of SC holders not attending will be even higher. A good season will see 1,000's paying at the gate...a poor season it'll be nearer 500, or less.
For the club to 'plan for the future' money in the bank is needed.. At £25 entry fee the 'casual fan' might just pay £250 a season too..or simply lose the habit.. Attracting youngsters though secures an adult entry, so I can't see kids prices being pushed up.
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Post by Mastercracker on Feb 13, 2024 15:31:18 GMT 1
All that happens if we go back to 'normal' pricing is we return to 12/13k gates. We'll be returning to them anyway unless we finally arrest the constant relegation battles and 10 wins a season. An increase is probably ok and due but don't take the piss and expect everyone to just crack on as they have been. but 12 / 13 k season ticket holders at a higher price and then a significant amount of tickets sold per game at a higher price would be much more benifit for the club, the ambition is to be top half next season if we are winning games the stadium will be around 20k most weeks, with the people not getting a season ticket due to the cost ending up paying more to see less games as they would buy tickets to watch a succesful club. Go back to fantasy island you fucking cretin.
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Post by castlehillterrier on Feb 13, 2024 15:31:40 GMT 1
Wow lots of interesting conversation. I’ll do my best to reply: 1. When the process is OVER, and after all appropriate announcements, we’ll do a diary on the subject. Now of course, it will be vague at times (we won’t say “well Jim Smith just didn’t cut it, and Bob Holzenkirklehoffer interviewed terribly” etc), but more of how the process went and was designed. Also, I have been saving some of these “media reports” that I will read off to KN and disclose the absolute rubbish (your word) when applicable. But as we’ve tried to do, you’ll get a level of transparency not the norm, but of course we won’t publicly out or embarrass anyone, there’s just no upside. 2. I cannot stress enough that things like season ticket pricing is not my corner of the store. I have ZERO input on that whatsoever, way above my pay grade. But after reading the last few pages, let me pose a question as a radio host rather than the other guy: Would you rather pay a decent increase (I hesitate to put a number because I don’t want anyone taking that as some sort of thing being thrown around, so I’ll pick what someone said earlier- let’s say 30%) and have a team threatening to promote? Or Same prices, and fighting relegation. Now I think I’ve been here long enough to anticipate SOME answers so let me be clear: - yes you could have both lower prices and be extremely competitive, but in the scenario I’m offering you have to pick one or the other - yes I’m aware that one person’s answer and another’s will be highly based on individual finances, I’m looking for a broad feedback and not ground level I’m asking because we’ve had similar conversations over here with our local team, I’m curious as to if it’s any different/the same over here. And again, please trust me to not read anything into anything I’m saying other than that I’m curious. I’ve never lied to you and I never will, so please take at face value. Soon all the guessing will be over and we can focus on beating the hell out of all these teams coming up as we get healthier. Pip Pip Cheerio 100% increase the prices with a potential promotion candidate, but the increase needs to come either way and ticket pricing should never be alligned to expectations on the pitch the majorty would support the club however bad or well we are doing, what we need to do is increase to a level that is still the low end of the championship but is a lot more realistic than £249.00 (subject to championship status, even in L1 an increase should happen) and then we should look at the season after pricing based on the feel good factor around the club if its positive increase again. I think we will not lose many fans with a realistic increase, if we are challenging around the top 6 and playing entertaining football (ala Southampton away) we will be almost full every week no matter what the pricing and no matter how many season tickets sold. The problem is prices have been so low now for a long time and are just not sustainable, I paid I think £249.00 this year, I spent more in one visit to the club shop in August ! My ticket should be in my opinion around £380.00 with some other tickets a little more than this (central upper tier example) and some lower, lower tier big red, final blocks all corners of the ground a range from £330 - £420 for Adults should be about the correct pricing for HTAFC. Give incentives for families, look for some vouchers / discount codes to be added I think this will work fine for all but a small number of fans and for these try and offer a payment plan to work for them.
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Post by King Neil on Feb 13, 2024 15:34:21 GMT 1
but 12 / 13 k season ticket holders at a higher price and then a significant amount of tickets sold per game at a higher price would be much more benifit for the club, the ambition is to be top half next season if we are winning games the stadium will be around 20k most weeks, with the people not getting a season ticket due to the cost ending up paying more to see less games as they would buy tickets to watch a succesful club. Go back to fantasy island you fucking cretin. De plane de plane 🤣🤣
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