Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
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Post by Melc on Feb 7, 2024 12:34:36 GMT 1
One or two are beginning to call posters on this thread out now. As David Hartrick said in the latest We Are Terriers podcast (Steve/David, I accept payment by BACS), "football fans are just not rational". I'd re-phrase that and say that Town fans are more often than not totally irrational when they post. It's as though normal sentient human beings suddenly put their stupid cap on. Cooper... get real! Some guy from Europe whom they've never heard of before, but looks good because he's got a film star name; Warnock who the club sacked in the summer; and a certain German/US manager who is in employment and on the verge of the play offs. However, and fortunately, I understand that is less about plunging IQs in the HD area and more about some type of cognitive disease that afflicts football fans. Also, an old phenomenon with a new twist... a poster who posts the most outrageous ITK shite and and actually gets a kick out of winding other posters up, and seems to revel in receiving abuse for it. Cough... castlehillterrier . Perhaps he types wearing a hair shirt. Further, the head sheds at the club now realise that they got the last appointment wrong, although perhaps it might have turned out differently with some summer signings and fewer injuries. This is why, after realising their mistake, they are exploring every avenue in trying to get this appointment right. Unfortunately for them, whoever the new manager is, it's extremely likely that they will eventually be sacked... and in Town's case, sooner rather than later. Reading that has given me a headache!
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Tiro
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,001
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Post by Tiro on Feb 7, 2024 12:36:04 GMT 1
I'm sure the question we all want to know the answer to is; who has Dunc Foster agreed to hire?
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Post by desertstorm on Feb 7, 2024 12:38:00 GMT 1
You appear all in on it not been Duff, giving us hope they are thinking outside the box. Get the hard hat prepared if it isn't. He wasn’t and isn’t the prime target, could it happen, yes.
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Post by royrace on Feb 7, 2024 12:39:25 GMT 1
Duff. A recent spectacular failure in this league and no other championship experience whatsoever. Wouldn't be my choice. I prefer track record over words especially when we're in a relegation battle. Not my choice either but spectacular failure is a bit OTT. He had a win percentage of just under 30%. It didn't work admittedly but it wasn't Rooney, Munoz or Moore levels of failure. I call it spectacular because he seemed to be universally disliked by fans and players alike in a very short space of time. Big contrast to someone like Rob Edwards at Watford and even our Darren who at least didn't lose the dressing room. Comparing him favourably to Rooney or Munoz levels of failure isn't really much of an endorsement!
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Post by harris on Feb 7, 2024 12:41:31 GMT 1
A large percentage of managers who get a new role as manager were failures in their last position i.e. they were sacked. If you look at Town managers over the last 15 years, they all failed eventually... all except Carlos Corberan that is.He lost in the Play-off final. Lost a coin flip after an outstanding 50+ game season. I know what you’re saying, that losing a play off final isn’t a success… but it’s extremely harsh to say he failed here after taking us levels above our norm. Probably best not to open the Carlos can of worms AGAIN though.
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Post by royrace on Feb 7, 2024 12:46:17 GMT 1
Duff. A recent spectacular failure in this league and no other championship experience whatsoever. Wouldn't be my choice. I prefer track record over words especially when we're in a relegation battle. A large percentage of managers who get a new role as manager were failures in their last position i.e. they were sacked. If you look at Town managers over the last 15 years, they all failed eventually... all except Carlos Corberan that is. Absolutely however one recent failure out of one attempt in the division you're recruiting for is a concern imo and there is nothing in his track record to suggest he can perform at this level. In addition to the lack of a track record he was very quickly disliked by fans and players alike in his previous role which is reason for caution imo and a potential red flag. So no track record in this league except for a spectacular very recent failure. I'm hoping there are better options. I would likely feel differently if we didn't need someone who could immediately get results, for that it feels we need experience in this league.
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Feb 7, 2024 12:47:54 GMT 1
Regarding the earlier point about doing a thorough search and ending up with a guy we could have got straight away (Duff).
Going through a thorough due diligence period means:
- we find out more about other candidates (might help with the decision of when to move on from the next guy) - gives confidence that you've got the right man - tells the playing staff that the new appointment has come through a rigorous process - we're in a better position to set expectations with the new guy - can take ideas & suggestions from the ones we don't pick - might also help with salary negotiations, or ideas for backroom staff - sets an example/ creates a template on how we should be recruiting for other roles across the business
Also shows that we mean business and aren't doing things half arsed. The downside is it might take an extra week or so? Not ideal but definitely worth the wait.
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ldotm
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,879
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Post by ldotm on Feb 7, 2024 12:48:56 GMT 1
He lost in the Play-off final. Lost a coin flip after an outstanding 50+ game season. I know what you’re saying, that losing a play off final isn’t a success… but it’s extremely harsh to say he failed here after taking us levels above our norm. Probably best not to open the Carlos can of worms AGAIN though. If Carlos and Wagner were deemed failures for us, then people will never be happy as a Town fan.
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Post by castlehillterrier on Feb 7, 2024 12:53:54 GMT 1
If as we are led to believe Carmichael Dave reads this forum and is an advisor to KN you’d think Duff would be not the first choice. He is the name that more universally would be unpopular atm. Some against PH. Some against Rowett but a large amount against Duff. While I realise they shouldn’t be making a decision based on DATM I also think given the previous decision to remove NW and give it Moore they’d be sensible to take it into account. Appoint someone fans are on board with would give them more breathing space if it doesn’t initially go to plan. Just my thoughts. I’m sure someone on Dictatorship at the Max will be along to shoot me down and ask me to justify my opinion any minute…. Carmicael Dave does read this forum as I am sure Kevin does, I also believe that one of the concerns / frustrations (not the only one) with NW was the lack of time he spent at the club due to living so far away, If and its a big if Duff would be considered for the role I am sure that this would be only based on him relocating to yorkshire, living in Chelthnam would not in anyway be an option long term for our new manager.
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Post by royrace on Feb 7, 2024 12:54:15 GMT 1
Regarding the earlier point about doing a thorough search and ending up with a guy we could have got straight away (Duff). Going through a thorough due diligence period means: - we find out more about other candidates (might help with the decision of when to move on from the next guy) - gives confidence that you've got the right man - tells the playing staff that the new appointment has come through a rigorous process - we're in a better position to set expectations with the new guy - can take ideas & suggestions from the ones we don't pick - might also help with salary negotiations, or ideas for backroom staff - sets an example/ creates a template on how we should be recruiting for other roles across the business Also shows that we mean business and aren't doing things half arsed. The downside is it might take an extra week or so? Not ideal but definitely worth the wait. Absolutely, I hope they are working night and day on the due diligence and taking in outside opinion. That would seem to be a big difference to the last appointment.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Feb 7, 2024 12:57:23 GMT 1
Not my choice either but spectacular failure is a bit OTT. He had a win percentage of just under 30%. It didn't work admittedly but it wasn't Rooney, Munoz or Moore levels of failure. I call it spectacular because he seemed to be universally disliked by fans and players alike in a very short space of time. Big contrast to someone like Rob Edwards at Watford and even our Darren who at least didn't lose the dressing room. Comparing him favourably to Rooney or Munoz levels of failure isn't really much of an endorsement! Swansea fans are so far up their own arseholes with their “identity” they could clean their teeth from the back. He was a laughably inappropriate appointment (I’m not convinced he is the right man for us though).
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
That Gary Taylor fletcher will never make a footballer.....
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Feb 7, 2024 12:59:29 GMT 1
Not my choice either but spectacular failure is a bit OTT. He had a win percentage of just under 30%. It didn't work admittedly but it wasn't Rooney, Munoz or Moore levels of failure. I call it spectacular because he seemed to be universally disliked by fans and players alike in a very short space of time. Big contrast to someone like Rob Edwards at Watford and even our Darren who at least didn't lose the dressing room. Comparing him favourably to Rooney or Munoz levels of failure isn't really much of an endorsement! Yeah that's fair enough, still think Swansea just didn't like being forced to move away from being a crap Barcelona. He seems like a logical fit for us, I think it's just not very exciting.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Feb 7, 2024 13:00:17 GMT 1
And after the due diligence we’ll end up with Dirk Diggler.
Not sure about the length of the contract we’ll give him though?
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:03:14 GMT 1
He lost in the Play-off final. Lost a coin flip after an outstanding 50+ game season. I know what you’re saying, that losing a play off final isn’t a success… but it’s extremely harsh to say he failed here after taking us levels above our norm. Probably best not to open the Carlos can of worms AGAIN though. The only managers to ever leave on a high were Herbert Chapman, Cecil Potter and Neil Warnock.
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Post by King Neil on Feb 7, 2024 13:06:10 GMT 1
I can't see it being one of the usual suspects now with the amount of time that has lapsed
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:06:58 GMT 1
Lost a coin flip after an outstanding 50+ game season. I know what you’re saying, that losing a play off final isn’t a success… but it’s extremely harsh to say he failed here after taking us levels above our norm. Probably best not to open the Carlos can of worms AGAIN though. If Carlos and Wagner were deemed failures for us, then people will never be happy as a Town fan. No-one said they were failures. But their times didn't come to an end on a high note, did they?
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Post by dugnet on Feb 7, 2024 13:08:05 GMT 1
One or two are beginning to call posters on this thread out now. As David Hartrick said in the latest We Are Terriers podcast (Steve/David, I accept payment by BACS), "football fans are just not rational". I'd re-phrase that and say that Town fans are more often than not totally irrational when they post. It's as though normal sentient human beings suddenly put their stupid cap on. Cooper... get real! Some guy from Europe whom they've never heard of before, but looks good because he's got a film star name; Warnock who the club sacked in the summer; and a certain German/US manager who is in employment and on the verge of the play offs. However, and fortunately, I understand that is less about plunging IQs in the HD area and more about some type of cognitive disease that afflicts football fans. Also, an old phenomenon with a new twist... a poster who posts the most outrageous ITK shite and and actually gets a kick out of winding other posters up, and seems to revel in receiving abuse for it. Cough... castlehillterrier. Perhaps he types wearing a hair shirt. Further, the head sheds at the club now realise that they got the last appointment wrong, although perhaps it might have turned out differently with some summer signings and fewer injuries. This is why, after realising their mistake, they are exploring every avenue in trying to get this appointment right. Unfortunately for them, whoever the new manager is, it's extremely likely that they will eventually be sacked... and in Town's case, sooner rather than later. But if you have a plan of what you are looking to achieve you surely interview with that plan in mind? As such finding someone who fits your plan, and moreover adds to it, is surely the "right" candidate. Now to be fair where we are right now means we have an immediate ask, to stay in the Championship, and the wider plan may be "parked" but you have to try and get the balance (which as I have said before isn't easy). What I hope we would avoid is just inviting people to interview and seeing what they have to offer. If this is done properly we might just attract a candidate who might be "poached" away (because they have been successful)from us rather than being sacked. As for football and football fans not being rational there are many people who don't vent their spleens on social media and message boards who are invested in the success of our club. They are very valid in as much as they may make a rational decision to "not bother" any more and do something different with their leisure time if there is nothing worth watching. Journalists, commentators and some fans are polarised by social media. That doesn't mean what is said there is the definitive view, although it is a view.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Feb 7, 2024 13:09:35 GMT 1
It’s all but confirmed that it’s Duff. This either gonna end amazingly or terribly bad. Has a managers reign ever ended 'amazingly' for us?
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:11:19 GMT 1
It’s all but confirmed that it’s Duff. This either gonna end amazingly or terribly bad. Has a managers reign ever ended 'amazingly' for us? Yeah, Herbert Chapman, Cecil Potter and Neil Warnock.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 7, 2024 13:12:05 GMT 1
If Carlos and Wagner were deemed failures for us, then people will never be happy as a Town fan. No-one said they were failures. But their times didn't come to an end on a high note, did they? How did Carlos leave on a low note, of his making anyway? That's a different debate for another thread I suppose. Had both Carlos and Wagner had better support and/or a better overall plan things could have been different. And that is why a plan is really important, a plan that is understood, bought into, under constant review (as things change) and supported. NB: A plan doesn't mean a massive budget it means a strategy to use the money available wisely and pivot as needed.
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:14:20 GMT 1
No-one said they were failures. But their times didn't come to an end on a high note, did they? How did Carlos leave on a low note, of his making anyway? That's a different debate for another thread I suppose. Had both Carlos and Wagner had better support and/or a better overall plan things could have been different. And that is why a plan is really important, a plan that is understood, bought into, under constant review (as things change) and supported. NB: A plan doesn't mean a massive budget it means a strategy to use the money available wisely and pivot as needed. He left after losing a play-off final.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Feb 7, 2024 13:16:52 GMT 1
Duff. A recent spectacular failure in this league and no other championship experience whatsoever. Wouldn't be my choice. I prefer track record over words especially when we're in a relegation battle. If Moore had achieved the same win % at Town that Duff did at Swansea then Moore would still be in charge. Spectacular failure is a bit OTT.
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Post by dugnet on Feb 7, 2024 13:18:28 GMT 1
How did Carlos leave on a low note, of his making anyway? That's a different debate for another thread I suppose. Had both Carlos and Wagner had better support and/or a better overall plan things could have been different. And that is why a plan is really important, a plan that is understood, bought into, under constant review (as things change) and supported. NB: A plan doesn't mean a massive budget it means a strategy to use the money available wisely and pivot as needed. He left after losing a play-off final. On that back of a remarkable season that few anticipated - I suppose it is all about perspectives. For me, and I was a long time being convinced, he did a good job and could hold his head high. This isn't helping the debate of what we need going forward so I take your view.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Feb 7, 2024 13:21:38 GMT 1
How did Carlos leave on a low note, of his making anyway? That's a different debate for another thread I suppose. Had both Carlos and Wagner had better support and/or a better overall plan things could have been different. And that is why a plan is really important, a plan that is understood, bought into, under constant review (as things change) and supported. NB: A plan doesn't mean a massive budget it means a strategy to use the money available wisely and pivot as needed. He left after losing a play-off final. Consider how Town performed before he arrived and then again after he left, you can see that he did well with the squad he had and knew he could not follow it with Dean's planned cut's to the squad.
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:23:08 GMT 1
He left after losing a play-off final. On that back of a remarkable season that few anticipated - I suppose it is all about perspectives. For me, and I was a long time being convinced, he did a good job and could hold his head high. This isn't helping the debate of what we need going forward so I take your view. The 2010-11 season was a great season as well, but we lost in the final. I don't buy this, "we were shite, we didn't deserve to be there, Carlos was a genius" attitude. We finished 3rd, we got to the final. We absolutely deserved to be there. Sadly, he fell at the final hurdle and we lost. So that's why it didn't end on a high. If we'd won and he'd fucked off afterwards then it would be leaving on a high. Like Warnock did.
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Post by htafcokay on Feb 7, 2024 13:23:44 GMT 1
He left after losing a play-off final. Consider how Town performed before he arrived and then again after he left, you can see that he did well with the squad he had and knew he could not follow it with Dean's planned cut's to the squad. Of course he did well, but leaving after losing a final is not leaving on a high.
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,454
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Post by incognito on Feb 7, 2024 13:23:53 GMT 1
Regarding the earlier point about doing a thorough search and ending up with a guy we could have got straight away (Duff). Going through a thorough due diligence period means: - we find out more about other candidates (might help with the decision of when to move on from the next guy) - gives confidence that you've got the right man - tells the playing staff that the new appointment has come through a rigorous process - we're in a better position to set expectations with the new guy - can take ideas & suggestions from the ones we don't pick - might also help with salary negotiations, or ideas for backroom staff - sets an example/ creates a template on how we should be recruiting for other roles across the business Also shows that we mean business and aren't doing things half arsed. The downside is it might take an extra week or so? Not ideal but definitely worth the wait. Given our league position, and the fact we are about to move on to our sixth permanent manager in 20 months, an equally important part of this process is the opportunity to sell the job / club to the preferred candidate(s).
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Post by bells ringing :) on Feb 7, 2024 13:27:54 GMT 1
If one of the frustrations of Warnocks time with us, was him doing it kind of part time. Then what is the point in even talking to Duff, he lives in Cheltenham Kev and he will NOT move . Therefore you are appointing if you do someone you will have the same issue with ! If you read this forum or your advisor does, then don't put yourself in situations that you will only have to undo by sackings etc. Duf will NOT move to be part of the community if that is a big deal to you, then it is a NON starter with Duff.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Feb 7, 2024 13:33:16 GMT 1
I don't quite get this clamour for an unknown foreign coach, like the guy managing an Italian midtable second tier side, but whoever they decide will get my support until they prove they can't cut it.
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Post by kennyk2 on Feb 7, 2024 13:33:39 GMT 1
One or two are beginning to call posters on this thread out now. As David Hartrick said in the latest We Are Terriers podcast (Steve/David, I accept payment by BACS), "football fans are just not rational". I'd re-phrase that and say that Town fans are more often than not totally irrational when they post. It's as though normal sentient human beings suddenly put their stupid cap on. Cooper... get real! Some guy from Europe whom they've never heard of before, but looks good because he's got a film star name; Warnock who the club sacked in the summer; and a certain German/US manager who is in employment and on the verge of the play offs. However, and fortunately, I understand that is less about plunging IQs in the HD area and more about some type of cognitive disease that afflicts football fans. Also, an old phenomenon with a new twist... a poster who posts the most outrageous ITK shite and and actually gets a kick out of winding other posters up, and seems to revel in receiving abuse for it. Cough... castlehillterrier . Perhaps he types wearing a hair shirt. Further, the head sheds at the club now realise that they got the last appointment wrong, although perhaps it might have turned out differently with some summer signings and fewer injuries. This is why, after realising their mistake, they are exploring every avenue in trying to get this appointment right. Unfortunately for them, whoever the new manager is, it's extremely likely that they will eventually be sacked... and in Town's case, sooner rather than later. Reading that has given me a headache! Take your cap off then!
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