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Post by Junior & Onuora on Mar 19, 2024 19:06:40 GMT 1
I'm intrigued by the Hull City membership arrangement. It's a rolling contract - like Netflix. Cancel whenever you want. Monthly payments, so good for everyone's cashflow. Technically, you could cancel in the summer and start again at the start of the season, but you'd lose your seat. And you could cancel three months into a shitty session, but Hull must think it's worth the risk; they've run it for a few years now www.wearehullcity.co.uk/tickets/memberships/ |
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 19, 2024 19:21:03 GMT 1
With all due respect, you do seem to be a bit out of touch, or dismissive, of how people are struggling with the cost of living. Real inflation which people experience is far higher than the official “basket of items” rate. If non-discretionary items such as running a car to get to work, basic food staples, insurance, etc go through the roof then there can be beggar all left for discretionary spending. There’s a lot of demand for people’s discretionary money these days, far more than in the “old days”. Paying more money to watch an increasingly worse Town “product” will not appeal, or be affordable, for many people. It’s totally irrelevant to them that a season ticket cost more a few years ago. Regardless, you come across as thinking that because you can / want to pay more, then others can afford it too; well, they can’t or they won’t. More broadly, the reality is the club is a business and the economics of supply and demand apply to it. If it has a poor “product” which is priced too highly, then fewer people will buy it. Price it properly and entice people with discounts etc then the seats will be full. You cant price your product aimed at the very poorest who cant afford any kind of rise, even a rise that amounts to the cost of a packet of crisps per week, when its a tiny percentage of your customers that are in that position. It's just unrealistic for a business to do that and as you say , it's a business. Id like to see us offer seats that are still more affordable and Im sure we will, but why is huddersfield this special case where the fans will only attend if we're paying half the going rate and the idea we'll be asked to pay what we were paying 8 years ago and still less than everyone else is unacceptable?? And then people moan that the products not great! Why should it be when our income is so low? Are Rotherham fans moaning that they should be doing much better in the championship? I doubt it really..they probably accept that their income is the lowest in the division so expect to struggle..but Huddersfield, whos income is probably next smallest ..their fans expect to be much higher up? Why? Sorry to say, with respect, that's a bit naive Captain. Consider this -
- Kirlees is one of the lowest income regions in the country.
- Poverty affects 1 in 3 households in Kirklees, with 1 in 4 households having an annual income of less than £10,000 and 1 in 5 older people classed as living in poverty.
- our town centre attracts vaping shops, poundland, discounters etc, not Harvey Nicks, John Lewis, Waitrose, etc. What does this tell you? It tells me that other businesses, apart from Town, have already experienced low demand for their products and moved away, even after discounting their products, and others have decided that the profile of people and their income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they won't even take the effort to give it a go.
- easyJet, for an illustration, charge more for a segment of passengers who want more frills, but also have bargain basement fares for people who choose the very minimum, or can't afford more. We could easily revert to having different prices for different seating zones. You want a nice view in the upper, you pay more. You're happy to be behind the goals and get wet through when it rains, or stuck in a corner, you get the cheapest seats.
Anyway, I won't convince you, I think you're set in your ways and opinions, but perhaps someone from the club's management team might see this thread and take some of these into consideration. I even wonder, completely speculatively, whether our departed director might possibly have been involved in such discussions and had a firm opinion which didn't agree with the newcomers?
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Post by conman on Mar 19, 2024 19:44:36 GMT 1
You cant price your product aimed at the very poorest who cant afford any kind of rise, even a rise that amounts to the cost of a packet of crisps per week, when its a tiny percentage of your customers that are in that position. It's just unrealistic for a business to do that and as you say , it's a business. Id like to see us offer seats that are still more affordable and Im sure we will, but why is huddersfield this special case where the fans will only attend if we're paying half the going rate and the idea we'll be asked to pay what we were paying 8 years ago and still less than everyone else is unacceptable?? And then people moan that the products not great! Why should it be when our income is so low? Are Rotherham fans moaning that they should be doing much better in the championship? I doubt it really..they probably accept that their income is the lowest in the division so expect to struggle..but Huddersfield, whos income is probably next smallest ..their fans expect to be much higher up? Why? Sorry to say, with respect, that's a bit naive Captain. Consider this - - Kirlees is one of the lowest income regions in the country. - Poverty affects 1 in 3 households in Kirklees, with 1 in 4 households having an annual income of less than £10,000 and 1 in 5 older people classed as living in poverty. - our town centre attracts vaping shops, poundland, discounters etc, not Harvey Nicks, John Lewis, Waitrose, etc. What does this tell you? It tells me that other businesses, apart from Town, have already experienced low demand for their products and moved away, even after discounting their products, and others have decided that the profile of people and their income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they won't even take the effort to give it a go.
- easyJet, for an illustration, charge more for a segment of passengers who want more frills, but also have bargain basement fares for people who choose the very minimum, or can't afford more. We could easily revert to having different prices for different seating zones. You want a nice view in the upper, you pay more. You're happy to be behind the goals and get wet through when it rains, or stuck in a corner, you get the cheapest seats. Anyway, I won't convince you, I think you're set in your ways and opinions, but perhaps someone from the club's management team might see this thread and take some of these into consideration. I even wonder, completely speculatively, whether our departed director might possibly have been involved in such discussions and had a firm opinion which didn't agree with the newcomers? Good post 👍 , but don't forget the Turkish barbers and nail bars.. |
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 19, 2024 19:46:52 GMT 1
I'm intrigued by the Hull City membership arrangement. It's a rolling contract - like Netflix. Cancel whenever you want. Monthly payments, so good for everyone's cashflow. Technically, you could cancel in the summer and start again at the start of the season, but you'd lose your seat. And you could cancel three months into a shitty session, but Hull must think it's worth the risk; they've run it for a few years now www.wearehullcity.co.uk/tickets/memberships/Very interesting, worth looking at. |
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Mar 19, 2024 20:15:27 GMT 1
Where’s the evidence that our low season card prices have resulted in a significant gap with other clubs in terms of season card and match day revenue? Looking at Swiss Ramble: For 2022, Bristol’s match day revenue was £5.2 million, broken down *by* as £3.2 million in season card takings and £2 million for the rest. For the same period, Town’s revenue was £5.2m as well, but no break down is provided. I assume we sell more season cards than them (due to the more affordable price) and end up at around the same revenue. Picking two random clubs from the Swiss Ramble archive, Coventry and Blackburn’s match day revenue was below Town’s. We obviously *fall* down when it comes to commercial revenue. According the Swiss Ramble, Bristol’s commercial income was £15.8 million in 2022 (rising to £21 million in 2023). Ours was £4.1 million. So when people say we can’t compete in the Championship because our season tickets are too ‘cheap’ (they aren’t cheap they’re affordable), it’s not the case. One of the reasons we don’t compete is because we are commercially poor. There are lots of reasons for that, no doubt, including things within our control (poor player trading, high turnover of managers, etc.) and things not within our control (i.e., the stadium ownership situation). People say correlation isn’t causation, but in this case, there’s no evidence for either! swissramble.substack.com/p/bristol-city-finances-202223swissramble.substack.com/p/huddersfield-town-finances-202122swissramble.substack.com/p/coventry-city-finances-202122swissramble.substack.com/p/blackburn-rovers-finances-202122 |
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Post by Torquayterrier on Mar 19, 2024 20:23:40 GMT 1
For some context if I go to see Torquay as a one off pay on the day it's £20 to stand up in the pop stand. That's 6th tier football and currently in administration looking for a new owner.
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Post by Jello Biafra on Mar 19, 2024 20:35:06 GMT 1
Anyone got the figures for the amount of ST holders pre 2016 (Hoyle’s first reduction year) and what they’ve been in subsequent seasons?
In the Premier seasons the ST revenue was virtually irrelevant as an income source, so they kept the price down and filled the place. It’s got to the point in the Championship now that this is increasingly the case. To afford the better quality players, especially if using the British market, then the money has to come from either a hugely increased commercial operation, or straight from Nagle’s pocket.
Wagner recruited brilliantly from the German second tier, but it still cost Hoyle a few £M. Luckily (or so Hoyle thought) the Prem money rolled in to offset his (comparatively modest) outlay - despite it all going tits-up in the end.
The bottom line, as far as I can see, is that increasing the cost of STs will only result in lower attendances, which will negate any potential to generate increased concession income once the stadium is under Nagle’s control.
Also, on another point that Tory Boy Slapps and his Affluent Acolytes are pushing, why on Earth should you pay more depending on where you sit? There was always a bit of a surcharge on seats when Leeds Road was terracing on 3 sides, but it was the same price to stand anywhere you liked. Clibbens made a right fucking mess with pricing, something which Hoyle should be credited with binning off (along with Clibbens) as soon as he could. If anywhere in the ground is ideal for ‘special offers’ then it’s the shit stand lower at the North end. Great, fill yer boots and get folk in there at special rates - but leave the rest of the ground alone.
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Post by atowninessex on Mar 20, 2024 10:04:55 GMT 1
we have had it good for a long time , and I do get lots of people cannot afford a big increase, say they go for £100.00 and max 15000 take it up then that's
£ 1.5m extra revenue ,suppose they then have to pay vat etc so leaves just over a million in the grand scheme of things will that make any difference to how the club is run/ buys players? also to some effect less revenue on catering and drinks during the season would counteract that , if KN and his marketing men have any sense they will make the gesture of keeping any increase to a minimum or none at all - but then i'm not sure sense ever comes in to any equation where football is concerned
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Post by htafcokay on Mar 20, 2024 10:08:57 GMT 1
Anyone got the figures for the amount of ST holders pre 2016 (Hoyle’s first reduction year) and what they’ve been in subsequent seasons?In the Premier seasons the ST revenue was virtually irrelevant as an income source, so they kept the price down and filled the place. It’s got to the point in the Championship now that this is increasingly the case. To afford the better quality players, especially if using the British market, then the money has to come from either a hugely increased commercial operation, or straight from Nagle’s pocket. Wagner recruited brilliantly from the German second tier, but it still cost Hoyle a few £M. Luckily (or so Hoyle thought) the Prem money rolled in to offset his (comparatively modest) outlay - despite it all going tits-up in the end. The bottom line, as far as I can see, is that increasing the cost of STs will only result in lower attendances, which will negate any potential to generate increased concession income once the stadium is under Nagle’s control. Also, on another point that Tory Boy Slapps and his Affluent Acolytes are pushing, why on Earth should you pay more depending on where you sit? There was always a bit of a surcharge on seats when Leeds Road was terracing on 3 sides, but it was the same price to stand anywhere you liked. Clibbens made a right fucking mess with pricing, something which Hoyle should be credited with binning off (along with Clibbens) as soon as he could. If anywhere in the ground is ideal for ‘special offers’ then it’s the shit stand lower at the North end. Great, fill yer boots and get folk in there at special rates - but leave the rest of the ground alone. Around 11,000 sales in 2015-16. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 10:23:15 GMT 1
You cant price your product aimed at the very poorest who cant afford any kind of rise, even a rise that amounts to the cost of a packet of crisps per week, when its a tiny percentage of your customers that are in that position. It's just unrealistic for a business to do that and as you say , it's a business. Id like to see us offer seats that are still more affordable and Im sure we will, but why is huddersfield this special case where the fans will only attend if we're paying half the going rate and the idea we'll be asked to pay what we were paying 8 years ago and still less than everyone else is unacceptable?? And then people moan that the products not great! Why should it be when our income is so low? Are Rotherham fans moaning that they should be doing much better in the championship? I doubt it really..they probably accept that their income is the lowest in the division so expect to struggle..but Huddersfield, whos income is probably next smallest ..their fans expect to be much higher up? Why? Sorry to say, with respect, that's a bit naive Captain. Consider this - - Kirlees is one of the lowest income regions in the country. - Poverty affects 1 in 3 households in Kirklees, with 1 in 4 households having an annual income of less than £10,000 and 1 in 5 older people classed as living in poverty. - our town centre attracts vaping shops, poundland, discounters etc, not Harvey Nicks, John Lewis, Waitrose, etc. What does this tell you? It tells me that other businesses, apart from Town, have already experienced low demand for their products and moved away, even after discounting their products, and others have decided that the profile of people and their income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they won't even take the effort to give it a go.
- easyJet, for an illustration, charge more for a segment of passengers who want more frills, but also have bargain basement fares for people who choose the very minimum, or can't afford more. We could easily revert to having different prices for different seating zones. You want a nice view in the upper, you pay more. You're happy to be behind the goals and get wet through when it rains, or stuck in a corner, you get the cheapest seats. Anyway, I won't convince you, I think you're set in your ways and opinions, but perhaps someone from the club's management team might see this thread and take some of these into consideration. I even wonder, completely speculatively, whether our departed director might possibly have been involved in such discussions and had a firm opinion which didn't agree with the newcomers? I think if you really believe that stuff about 'poverty' then it's you whos being a bit naive. Im speaking as someone who lived in 'poverty' as we technically call it for quite a few years in the early 90s without even knowing it. If I had I wouldn't have had my week in Majorca with the missus, gone to so many away games and spent so much going out with the lads boozing. the definitions of poverty are laughable. If you look up deprived areas then Huddersfield or Kirklees doesnt get a mention in lists that are pretty long in length. It's not a wealthy area but it's by no means a stand out poor one either. Other towns whos football clubs do charge the going rate and get similar crowds as us do appear though. Yet youre saying our club must provide its product at half the going rate, or it just isnt fair? Huddersfield is this special case? No you wont convince me. Im not sure what someone on the management team would think if they read this thread. Hopefully they'll see there is a demand for more affordable seating and make some areas in the stadium cheaper so no-one gets priced out. They might wonder if theyve accidentally found the script of a comedy sketch about tight Yorkshiremen though? Or that we have a fanbase who want and expect success but dont want to pay even something approaching the going rate for it themselves,,just expect the owner to carry the cost for them? |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Mar 20, 2024 10:27:04 GMT 1
we have had it good for a long time , and I do get lots of people cannot afford a big increase, say they go for £100.00 and max 15000 take it up then that's £ 1.5m extra revenue ,suppose they then have to pay vat etc so leaves just over a million in the grand scheme of things will that make any difference to how the club is run/ buys players? also to some effect less revenue on catering and drinks during the season would counteract that , if KN and his marketing men have any sense they will make the gesture of keeping any increase to a minimum or none at all - but then i'm not sure sense ever comes in to any equation where football is concerned The revenue needs to increase in many ways not just season ticket sales. - Season tickets will go up to what extent may depend on the last 8 results but honestly there is a big argument that in L1 the ticket prices might actually be higher rather than lower than in the Championship, due to massive reduction in revenue in L1. I expect around the £350.00 mark and some nice little add ons includes. - Merch the club shop and product offering will improve in the summer so an increase in revenue will be expected. - The stadium, this is the biggest one and once sorted and HTAFC have control then we can have a better revenue from the match day sales, also expect a lot of concerts booked during the summers once we have ownership sorted including some big name artists. I think we will look to try and create a kind of Piece Hall type Summer program with 4-6weeks worth of gigs and one stage set up, this will more the likely be summer 2025. - Around the ground, increasing the matchday experience with a bar / location to go before and after games. - Sponsorship / Advertising oppertunities, expect some bigger names to be introduced to HTAFC with more investment, could even see some cross Atlantic joint sponsorships with HTAFC and Sac Rep to increase the global reach. The club are working on a lot behind the scenes to increase revenue in all areas and the season tickets is one area but not the only one and they all add up so say 1 million on season tickets as above, and then add all the other parts in we could be looking at a significant increase in revenue allowing more to be spent on the team as we look to challenge at the top end of the Championship in future seasons. It will be a lot easier to acheive everything if we can finish the final 8 games in a good way, but even in L1 we will be fine jsut got to hope we stay up this season to see the real plans and ideas come the summer. |
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Post by detox on Mar 20, 2024 10:30:59 GMT 1
Sorry to say, with respect, that's a bit naive Captain. Consider this - - Kirlees is one of the lowest income regions in the country. - Poverty affects 1 in 3 households in Kirklees, with 1 in 4 households having an annual income of less than £10,000 and 1 in 5 older people classed as living in poverty. - our town centre attracts vaping shops, poundland, discounters etc, not Harvey Nicks, John Lewis, Waitrose, etc. What does this tell you? It tells me that other businesses, apart from Town, have already experienced low demand for their products and moved away, even after discounting their products, and others have decided that the profile of people and their income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they won't even take the effort to give it a go.
- easyJet, for an illustration, charge more for a segment of passengers who want more frills, but also have bargain basement fares for people who choose the very minimum, or can't afford more. We could easily revert to having different prices for different seating zones. You want a nice view in the upper, you pay more. You're happy to be behind the goals and get wet through when it rains, or stuck in a corner, you get the cheapest seats. Anyway, I won't convince you, I think you're set in your ways and opinions, but perhaps someone from the club's management team might see this thread and take some of these into consideration. I even wonder, completely speculatively, whether our departed director might possibly have been involved in such discussions and had a firm opinion which didn't agree with the newcomers? I think if you really believe that stuff about 'poverty' then it's you whos being a bit naive. Im speaking as someone who lived in 'poverty' as we technically call it for quite a few years in the early 90s without even knowing it. If I had I wouldn't have had my week in Majorca with the missus, gone to so many away games and spent so much going out with the lads boozing. the definitions of poverty are laughable. If you look up deprived areas then Huddersfield or Kirklees doesnt get a mention in lists that are pretty long in length. It's not a wealthy area but it's by no means a stand out poor one either. Other towns whos football clubs do charge the going rate and get similar crowds as us do appear though. Yet youre saying our club must provide its product at half the going rate, or it just isnt fair? Huddersfield is this special case? No you wont convince me. Im not sure what someone on the management team would think if they read this thread. Hopefully they'll see there is a demand for more affordable seating and make some areas in the stadium cheaper so no-one gets priced out. They might wonder if theyve accidentally found the script of a comedy sketch about tight Yorkshiremen though? Or that we have a fanbase who want and expect success but dont want to pay even something approaching the going rate for it themselves,,just expect the owner to carry the cost for them? The lower tier in the north end might be considered a low cost seating area perhaps ? If the club want to increase prices across the JSS but still offer a cheap option for those who struggle to afford, then that is the ideal place on the 'temporary' seats.. How you determine who can and who can not afford might be a slight problem though.. The days of flashing your UB40 are well gone... |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 11:21:39 GMT 1
Anyone got the figures for the amount of ST holders pre 2016 (Hoyle’s first reduction year) and what they’ve been in subsequent seasons? In the Premier seasons the ST revenue was virtually irrelevant as an income source, so they kept the price down and filled the place. It’s got to the point in the Championship now that this is increasingly the case. To afford the better quality players, especially if using the British market, then the money has to come from either a hugely increased commercial operation, or straight from Nagle’s pocket. Wagner recruited brilliantly from the German second tier, but it still cost Hoyle a few £M. Luckily (or so Hoyle thought) the Prem money rolled in to offset his (comparatively modest) outlay - despite it all going tits-up in the end. The bottom line, as far as I can see, is that increasing the cost of STs will only result in lower attendances, which will negate any potential to generate increased concession income once the stadium is under Nagle’s control. Also, on another point that Tory Boy Slapps and his Affluent Acolytes are pushing, why on Earth should you pay more depending on where you sit? There was always a bit of a surcharge on seats when Leeds Road was terracing on 3 sides, but it was the same price to stand anywhere you liked. Clibbens made a right fucking mess with pricing, something which Hoyle should be credited with binning off (along with Clibbens) as soon as he could. If anywhere in the ground is ideal for ‘special offers’ then it’s the shit stand lower at the North end. Great, fill yer boots and get folk in there at special rates - but leave the rest of the ground alone. Like asking why you should pay anymore for a meal out whether you go to mcDonalds or the Box Tree. It's a way of making it affordable for those who struggle so they can still go to the games. What wrong with that? Almost every club does it for the same reason. Any business that sets its financial model..what it charges..aimed at the poorest 1 or 2% of its customer base is going to struggle , especially when all its competitors aim theirs at the other 98%. This clubs always done a lot of charity work, but I didnt realise it was actually a charity! |
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 20, 2024 11:43:26 GMT 1
Anyone got the figures for the amount of ST holders pre 2016 (Hoyle’s first reduction year) and what they’ve been in subsequent seasons? In the Premier seasons the ST revenue was virtually irrelevant as an income source, so they kept the price down and filled the place. It’s got to the point in the Championship now that this is increasingly the case. To afford the better quality players, especially if using the British market, then the money has to come from either a hugely increased commercial operation, or straight from Nagle’s pocket. Wagner recruited brilliantly from the German second tier, but it still cost Hoyle a few £M. Luckily (or so Hoyle thought) the Prem money rolled in to offset his (comparatively modest) outlay - despite it all going tits-up in the end. The bottom line, as far as I can see, is that increasing the cost of STs will only result in lower attendances, which will negate any potential to generate increased concession income once the stadium is under Nagle’s control. Also, on another point that Tory Boy Slapps and his Affluent Acolytes are pushing, why on Earth should you pay more depending on where you sit? There was always a bit of a surcharge on seats when Leeds Road was terracing on 3 sides, but it was the same price to stand anywhere you liked. Clibbens made a right fucking mess with pricing, something which Hoyle should be credited with binning off (along with Clibbens) as soon as he could. If anywhere in the ground is ideal for ‘special offers’ then it’s the shit stand lower at the North end. Great, fill yer boots and get folk in there at special rates - but leave the rest of the ground alone. Like asking why you should pay anymore for a meal out whether you go to mcDonalds or the Box Tree. It's a way of making it affordable for those who struggle so they can still go to the games. What wrong with that? Almost every club does it for the same reason. Any business that sets its financial model..what it charges..aimed at the poorest 1 or 2% of its customer base is going to struggle , especially when all its competitors aim theirs at the other 98%. This clubs always done a lot of charity work, but I didnt realise it was actually a charity! 
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ram on Mar 20, 2024 12:05:31 GMT 1
Poverty is subjective.Inflation Sunak and his cronies keep telling us it is coming down{When it was them that put it up to 15% in the first place}. Not in my house it isn,t! I am now paying more for electricity than I was for Gas/electric before,my car insurance is now over £ 1000 per annum, I need it for possible emergency,or to go to the doctors {assuming I can get an appointment} Rent up,council tax up etc,. I judge inflation on the prices I pay at the supermarket i.e. Weetabix £8 a box,Butter £7 a tub and bread £ 1.40 a loaf.Incidentally the weetabix they proudly claim is " All British wheat" FA to do with Ukraine!
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 12:18:56 GMT 1
Like asking why you should pay anymore for a meal out whether you go to mcDonalds or the Box Tree. It's a way of making it affordable for those who struggle so they can still go to the games. What wrong with that? Almost every club does it for the same reason. Any business that sets its financial model..what it charges..aimed at the poorest 1 or 2% of its customer base is going to struggle , especially when all its competitors aim theirs at the other 98%. This clubs always done a lot of charity work, but I didnt realise it was actually a charity! Im sure you think youre making a good one, but youre right I dont know what it is. You seem to think Im naive for not thinking a business should aim their prices at a tiny amount of their custom base. Do you think HTFC is a charity ? Serious question? |
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Post by ambryboy on Mar 20, 2024 12:20:58 GMT 1
Poverty is subjective.Inflation Sunak and his cronies keep telling us it is coming down{When it was them that put it up to 15% in the first place}. Not in my house it isn,t! I am now paying more for electricity than I was for Gas/electric before,my car insurance is now over £ 1000 per annum, I need it for possible emergency,or to go to the doctors {assuming I can get an appointment} Rent up,council tax up etc,. I judge inflation on the prices I pay at the supermarket i.e. Weetabix £8 a box,Butter £7 a tub and bread £ 1.40 a loaf.Incidentally the weetabix they proudly claim is " All British wheat" FA to do with Ukraine! They keep mucking about with the 'basket of goods' used to assess price changes to artificially manage the inflation figure. Recent additions include e-bikes, security or surveillance cameras - yeah coz we all buy those every week at Aldi don't we? The CPI doesn't even include housing costs which would require us all to live rough somewhere (with our e-bike and security camaras) to achieve today's 3.4% inflation figure. It's just governmental bollocks. |
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Post by Sio on Mar 20, 2024 12:48:54 GMT 1
we have had it good for a long time , and I do get lots of people cannot afford a big increase, say they go for £100.00 and max 15000 take it up then that's £ 1.5m extra revenue ,suppose they then have to pay vat etc so leaves just over a million in the grand scheme of things will that make any difference to how the club is run/ buys players? also to some effect less revenue on catering and drinks during the season would counteract that , if KN and his marketing men have any sense they will make the gesture of keeping any increase to a minimum or none at all - but then i'm not sure sense ever comes in to any equation where football is concerned The revenue needs to increase in many ways not just season ticket sales. - Season tickets will go up to what extent may depend on the last 8 results but honestly there is a big argument that in L1 the ticket prices might actually be higher rather than lower than in the Championship, due to massive reduction in revenue in L1. I expect around the £350.00 mark and some nice little add ons includes. - Merch the club shop and product offering will improve in the summer so an increase in revenue will be expected. - The stadium, this is the biggest one and once sorted and HTAFC have control then we can have a better revenue from the match day sales, also expect a lot of concerts booked during the summers once we have ownership sorted including some big name artists. I think we will look to try and create a kind of Piece Hall type Summer program with 4-6weeks worth of gigs and one stage set up, this will more the likely be summer 2025. - Around the ground, increasing the matchday experience with a bar / location to go before and after games. - Sponsorship / Advertising oppertunities, expect some bigger names to be introduced to HTAFC with more investment, could even see some cross Atlantic joint sponsorships with HTAFC and Sac Rep to increase the global reach. The club are working on a lot behind the scenes to increase revenue in all areas and the season tickets is one area but not the only one and they all add up so say 1 million on season tickets as above, and then add all the other parts in we could be looking at a significant increase in revenue allowing more to be spent on the team as we look to challenge at the top end of the Championship in future seasons. It will be a lot easier to acheive everything if we can finish the final 8 games in a good way, but even in L1 we will be fine jsut got to hope we stay up this season to see the real plans and ideas come the summer. You usually spout a lot of nonsense but I'll bite: if the club increase tickets MORE upon relegation then they have seriously lost the plot |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Mar 20, 2024 12:54:17 GMT 1
The revenue needs to increase in many ways not just season ticket sales. - Season tickets will go up to what extent may depend on the last 8 results but honestly there is a big argument that in L1 the ticket prices might actually be higher rather than lower than in the Championship, due to massive reduction in revenue in L1. I expect around the £350.00 mark and some nice little add ons includes. - Merch the club shop and product offering will improve in the summer so an increase in revenue will be expected. - The stadium, this is the biggest one and once sorted and HTAFC have control then we can have a better revenue from the match day sales, also expect a lot of concerts booked during the summers once we have ownership sorted including some big name artists. I think we will look to try and create a kind of Piece Hall type Summer program with 4-6weeks worth of gigs and one stage set up, this will more the likely be summer 2025. - Around the ground, increasing the matchday experience with a bar / location to go before and after games. - Sponsorship / Advertising oppertunities, expect some bigger names to be introduced to HTAFC with more investment, could even see some cross Atlantic joint sponsorships with HTAFC and Sac Rep to increase the global reach. The club are working on a lot behind the scenes to increase revenue in all areas and the season tickets is one area but not the only one and they all add up so say 1 million on season tickets as above, and then add all the other parts in we could be looking at a significant increase in revenue allowing more to be spent on the team as we look to challenge at the top end of the Championship in future seasons. It will be a lot easier to acheive everything if we can finish the final 8 games in a good way, but even in L1 we will be fine jsut got to hope we stay up this season to see the real plans and ideas come the summer. You usually spout a lot of nonsense but I'll bite: if the club increase tickets MORE upon relegation then they have seriously lost the plot I didnt say there would be a bigger increase if in L1 but there is 100% an argument to say that the tickets would need to be higher due to massivly reduced revenue from the EFL and TV money, our wage bill would be cut but not as much as it would need to be, unless a number of players are sold. Its my understanding that prices for season tickets would be the same next season no matter which league we are in and this will be announced soon, we are maybe waiting for a couple of more positive results to come before announcing. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 13:05:13 GMT 1
The revenue needs to increase in many ways not just season ticket sales. - Season tickets will go up to what extent may depend on the last 8 results but honestly there is a big argument that in L1 the ticket prices might actually be higher rather than lower than in the Championship, due to massive reduction in revenue in L1. I expect around the £350.00 mark and some nice little add ons includes. - Merch the club shop and product offering will improve in the summer so an increase in revenue will be expected. - The stadium, this is the biggest one and once sorted and HTAFC have control then we can have a better revenue from the match day sales, also expect a lot of concerts booked during the summers once we have ownership sorted including some big name artists. I think we will look to try and create a kind of Piece Hall type Summer program with 4-6weeks worth of gigs and one stage set up, this will more the likely be summer 2025. - Around the ground, increasing the matchday experience with a bar / location to go before and after games. - Sponsorship / Advertising oppertunities, expect some bigger names to be introduced to HTAFC with more investment, could even see some cross Atlantic joint sponsorships with HTAFC and Sac Rep to increase the global reach. The club are working on a lot behind the scenes to increase revenue in all areas and the season tickets is one area but not the only one and they all add up so say 1 million on season tickets as above, and then add all the other parts in we could be looking at a significant increase in revenue allowing more to be spent on the team as we look to challenge at the top end of the Championship in future seasons. It will be a lot easier to acheive everything if we can finish the final 8 games in a good way, but even in L1 we will be fine jsut got to hope we stay up this season to see the real plans and ideas come the summer. You usually spout a lot of nonsense but I'll bite: if the club increase tickets MORE upon relegation then they have seriously lost the plot It'll be a huge problem for the club and when our fanbase being so used to paying such a low price will really come back to bite us on the arse. How do yo go down yet put prices up?? Thats a hard sell!! Yet the clubs income will drop massively..you lose about £7m in TV income immediately I think. What you get from the turnstiles become even more vital in League 1. You still have all the players and staff on their expensive wages though,,,although we'd probably sell some of the better ones..you still have all the same electric , travel, insurance etc etc etc etc costs to pay. If they delay putting the price up by a year, which might be an idea,,. they'll have to wait until the end of the season to announce prices and start selling them. |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Mar 20, 2024 13:20:06 GMT 1
You usually spout a lot of nonsense but I'll bite: if the club increase tickets MORE upon relegation then they have seriously lost the plot It'll be a huge problem for the club and when our fanbase being so used to paying such a low price will really come back to bite us on the arse. How do yo go down yet put prices up?? Thats a hard sell!! Yet the clubs income will drop massively..you lose about £7m in TV income immediately I think. What you get from the turnstiles become even more vital in League 1. You still have all the players and staff on their expensive wages though,,,although we'd probably sell some of the better ones..you still have all the same electric , travel, insurance etc etc etc etc costs to pay. If they delay putting the price up by a year, which might be an idea,,. they'll have to wait until the end of the season to announce prices and start selling them. Lets just say only a very small amount of time has been used to plan for L1 football next season, everyone is actually trying to focus on pulling together to stay in the Championship. The statements from Andre and KN this week are all about trying to shut down some of the nonesense on here and social media about, falling outs, power struggles, arguments its all made up and some poeple believe it. What everyone needs to believe and get behind is the team for the next 8 games to help us stay up the fans are needed more than ever now to get us over the line. All the rubbish negativity and romours needs to stop, everyone complaining about not going for it away at Rotherham when we had 10 men I hope we stay up by 1 point and Andre is proved correct, its a point gained and we move on to Coventry who we can beat at home and we should have a little more fredom to play against them. Season ticket prices will be announced at a time when it will not just be another thing to complain and get down about, right now its about being positive and thinking about how to get the 3 plus wins required. |
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Post by mosher on Mar 20, 2024 13:54:12 GMT 1
Poverty is subjective.Inflation Sunak and his cronies keep telling us it is coming down{When it was them that put it up to 15% in the first place}. Not in my house it isn,t! I am now paying more for electricity than I was for Gas/electric before,my car insurance is now over £ 1000 per annum, I need it for possible emergency,or to go to the doctors {assuming I can get an appointment} Rent up,council tax up etc,. I judge inflation on the prices I pay at the supermarket i.e. Weetabix £8 a box,Butter £7 a tub and bread £ 1.40 a loaf.Incidentally the weetabix they proudly claim is " All British wheat" FA to do with Ukraine! This. According to latest guidelines apparently I'm considered in poverty; no smartphone of my own, no internet access at home, no car, no owned home, choose between heat and food occasionally, have to borrow quite often at the end of a month, have been tempted (although didn't) to use a food bank, sold (old) tech to raise funds, also taken a second job previously to make ends meet. But I've NEVER thought I was in poverty, I reserve that for my (currently) homeless mate who's now living in a B&B after being repoed, and people in the same boat as him. |
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Post by Ginger Ogre on Mar 20, 2024 13:54:44 GMT 1
we have had it good for a long time , and I do get lots of people cannot afford a big increase, say they go for £100.00 and max 15000 take it up then that's £ 1.5m extra revenue ,suppose they then have to pay vat etc so leaves just over a million in the grand scheme of things will that make any difference to how the club is run/ buys players? also to some effect less revenue on catering and drinks during the season would counteract that , if KN and his marketing men have any sense they will make the gesture of keeping any increase to a minimum or none at all - but then i'm not sure sense ever comes in to any equation where football is concerned The revenue needs to increase in many ways not just season ticket sales. - Season tickets will go up to what extent may depend on the last 8 results but honestly there is a big argument that in L1 the ticket prices might actually be higher rather than lower than in the Championship, due to massive reduction in revenue in L1. I expect around the £350.00 mark and some nice little add ons includes. - Merch the club shop and product offering will improve in the summer so an increase in revenue will be expected. - The stadium, this is the biggest one and once sorted and HTAFC have control then we can have a better revenue from the match day sales, also expect a lot of concerts booked during the summers once we have ownership sorted including some big name artists. I think we will look to try and create a kind of Piece Hall type Summer program with 4-6weeks worth of gigs and one stage set up, this will more the likely be summer 2025. - Around the ground, increasing the matchday experience with a bar / location to go before and after games. - Sponsorship / Advertising oppertunities, expect some bigger names to be introduced to HTAFC with more investment, could even see some cross Atlantic joint sponsorships with HTAFC and Sac Rep to increase the global reach. The club are working on a lot behind the scenes to increase revenue in all areas and the season tickets is one area but not the only one and they all add up so say 1 million on season tickets as above, and then add all the other parts in we could be looking at a significant increase in revenue allowing more to be spent on the team as we look to challenge at the top end of the Championship in future seasons. It will be a lot easier to acheive everything if we can finish the final 8 games in a good way, but even in L1 we will be fine jsut got to hope we stay up this season to see the real plans and ideas come the summer. Thanks for the update, Kev. |
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Post by Orinoco on Mar 20, 2024 14:43:46 GMT 1
Sorry to say, with respect, that's a bit naive Captain. Consider this - - Kirlees is one of the lowest income regions in the country. - Poverty affects 1 in 3 households in Kirklees, with 1 in 4 households having an annual income of less than £10,000 and 1 in 5 older people classed as living in poverty. - our town centre attracts vaping shops, poundland, discounters etc, not Harvey Nicks, John Lewis, Waitrose, etc. What does this tell you? It tells me that other businesses, apart from Town, have already experienced low demand for their products and moved away, even after discounting their products, and others have decided that the profile of people and their income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they won't even take the effort to give it a go.
- easyJet, for an illustration, charge more for a segment of passengers who want more frills, but also have bargain basement fares for people who choose the very minimum, or can't afford more. We could easily revert to having different prices for different seating zones. You want a nice view in the upper, you pay more. You're happy to be behind the goals and get wet through when it rains, or stuck in a corner, you get the cheapest seats. Anyway, I won't convince you, I think you're set in your ways and opinions, but perhaps someone from the club's management team might see this thread and take some of these into consideration. I even wonder, completely speculatively, whether our departed director might possibly have been involved in such discussions and had a firm opinion which didn't agree with the newcomers? Good post 👍 , but don't forget the Turkish barbers and nail bars.. Football is no longer a working man's sport it's a luxury |
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Post by Jello Biafra on Mar 20, 2024 15:17:11 GMT 1
Anyone got the figures for the amount of ST holders pre 2016 (Hoyle’s first reduction year) and what they’ve been in subsequent seasons? In the Premier seasons the ST revenue was virtually irrelevant as an income source, so they kept the price down and filled the place. It’s got to the point in the Championship now that this is increasingly the case. To afford the better quality players, especially if using the British market, then the money has to come from either a hugely increased commercial operation, or straight from Nagle’s pocket. Wagner recruited brilliantly from the German second tier, but it still cost Hoyle a few £M. Luckily (or so Hoyle thought) the Prem money rolled in to offset his (comparatively modest) outlay - despite it all going tits-up in the end. The bottom line, as far as I can see, is that increasing the cost of STs will only result in lower attendances, which will negate any potential to generate increased concession income once the stadium is under Nagle’s control. Also, on another point that Tory Boy Slapps and his Affluent Acolytes are pushing, why on Earth should you pay more depending on where you sit? There was always a bit of a surcharge on seats when Leeds Road was terracing on 3 sides, but it was the same price to stand anywhere you liked. Clibbens made a right fucking mess with pricing, something which Hoyle should be credited with binning off (along with Clibbens) as soon as he could. If anywhere in the ground is ideal for ‘special offers’ then it’s the shit stand lower at the North end. Great, fill yer boots and get folk in there at special rates - but leave the rest of the ground alone. It's a way of making it affordable for those who struggle so they can still go to the games. What wrong with that? Almost every club does it for the same reason. Any business that sets its financial model..what it charges..aimed at the poorest 1 or 2% of its customer base is going to struggle , especially when all its competitors aim theirs at the other 98%. This clubs always done a lot of charity work, but I didnt realise it was actually a charity! No it’s not. What it’s really like is being asked to pay more for a window seat than a seat near the ketchup dispenser for the same meal in the same McDonalds at the same time. You keep banging on that Town should be charging the ‘going rate’ to be competitive, when the reality is that an extra potential £500k-£1m from ticket sales will be relatively negligible unless supplemented by a huge increase in investment from either Nagle’s wallet or significantly increased commercial revenue. To be honest, the latter is crucial as it’s that that holds the key to how much Nagle can spend on top. Surely it’s better to keep the ground fuller to generate more concession revenue from the larger attendances than to have 11k rattling around in there again and only sell half a dozen tepid pies at half time? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 15:21:18 GMT 1
Good post 👍 , but don't forget the Turkish barbers and nail bars.. Football is no longer a working man's sport it's a luxury Football has always been a luxury attended almost entirely by people who work. Nothing has changed in that at all, other than its more expensive..and even though its more expensive more people decide its a luxury they want to buy than almost ever before. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 15:39:30 GMT 1
Like asking why you should pay anymore for a meal out whether you go to mcDonalds or the Box Tree. It's a way of making it affordable for those who struggle so they can still go to the games. What wrong with that? Almost every club does it for the same reason. Any business that sets its financial model..what it charges..aimed at the poorest 1 or 2% of its customer base is going to struggle , especially when all its competitors aim theirs at the other 98%. This clubs always done a lot of charity work, but I didnt realise it was actually a charity! No it’s not. What it’s really like is being asked to pay more for a window seat than a seat near the ketchup dispenser for the same meal in the same McDonalds at the same time. You keep banging on that Town should be charging the ‘going rate’ to be competitive, when the reality is that an extra potential £500k-£1m from ticket sales will be relatively negligible unless supplemented by a huge increase in investment from either Nagle’s wallet or significantly increased commercial revenue. To be honest, the latter is crucial as it’s that that holds the key to how much Nagle can spend on top. Surely it’s better to keep the ground fuller to generate more concession revenue from the larger attendances than to have 11k rattling around in there again and only sell half a dozen tepid pies at half time? I agree it wont make all the difference, but it will help. Its just a principle that we the fans should also do our bit...we shouldnt expect one individual to carry all the expense just so we can pay half the going rate , for no obvious reason.. Is it better at Bradford? Theirs are even cheaper than ours and they have about 15000 season card holders...not dissimilar to us. Each game many dont attend because at about £8 a game, its no great financial loss to not use your ticket. So the actual attendance is nothing like the gate figure they give out...( same at most clubs, us included, but not at the scale the chickens have) Their 'gate figure' the other night was 17500...if you look at the pictures, I doubt there was 7000 there. So you dont actually get that concession revenue like you imagine you would..because thousands of fans arent there to buy pies and programmes. And although they can consider themselves the best supported club in the division ( in terms of gate figure anyway ) , their income is only average..so its no surprise they usually finish mid table and have been stuck there for years. The counter argument is- If their tickets were more expensive, people would be less likely to think, Ah fuck it, its raining...or w'ere only playing Sutton...I cant be arsed going today. They'd be more likely to be there to buy the pie and programme because it wastes more money to not go. And a lot of those who were put off buying the SC because it was a little more expensive would still cherry pick their games and pay on the door...and you dont have to go to many of them before youre paying getting on for a season card anyway. Especially if the teams doing well. So I dont really get this argument that you make the same money by making it cheaper..I dont think you would at all overall. |
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 20, 2024 16:03:12 GMT 1
Good post 👍 , but don't forget the Turkish barbers and nail bars.. Football is no longer a working man's sport it's a luxury Indeed...
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 20, 2024 16:47:09 GMT 1
Im sure you think youre making a good one, but youre right I dont know what it is. You seem to think Im naive for not thinking a business should aim their prices at a tiny amount of their custom base. Do you think HTFC is a charity ? Serious question?
I didn't write that:
- we are a charity and should price our product accordingly.
- we should price the product to accommodate the poorest 2%.
I did write that:
- other businesses in the area have already experienced low demand for their products in the town and moved away.
- potential entrants have decided that the profile of people / income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they stay away.
- we should re-introduce tiered / zonal pricing.
- we should extend childrens' / family pricing from under 11s to 16-18.
- we should consider very low cost, even free, seats for children in order to fill the stadium up.
"Im sure you think youre making a good one, but youre right I dont know what it is."
I made 5 good points, and you missed them all, hence the gif. You're welcome 😘
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2024 17:25:33 GMT 1
Im sure you think youre making a good one, but youre right I dont know what it is. You seem to think Im naive for not thinking a business should aim their prices at a tiny amount of their custom base. Do you think HTFC is a charity ? Serious question? I didn't write that: - we are a charity and should price our product accordingly. - we should price the product to accommodate the poorest 2%. I did write that: - other businesses in the area have already experienced low demand for their products in the town and moved away. - potential entrants have decided that the profile of people / income in the town won't allow them to be profitable, so they stay away. - we should re-introduce tiered / zonal pricing. - we should extend childrens' / family pricing from under 11s to 16-18. - we should consider very low cost, even free, seats for children in order to fill the stadium up.
"Im sure you think youre making a good one, but youre right I dont know what it is."
I made 5 good points, and you missed them all, hence the gif. You're welcome 😘
Ive no idea what the gif was in aid of to be honest or why you thought it was necessary. I didnt miss anything you said..I just think youre mostly wrong. Ive said myself we should re-introduce tiered pricing. It makes sense. Free tickets for kids.. Dont we do that anyway?.. the north side of the Kilner is generally full of kids who I presume get in for nowt. Its difficult to do that for most of the stadium as there isnt the available seats. We could use the north stand lower though like we used to. No problem with that. But Huddersfield isnt this special, desolate and poverty stricken place youre making it out to be, that means Town fans, and Town fans alone, cant be expected to pay anything even approaching the going rate for championship football. Only a tiny amount of our fanbase couldn't afford the weekly equivalent of the price of a packet of crisps or half a pint that a £50 or £100 increase actually translates as ,,,thats if we were to go back to the prices we paid 8 years ago. So basing your entire pricing policy on that tiny amount, if they exist, is nonsense...what else are you trying to suggest if it isnt that??? |
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