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Post by desertstorm on Apr 21, 2024 10:12:36 GMT 1
Kevin has 100% the right intentions for the club and has/will put his money where his mouth is. His Achilles heel right now is the people who he’s trusting to make decisions on the day-to-day running of the club.
The writing has been on the wall for a good few seasons now. A clear lack of quality within the playing squad and a lack of investment. This started pre KN. As a club, our expectations of the playing squad have been that of overachievers. This club has lacked significant quality and failed to supplement overachievers with quality. All in favour of a system where we sign aspiring players, not of championship standard to then sell them once/if there stock rises. In time this model catches up with you. Particularly when the players you’re signing in sheer hope are nowhere near good enough or have the potential.
I don’t think questions need to be asked of KN, the problems we have are long documented. It requires a rebuild with the right people in key positions. It requires a shift in mentality, both in an off the field.
Coach after coach, manager after manager, failure after failure. Surely after so long you sit back, evaluate and see where the problems lay. Some of the so called ‘custodians’ of the club get off lightly.
Think back to the words of Stuart Webber - Wasn’t wrong was he?!
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Post by boooothy on Apr 21, 2024 10:17:21 GMT 1
There’s a massive difference between being a bad owner like BlackpoolReading etc have had and an owner that makes bad decisions.
If choices are made for the right reason and they put their money up. What more can you possibly ask of the man at the top?
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Apr 21, 2024 10:33:45 GMT 1
Let's look at the key decisions to date: Appointing NW as f/t manager - MISTAKE. His strength over the last few years is to firefight struggling teams, where, in this league, there is noone better. However, he is not a tactician he motivates people - short term. Appointing DM - MISTAKE. He sucked any belief out of the players by basically telling them they had to defend for their lives every game as they weren't good enough to compete in this division. Keeping DM as long as he did - CORRECT. He knows we can't keep changing managers & once appointed, he had to give him a chance. I would have sacked him at the exact time he did, as I think he had the same thoughts as I had about the importance of that final sequence of games. Appointing AB - CORRECT. His CV is exactly what we wanted, an expert in coming in & improving teams straight away & has managed at a higher level. I must admit I've been really disappointed by him, especially his team selection & subs, however, I bet he can't believe how poor these players are, their basic ability must have shocked him. On top of these decisions, KN has done exactly what he said he would do, he provided his senior management team with a more than healthy budget at the last window. Has he been let down by Cartwright? Not sure yet, Balker, Radulovic & Healey need more time as they've come into a team so lacking in confidence & ability, it's not really fair to judge them in a few short months. Wasn't it Brian Clough who wrote a book which had a chapter headed "What chairmen know about football" & left the page blank? KN would, quite rightly, have been crucified if he'd interfered with footballing matters, he has trusted people to do this for them, &, to date the jury is out. Let's not forget though, KN brought a club in turmoil, which has been under-funded for years, has had 10 seasons out of 12 just managing to avoid relegation, which has had the worst goal difference in the entire EFL over the last 10 years, which contains a set of players that currently has maybe 4 or 5 who are genuine Championship quality & who's confidence is lower than a snake's bollocks, as they are used to losing. There is no way in hell anyone can judge KN now as the mess he has inherited cannot be solved in 1 season. All we can hope is that he is in for the long run, & his track record in life suggests that if he sticks with us, he will succeed. Appointing a manager with no experience of English football and with two wins in eleven is CORRECT? Christ. How bad would AB have to be for it to be a mistake?😂 David Wagner had no experience of English football & what a disaster that was. The fact that it isn't working out for AB at the moment does not detract from the point that he was a great choice, at the time. I doubt, without looking back, that many on here thought he was the wrong appointment, I think most us thought it was an appointment we could all get excited about & I can totally understand why he was appointed. AB, in theory, ticks the boxes required - he has historical success at turning clubs round & at the level he has managed at before, would have been the perfect appointment to take us to where we want to be in the Premier League. If we had gone with a short term appointment just to keep us up, we'd have to start the whole process again &, still with no guarantee that an experienced Championship manager would have succeeded. I have serious doubts about the appointment now, though I would still give him a full pre-season, with at least some of his choice of players, but at the time, I think it was the right choice. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Apr 21, 2024 10:38:20 GMT 1
Don’t say anything actions speak louder than words and keep it private, he’s the chairman. No other chairman does it in the top two divisions why is he. Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 21, 2024 10:42:48 GMT 1
Don’t say anything actions speak louder than words and keep it private, he’s the chairman. No other chairman does it in the top two divisions why is he. Id imagine he's devastated and absolutely fuming. Hopefully he's busy looking for a quality and experienced DoF because that's where he needs to start. Imagine forking out £4M in January to keep your club in the league and seeing not one of those signings on the pitch. Imagine hiring a top European coach and seeing him do a worse job than the academy manager did as caretaker. Not to mention the rest of the shit show Edwards and Cartwright have delivered. Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. I’m not sure about Edwards. KN saw something in him from a business perspective, but how much real control does he have? He feels like he’s just a figurehead for the club, chosen because KN saw what he did in the US, and his links to the English game. Cartwright on the other hand. I only looked at his wiki page last night. It doesn’t strike you as someone with a respected standing in the game. If he’s as bad as folk make out, he’s obviously one of those who talks a good game and can bullshit his way through an embellished CV at an interview. Here’s the link, if anyone hasn’t looked at this before, then make your own judgment. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cartwright |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 21, 2024 10:45:35 GMT 1
Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? |
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Post by royrace on Apr 21, 2024 10:48:57 GMT 1
Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. I agree, however he did manage to keep us in the league under difficult circumstances with the ownership... Yes I know that was all his fault too. And I agree the extraction of money has left a very bad taste. Won't stop him being gutted when we're relegated though. He handed the new owner a championship club and they've undone 15 years of blood sweat tears and many millions in their first season. Back where we started in 2008. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 21, 2024 10:53:37 GMT 1
Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? Nagle owes him if we get promoted to the Premier League. No danger of Hoyle ever seeing that money. |
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Post by royrace on Apr 21, 2024 10:54:06 GMT 1
Id imagine he's devastated and absolutely fuming. Hopefully he's busy looking for a quality and experienced DoF because that's where he needs to start. Imagine forking out £4M in January to keep your club in the league and seeing not one of those signings on the pitch. Imagine hiring a top European coach and seeing him do a worse job than the academy manager did as caretaker. Not to mention the rest of the shit show Edwards and Cartwright have delivered. Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. I’m not sure about Edwards. KN saw something in him from a business perspective, but how much real control does he have? He feels like he’s just a figurehead for the club, chosen because KN saw what he did in the US, and his links to the English game. Cartwright on the other hand. I only looked at his wiki page last night. It doesn’t strike you as someone with a respected standing in the game. If he’s as bad as folk make out, he’s obviously one of those who talks a good game and can bullshit his way through an embellished CV at an interview. Here’s the link, if anyone hasn’t looked at this before, then make your own judgment. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_CartwrightNot much of a figurehead really, Mr Invisible. Talks a good game, very slick, not always a good thing imo. We can't judge Edwards though really as we don't see what he does. We can all see the footballing decisions though. I think he'll always be famed for his "position of strength" bollocks in that press conference. Was there a town fan on the planet that agreed with that statement at the time? Probably not. Idiots. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 21, 2024 10:57:51 GMT 1
How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? Nagle owes him if we get promoted to the Premier League. No danger of Hoyle ever seeing that money. With indexation it’ll probably be worth about £40 by that point… 😉 |
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Post by Mastercracker on Apr 21, 2024 11:02:28 GMT 1
Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? I’m sure he did. He’d run his own club for mostly 15 years. For clarity that’s circa £2.66m a year, probably less than a man of his wealth could have earned per annum from savings and investments. He had debts of £55m at one point, the fact he wrote off £40m at the end tells you how much he’d clawed back. Its to be hoped the same doesn’t happen when Brighton, Brentford and Middlesbroughs fan owners leave. |
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Post by heckyterrier66 on Apr 21, 2024 11:11:23 GMT 1
Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? £48 million to put the exact figure out there. |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 21, 2024 11:11:29 GMT 1
If Nagle is being rated, after putting in millions, what about rating the fans? Moan about every referee, every goal conceded, the club being in a mess, yet nobody says that we played a part. Using the clowns in Devon as an example but nit exclusively, pays nowt to the club all season, looking for free streams instead of Ifolliw, then complain about the standard of football. We all have a part to play in this poor scenario. Least of all Nagle, who has put more money in the club than the combined membership of DATM You can’t seriously be blaming the fans for this absolute shit show? The support is fantastic. The club don’t deserve it. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 21, 2024 11:13:54 GMT 1
Chairmen/women/owners are always going to be a convenient cat to kick for supporters.
Money has ruined football (& many other sports) when you look at the behaviours it’s introduced.
If the authorities actually had some balls and put proper sanctions in place for FFP and other things, these clubs would think twice.
As it stands, the clubs who abide by the rules are the losers. The ones who knowingly and wilfully break the rules are taking a punt, but also know there’s very little downside if they want to chuck their own money at it.
There will be many on here hoping that KN bankrolls us to the tune of tens of £m’s. That’s not football for me, it’s an ego driven pastime.
If he invests sensibly and within the rules he’ll get a lot of respect from me, but I suspect that won’t bring the success that many on here crave.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Apr 21, 2024 11:14:38 GMT 1
Appointing a manager with no experience of English football and with two wins in eleven is CORRECT? Christ. How bad would AB have to be for it to be a mistake?😂 David Wagner had no experience of English football & what a disaster that was. The fact that it isn't working out for AB at the moment does not detract from the point that he was a great choice, at the time. I doubt, without looking back, that many on here thought he was the wrong appointment, I think most us thought it was an appointment we could all get excited about & I can totally understand why he was appointed. AB, in theory, ticks the boxes required - he has historical success at turning clubs round & at the level he has managed at before, would have been the perfect appointment to take us to where we want to be in the Premier League. If we had gone with a short term appointment just to keep us up, we'd have to start the whole process again &, still with no guarantee that an experienced Championship manager would have succeeded. I have serious doubts about the appointment now, though I would still give him a full pre-season, with at least some of his choice of players, but at the time, I think it was the right choice. Think to a man everyone thought AB was an excellent choice and a bit of a coup for the club. It just hasn’t worked out for him, I think he’s been stunned by how lacking in professionalism and ability this set of players is. Additionally despite claims of ‘the best January window in years’ it’s turned out to be an unmitigated disaster signing a combination of crocks, players from pub league’s and not signing a midfielder who can pass a ball more than 5 yards. I’ll be absolutely amazed if AB doesn’t resign within hours of relegation being confirmed. If we go down next week I can see Worthy being in charge at Ipswich. |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Apr 21, 2024 11:22:28 GMT 1
All this mess stems back to the Hoyle era when he failed to invest on quality when town were relegated from the premier league
Nagle and his team of clowns have als made some dreadful mistakes which will eventually cost him and the club dearly
He appointed Moore who was a big contributor in towns demise and he also took Port Vale down
To get rid of Warnock was a massive mistake and to see a ver successful Worthington hand over the reigns to a foreign manager who knew nothing about both players and club was the begining of the end
Town need to get rid of the shit no hopers and rebuild with players wanting to play for the club
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 21, 2024 11:23:44 GMT 1
All this mess stems back to the Hoyle era when he failed to invest on quality when town were relegated from the premier league Nagle and his team of clowns have als made some dreadful mistakes which will eventually cost him and the club dearly He appointed Moore who was a big contributor in towns demise and he also took Port Vale down To get rid of Warnock was a massive mistake and to see Worthington hand over the reigns to a foreign manager who knew nothing about both players and club was the begining of the end Town need to get rid of the shit no hopers and rebuild with players wanting to play for the club Has your IFollow subscription arrived yet? 😉 |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Apr 21, 2024 11:25:21 GMT 1
All this mess stems back to the Hoyle era when he failed to invest on quality when town were relegated from the premier league Nagle and his team of clowns have als made some dreadful mistakes which will eventually cost him and the club dearly He appointed Moore who was a big contributor in towns demise and he also took Port Vale down To get rid of Warnock was a massive mistake and to see Worthington hand over the reigns to a foreign manager who knew nothing about both players and club was the begining of the end Town need to get rid of the shit no hopers and rebuild with players wanting to play for the club Has your IFollow subscription arrived yet? 😉 Do you actually think its woth £10 to watch such shite |
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Apr 21, 2024 11:32:28 GMT 1
Kevin has 100% the right intentions for the club and has/will put his money where his mouth is. His Achilles heel right now is the people who he’s trusting to make decisions on the day-to-day running of the club. The writing has been on the wall for a good few seasons now. A clear lack of quality within the playing squad and a lack of investment. This started pre KN. As a club, our expectations of the playing squad have been that of overachievers. This club has lacked significant quality and failed to supplement overachievers with quality. All in favour of a system where we sign aspiring players, not of championship standard to then sell them once/if there stock rises. In time this model catches up with you. Particularly when the players you’re signing in sheer hope are nowhere near good enough or have the potential. I don’t think questions need to be asked of KN, the problems we have are long documented. It requires a rebuild with the right people in key positions. It requires a shift in mentality, both in an off the field. Coach after coach, manager after manager, failure after failure. Surely after so long you sit back, evaluate and see where the problems lay. Some of the so called ‘custodians’ of the club get off lightly. Think back to the words of Stuart Webber - Wasn’t wrong was he?! Hope you are right. He certainly doesn’t look the kind of bloke to give up so quickly. That shift in mentality has been sorely needed since we returned to this division. Certainly more hopeful of a proper rebuild under Nagle than if we’d have gone down before he pitched up. |
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Post by irverino on Apr 21, 2024 11:32:47 GMT 1
poor response from Nagle after yesterday after all the hype building up the game during the week, lets hope the news later in the week is that both Edwards and Cartwright have left the building. Was he & Dave at the game in Sacramento?.......Anyone thinking KN could call it a day & put the sale sign up at Town? |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 21, 2024 11:34:34 GMT 1
All this mess stems back to the Hoyle era when he failed to invest on quality when town were relegated from the premier league Nagle and his team of clowns have als made some dreadful mistakes which will eventually cost him and the club dearly He appointed Moore who was a big contributor in towns demise and he also took Port Vale down To get rid of Warnock was a massive mistake and to see a ver successful Worthington hand over the reigns to a foreign manager who knew nothing about both players and club was the begining of the end Town need to get rid of the shit no hopers and rebuild with players wanting to play for the club Phil Hodgkinson was in charge when we came down, so it was up to him to invest in quality. |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Apr 21, 2024 11:36:30 GMT 1
poor response from Nagle after yesterday after all the hype building up the game during the week, lets hope the news later in the week is that both Edwards and Cartwright have left the building. Was he & Dave at the game in Sacramento?.......Anyone thinking KN could call it a day & put the sale sign up at Town? The impression KN gives off is definitely not being a quitter. |
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Post by rockwall on Apr 21, 2024 11:36:50 GMT 1
poor response from Nagle after yesterday after all the hype building up the game during the week, lets hope the news later in the week is that both Edwards and Cartwright have left the building. Any other form of response and he would have got pelters. He can't win can he? If he didn't put anything at all, he would get criticised for not communicating. |
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ldr
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ldr on Apr 21, 2024 11:36:52 GMT 1
Hoyle must also be gutted. I keep thinking how hard it was to get out of league one, all that time, all the work last season to perform a miracle only for those two arrogant fuckwits to come along and destroy it all. Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. Entitled argument incoming…🤪 |
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ram
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Post by ram on Apr 21, 2024 11:37:57 GMT 1
Clearly a case of The Emporers New Clothes. He trusted his "advisors" to run the Club for him in his absence,they have been taking the piss! Time to go!  |
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Post by Mastercracker on Apr 21, 2024 11:37:57 GMT 1
Really? The owner with multiple lifetimes of money who spent the last 4 years of his involvement clawing back as much of his wealth as he could, at the complete detriment of his own club? I can’t name you any other fan owner of other clubs who has behaved in this manner. Entitled argument incoming…🤪 I’m fully expecting the wrath of Slapps and Pete. |
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Post by royrace on Apr 21, 2024 11:41:17 GMT 1
How much truth is there in the suggestion he wrote off £40m when KN sold the club? £48 million to put the exact figure out there. The cost of owning a football club for 15 years, a bargain really and what he expected from the outset. |
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Post by rockwall on Apr 21, 2024 12:01:34 GMT 1
£48 million to put the exact figure out there. The cost of owning a football club for 15 years, a bargain really and what he expected from the outset. 48m too much when it was his 'hobby' and 'never wanted any of it back'. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 21, 2024 12:04:28 GMT 1
The cost of owning a football club for 15 years, a bargain really and what he expected from the outset. 48m too much when it was his 'hobby' and 'never wanted any of it back'. Be interesting to see of Nagle writes the debts off we'll inevitably accrue under his tenure. |
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Post by ponteterrier on Apr 21, 2024 12:17:46 GMT 1
I love his enthusiasm and willingness to take us forward, however it's apparent to everyone he had no idea what he was letting himself in for. I hope for his sake he and his team that the club is turned around.
He is largely not at fault for this season, management appointments, yes but the common theme with all our recent managers is how shit the team is. Neil was the perfect short term shot in the arm to get us out of the shit but he wasn't going to continue into the new season pulling rabits out of the hat. The quality of players into the club has been largely crap for years. The feeling I got was we were buying bargin basement or injury prone fixer uppers as well as buying "project players" as if we were never in a relegation scrap, year in, year out.the latter players would have been okay if we were a mid table side and we had time and the points on the board to give them the development time in senior games.
I believe we were restricted in the summer in regards to signings due to how the club was sold so Nagle has only had one window in which to bring in players. To be fair to him, he put his money where his mouth was, it's just that it appears that the money wasn't well spent.
We've ridden our luck for most of time in the championship and as a club we've never seemed to learn our lesson.
Next season in league one will be a test of Nagles mettle. I suspect/hope there's changes and replacements at senior level, the squad needs gutting, a clear philosophy and recruitment plan that is stuck to.
Maybe that's why AB was brought in for, with an eye for next season and with a summer of building/recruitment. I think the problem may be that he was brought in too early, safety wasn't assured and maybe the team having a third manager in a year killed off their motivation/morale/whatever it was.
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