|
|
Post by mosher on May 31, 2024 8:11:25 GMT 1
t obe fair, if we get promoted to the prem , he can have it . As it means the club has being on an upward journey again . To be unfair, his loading of future debt on the club because he couldn't find a buyer capable of satisfying his perceived value caused us problems before. It seems vaguely ridiculous. If I own a house that is attracting monthly rental of £700, that I desperately want to get rid of and think its worth £300k but have received no offers anywhere close to that....BUT....I'll sell it to you for (what I believe is) a cut-down £150k, and if over the next few years you successfully update and upscale the house to such a level that its attracting monthly rent of £1500, then you give me £125k...fair? No, not fair! You don't buy the price of future potential when you're purchasing a business (or a house), you buy at TODAY's value.Not always the case when it comes to business. That's why all those dotcom investors went bust in the US; they invested in a potential that never arose. I'm not disagreeing with your point about it seeming ridiculous but it DOES happen. |
|
Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 23,999 
|
Post by Tinpot on May 31, 2024 8:21:55 GMT 1
Success on the pitch matters, of course it does. And if we finish bottom half next season there will understandably be a lot of discontent among the fan base.
BUT, even though on the itch we've had a shit start, I'm still happy with Kev & Co. The communication is largely excellent, and whilst there have been mistakes (calling out individual fans in a previous diary probably shouldn't happen again, but it was hilarious!), the fact they've immersed themselves into the area, made a genuine effort to understand the culture and properly bought into the project and the people - to me that's the most important thing.
Yes, there will always be clubs that are more successful on the pitch. So be it. I'd genuinely be happier as a supporter of a non-league club, than a Man City fan because although "Citeh" are possibly the best football team that has ever existed, a lot of it looks from where I'm sat as being a bit corporate and soulless. This is my club and it's being led by someone who cares about it as a community asset, not just a product.
For the most part, I'd like more of the same please Kev. But maybe caveat that with the first 5 words I made in this post next!
|
|
irverino
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,963
Member is Online
|
Post by irverino on May 31, 2024 8:45:57 GMT 1
In life we all make mistakes But why oh why do some on here only cling to the negatives?? Yes deano made a few mistakes in the end,,but to just forget all the good he has done makes no sense to me Playoffs 3 years on the bounce before promotion to the Championship and a very long stint there with a couple of seasons in the Premier league!!...isn't that something to remember and feel good about?? Someone can't be classed as the pantomime villain just because they got a couple of things wrong after years of being in the top 2 divisions Kev has started with mistakes yet everyone is willing to give him a chance and think the sun shines out of his arse He comes across as a genuine fellow who hopefully will start to get things right...But at the moment he's achieved nothing but a relegation!! Funny how people's minds work Lets hope KN doesn't have to suffer serious illness & a pandemic......On that question who runs the show if Kev became incapacitated, MC & JE? |
|
|
|
Post by detox on May 31, 2024 8:47:23 GMT 1
I agree with many of your points but for the sake of balance ... They are not explicit but the latest accounts suggest that Nagle has made a part payment of Hoyle's loans with no mention of write offs. There is an outstanding figure of c£25m which appears attributable to Hoyle so if he does receive a further £15m his loss on his ownership of the club will be a lot less than £30m. I'll take your word for that. I hope youre right because he doesnt deserve to have lost so much money after what he did for the club and the journey he took us on. 2 years ago hoyles personal wealth was reported at £284m, that's up from £150m ..I suppose though if he hadn't said " I don't expect to get any of my money back" and instead been honest and said " I will expect to get all my money back", nobody would have complained. But as I've said on numerous occasions he should have taken some of the PL money when he had chance. Instead his delay has crippled the club. You have your opinion, which I respect of course, and I have mine. We move on though with KN now trying to repair the damage. |
|
|
|
Post by workshyfop on May 31, 2024 8:50:20 GMT 1
Next time, please ask:
Favourite Beatles album?
Top 5 Beatles songs?
Favourite Beatle?
Judgement will be made on those answers. Let the amateur psychoanalysis begin …
Thanks! 😁
|
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 9:04:07 GMT 1
In all seriousness, how many people on here would write off £50m? I think if I was as well off (I won't say rich, not by today's football standards) as DH is then yes I'd like to believe I would. But nobody knows until they're in that situation, especially given his personal circumstances changing as they did. I've been near-death so I know first-hand how it can change your outlook, for good or bad. I certainly wouldn't. It's a hell of a lot of money. |
|
ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,875
|
Post by ambryboy on May 31, 2024 9:04:14 GMT 1
Yes, one holds the rank of Captain one resides in Portugal  I find it incredible that Phil is not seen as the responsible, but losing, 'player' in this game of brinkmanship. It tarnish's Hoyle image as a gambler with the club's image, but we should remember the motive of 'busted flush' Phil, who was looking for an earner! I find it incredible that Hoyle for all of his business acumen actively sought out someone to sell the club to who clearly didn't have the finances to run a scond tier football team. Then again we can work out the real reasons behind that move. |
|
|
|
Post by huddshroom on May 31, 2024 9:24:21 GMT 1
Be nice if it was on Youtube so could play it at a faster speed
|
|
|
|
Post by huddshroom on May 31, 2024 9:50:08 GMT 1
Be nice if it was on Youtube so could play it at a faster speed Never mind you can do it on twitter too, just click the sittings icon then playback speed |
|
|
|
Post by Junior & Onuora on May 31, 2024 9:52:32 GMT 1
I agree with many of your points but for the sake of balance ... They are not explicit but the latest accounts suggest that Nagle has made a part payment of Hoyle's loans with no mention of write offs. There is an outstanding figure of c£25m which appears attributable to Hoyle so if he does receive a further £15m his loss on his ownership of the club will be a lot less than £30m. I'll take your word for that. I hope youre right because he doesnt deserve to have lost so much money after what he did for the club and the journey he took us on. If I buy a train set, enjoy it for a decade, then sell my train set to my idiot mate who wrecks it, then gives it me back in pieces, should I expect Hornby to give me a full refund? |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on May 31, 2024 10:00:19 GMT 1
I have a strong, balanced, opinion (which has been well documented on here) on the DH era but it is over. Mr Nagle is happy with the deal he struck, he has got to grips with what he picked up and he has a plan for the future development of the club and infrastructure.
My opinion on the past won't change but it is the past and I, now, don't see it necessarily influencing our future. As such it is time to look to that future and the next phase of the Nagle era. The initial phase wasn't great but I genuinely hope for better going forward.
Line drawn, move on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2024 10:06:33 GMT 1
I'll take your word for that. I hope youre right because he doesnt deserve to have lost so much money after what he did for the club and the journey he took us on. 2 years ago hoyles personal wealth was reported at £284m, that's up from £150m ..I suppose though if he hadn't said " I don't expect to get any of my money back" and instead been honest and said " I will expect to get all my money back", nobody would have complained. But as I've said on numerous occasions he should have taken some of the PL money when he had chance. Instead his delay has crippled the club. You have your opinion, which I respect of course, and I have mine. We move on though with KN now trying to repair the damage. You think he wasnt being honest when he said 'I don't expect to get my money back"? The only way that was ever going to be possible was if we got to the prem and I dont know about you but I didnt ever expect that to happen, and I doubt he did either. I wouldn't pay much attention to 'reports' of what someone's wealth is. The much heralded Sunday Times Rich List also thought he owned all of Card Factory when it was sold. I used to know someone else who appeared in that and the figure they gave for him was so far out ( inflated ) he demanded and got a retraction because he thought it would negatively effect his future dealings and relationship with employees. I agree he should have taken some of the PL money when he had the chance ( though the complaining would have been immense even if he'd said thats what he'd do ) but unless he could have known he was going to get seriously ill and would want to move on as a result, how could he have known to? But that didnt cripple the club. Too many bad player and manager choices is whats done for us...something thats carried on under Nagle so far. If we can start getting some right ( hoping Duff is the start of that ) then who knows, we might go on a similarly brilliant journey that Hoyle took us on. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2024 10:10:46 GMT 1
I'll take your word for that. I hope youre right because he doesnt deserve to have lost so much money after what he did for the club and the journey he took us on. If I buy a train set, enjoy it for a decade, then sell my train set to my idiot mate who wrecks it, then gives it me back in pieces, should I expect Hornby to give me a full refund? If your parents buy you a train set and you have a brilliant time playing with it and its so much more fun than you thought it would be,, but then your dad accidentally stands on it and breaks it, how long should you tantrum about how unfair that is before you move on? |
|
|
|
Post by detox on May 31, 2024 10:45:43 GMT 1
2 years ago hoyles personal wealth was reported at £284m, that's up from £150m ..I suppose though if he hadn't said " I don't expect to get any of my money back" and instead been honest and said " I will expect to get all my money back", nobody would have complained. But as I've said on numerous occasions he should have taken some of the PL money when he had chance. Instead his delay has crippled the club. You have your opinion, which I respect of course, and I have mine. We move on though with KN now trying to repair the damage. You think he wasnt being honest when he said 'I don't expect to get my money back"? The only way that was ever going to be possible was if we got to the prem and I dont know about you but I didnt ever expect that to happen, and I doubt he did either. I wouldn't pay much attention to 'reports' of what someone's wealth is. The much heralded Sunday Times Rich List also thought he owned all of Card Factory when it was sold. I used to know someone else who appeared in that and the figure they gave for him was so far out ( inflated ) he demanded and got a retraction because he thought it would negatively effect his future dealings and relationship with employees. I agree he should have taken some of the PL money when he had the chance ( though the complaining would have been immense even if he'd said thats what he'd do ) but unless he could have known he was going to get seriously ill and would want to move on as a result, how could he have known to? But that didnt cripple the club. Too many bad player and manager choices is whats done for us...something thats carried on under Nagle so far. If we can start getting some right ( hoping Duff is the start of that ) then who knows, we might go on a similarly brilliant journey that Hoyle took us on. I disagree with you, and your assumptions. I also want the last word.👍😂 |
|
irverino
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,963
Member is Online
|
Post by irverino on May 31, 2024 10:55:09 GMT 1
2 years ago hoyles personal wealth was reported at £284m, that's up from £150m ..I suppose though if he hadn't said " I don't expect to get any of my money back" and instead been honest and said " I will expect to get all my money back", nobody would have complained. But as I've said on numerous occasions he should have taken some of the PL money when he had chance. Instead his delay has crippled the club. You have your opinion, which I respect of course, and I have mine. We move on though with KN now trying to repair the damage. You think he wasnt being honest when he said 'I don't expect to get my money back"? The only way that was ever going to be possible was if we got to the prem and I dont know about you but I didnt ever expect that to happen, and I doubt he did either. I wouldn't pay much attention to 'reports' of what someone's wealth is. The much heralded Sunday Times Rich List also thought he owned all of Card Factory when it was sold. I used to know someone else who appeared in that and the figure they gave for him was so far out ( inflated ) he demanded and got a retraction because he thought it would negatively effect his future dealings and relationship with employees. I agree he should have taken some of the PL money when he had the chance ( though the complaining would have been immense even if he'd said thats what he'd do ) but unless he could have known he was going to get seriously ill and would want to move on as a result, how could he have known to? But that didnt cripple the club. Too many bad player and manager choices is whats done for us...something thats carried on under Nagle so far. If we can start getting some right ( hoping Duff is the start of that ) then who knows, we might go on a similarly brilliant journey that Hoyle took us on. You're right about the CF sale money it didn't all go to the Hoyles, one of the directors got around £50M, at the time they didn't even think a reasonable offer would be made & were quite happy to continue if one wasn't. Dean said 'If Blackpool, Barnsley, Bradford & Hull can get to the PL then why can't we', true, but deep down it was a pipe dream & always going to take a huge slice of luck/freak season.......Kev like Dean is going to find out that league one is no pushover, although the teams back then included the likes of Norwich, Brighton, Saints, L33ds, Charlton & Wendies who pipped us to autos along with Millwall & Peterboro that beat us in both play offs. |
|
|
|
Post by Sio on May 31, 2024 11:04:26 GMT 1
If I buy a train set, enjoy it for a decade, then sell my train set to my idiot mate who wrecks it, then gives it me back in pieces, should I expect Hornby to give me a full refund? If your parents buy you a train set and you have a brilliant time playing with it and its so much more fun than you thought it would be,, but then your dad accidentally stands on it and breaks it, how long should you tantrum about how unfair that is before you move on? Dean is your dad? Now everything makes sense! |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2024 11:12:57 GMT 1
You think he wasnt being honest when he said 'I don't expect to get my money back"? The only way that was ever going to be possible was if we got to the prem and I dont know about you but I didnt ever expect that to happen, and I doubt he did either. I wouldn't pay much attention to 'reports' of what someone's wealth is. The much heralded Sunday Times Rich List also thought he owned all of Card Factory when it was sold. I used to know someone else who appeared in that and the figure they gave for him was so far out ( inflated ) he demanded and got a retraction because he thought it would negatively effect his future dealings and relationship with employees. I agree he should have taken some of the PL money when he had the chance ( though the complaining would have been immense even if he'd said thats what he'd do ) but unless he could have known he was going to get seriously ill and would want to move on as a result, how could he have known to? But that didnt cripple the club. Too many bad player and manager choices is whats done for us...something thats carried on under Nagle so far. If we can start getting some right ( hoping Duff is the start of that ) then who knows, we might go on a similarly brilliant journey that Hoyle took us on. You're right about the CF sale money it didn't all go to the Hoyles, one of the directors got around £50M, at the time they didn't even think a reasonable offer would be made & were quite happy to continue if one wasn't. Dean said 'If Blackpool, Barnsley, Bradford & Hull can get to the PL then why can't we', true, but deep down it was a pipe dream & always going to take a huge slice of luck/freak season.......Kev like Dean is going to find out that league one is no pushover, although the teams back then included the likes of Norwich, Brighton, Saints, L33ds, Charlton & Wendies who pipped us to autos along with Millwall & Peterboro that beat us in both play offs. Yeah I think looking at the sides in L1 next season it doesnt have the standard of club that it did for the last few seasons when we were last in it. Think it's fair to say we've moved on as a club too to be in much better position in terms of structure and facilities. We 'should' be successful at that level. Im really optimistic about the club's future under Nagle. He seems genuine and motivated and has the resources to make things happen. We've taken a step backwards but we might look back at that in a few years as a blessing..giving the club a chance to reset and build a winning culture again. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2024 11:14:28 GMT 1
If your parents buy you a train set and you have a brilliant time playing with it and its so much more fun than you thought it would be,, but then your dad accidentally stands on it and breaks it, how long should you tantrum about how unfair that is before you move on? Dean is your dad? Now everything makes sense! If he was hes be taking a seriously questioning look at the height of the milkman!  |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on May 31, 2024 11:16:16 GMT 1
You're right about the CF sale money it didn't all go to the Hoyles, one of the directors got around £50M, at the time they didn't even think a reasonable offer would be made & were quite happy to continue if one wasn't. Dean said 'If Blackpool, Barnsley, Bradford & Hull can get to the PL then why can't we', true, but deep down it was a pipe dream & always going to take a huge slice of luck/freak season.......Kev like Dean is going to find out that league one is no pushover, although the teams back then included the likes of Norwich, Brighton, Saints, L33ds, Charlton & Wendies who pipped us to autos along with Millwall & Peterboro that beat us in both play offs. Yeah I think looking at the sides in L1 next season it doesnt have the standard of club that it did for the last few seasons when we were last in it. Think it's fair to say we've moved on as a club too to be in much better position in terms of structure and facilities. We 'should' be successful at that level. Im really optimistic about the club's future under Nagle. He seems genuine and motivated and has the resources to make things happen. We've taken a step backwards but we might look back at that in a few years as a blessing..giving the club a chance to reset and build a winning culture again. Now be careful, you don't want people accusing you of being "entitled" to Mr Nagle's wealth and investment. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,596
|
Post by goodbet on May 31, 2024 11:16:23 GMT 1
Success on the pitch matters, of course it does. And if we finish bottom half next season there will understandably be a lot of discontent among the fan base. BUT, even though on the itch we've had a shit start, I'm still happy with Kev & Co. The communication is largely excellent, and whilst there have been mistakes (calling out individual fans in a previous diary probably shouldn't happen again, but it was hilarious!), the fact they've immersed themselves into the area, made a genuine effort to understand the culture and properly bought into the project and the people - to me that's the most important thing. Yes, there will always be clubs that are more successful on the pitch. So be it. I'd genuinely be happier as a supporter of a non-league club, than a Man City fan because although "Citeh" are possibly the best football team that has ever existed, a lot of it looks from where I'm sat as being a bit corporate and soulless. This is my club and it's being led by someone who cares about it as a community asset, not just a product. For the most part, I'd like more of the same please Kev. But maybe caveat that with the first 5 words I made in this post next! Last year started off the same way, lots of good videos and upbeat comments and as far as the football team went, nothing but a disaster. I just hope that we do better this time around. |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on May 31, 2024 11:22:54 GMT 1
I think if I was as well off (I won't say rich, not by today's football standards) as DH is then yes I'd like to believe I would. But nobody knows until they're in that situation, especially given his personal circumstances changing as they did. I've been near-death so I know first-hand how it can change your outlook, for good or bad. I certainly wouldn't. It's a hell of a lot of money. At least you're honest mate, most people would say they would even if they KNEW they wouldn't. Which is the main reason I put the second line about not knowing until you're in that position. |
|
|
|
Post by runner76 on May 31, 2024 11:25:40 GMT 1
Success on the pitch matters, of course it does. And if we finish bottom half next season there will understandably be a lot of discontent among the fan base. BUT, even though on the itch we've had a shit start, I'm still happy with Kev & Co. The communication is largely excellent, and whilst there have been mistakes (calling out individual fans in a previous diary probably shouldn't happen again, but it was hilarious!), the fact they've immersed themselves into the area, made a genuine effort to understand the culture and properly bought into the project and the people - to me that's the most important thing. Yes, there will always be clubs that are more successful on the pitch. So be it. I'd genuinely be happier as a supporter of a non-league club, than a Man City fan because although "Citeh" are possibly the best football team that has ever existed, a lot of it looks from where I'm sat as being a bit corporate and soulless. This is my club and it's being led by someone who cares about it as a community asset, not just a product. For the most part, I'd like more of the same please Kev. But maybe caveat that with the first 5 words I made in this post next! Last year started off the same way, lots of good videos and upbeat comments and as far as the football team went, nothing but a disaster. I just hope that we do better this time around. Imagine if we don't do better?! Relegation to L2!! Crazy to think, though, the new manager is on paper no better than the really poor manager we had for most of last season....bit scary |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 11:31:30 GMT 1
I certainly wouldn't. It's a hell of a lot of money. At least you're honest mate, most people would say they would even if they KNEW they wouldn't. Which is the main reason I put the second line about not knowing until you're in that position. People don't like honesty. I've found that out tenfold over the years! |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,596
|
Post by goodbet on May 31, 2024 11:48:04 GMT 1
Last year started off the same way, lots of good videos and upbeat comments and as far as the football team went, nothing but a disaster. I just hope that we do better this time around. Imagine if we don't do better?! Relegation to L2!! Crazy to think, though, the new manager is on paper no better than the really poor manager we had for most of last season....bit scary It could be argued that our new manager is worse than the DM, because he did not come with the accolades that were heaped on the really poor manager when we brought him on board. |
|
|
|
Post by gledholt terrier on May 31, 2024 11:49:24 GMT 1
I certainly wouldn't. It's a hell of a lot of money. At least you're honest mate, most people would say they would even if they KNEW they wouldn't. Which is the main reason I put the second line about not knowing until you're in that position. Anybody who believes they would simply write off millions wouldn’t have the ability, bar a lottery win, to get those millions in the first place. Have people on here never met anyone super wealthy? Different breed (good and bad). |
|
ram
Andy Booth Terrier
delete account
Posts: 3,693
|
Post by ram on May 31, 2024 11:52:47 GMT 1
At least he didn,t mention fucking Wrexham!  |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on May 31, 2024 11:57:49 GMT 1
At least you're honest mate, most people would say they would even if they KNEW they wouldn't. Which is the main reason I put the second line about not knowing until you're in that position. Anybody who believes they would simply write off millions wouldn’t have the ability, bar a lottery win, to get those millions in the first place. Have people on here never met anyone super wealthy? Different breed (good and bad). Yeah, I've met a couple of incredibly wealthy (not billions, but multiple millions) people. My mate Muthir at college was properly minted and you couldn't meet a nicer, more polite and generous person anywhere. I wouldn't go as far as saying different breed though, they're just people like we are, but with different (better? not always) personal circumstances. As I said in my original reply to htafcokay I THINK I would, after all £50m deducted from £300m still leaves more than enough to live comfortably the rest of your life. Especially as I'm pretty much a spendthrift (not always through choice ) and don't buy new stuff for the sake of it. But, like I said, nobody KNOWS what they'll do until they actually arrive at that situation. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 11:58:39 GMT 1
Anybody who believes they would simply write off millions wouldn’t have the ability, bar a lottery win, to get those millions in the first place. Have people on here never met anyone super wealthy? Different breed (good and bad). Yeah, I've met a couple of incredibly wealthy (not billions, but multiple millions) people. My mate Muthir at college was properly minted and you couldn't meet a nicer, more polite and generous person anywhere. I wouldn't go as far as saying different breed though, they're just people like we are, but with different (better? not always) personal circumstances. As I said in my original reply to htafcokay I THINK I would, after all £50m deducted from £300m still leaves more than enough to live comfortably the rest of your life. Especially as I'm pretty much a spendthrift (not always through choice ) and don't buy new stuff for the sake of it. But, like I said, nobody KNOWS what they'll do until they actually arrive at that situation. I'm pissed off if I lose a fiver, never mind £50m. |
|
|
|
Post by royrace on May 31, 2024 12:05:50 GMT 1
At least you're honest mate, most people would say they would even if they KNEW they wouldn't. Which is the main reason I put the second line about not knowing until you're in that position. Anybody who believes they would simply write off millions wouldn’t have the ability, bar a lottery win, to get those millions in the first place. Have people on here never met anyone super wealthy? Different breed (good and bad). Nobody was asking him to write it off, just accept what he had spent and not start demanding a refund. Very different. He ran the club, funded it, enjoyed it and in the end it wasn't worth much more than he paid for it and way less than he'd spent so zero roi. That's all on him and that's football. To expect his money back was unrealistic (and some other things) and impacted the future success of the football club to the point it almost went into admin, that was caused by him chasing the money. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on May 31, 2024 12:17:48 GMT 1
Anybody who believes they would simply write off millions wouldn’t have the ability, bar a lottery win, to get those millions in the first place. Have people on here never met anyone super wealthy? Different breed (good and bad). Nobody was asking him to write it off, just accept what he had spent and not start demanding a refund. Very different. He ran the club, funded it, enjoyed it and in the end it wasn't worth much more than he paid for it and way less than he'd spent so zero roi. That's all on him and that's football. To expect his money back was unrealistic (and some other things) and impacted the future success of the football club to the point it almost went into admin, that was caused by him chasing the money.No it didnt at all. Whether you think he should have wanted the money back or not, he didnt get the money back and had given up on even trying to get it back long before then. In fact the opposite had happened and he had been back to putting large amounts of his money INTO the club for some time. What almost put us into admin was him trying to move on from that situation of him having to put in large amounts of his money just to keep us going when he no longer wanted to own the club..ie using it as a threat to the major creditor so the club could be sold on to Nagle, as that major creditor ( Pure's administrator ) was stopping that happening. |
|
