Duff’s system

[pterrier]

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

[Yuta be a terrier]

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

It doesn’t help though when you have Headley playing out of his skin in one game and making the wing back system look amazing and then the next time he plays he looks like he’s just got out of bed after a 5 day bender.
The way we wasted possession tonight was criminal. We never took the ball on the half turn, we constantly looked to go backwards first and when we did have space in front we just passed it clean out of play.
Some flexibility in the formation probably is needed but you can’t legislate for the players lacking professionalism and application (1 or 2 aside).

[pterrier]

Aug 27, 2024 22:14:49 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

It doesn’t help though when you have Headley playing out of his skin in one game and making the wing back system look amazing and then the next time he plays he looks like he’s just got out of bed after a 5 day bender.
The way we wasted possession tonight was criminal. We never took the ball on the half turn, we constantly looked to go backwards first and when we did have space in front we just passed it clean out of play.
Some flexibility in the formation probably is needed but you can’t legislate for the players lacking professionalism and application (1 or 2 aside).

As I mentioned, my post isn’t directed to tonight’s game in isolation. I agree with all your points by the way, I’m just pointing out that it’s a flawed system which needs tweeking

[Wingman]

Is it the system or the players? There is a debate as Duff’s methods have been successful whereas some of the starting eleven are now ingrained losers.

They can do it, hopefully tonight will be the shake they need. Rather this than lose to Rovrum.

[FloridaTerrier]

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

The system itself I like. What I don't like though is we do get exposed and often from the diagonal ball, and our defenders who seem to run in quicksand, and for some reason all seem a yard off it. 

The system can only work if you have good physical pace central defenders who can not only cover ground, but are comfortable with the ball at their feet. But, it also needs balance, it needs a left footed CB, and right footed CB, and a comfortable ball playing CB who can bring the ball up and into the midfield (Picture a John Stones type ball playing CB. Before pelters, I understand we're in league one and to mention a John Stones is silly.)

Picture a Levi Colwill comfortability left footed CB, well there is one, and one that could be attainable and I've mentioned him on here before Johnly Yfeko on loan at Exeter from Glasgow Rangers.

Any back back to the system and the need for it there to be paced defenders. Otherwise we'll be stretched and exposed not just down the channels, but in between each defender too. The system works well, when you have defender who can cover ground quickly, and/or are intelligent enough to know when a) to press and intercept a ball, and b). when to drop and not try and nick the ball.

A system that requires a good ball playing #6, defensive mid, who can play in the transition, and most importantly who's good with the ball in tight spaces and on the half turn. Ability wise a Herbie Kane but a defensive minded midfielder but with his ability.

Wingbacks are required to be fit, our current wingbacks are. So for the most part thats good.

And a quality striker who can link up well, retain the ball, run in-between the lines of the defenders but also be clinical when we do get the goalscoring opportunities.

We see all the time the bigger clubs buy a new GK because they need a GK to also be good with the ball at their feet, similar to that for Defenders as well.

If we're wanting the system to work well, and very well in that, we're going to need some better personnel, we're not far off, but we can't wait for another window or 2 or 3. The club need to act, and act fast.

[Million Dollar Babies]

The system is irrelevant while we've got a squad full of players who seem incapable of passing the ball to each other. The number of unforced errors when in possession is mental. I thought it was because we were in the championship playing against decent teams who pressure you quickly but evidently not

[htafcdreams]

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

Agree.

Evans and Wiles seem to completely lost in midfield. They have been none existent and leave Hogg with the ball from deep and no options to pass to. Then the fans load up on Hogg saying he’s no good etc

Wingbacks push far up the fiend and 3 slow CBs get punished each game, it’s the poor league 1 finishing or Nicholls which gets us out of jail.

The front two often look isolated with ball playing CMs not getting on the ball

The wingbacks are left knocking it into the box and goals from any defensive errors rather than finishing

Headley and Soreson defensively to me have questions
Our left side looks vulnerable esp on Saturday

Miller looks very good all round, fingers crossed he keeps fit

We’ve a squad of players who are in their later years of their career or some of them have had bad injuries/ reoccurring injuries- Lees, Pearson, Ruffles, Turton, Hogg, Ward, Healey, Balker, Radulavic, Kasumu, Jones

I wonder by Duff saying in last weeks presser “he would be very happy if the squad remained as it is” will remove any further transfer by the club

[thorntoncterrier]

It isn't the system, it isn't the manager. It is the players. Too many like Headley and Hogg who are crap.

Give new boss time to rebuild.

[htafcokay]

Aug 27, 2024 22:37:58 GMT 1 Wingman said:

Is it the system or the players? There is a debate as Duff’s methods have been successful whereas some of the starting eleven are now ingrained losers.

They can do it, hopefully tonight will be the shake they need. Rather this than lose to Rovrum.

It's the players. Too many aren't good enough, never have been good enough and never will be good enough.

[htafcokay]

Aug 27, 2024 22:43:57 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

The system is irrelevant while we've got a squad full of players who seem incapable of passing the ball to each other. The number of unforced errors when in possession is mental. I thought it was because we were in the championship playing against decent teams who pressure you quickly but evidently not

All the signs were there last season, but too many people ignored them and pretended we'd be fine this season.

Duff is the real deal, just wish they'd let him completely overhaul the squad. We needed it and it hasn't happened. Too many of last season's losers remain and that losing mentality has come to the surface at the first sign of trouble.

[goodbet]

Aug 27, 2024 22:45:42 GMT 1 thorntoncterrier said:

It isn't the system, it isn't the manager. It is the players. Too many like Headley and Hogg who are crap.

Give new boss time to rebuild.

We all hope he will be given time, but he needs some more bricks to build with.

[28901]

Aug 27, 2024 22:14:49 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

It doesn’t help though when you have Headley playing out of his skin in one game and making the wing back system look amazing and then the next time he plays he looks like he’s just got out of bed after a 5 day bender.
The way we wasted possession tonight was criminal. We never took the ball on the half turn, we constantly looked to go backwards first and when we did have space in front we just passed it clean out of play.
Some flexibility in the formation probably is needed but you can’t legislate for the players lacking professionalism and application (1 or 2 aside).

Headley has apparently 'played out of his skin' in one game ever.

[htafcokay]

Aug 27, 2024 23:16:22 GMT 1 28901 said:

Aug 27, 2024 22:14:49 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

It doesn’t help though when you have Headley playing out of his skin in one game and making the wing back system look amazing and then the next time he plays he looks like he’s just got out of bed after a 5 day bender.
The way we wasted possession tonight was criminal. We never took the ball on the half turn, we constantly looked to go backwards first and when we did have space in front we just passed it clean out of play.
Some flexibility in the formation probably is needed but you can’t legislate for the players lacking professionalism and application (1 or 2 aside).

Headley has apparently 'played out of his skin' in one game ever.

Against Morecambe. Who were dreadful.

[theterrier42]

Aug 27, 2024 23:06:33 GMT 1 htafcokay said:

Aug 27, 2024 22:43:57 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

The system is irrelevant while we've got a squad full of players who seem incapable of passing the ball to each other. The number of unforced errors when in possession is mental. I thought it was because we were in the championship playing against decent teams who pressure you quickly but evidently not

All the signs were there last season, but too many people ignored them and pretended we'd be fine this season.

Duff is the real deal, just wish they'd let him completely overhaul the squad. We needed it and it hasn't happened. Too many of last season's losers remain and that losing mentality has come to the surface at the first sign of trouble.

It’s an absolute travesty that we are starting this season with Ward, Hogg, Turton, Lees, Pearson, Ruffels, Harratt, Headley etc. I understand there has to be demand to get rid of players but it’s certainly not been the overhaul needed. I do believe we will be busy before Friday though!

[htafcokay]

Aug 27, 2024 23:19:34 GMT 1 theterrier42 said:

Aug 27, 2024 23:06:33 GMT 1 htafcokay said:

All the signs were there last season, but too many people ignored them and pretended we'd be fine this season.

Duff is the real deal, just wish they'd let him completely overhaul the squad. We needed it and it hasn't happened. Too many of last season's losers remain and that losing mentality has come to the surface at the first sign of trouble.

It’s an absolute travesty that we are starting this season with Ward, Hogg, Turton, Lees, Pearson, Ruffels, Harratt, Headley etc. I understand there has to be demand to get rid of players but it’s certainly not been the overhaul needed. I do believe we will be busy before Friday though!

I don't.

The club never seem to learn, no matter who the owner is.

[28901]

Aug 27, 2024 22:42:32 GMT 1 FloridaTerrier said:

Aug 27, 2024 22:10:21 GMT 1 pterrier said:

Disclaimer: This isn’t a knee jerk reaction tonight but rather my observations from all the games so far this season.

This system is exactly the same shape that we had under Moore when we played 3-5-2; the only difference is against better teams they pushed our wingbacks into full backs but the rest is the same. The biggest flaw in the system is the huge gaps between the centre midfield three which leaves us so short of options when trying to play out from the back. Two of the midfielders (exactly the same as under Moore) play as inverted wingers and as a result never get on the ball and unfortunately that leaves Hogg (terrible under pressure) as the pivot!

The second main problem with the system is the centre backs who are too far apart and it’s easy to find gaps in the system, further compounded by the lack of protection offered by our one holding midfielder (who also happens to be completely immobile).

For me there is two solutions.
Option A: rethink the tactical approach and positions
Option B: invest in the suitable personnel to play the way you want to.

If neither happens then we aren’t going up I’m afraid

The system itself I like. What I don't like though is we do get exposed and often from the diagonal ball, and our defenders who seem to run in quicksand, and for some reason all seem a yard off it. 

The system can only work if you have good physical pace central defenders who can not only cover ground, but are comfortable with the ball at their feet. But, it also needs balance, it needs a left footed CB, and right footed CB, and a comfortable ball playing CB who can bring the ball up and into the midfield (Picture a John Stones type ball playing CB. Before pelters, I understand we're in league one and to mention a John Stones is silly.)

Picture a Levi Colwill comfortability left footed CB, well there is one, and one that could be attainable and I've mentioned him on here before Johnly Yfeko on loan at Exeter from Glasgow Rangers.

Any back back to the system and the need for it there to be paced defenders. Otherwise we'll be stretched and exposed not just down the channels, but in between each defender too. The system works well, when you have defender who can cover ground quickly, and/or are intelligent enough to know when a) to press and intercept a ball, and b). when to drop and not try and nick the ball.

A system that requires a good ball playing #6, defensive mid, who can play in the transition, and most importantly who's good with the ball in tight spaces and on the half turn. Ability wise a Herbie Kane but a defensive minded midfielder but with his ability.

Wingbacks are required to be fit, our current wingbacks are. So for the most part thats good.

And a quality striker who can link up well, retain the ball, run in-between the lines of the defenders but also be clinical when we do get the goalscoring opportunities.

We see all the time the bigger clubs buy a new GK because they need a GK to also be good with the ball at their feet, similar to that for Defenders as well.

If we're wanting the system to work well, and very well in that, we're going to need some better personnel, we're not far off, but we can't wait for another window or 2 or 3. The club need to act, and act fast.

You're right except for one thing

We're not far off, we're miles off.

[irverino]

Duffs Barnsley side played 80 minutes at Wembley with a man less after a poor referee decision, they were the better side & were desperately unlucky in the end, but MD didn't stop his team attacking Wendies even with a man short & you do wonder if in extra time they tired because of this.....Tonight at 2-0 up down to ten the bus needed parking (IMO), is MD too stubborn not to do this or is his stance correct?

[soapystevens]

I wouldn't have parked the bus because we are not good enough even to defend a 2-0 lead all be it with ten men. I remember playing Forest at home about 12 years back and they were down to 9 men and out played us for most of the second half and we only got a late goal to make it 3-1. It might have been different if we had played at full strength but tonight's squad are all 1st team players, god help us if we get a lot of injuries.

[Terriersmad]

Duff's teams tend to grow into seasons as slow starters. We've started unusually quickly for a side under him. That Barnsley side was very good, but lost 3 of their first 6 games in the league as they grew into the season; once it got going, from October, it was formidable, on a run of 23 wins in 35 games in all competitions, including some absolutely thumping wins. They wavered a little at the death.

We're not, in truth, too far short. We have frailties and failings, and I expect play-offs rather than automatic promotion. We still need 3 players for the system, as whatever personnel we play now, we're slightly unbalanced. We must have a left-sided central defender - we've seen the experiment with Spencer, and he's not comfortable there. Balker might be - and probably is - but he's injured. We must have a defensive midfielder comfortable in possession - with Hogg it just isn't working. And if we drop him, we lack an effective screen unless Kasumu alters his natural game of driving on between the lines - and I want him to cover right wing-back. And we need a striker. We've created a hatful of chances and not taken them.

A couple of players have yet to step up as expected. Evans was outstanding against Peterborough, but has been off the boil in the last two games. Kane is, unfortunately, injured so no natural replacement or fulcrum in the middle. Injuries have shown we are short and that's going to cost us. Iorpenda looked bright tonight in fairness to him, and if he's here we need to use him.

The issue is hardly the system. The issue tonight was players not doing things properly and, unfortunately, the manager getting his adjustments to 10 men wrong.

[Amigo]

I think the system is fine but the players in it are the problem.

The centre backs don't have any pace so that's why there are gaps at times, as well as that they aren't "footballers" so when they have possession they struggle. When teams are going to sit back and wait for us there's no point lumping it and we have to be patient and build, but because of the movement in front of them and their lack of ability on the ball they struggle.

Hogg plays in a 10 yard square next to the centre backs (the "he's here, he's there" etc.. chant couldn't be more laughable) which leaves a big gap in midfield between him, Wiles and Evans. He doesn't show for the ball enough either which gives the centre backs no options and when they do find him they get it straight back.

Evans and Wiles aren't defensively minded enough to drop back to help Hogg get moves started and only come to life in the final third. Wiles more so and as a side note his pass completion stats are actually way higher than I thought, 86% for a midfielder is pretty impressive.

The first choice wing backs are for this level generally very good.

Up front obviously we need another but with Koroma, Healey, Marshall, Radulovic, Ward, Harratt and Phillips to come back we also need to get rid of someone because that's 7 already. The first 4 I think are good options but 2 have regular niggles so definitely need another.

Mobile CDM, pacey CB and striker are clearly what's needed but I can definitely see this team getting better as the season goes on.

[Mastercracker]

Aug 27, 2024 22:43:57 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

The system is irrelevant while we've got a squad full of players who seem incapable of passing the ball to each other. The number of unforced errors when in possession is mental. I thought it was because we were in the championship playing against decent teams who pressure you quickly but evidently not

Looked like we were playing football on a cobbled street last night.

[Deleted]

That Morecambe game we had several players going past their defenders with ease,Headley was doing it too.
I thought then that Golcar Utd would have put up more of a performance than Morecambe.

[deucebigalow77]

Aug 28, 2024 8:33:39 GMT 1 @herefordaway said:

That Morecambe game we had several players going past their defenders with ease,Headley was doing it too.
I thought then that Golcar Utd would have put up more of a performance than Morecambe.

Absolutely no need to bring Golcar into this 😉 UTV

[royrace]

Aug 28, 2024 7:58:36 GMT 1 Amigo said:

I think the system is fine but the players in it are the problem.

The centre backs don't have any pace so that's why there are gaps at times, as well as that they aren't "footballers" so when they have possession they struggle. When teams are going to sit back and wait for us there's no point lumping it and we have to be patient and build, but because of the movement in front of them and their lack of ability on the ball they struggle.

Hogg plays in a 10 yard square next to the centre backs (the "he's here, he's there" etc.. chant couldn't be more laughable) which leaves a big gap in midfield between him, Wiles and Evans. He doesn't show for the ball enough either which gives the centre backs no options and when they do find him they get it straight back.

Evans and Wiles aren't defensively minded enough to drop back to help Hogg get moves started and only come to life in the final third. Wiles more so and as a side note his pass completion stats are actually way higher than I thought, 86% for a midfielder is pretty impressive.

The first choice wing backs are for this level generally very good.

Up front obviously we need another but with Koroma, Healey, Marshall, Radulovic, Ward, Harratt and Phillips to come back we also need to get rid of someone because that's 7 already. The first 4 I think are good options but 2 have regular niggles so definitely need another.

Mobile CDM, pacey CB and striker are clearly what's needed but I can definitely see this team getting better as the season goes on.

Do our centre backs really need pace? How many pacey centre backs play in the championship or L1? Genuine question as I'm not sure.

I've always thought though you don't necessarily need pace if your positional play is good enough. I don't remember Bruce or Pallister being quick and they did ok?

Is it just a case of the three at the back getting used to the new formation and learning not to get involved in a foot race with a pacey forward without having a yard or two head start?

Same old reaction after conceding goals, blame the keeper or the defenders. Whilst they certainly looked poor it would help if the rest of the team did their bit, non existent midfield, zero hold up play from the forwards.

It was interesting to see Harrat against L2 opposition, reminds me of his two poor loan stints. Ridiculous we used him in the champ and are still relying on him.

[trevuptop]

Playing Hogg with not a single Centre Half who looks comfortable on the ball is an issue. How do we expect to build up with the likes of Lees, Pearson, Heilik and Spencer all struggling at breaking the lines with their passes?

Quite clearly crying out for a new CB - Nigel Lonwijk was at the game last night?

The system insn't an issue as shown by Duff's time at Barnsley, but it does take a bit of getting used to as well as having the correct players - They also had a slow start that year

[htafcokay]

Aug 28, 2024 9:29:22 GMT 1 royrace said:

Aug 28, 2024 7:58:36 GMT 1 Amigo said:

I think the system is fine but the players in it are the problem.

The centre backs don't have any pace so that's why there are gaps at times, as well as that they aren't "footballers" so when they have possession they struggle. When teams are going to sit back and wait for us there's no point lumping it and we have to be patient and build, but because of the movement in front of them and their lack of ability on the ball they struggle.

Hogg plays in a 10 yard square next to the centre backs (the "he's here, he's there" etc.. chant couldn't be more laughable) which leaves a big gap in midfield between him, Wiles and Evans. He doesn't show for the ball enough either which gives the centre backs no options and when they do find him they get it straight back.

Evans and Wiles aren't defensively minded enough to drop back to help Hogg get moves started and only come to life in the final third. Wiles more so and as a side note his pass completion stats are actually way higher than I thought, 86% for a midfielder is pretty impressive.

The first choice wing backs are for this level generally very good.

Up front obviously we need another but with Koroma, Healey, Marshall, Radulovic, Ward, Harratt and Phillips to come back we also need to get rid of someone because that's 7 already. The first 4 I think are good options but 2 have regular niggles so definitely need another.

Mobile CDM, pacey CB and striker are clearly what's needed but I can definitely see this team getting better as the season goes on.

Do our centre backs really need pace? How many pacey centre backs play in the championship or L1? Genuine question as I'm not sure.

I've always thought though you don't necessarily need pace if your positional play is good enough. I don't remember Bruce or Pallister being quick and they did ok?

Is it just a case of the three at the back getting used to the new formation and learning not to get involved in a foot race with a pacey forward without having a yard or two head start?

Same old reaction after conceding goals, blame the keeper or the defenders. Whilst they certainly looked poor it would help if the rest of the team did their bit, non existent midfield, zero hold up play from the forwards.

It was interesting to see Harrat against L2 opposition, reminds me of his two poor loan stints. Ridiculous we used him in the champ and are still relying on him.

Port Vale liked him, so not sure where you get "two poor loan stints" from but you're right, he ain't good enough.

[bogart]

System played, personnel on the pitch does not matter one iota when you cannot kick a ball 10 yds to a teammate. Trip to specsavers to check on colour blindness would not go amiss!

[rockwall]

Personally don't think the system is the problem. Ots the players in it.

Miller and Sorenson play the wing back riles perfectly and we look dangerous everytime they get the ball.

It was clear that without Miller we were shocking as Headley doesn't seem to be able to do it.

Once Sorenson went off, the same happened - to be fair we did go to a back 4 I think.

I am a Hogg fan, but he doesn't have what we need to play this system, last night showed with his inability to turn and play a crisp long forward pass. Sure Kane will potentially be there when fit.

Last night showed that the back up players aren't up to it.

[jqhtfc]

We’ve lost one game

[SN0W]

So far, his second half subs seem to be our stumbling block. It certainly looks like a case of being dealt a crap hand and he's having to cope?