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Post by boooothy on Sept 25, 2024 22:19:03 GMT 1
Michael Duff was certainly alluding to how poor the home supporters are. Hardly any noise unless we score and moans and groans when things don’t go right not to mention the boos. The players may not be playing well but how did we become such a shite crowd? I know all the usual suspects on here will say ‘they need to give us something to cheer for’ but we used to be really behind the team, win, lose or draw and now we are generally just crap. What a sorry state. You are going to get shot down for this 😂 |
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Post by Sio on Sept 25, 2024 22:30:49 GMT 1
I'm not advocating the booing - that's fine - but I really do think you have to consider the past 6-7 years rather than the past 6-7 games in terms of why our fans are increasingly angry. This is a total issue of accumulation that needs to be managed internally. The fans have been very, very patient and clearly that is wearing thin. I don’t think the fans are angry. They are just apathetic and that’s worse imo. I'm not sure - the boos at half time on Saturday were louder than when we got relegated. I think relegation woke a few up, piqued some interest, and it's come back down on people like a ton of bricks. |
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Post by detox on Sept 25, 2024 23:06:22 GMT 1
We've had years of chaos at town, 2 relegations, sold our best players, 3 owners, a dozen managers, and crap football.
Patience is in short supply, and if the football is still crap then booing is fully justified.
Duff needs to get real
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Post by Gold Coast Terrier on Sept 25, 2024 23:47:07 GMT 1
Bad recruitment, on contracts longer than they should be. It catches up to you in the long run.
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Post by willo on Sept 26, 2024 0:23:52 GMT 1
I'm not advocating the booing - that's fine - but I really do think you have to consider the past 6-7 years rather than the past 6-7 games in terms of why our fans are increasingly angry. This is a total issue of accumulation that needs to be managed internally. The fans have been very, very patient and clearly that is wearing thin. I don’t think the fans are angry. They are just apathetic and that’s worse imo. And beyond apathy comes simply not bothering to turn up because it’s that poor and you only paid peanuts for a season card anyway. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Sept 26, 2024 0:39:15 GMT 1
Are you for real? Aren't we something like the worst performing club across the entire football league over the past decade or so? Our home atmospheres have depleted since the Premier League days, no denying, but we still have a good home crowd for decent chunks of any season. You should do some ground hopping - you might appreciate how good we can be at our place. The past couple of games, fine, terrible, but nobody can be blamed for that whatsoever. I remember how we used to be as a crowd before we split the singing section off. We struggled for acoustics but the whole Kilner Bank used to belt it out. Hahahaha are you for real? 'The whole Kilner used to belt it out' erm, no they didn't. Up until the Town fans were given the south stand, the atmosphere in the stadium was, for the majority of matches, very average. The 'singing section' is barely noticeable to anyone not immediately near it. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Sept 26, 2024 0:39:50 GMT 1
Michael Duff was certainly alluding to how poor the home supporters are. Hardly any noise unless we score and moans and groans when things don’t go right not to mention the boos. The players may not be playing well but how did we become such a shite crowd? I know all the usual suspects on here will say ‘they need to give us something to cheer for’ but we used to be really behind the team, win, lose or draw and now we are generally just crap. What a sorry state. You are going to get shot down for this 😂 And rightly so. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 26, 2024 6:28:56 GMT 1
For the first 5 mins on Tues, Town seemed up for it, the crowd was starting to get behind the team, then our game petered out v quickly.
The supporters will get behind the team if the team start to play well for more than two or three 5 min bursts in a 90 minute game, and start creating good chances and putting them away.
In the 4 home games we’ve had in the league we’ve scored 4 and conceded 6, that’s not really promotion form when you extrapolate that across 23 games.
Had Josh scored that penalty v the Cobblers, I’m pretty sure the ground would have been up for the last 10 mins, but the save just gave everyone that Deja vu feeling of oh for FFS here we go again.
It makes me wonder how many of our players socialise outside of training and game days? We look like a set of players that don’t really get on with each other half the time. Someone else commented about supporting Helik and Koroma on Sat, that’s absolutely what we need to see, some team spirit, because it’s seeping out of them every minute they find themselves conceding the first goal.
The mentality is one of a business in a bit of a death spiral, and if there is a blame culture behind the scenes I’d say we can kiss goodbye to promotion.
The striker situation will only be proven if we start creating more than 2-3 decent chances every game, you can’t succeed with those sort of figures because a good striker probably puts away 1 in 3 chances anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2024 7:31:50 GMT 1
Michael Duff was certainly alluding to how poor the home supporters are. Hardly any noise unless we score and moans and groans when things don’t go right not to mention the boos. The players may not be playing well but how did we become such a shite crowd? I know all the usual suspects on here will say ‘they need to give us something to cheer for’ but we used to be really behind the team, win, lose or draw and now we are generally just crap. What a sorry state. You are going to get shot down for this 😂 I know. |
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Post by atowninessex on Sept 26, 2024 7:52:16 GMT 1
there seems to be total Apathy throughout the club and supporters, fans would be up for it if the players and manager actually gave us
something to get up about, the tactics are rubbish the opposition show more energy and desire in nearly every game , recruitment has
been poor - going over old ground getting rid of Warnock was the worst decision made - their are always clashes of egos in the work place
but you must make the best decision for the club or accept full responsibility for your actions, .I'm not sure KN has done that
i really hope this can be turned around but feel we have another long season of discontent ahead of us - dreading gong to Birmingham next week
but expect our tactics to be 5 - 5 which will be screwed when they score after 2 minutes
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Post by dugnet on Sept 26, 2024 8:03:15 GMT 1
It's too easy to blame the fans. The fans are, and essentially always are, desperate for something to get behind. We need something to believe in.
David Wagner once said, paraphrasing, "our fans are very intelligent, they understand what they are watching". I think that was very astute and those at the club need to accept it now.
The inconsistency this season is frustrating, and hardly helping the mood of the fans. When you do see some good stuff eg Peterborough 2nd half, Bolton for 50 minutes it makes the diametrically opposite difficult to understand.
I currently feel the issue is very much tactical. In as much as we aren't getting the absolute best from the players we have. That been said I would also note there are very few characters in the squad that the fans identify with. We have little in the way of leaders, personality and heart. Perhaps such players are of a bygone age but we had them under Wagner and Toffolo and O'Brien fulfilled the role more recently.
There are so many reasons why the malaise continues. It's all very well for those responsible to say "we need the fans behind us" but that will definitely happen if there's something to get behind. We are clamouring for just that.
Those in charge, and I mean everyone from Mr Nagle to MD, needs to have a long look at what the issues are in terms of tactics, approach, desire and character. They need to accept things can't be right and that something needs to be done.
The positive is that I do think there's enough footballing ability in the squad to get results in this league. That's down to MD to adapt and deliver. The fans will get behind a winning team. Longer term we need to inject some personality, character and winners into the squad. MD might find a way but that won't shy away from the lack of mental toughness.
Fans aren't stupid and Town fans will always get behind those in blue and white stripes who they identify with and believe in. At the moment they don't have that relationship with the current squad. Add this to the scar tissue of many,many months you end up with ambivalent of some and the frustration of many.
Anyone at the club who may read this and dismiss it shouldn't be in post because I think it's very much at the nub of the problem. David Wagner was absolutely right that we do know what we are watching and games like the last two are very difficult to support.
If anyone has any doubt that the fans aren't as I say let's roll back to Saturday. I'm the moment we won the penalty everyone could sense an unlikely come back. The support was immediately there. The balloon was burst and the mood continued into Tuesday.
The fans have been incredibly patient over the last 6 years and have witnessed a steady decline. Yet many still hope for better. The club need to be empathetic to that end determine to do something about it. It is said we are ambitious and want to compete at the top end of the Championship. Well, we are light years away from that, and we all know it. Far better those in charge get real and start to do something about it.
UTT
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Yuta be a terrier
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Sept 26, 2024 8:22:13 GMT 1
Interesting that even Chicken and Hartrick are now saying that the club need to start paying the fans back. This is not just the emotionally invested that can see we have been subjected to some incredibly poor performances and standards in recent times.
I make it that we’ve played WELL in 2 of the last 10 home league games and the 1 whole 90 is the performance against Leeds where we dug in against a very good side.
Leeds 1-1 battled hard
WBA 1-4 decent first half, abysmal 2nd
Cov 1-3 never got going
Millwall 1-0 1 minute at the end covered up a dire first 90
Swansea 0-4 possibly the most unprofessional performance I’ve ever seen
Birmingham 1-1 already down, didn’t exactly fight for our lives
Stevenage 2-1 decent first half slack 2nd
Shrewsbury 1-0 slack 90
Northampton 1-3 worst home performance in years?
Blackpool 0-2 zero reaction and equally as poor as above
But no, us home fans should be bouncing off the rooftops shouldn’t we?
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Post by detox on Sept 26, 2024 8:48:11 GMT 1
For the first 5 mins on Tues, Town seemed up for it, the crowd was starting to get behind the team, then our game petered out v quickly. The supporters will get behind the team if the team start to play well for more than two or three 5 min bursts in a 90 minute game, and start creating good chances and putting them away. In the 4 home games we’ve had in the league we’ve scored 4 and conceded 6, that’s not really promotion form when you extrapolate that across 23 games. Had Josh scored that penalty v the Cobblers, I’m pretty sure the ground would have been up for the last 10 mins, but the save just gave everyone that Deja vu feeling of oh for FFS here we go again. It makes me wonder how many of our players socialise outside of training and game days? We look like a set of players that don’t really get on with each other half the time. Someone else commented about supporting Helik and Koroma on Sat, that’s absolutely what we need to see, some team spirit, because it’s seeping out of them every minute they find themselves conceding the first goal. The mentality is one of a business in a bit of a death spiral, and if there is a blame culture behind the scenes I’d say we can kiss goodbye to promotion. The striker situation will only be proven if we start creating more than 2-3 decent chances every game, you can’t succeed with those sort of figures because a good striker probably puts away 1 in 3 chances anyway. We do seem to be having more shots ..last 4 league games 51 shots...13 on target ....6 goals...3 defeats. average possession 54% .. I don't know if 6 goals from 51 shots (11.7%) is an above average success rate..basically we need 9 shots to score a goal..but when they're on target we have a 50% success rate.. |
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bogart
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Post by bogart on Sept 26, 2024 9:11:37 GMT 1
Its a mixture of things. Recruitment has been really bad. We spent decent money in the championship on Healey,Radulovic and Balker. They should have been top players for us in this league but instead they are always injured or just not upto it. Sorensen has done OK and Evans has been poor, although I think will come good eventually. Kane and Miller were released by clubs at this level and Ladapo was without a club. They were never going to change the team dynamics. There seems to be no individuals here you can build a team around and the only ones with true leadership skills who will grab the bull by its horns when things arnt going well are past there sell by date. Miller was one bright spot until he succumbed to the Town disease. |
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bogart
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Post by bogart on Sept 26, 2024 9:13:19 GMT 1
Last night on the touchline you could hear bellowing out his instructions Steve Bruce but i didn't hear much from the Town bench, maybe i am just sitting too far away but it's the same on the pitch. I have never seen a Town team devoid of so much passion at this stage of the season or that is how it seems, they go a goal down and it seems like "oh here we go again". I think we need more than a Psychologist, i seem to remember Lee Clark bringing someone in but i can't remember what happened. I believe at Bolton after the Town result, they had a meeting to sort things out, it seems to have worked. As I mentioned in another thread Duff was absent from the touchline for long periods. And when he was there made no effort to spur anybody on standing there like a statue. |
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2024 9:22:50 GMT 1
Nothing wrong with the fan reaction whatsoever so let's put that too bed.
It's really simple, if the team plays well the crowd will be very supportive, if they don't but manage to get a result you'll get a more muted atmosphere.
If the team plays poorly they'll get groaned at, if they're getting out run and outclassed by a team on a fraction of the money they are they will quite understandably get booed by some.
The club are very lucky to sell so many tickets on the back of last season's abomination.
The responsibility is that of the DoF, he makes the singings, assesses the squad and oversees everything else on the footballing side. Last season he couldn't have done a worse job, this season is starting to look the same.
On top of that we seem to have hired a coach who's forgotten how to get a team to play football with each other and literally has one single way of playing for every occasion.
Hopefully he can improve matters but it doesn't look good at all so far when the team is set up so fundamentally badly. So much so that from the off the opposition's commentary team were highlighting all the problems. A huge gaping hole in midfield being one of them.
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Post by townarentbest on Sept 26, 2024 9:27:17 GMT 1
Michael Duff was certainly alluding to how poor the home supporters are. Hardly any noise unless we score and moans and groans when things don’t go right not to mention the boos. The players may not be playing well but how did we become such a shite crowd? I know all the usual suspects on here will say ‘they need to give us something to cheer for’ but we used to be really behind the team, win, lose or draw and now we are generally just crap. What a sorry state. That support was chanting his name during the opening few minutes on Tuesday night. There's a very clear and obvious reason why the atmosphere rapidly gets sucked out of the game, and it's down to 11 men to sort that out under his guidance. |
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Post by mids on Sept 26, 2024 9:56:46 GMT 1
It's the perennial chicken and egg situation...
Do we fans need the team to perform in order for us all to react and up the atmosphere?
Or do the team need us fans to proactively create an atmosphere that helps the players thrive?
There's no definitive answer...but all of us fans could probably do more - especially when a goal down
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Post by Sio on Sept 26, 2024 10:20:21 GMT 1
Michael Duff was certainly alluding to how poor the home supporters are. Hardly any noise unless we score and moans and groans when things don’t go right not to mention the boos. The players may not be playing well but how did we become such a shite crowd? I know all the usual suspects on here will say ‘they need to give us something to cheer for’ but we used to be really behind the team, win, lose or draw and now we are generally just crap. What a sorry state. That support was chanting his name during the opening few minutes on Tuesday night. There's a very clear and obvious reason why the atmosphere rapidly gets sucked out of the game, and it's down to 11 men to sort that out under his guidance. Agreed. It really doesn't sit well with me that Duff is criticising our home support. It feels deflective, detached and completely lacking in understanding of where we are. If Wagner, Carlos or Warnock had come out with such comments I would completely empathise with them. But Michael Duff, after years of misery and two of the worst consecutive home performances we've seen in god knows how long? Ridiculous. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 26, 2024 10:46:00 GMT 1
It’s human nature surely.
If the team is fighting and surging forward to come from behind ,our crowd are always 100% behind the team.
If the team are constantly misplacing passes, not beating the first man at a corner and showing absolutely no attacking threat, it’s only natural that the crowd goes quiet.
Herr Wagner’s comments quoted by Dugnet are very true.
We all know what we are watching.
Just like we all knew which weaknesses in the team needed addressing more than a year ago.
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ram
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Post by ram on Sept 26, 2024 10:53:57 GMT 1
I was not an advocate of Duffs appointment,to me he is a part-time manager { his mind is half in Cheltenham} he doesn,t seem to have any enthusiasm for the job,again understandable due to his home situation.And Kevin Nagle cannot be in control of the club by telephone etc.,From 6.000 miles away.The whole setup is wrong!...Do the owners of B,Ham and Wrexham have a more permanent base there? If not they must have a better team running their clubs for them.
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Post by Sio on Sept 26, 2024 11:01:36 GMT 1
I was not an advocate of Duffs appointment, to me he is a part-time manager { his mind is half in Cheltenham} he doesn,t seem to have any enthusiasm for the job,again understandable due to his home situation.And Kevin Nagle cannot be in control of the club by telephone etc.,From 6.000 miles away.The whole setup is wrong!...Do the owners of B,Ham and Wrexham have a more permanent base there? If not they must have a better team running their clubs for them. I wasn't particularly a fan of the appointment either but I'm not sure this should have much bearing - didn't Wagner's family stay in Dortmund for his entire time at town? |
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Post by Mastercracker on Sept 26, 2024 11:02:09 GMT 1
Regarding the crowd, the other problem is there's zero credit in the bank with the club, ownership or most of these players. IMO we've been shit for most of the last 12 years, with 2 or 3 massive outliers that defy logic. We've certainly been almost universally abysmal since 2018. Thats pushing 7 years now, not a small amount of time.
1 or 2 performances like the last week would be tolerated more if the fanbase felt like the club had mostly been punching its weight and trying to better itself. As it is the fans start off general supportive but as soon as it goes wrong the anger of our recent history bubbles up to the surface. Duff seems to have acknowledged our dire recent history so he ought to understand this too.
No fanbase is going to be very forgiving of getting twatted at home by Northampton in the 3rd division 6 years since holding Man City and Chelsea in their own backyards to ensure top flight survival or just over 2 years since being 90 minutes from a top flight return.
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Post by Mastercracker on Sept 26, 2024 11:03:45 GMT 1
I was not an advocate of Duffs appointment, to me he is a part-time manager { his mind is half in Cheltenham} he doesn,t seem to have any enthusiasm for the job,again understandable due to his home situation.And Kevin Nagle cannot be in control of the club by telephone etc.,From 6.000 miles away.The whole setup is wrong!...Do the owners of B,Ham and Wrexham have a more permanent base there? If not they must have a better team running their clubs for them. I wasn't particularly a fan of the appointment either but I'm not sure this should have much bearing - didn't Wagner's family stay in Dortmund for his entire time at town? They lived with him in Fixby from summer 2016 onwards. Not that I think it has any relevance to the original point. |
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Post by hoggy1975 on Sept 26, 2024 11:10:02 GMT 1
I wasn't particularly a fan of the appointment either but I'm not sure this should have much bearing - didn't Wagner's family stay in Dortmund for his entire time at town? They lived with him in Fixby from summer 2016 onwards. Not that I think it has any relevance to the original point. I think Kasey Palmer and Lowe were in that same estate too from what I remember. By estate, I mean the houses were worth over a million at least! |
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ram
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Post by ram on Sept 26, 2024 11:13:03 GMT 1
I was not an advocate of Duffs appointment, to me he is a part-time manager { his mind is half in Cheltenham} he doesn,t seem to have any enthusiasm for the job,again understandable due to his home situation.And Kevin Nagle cannot be in control of the club by telephone etc.,From 6.000 miles away.The whole setup is wrong!...Do the owners of B,Ham and Wrexham have a more permanent base there? If not they must have a better team running their clubs for them. I wasn't particularly a fan of the appointment either but I'm not sure this should have much bearing - didn't Wagner's family stay in Dortmund for his entire time at town? Did Wagner have a "special needs daughter"? |
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Post by Mastercracker on Sept 26, 2024 11:35:22 GMT 1
They lived with him in Fixby from summer 2016 onwards. Not that I think it has any relevance to the original point. I think Kasey Palmer and Lowe were in that same estate too from what I remember. By estate, I mean the houses were worth over a million at least! DH was involved in their construction. |
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Post by jp on Sept 26, 2024 11:39:32 GMT 1
Football is such a simple game… Why do coaches or managers insist on complicating it? Bruce at Blackpool and Warnock with us showed it’s a simple game. Pool haven’t spent more than us this summer have they? Nor did they have any championship waged players. We were completely outplayed by a club with less resources and a newer manager. Just make it as simple as possible for the players. 442.
2 centre halves- Nigel and Helik
2 full backs - Turton & Ruffels or Sorensen & miller
2 centre mids- Kane and Evans or Kasumu or Tom Iorpenda
2 wide midfielders - Sorensen, maybe Koroma, Kasumu…
2 strikers - Healey & a.n.other
We don’t really have a squad for 442 anymore do we…but it doesn’t look like these players can play the wingbacks system. Isn’t playing with wingbacks all a bit 2010 anyway? Are there many teams playing this formation these days?
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Post by Richard1986 on Sept 26, 2024 14:08:34 GMT 1
Our squad isn't the best but its not bad. We have some good players and some average ones, almost all now playing badly. Again we have another new manager a with decent record looking suspect. Despite all the changes in personel we have returned to that losing, fearful, negative mentality that we've had for the last 3 seasons (apart from the spell under Warnock). All this to me points to something the stinks at the heart of the club. How can can all these individuals, new and old, underperform so badly in exactly the same way and in the same manner that we've seen so many times before? This all points to a much deeper problem What the hell is it? Just the end result of a long time of cost cutting measures. No 'B' team. No accademy or U18's. Poor first team consisting of punts. Poor medical depatment. Poor training. The spine of the team is still the same as it has been for a few seasons. |
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Post by prestonrues1 on Sept 26, 2024 22:34:01 GMT 1
Our squad isn't the best but its not bad. We have some good players and some average ones, almost all now playing badly. Again we have another new manager a with decent record looking suspect. Despite all the changes in personel we have returned to that losing, fearful, negative mentality that we've had for the last 3 seasons (apart from the spell under Warnock). All this to me points to something the stinks at the heart of the club. How can can all these individuals, new and old, underperform so badly in exactly the same way and in the same manner that we've seen so many times before? This all points to a much deeper problem What the hell is it? Just the end result of a long time of cost cutting measures. No 'B' team. No accademy or U18's. Poor first team consisting of punts. Poor medical depatment. Poor training. The spine of the team is still the same as it has been for a few seasons. I’m an extremely positive poster , and I think your spot on the feeling amongst the fan base IS because of the cost cutting and lack of ambition the club as shown since the PL. Since KN as taken over though I’m feeling the roots of reinvesting slowly pushing through and although it’s so hard myself including to have belief in this wonderful club that just hasn’t had the backing it truly deserves I have hope that KN will bring it . |
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