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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jun 26, 2023 22:32:45 GMT 1
Because I imagine every aspect of the club is being scrutinised by the new owners and they may decide somebody with an excellent academy record is worth looking at It could be argued that at this moment in time, those involved in our Academy have an excellent record, with a number of Academy players making contributions to the first team. Nevertheless, as I’ve said before, it’ll be interesting to see what the new owner and CEO have in mind for the Academy set up I struggle to understand the model sometimes When we set out the likes of Tommy Smith (released by Man City) and Phil Billing were the shinning examples and reference points We as a club were going to Gegenpress from youth team to the First Team - and recruit to that model We had a B team, U19 and U17 and played friendlies across Europe against the likes of Bayern Munich Brexit did for the Phil Billing signings (Diarra etc the last of that bunch) We then randomly got two lads from Northern Ireland and no one else from Northern Ireland yet have clubs affiliated there We never scout an Irish player (used to get a few back in the day) We hardly do any Tommy Smith/ Harry Bunn signings - i.e 18 and released by a big side. Jon Russell is the only one I can think of in the last few seasons We don't seem to do any European friendlies or go to any international Tournaments We don't have a U17 team We do seem to play teams of 17 year olds against teams with far older boys and then watch them spend much of the season getting hammered by Chesterfield etc We seemed to have drifted a long way from the original blueprint
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jun 27, 2023 8:26:47 GMT 1
I get your general point, although I’d guess the initial grand plans have been downgraded as the overall club budget has been trimmed.
There doesn’t ever seem to have been evidence of a proper scouting network. I’d imagine we’ve relied on affiliated or trusted scouts here and there rather than a really comprehensive system.
A couple of specific points though – we’ve signed Conor Falls and Brodie Spencer from N Ireland and have that affiliated club over there. I’d imagine that affiliation gives us some good intelligence on the top players coming through over there.
We’ve signed a few players cast off by Brighton and Brentford for the B team I think – Tom Iorpenda being one who’s highly rated. Probably more value in players from there than Man City or Chelsea where they’ll be paid more. And we seem to get a lot from Nike Academy type places – think Jaheim Headley was there.
We’ve also signed Pat Jones from somewhere in Wales, can’t remember the club.
So it’s a bit more haphazard but the proof is in the number of players from the academy and B team playing at looking at home in the first team. A long way from where we were 10 years ago.
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Post by rockwall on Jun 27, 2023 8:36:03 GMT 1
It could be argued that at this moment in time, those involved in our Academy have an excellent record, with a number of Academy players making contributions to the first team. Nevertheless, as I’ve said before, it’ll be interesting to see what the new owner and CEO have in mind for the Academy set up I struggle to understand the model sometimes When we set out the likes of Tommy Smith (released by Man City) and Phil Billing were the shinning examples and reference points We as a club were going to Gegenpress from youth team to the First Team - and recruit to that model We had a B team, U19 and U17 and played friendlies across Europe against the likes of Bayern Munich Brexit did for the Phil Billing signings (Diarra etc the last of that bunch) We then randomly got two lads from Northern Ireland and no one else from Northern Ireland yet have clubs affiliated there We never scout an Irish player (used to get a few back in the day) We hardly do any Tommy Smith/ Harry Bunn signings - i.e 18 and released by a big side. Jon Russell is the only one I can think of in the last few seasons We don't seem to do any European friendlies or go to any international Tournaments We don't have a U17 team We do seem to play teams of 17 year olds against teams with far older boys and then watch them spend much of the season getting hammered by Chesterfield etc We seemed to have drifted a long way from the original blueprint Danny Grant was Irish. But I totally get your points. It seems from the outlook that their isn't any model. We seem to have a big turnover most seasons. We also seem to have a huge number of players for that level. Surely it would be better to focus on a smaller number?
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on Jun 27, 2023 11:19:42 GMT 1
I struggle to understand the model sometimes When we set out the likes of Tommy Smith (released by Man City) and Phil Billing were the shinning examples and reference points We as a club were going to Gegenpress from youth team to the First Team - and recruit to that model We had a B team, U19 and U17 and played friendlies across Europe against the likes of Bayern Munich Brexit did for the Phil Billing signings (Diarra etc the last of that bunch) We then randomly got two lads from Northern Ireland and no one else from Northern Ireland yet have clubs affiliated there We never scout an Irish player (used to get a few back in the day) We hardly do any Tommy Smith/ Harry Bunn signings - i.e 18 and released by a big side. Jon Russell is the only one I can think of in the last few seasons We don't seem to do any European friendlies or go to any international Tournaments We don't have a U17 team We do seem to play teams of 17 year olds against teams with far older boys and then watch them spend much of the season getting hammered by Chesterfield etc We seemed to have drifted a long way from the original blueprint Danny Grant was Irish. But I totally get your points. It seems from the outlook that their isn't any model. We seem to have a big turnover most seasons. We also seem to have a huge number of players for that level. Surely it would be better to focus on a smaller number? In terms of playing friendlies across Europe, Covid initially did for international travel to play matches, then when we were maybe able to do them again, budgets were cut. So hence we we've never really done it. I'm not quite sure of the talent level in NI to be honest. Brodie Spencer got in their full international side as an 18/19 year old and he's a million miles away from a Championship player at the moment. So not sure how many 16-18/19 year olds in NI would actually be Championship Academy quality. Danny Grant was said to be the hottest young talent in Irish football when we signed him. But even when fully fit struggled at Harrogate Town. So again, not sure on the quality. We have signed 18/19 year olds released from big club...Jaden Brown (2019) and Demeaco Duhaney (2018) from Spurs and Man City. And before them Jordi Hiwula from Man City. All of them England Youth Internationals. Just because they were at a big club doesn't mean they are any good. There isn't an U17s at the moment due to the fact that for this coming season and the 2 previous season, we haven't signed many 16 year old scholars, due to us having a bottle neck of young players. They've yet to announce any for this year, last year I think it was 5 and the year before 7. So they are trying to reduce the numbers of youngsters at the club. In terms of a plan for signing players, the plan is to sign 16 year olds released from other Academies and offer them Scholarship with us. Or to find kids that have not been in Academies and offer them Scholarships, Muz Olagunju & Jaheam Headley being 2 examples. Neo Eccleston - Chelsea Francis Hurl - Palace Haseeme Bakre - Brighton Feddie Fletcher - Brighton Omari Mriso - Brighton Temi Okuwa - Spurs Daniel Vorst - Everton Dylan Helliwell - Man City Cian Philpott - Man City Tom Iorpenda - Brighton Joseph Johnson - West Ham Hakeem Sandah - Spurs We've then also signed the likes of Ben Midgley and Kian Harratt from Blackburn & Barnsley and others from Middlesborough, Millwall, QPR etc. We then look to the non league for players. However, naturally there's not gonna be loads of players that can make the step up from Non League to Championship. The games program is all designed around player development, not results. They are looking to develop players that can play in the first team. So whilst on paper the results may often not look great. Individual player performances can be. And it's that development they are looking for.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jun 27, 2023 13:58:12 GMT 1
From KN's presser today, it sounds like building up the academy again may be on the agenda.
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basil
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Post by basil on Jun 27, 2023 17:58:29 GMT 1
From KN's presser today, it sounds like building up the academy again may be on the agenda. We'll have have it when we're back in the Prem.
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midge
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Post by midge on Jun 27, 2023 20:05:02 GMT 1
From KN's presser today, it sounds like building up the academy again may be on the agenda. It will be really interesting to observe how this progresses and how Brentford do this! I have said before on here, going back to the old structure is easier said than done. 9s to 16's 8 teams, how do you suddenly find 100 plus kids to fill out those squads!? Perhaps you start with teams every 2 years but that's 50 kids and even then, your pool is gonna be extremely limited as the vast majority of the best kids will already be at other clubs. One of the main reasons for the 'new structure' was that the quicker return on investment- take them at 16 and you will have a few potential 1st teamers or saleable assets within 3 to 4 years. 'Traditional' academies have always been seen as playing the 'long game' and starting from scratch has to be seen as the 'extremely long game'!?
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stable
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Post by stable on Jun 28, 2023 15:14:36 GMT 1
From KN's presser today, it sounds like building up the academy again may be on the agenda. It will be really interesting to observe how this progresses and how Brentford do this! I have said before on here, going back to the old structure is easier said than done. 9s to 16's 8 teams, how do you suddenly find 100 plus kids to fill out those squads!? Perhaps you start with teams every 2 years but that's 50 kids and even then, your pool is gonna be extremely limited as the vast majority of the best kids will already be at other clubs. One of the main reasons for the 'new structure' was that the quicker return on investment- take them at 16 and you will have a few potential 1st teamers or saleable assets within 3 to 4 years. 'Traditional' academies have always been seen as playing the 'long game' and starting from scratch has to be seen as the 'extremely long game'!? Easily sorted if we go down the Cameroon youth model
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jun 28, 2023 15:34:54 GMT 1
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midge
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Post by midge on Jun 28, 2023 17:15:46 GMT 1
It will be really interesting to observe how this progresses and how Brentford do this! I have said before on here, going back to the old structure is easier said than done. 9s to 16's 8 teams, how do you suddenly find 100 plus kids to fill out those squads!? Perhaps you start with teams every 2 years but that's 50 kids and even then, your pool is gonna be extremely limited as the vast majority of the best kids will already be at other clubs. One of the main reasons for the 'new structure' was that the quicker return on investment- take them at 16 and you will have a few potential 1st teamers or saleable assets within 3 to 4 years. 'Traditional' academies have always been seen as playing the 'long game' and starting from scratch has to be seen as the 'extremely long game'!? Easily sorted if we go down the Cameroon youth model Am afraid you've lost me there mate!?
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Post by Porrohman on Jun 28, 2023 17:20:51 GMT 1
Easily sorted if we go down the Cameroon youth model Am afraid you've lost me there mate!? I think he's suggesting they might not be quite as young as they claim to be 😉
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stable
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Post by stable on Jun 28, 2023 19:28:24 GMT 1
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midge
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Post by midge on Jun 28, 2023 19:58:33 GMT 1
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Post by dalesterrier on Jun 28, 2023 21:19:35 GMT 1
When did Jon Worthington become the academy manager?
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midge
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Post by midge on Jun 29, 2023 6:40:37 GMT 1
When did Jon Worthington become the academy manager? Around 12 months ago?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 29, 2023 8:14:49 GMT 1
TBF I knew he was coaching the academy but had no idea that he was managing it.
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incognito
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Post by incognito on Jun 29, 2023 8:52:00 GMT 1
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jun 29, 2023 9:53:55 GMT 1
Strange they've not announced the new scholars either - as mentioned by joburgjon it will be interesting to see whether they go for a smaller intake this year to ensure lots of game minutes for the lads in the Dev sides
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Post by emleyterrier on Jul 5, 2023 21:34:27 GMT 1
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jul 5, 2023 21:42:50 GMT 1
Interesting to see how the ex Arsenal & Man City lads, especially, get on.
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Jul 8, 2023 14:04:55 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS.
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Post by jqhtfc on Jul 8, 2023 15:06:26 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS. Yeah pretty poor I don’t even think they put the side out, lost 1-0 anyway
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Jul 8, 2023 15:37:18 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS. Yeah pretty poor I don’t even think they put the side out, lost 1-0 anyway It is true that Harrogate named their teams (each half)while we did nothing. Why they bother to tell supporters there is a match if they are not interested in giving any other information is beyond me.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 8, 2023 17:00:01 GMT 1
I thought Harrogate were our B Team.
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Post by rockwall on Jul 8, 2023 19:22:11 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS. B team should get a lot more coverage.
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Post by dewsburyterrier on Jul 8, 2023 20:39:00 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS. B team should get a lot more coverage. Exactly. Why bother telling supporters where to follow the B team and put nothing on about the game?
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Post by rockwall on Jul 8, 2023 20:40:57 GMT 1
B team should get a lot more coverage. Exactly. Why bother telling supporters where to follow the B team and put nothing on about the game? This exactly. And I know there are a lot of fans who actually like to see the development in young players, get to know a bit about them etc.
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Post by belizian on Jul 8, 2023 23:40:23 GMT 1
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midge
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Post by midge on Jul 9, 2023 8:01:52 GMT 1
It is a poor do that in order to get B team updates you have to go on Harrogate’s Twitter. Improve the communication DTS. Yeah pretty poor I don’t even think they put the side out, lost 1-0 anyway From what I know, team was; Chapman/Gio, Eccleston, Ologunju, Adewoju, Maroodza?? Iorpenda, Midgley, Bright, Rowe, Falls and another who I can't think of😬.
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on Jul 9, 2023 16:11:16 GMT 1
Yeah pretty poor I don’t even think they put the side out, lost 1-0 anyway From what I know, team was; Chapman/Gio, Eccleston, Ologunju, Adewoju, Maroodza?? Iorpenda, Midgley, Bright, Rowe, Falls and another who I can't think of😬. Glad to see Muz starting pre season
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