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Post by dalesterrier on Oct 14, 2023 18:00:06 GMT 1
In his examiner interview, KN says they will probably expand the academy further again in a few years time so clearly looking to really invest in it
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Sparrow
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Post by Sparrow on Oct 14, 2023 19:43:20 GMT 1
There's been lots of talk about the re-opening of the Academy and the potential loss of players to bigger clubs.....Well, Town could potentially stand to benefit from this. Let's say we sign a lad at 9. He stays with us for 6 years, then Liverpool come along and take him. We'd get £45,000 in an initial payment from Liverpool. If he goes on an get's a pro contact and plays just 10 matches for them before leaving, we'd get a further £150K. If he ends up bring pretty successful and plays 70 matches for them, we'd get £1m (on top of the origional £45K). That goes all the way up to £1.3m if he plays 100 matches for them. So whilst it certainly wont be the plan to lose loads of players to bigger and better Academies, losing a few that make it can bring in a bit of extra revenue Couple of points I would make here mate- firstly, I seem to remember one of Hoyle's beefs about the 'old' academy was the cost v output. Cost wise I seem to remember him quoting around £1m per year to run 10ish years ago!? Be interesting to see what it is now although think some of that is offset by Blue and White foundation. Output- Can you remember the last kid sold to a bigger club(or any club for that matter?)that fits your description!? Be interesting to see what they come up with in terms of a recruitment plan but as I have said many times, this is going to have to be a vast improvement on last time and that's before you even start to discuss all the other aspects, coaching etc! Oh yeah I completely agree. I’ve said before that i can’t remember a player that’s left our Academy for a bigger club, that’s then gone on to play for that club. Was just pointing out what is possible under EPPP and what might be part of their thinking. They’ve just started the recruitment process with a couple of Regional Lead Scouts and a Lead Video scout. Long way to go to get it fully staffed though |
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Post by detox on Oct 15, 2023 20:50:28 GMT 1
The 'Brentford model' didn't really work so back to the original plan it seems..
Given the ambitions of KN then hopefully the scouting network will see some improvement too..
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Oct 16, 2023 9:55:47 GMT 1
The 'Brentford model' didn't really work so back to the original plan it seems.. Given the ambitions of KN then hopefully the scouting network will see some improvement too.. Hard to say really I was sceptical at first and it's early days but I think Headley, Diarra and Camara will make Championship level or higher. Jones, Ayina (did well in SPL). Spencer (regular in SPL now), Bilo (Posh first choice keeper) injuring permitting should have decent careers so that's a pretty good return for two/ three years intake. There's may be one two more that make it at the pro level (Olagunju is one if he's over injuries previously looked a good prospect) Previously we used to find one League One/ Championship standard player per year (Smithies, Hunt, LOB, Holmes, Crooks, Windass). Jackson and Asterfield from the old academy No sure how much more a full Academy costs but I've been won over by the new approach. I also don't think we "did" the new approach right. For example recruitment was scattergun - we got two lads from Northern Ireland and then none since, we signed lads from London football clubs (XYZ, Lambeth Tigers) and then it dried up, we picked up players from smaller academies (Jones, Daley) and stopped etc. We also started out flying to play sides like Bayern Munich and now never seems to do these trips |
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Post by detox on Oct 16, 2023 10:13:56 GMT 1
The 'Brentford model' didn't really work so back to the original plan it seems.. Given the ambitions of KN then hopefully the scouting network will see some improvement too.. Hard to say really I was sceptical at first and it's early days but I think Headley, Diarra and Camara will make Championship level or higher. Jones, Ayina (did well in SPL). Spencer (regular in SPL now), Bilo (Posh first choice keeper) injuring permitting should have decent careers so that's a pretty good return for two/ three years intake. There's may be one two more that make it at the pro level (Olagunju if he's over injuries previously looked a good prospect) Previously we used to find one League One/ Championship standard player per year (Smithies, Hunt, LOB, Holmes, Crooks, Windass). Jackson and Asterfield from the old academy No sure how much more an a full Academy costs but I've been won over by the new approach. I also don't think we did the new approach right. For example recruitment was scattergun - we got two lads from Northern Ireland and then none, we signed lads from London football clubs (XYZ, Lambeth Tigers) and then it dried up, we picked up players from smaller academies (Jones, Daley) and stopped etc. We also started out flying to play sides like Bayern Munich and now never seems to do these trips did we receive some decent money for lthose lads who made it somewhere else ? I'm not really up to date on Academy stuff tbh other than I recall DH saying how the Brentford model was the way ahead.... |
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midge
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by midge on Oct 16, 2023 15:54:57 GMT 1
The 'Brentford model' didn't really work so back to the original plan it seems.. Given the ambitions of KN then hopefully the scouting network will see some improvement too.. Hard to say really I was sceptical at first and it's early days but I think Headley, Diarra and Camara will make Championship level or higher. Jones, Ayina (did well in SPL). Spencer (regular in SPL now), Bilo (Posh first choice keeper) injuring permitting should have decent careers so that's a pretty good return for two/ three years intake. There's may be one two more that make it at the pro level (Olagunju is one if he's over injuries previously looked a good prospect) Previously we used to find one League One/ Championship standard player per year (Smithies, Hunt, LOB, Holmes, Crooks, Windass). Jackson and Asterfield from the old academy No sure how much more a full Academy costs but I've been won over by the new approach. I also don't think we "did" the new approach right. For example recruitment was scattergun - we got two lads from Northern Ireland and then none since, we signed lads from London football clubs (XYZ, Lambeth Tigers) and then it dried up, we picked up players from smaller academies (Jones, Daley) and stopped etc. We also started out flying to play sides like Bayern Munich and now never seems to do these trips There were various elements to the 'current' system that have all seemed to be badged up as 'the Brentford model' but not really sure what that is/was anymore. I think the main elements which often gets missed are not only the cost of running the 9-16s model where these kids were being swallowed up by bigger academies(would imagine that being in London, Brentford's issues were bigger than ours) but also it was acknowledging that there is an issue where kids get to 18 at clubs, are not ready for the 1st team so get released and fall into a black hole. I would hope that the change by Town still incorporates some elements of this as I think the club have benefitted from this as you point out. As you also point out, there has definitely been a change of stance in the current system in terms of the recruitment and the way it is run from the 1st intake- Headley, Harratt etc, some of which relates the recruitment of overseas players(although that didn't really start until the year after with Diarra and Ayina etc) which was put down to Brexit changes. In terms of the London based academies, not quite sure why we have pretty much stopped ' fishing in that pool' although after that 1st year with Headley, Bellagambi and olagungu I don't think there has been anyone really since!? From a good start, the current system seems to have lost it's way a bit in terms of the recruitment and perhaps even games programme etc although it is only the oversea games which have gone by the by. As I said, I hope they keep some of the elements of the u23/bteam structure and if they want a good example of this then in our league you would probably look no further than Blackburn. They however are a cat one club so have much more investment going in!! |
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Post by tepidterrier on Oct 17, 2023 12:39:40 GMT 1
Spotted Bakre training with the first team in the inside training video. I know the B team tend to get involved, but to be mixing with the senior players at 17 can only be good. Also I think I heard Moore refer to a certain poster's son by his handle on DATM!
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Post by jqhtfc on Oct 17, 2023 16:10:13 GMT 1
Free 3-3 with Bolton today bakre scored again and Sturridge with two who I’m guessing is a trialist, town not done owt on the game so just going off what Bolton did on Twitter
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 17, 2023 17:50:27 GMT 1
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Post by yellowbelly on Oct 17, 2023 18:13:35 GMT 1
Two goals and an assist. Where did this Sturridge appear from ?
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Oct 17, 2023 18:25:35 GMT 1
D J Sturridge, son of Dean? Presumably on trial, he’s a free agent, 22, striker
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 17, 2023 18:46:49 GMT 1
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Post by jqhtfc on Oct 17, 2023 19:51:44 GMT 1
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by incognito on Oct 18, 2023 13:31:56 GMT 1
D J Sturridge, son of Dean? Presumably on trial, he’s a free agent, 22, striker Son of Dean, nephew of Simon, cousin of Daniel. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Oct 18, 2023 13:41:02 GMT 1
Good pedigree.
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Post by bells ringing :) on Oct 18, 2023 13:44:13 GMT 1
We probs wont sign him, he knows where the net is. We only seem to sign cf's , who are old past their best or don't know where the net is or both. He probs shcoked everyone that he knew were it was.
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Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 19, 2023 20:28:11 GMT 1
We probs wont sign him, he knows where the net is. We only seem to sign cf's , who are old past their best or don't know where the net is or both. He probs shcoked everyone that he knew were it was. Hudlin is a young, promising CF... Just saying. |
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Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
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Post by Melc on Oct 20, 2023 12:06:20 GMT 1
Notice his agent is Sturridge sports who happen to be Darren Moores agent as well. |
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Post by mosher on Oct 20, 2023 12:19:37 GMT 1
Notice his agent is Sturridge sports who happen to be Darren Moores agent as well. While it would be a nice conspiracy theory, I think if you dig deep enough you'll find links somewhere. Whether it be same agent, worked together at previous clubs or whatever. The footballing world is pretty small and there's only so many "approved" agents and agencies to go around. I don't think there's owt in it personally, but nothing would surprise me. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Oct 27, 2023 16:55:04 GMT 1
There's been lots of talk about the re-opening of the Academy and the potential loss of players to bigger clubs.....Well, Town could potentially stand to benefit from this. Let's say we sign a lad at 9. He stays with us for 6 years, then Liverpool come along and take him. We'd get £45,000 in an initial payment from Liverpool. If he goes on an get's a pro contact and plays just 10 matches for them before leaving, we'd get a further £150K. If he ends up bring pretty successful and plays 70 matches for them, we'd get £1m (on top of the origional £45K). That goes all the way up to £1.3m if he plays 100 matches for them. So whilst it certainly wont be the plan to lose loads of players to bigger and better Academies, losing a few that make it can bring in a bit of extra revenue Anyone who plays 70 games for Liverpool would be worth at least £50,000,000. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Nov 11, 2023 11:02:32 GMT 1
Quite the drubbing for the B Team at home to the mighty Fleetwood
The worry is these cup games are the ones we take seriously and look to win
May explain Moore’s reluctance to rely on more of these B team lads as getting easily beaten at home by fleetwoods reserve side is bluntly a million miles off being able to do a job in the championship
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by incognito on Nov 11, 2023 11:27:14 GMT 1
Quite the drubbing for the B Team at home to the mighty Fleetwood The worry is these cup games are the ones we take seriously and look to win May explain Moore’s reluctance to rely on more of these B team lads as getting easily beaten at home by fleetwoods reserve side is bluntly a million miles off being able to do a job in the championship "The mighty Fleetwood" have a Cat 2 academy and their U21s play together week in week out in PDL2. Not a major surprise that they beat a HTAFC team cobbled together from 50% U19 players. |
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Post by dm on Nov 11, 2023 19:33:33 GMT 1
Quite the drubbing for the B Team at home to the mighty Fleetwood The worry is these cup games are the ones we take seriously and look to win May explain Moore’s reluctance to rely on more of these B team lads as getting easily beaten at home by fleetwoods reserve side is bluntly a million miles off being able to do a job in the championship "The mighty Fleetwood" have a Cat 2 academy and their U21s play together week in week out in PDL2. Not a major surprise that they beat a HTAFC team cobbled together from 50% U19 players. Especially when we've had no interest in anything other than trying to tread water for 5 years. At every level of the club. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,609
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Post by goodbet on Nov 11, 2023 23:37:49 GMT 1
"The mighty Fleetwood" have a Cat 2 academy and their U21s play together week in week out in PDL2. Not a major surprise that they beat a HTAFC team cobbled together from 50% U19 players. Especially when we've had no interest in anything other than trying to tread water for 5 years. At every level of the club. If you tread water you are staying at the same level, we haven't. We have just got worse! |
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midge
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by midge on Nov 12, 2023 10:14:41 GMT 1
Quite the drubbing for the B Team at home to the mighty Fleetwood The worry is these cup games are the ones we take seriously and look to win May explain Moore’s reluctance to rely on more of these B team lads as getting easily beaten at home by fleetwoods reserve side is bluntly a million miles off being able to do a job in the championship I have seen many comments like this over the last few years when we lose to perceived 'lower standard academies' but drawing conclusions on isolated games with no context is pretty pointless, if a little predictable! |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on Nov 12, 2023 13:02:28 GMT 1
Speaking to a Man United Scout, who’s also been a scout for Man City, at the Huddersfield Schoolboys U14s match yesterday, chatted about various Academies and in his opinion Lincoln City have one of the best Academy set ups in the country. One of there teams recently gave Arsenal and absolute drubbing.
Sheffield Wednesdays U14’s are one of the best U14s teams in the country.
It was only a couple of seasons ago that we were thumping Premier League Wolves 7-1 and playing Multi-Billionaire owned Newcastle off the park in this competition.
A number of players that could have played on Friday night are either with the first team or injured
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Nov 13, 2023 8:46:34 GMT 1
My point is I was critical of Moore not looking at the b team last week with subs. I think this result vindicates him though
In a game the b team take seriously they lost so easily - and how many fleetwood players have first team experience if they’re that good
I can’t really blame DM for thinking none of this lads are close to doing a job at the championship and it would be cruel to expose them to a restless large crowd in the extreme event they were needed
There are/ shirts up for grabs between now and January and no one in the b team is really making a claim for those
Shame but as jeppo said the first team is the cold face/ results business and not the place for development. Development should happen before they are relied on in the first team
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Post by rockwall on Nov 13, 2023 9:43:31 GMT 1
My point is I was critical of Moore not looking at the b team last week with subs. I think this result vindicates him though In a game the b team take seriously they lost so easily - and how many fleetwood players have first team experience if they’re that good I can’t really blame DM for thinking none of this lads are close to doing a job at the championship and it would be cruel to expose them to a restless large crowd in the extreme event they were needed There are/ shirts up for grabs between now and January and no one in the b team is really making a claim for those Shame but as jeppo said the first team is the cold face/ results business and not the place for development. Development should happen before they are relied on in the first team Some people just don't understand that academy/B teams aren't always about the results. Never look too much at the result in these games. It's a learning process, each game their will be some form of instruction for learning. It could end up in a 7-0 loss, but it's getting the learning across that matters at this level. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Nov 13, 2023 10:48:57 GMT 1
My point is I was critical of Moore not looking at the b team last week with subs. I think this result vindicates him though In a game the b team take seriously they lost so easily - and how many fleetwood players have first team experience if they’re that good I can’t really blame DM for thinking none of this lads are close to doing a job at the championship and it would be cruel to expose them to a restless large crowd in the extreme event they were needed There are/ shirts up for grabs between now and January and no one in the b team is really making a claim for those Shame but as jeppo said the first team is the cold face/ results business and not the place for development. Development should happen before they are relied on in the first team Some people just don't understand that academy/B teams aren't always about the results. Never look too much at the result in these games. It's a learning process, each game their will be some form of instruction for learning. It could end up in a 7-0 loss, but it's getting the learning across that matters at this level. True but those cup games are the ones they target to win. To see how they are doing etc. So I would argue it should be more competitive if they’re on the track to first team The rest I get to a degree I. Terms of results. I mean the u19 never win, barely score an goal and are doing well if the opposition only score two. Their last 4 results have been; lost 5-1, 4-0, 3-0 and 5-0. All four games at home to Lincoln, Morecambe, Harrogate and burton www.htafc.com/academy/Under-19-fixtures/Hopefully one comes through in time and it’s worth it |
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Post by rockwall on Nov 13, 2023 11:58:50 GMT 1
Some people just don't understand that academy/B teams aren't always about the results. Never look too much at the result in these games. It's a learning process, each game their will be some form of instruction for learning. It could end up in a 7-0 loss, but it's getting the learning across that matters at this level. True but those cup games are the ones they target to win. To see how they are doing etc. So I would argue it should be more competitive if they’re on the track to first team The rest I get to a degree I. Terms of results. I mean the u19 never win, barely score an goal and are doing well if the opposition only score two. Their last 4 results have been; lost 5-1, 4-0, 3-0 and 5-0. All four games at home to Lincoln, Morecambe, Harrogate and burton www.htafc.com/academy/Under-19-fixtures/Hopefully one comes through in time and it’s worth it Agree the cup games should be taken more competitively. If it wasn't with the huge injury crisis I am sure we would have been able to take it more seriously. I think going back to an academy structure will be better long term. |
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