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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 12:26:54 GMT 1
This is why st sales are vital - pay on the gate is virtually non existent now. If bradford can only shift what they have after a wembley finale and promotion season combined with dirt cheap prices, they might as well pack up. Why, what's so poor about our sales. 10,500 ST holders and 2,500 Flexis? Our crowds are up by 4,000 currently. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 13:00:56 GMT 1
This is why st sales are vital - pay on the gate is virtually non existent now. If bradford can only shift what they have after a wembley finale and promotion season combined with dirt cheap prices, they might as well pack up. Why, what's so poor about our sales. 10,500 ST holders and 2,500 Flexis? Our crowds are up by 4,000 currently. Think your sales a pretty good if you don't think about Bradford being the 8th biggest city in the uk, theres only one club, and yours are the cheapest ST prices by some way. If you charged a 'normal' rate i doubt your average figure would be more than 8000. |
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 13:17:48 GMT 1
Why, what's so poor about our sales. 10,500 ST holders and 2,500 Flexis? Our crowds are up by 4,000 currently. Think your sales a pretty good if you don't think about Bradford being the 8th biggest city in the uk, theres only one club, and yours are the cheapest ST prices by some way. If you charged a 'normal' rate i doubt your average figure would be more than 8000. We haven't averaged less than 8,300 for 18 years, so I think your prediction is wayward. Hudders fans look at our attendances in recent years and think cheap ST's. All well and good, but the support is still there - season after season. We haven't sold less than 10,000 ST's for 7 years - and look what we've been served up barring last season. If it's not cheap ST's that are the topic of convo, it's comparing what we used to average in L1 when we were both there. Except, you were on the up and we were on an unstoppable downward spiral. There's a massive difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 13:18:16 GMT 1
it's the old argument isn't it, we've had many times on here...SC holders £15 per game, 'casual' fans £25.
For all the various offers and schemes Town have cobbled up in 18 months, the fact remains that less casual fans are turning up.
Home fans attending this season is not only less than last season, but less than when we were in League One.
I hate to keep stating the blindingly obvious over and over again, but £25 is too much.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 14:06:11 GMT 1
Why, what's so poor about our sales. 10,500 ST holders and 2,500 Flexis? Our crowds are up by 4,000 currently. Crowds? No. Like a lot of City fans you think the figure they give out is how many are there. Theres a big difference between tickets sold ( the figure they give) and the actual attendance and as a rule of thumb, the cheaper the tickets the bigger the gap is, as its not a big deal to miss a game if you haven't paid much for it. If you suddenly almost doubled your prices to a more normal price and made it £350 for a standard season ticket (and £25 on the door), I think you'd be shocked at how low your attendances would drop. |
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 14:23:12 GMT 1
Why, what's so poor about our sales. 10,500 ST holders and 2,500 Flexis? Our crowds are up by 4,000 currently. Crowds? No. Like a lot of City fans you think the figure they give out is how many are there. Theres a big difference between tickets sold ( the figure they give) and the actual attendance and as a rule of thumb, the cheaper the tickets the bigger the gap is, as its not a big deal to miss a game if you haven't paid much for it. If you suddenly almost doubled your prices to a more normal price and made it £350 for a standard season ticket (and £25 on the door), I think you'd be shocked at how low your attendances would drop. And AGAIN my point is completely bypassed. Pointlessly even trying to make debate when I'm repeating myself every other post. At times this season, there has looked be more in the ground than the official attendance given. Get your head round that one. |
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 14:25:29 GMT 1
Just one of the games this campaign...but really, there's only about 6,000 there and if we put ticket prices up to £400, we'd probably only average 3,217 or summet - but sold 6,000 at £400 the last time we were in L1.   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 14:29:39 GMT 1
go away Firth - aka Queeny - the most obnoxious attendance quoting moron on the internet. Completely disappeared when City were garbage and getting 6-7000 in division 4 on 100 quid season tickets, now back spouting his crap. Bilo Chicken Twinny and Firth all the same attendance nonsense, proved wrong time and time again, but still banging on about it. You include all sts and flexi card holders in your published attendance whether you like it or not it is a fact. Towns crowds arent brilliant and I ask you to find a serious post on here claiming otherwise, they are in line with similar towns ie Burnley Bolton Blackburn, but they are generally better than Bradfords all things considered. City averaged less than 3000 in 1975 and were very poor until the success of the 90s. Citys crowds based on population should easily be up there with Wolves or Leicester or Forest (they have immigrants too before you spout that old defence)but never have been even in the "glory" years.
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 14:32:48 GMT 1
Haha, alright pal.
Town averaged 3,600 in 1979 - aren't facts great.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 14:36:19 GMT 1
Yes queeny, City actually give out a figure thats SMALLER than the number who were there! LOL
£350 season tickets and we'll see if Im right. I will be.
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 14:41:02 GMT 1
Yes queeny, City actually give out a figure thats SMALLER than the number who were there! LOL £350 season tickets and we'll see if Im right. I will be. You don't know for a FACT just as much as I don't. But, what I do know is, I've been attending home games for many a year. I know what the stadium holds and I've seen crowds as low as 3,500 and high as 24,000. Never has the attendance looked suspiciously high for a couple of seasons, now. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 14:42:49 GMT 1
Write to Lawn and ask him what the actual crowd figures are. You'll get a shock.
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 14:47:42 GMT 1
Write to Lawn and ask him what the actual crowd figures are. You'll get a shock. Given your confidence, I was sort of hoping you would factually state them instead? Afterall, you have written to him already, haven't you? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 15:44:05 GMT 1
I can factually state that City, like most clubs including Town, include all ST holders not in attendance in their gate figure. City also have the flexi scheme and they all get counted too whether they're there or not.
I can factually state therefore that he figure they give out is ALWAYS more than the actual attendance and the suggestion it is less is laughable.
I can factually state that its logical that the cheaper the tickets were to start with, the bigger the gap is between actual attendance and published 'gate' figure, as the incentive to attend is reduced.
We had the same effect in our centenary season when STs were £100.
A respected poster on here is friends with one of your ticket office staff and was told 2 or 3 years ago that the true gates were usually between 8500-9500, even though the published gate figure was always around the 11000 figure.
Like I say- ask your CEO. You'll get a shock.
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 17:51:12 GMT 1
I can factually state that City, like most clubs including Town, include all ST holders not in attendance in their gate figure. City also have the flexi scheme and they all get counted too whether they're there or not. I can factually state therefore that he figure they give out is ALWAYS more than the actual attendance and the suggestion it is less is laughable. I can factually state that its logical that the cheaper the tickets were to start with, the bigger the gap is between actual attendance and published 'gate' figure, as the incentive to attend is reduced. We had the same effect in our centenary season when STs were £100. A respected poster on here is friends with one of your ticket office staff and was told 2 or 3 years ago that the true gates were usually between 8500-9500, even though the published gate figure was always around the 11000 figure. Like I say- ask your CEO. You'll get a shock. You still haven't proved that I'm wrong - and for the third consecutive reply, you've completely missed the point. So, our total number or ST's and Flexis for this season is just over 13,100 - so tell me, of we include all ST holders and flexis on to the attendance whether they're there or not, why, WHY, have we had couple of 12,000+ attendances this season? What a redundant statement to make. I have already conceded the fact that we USED to include them - that was never in question, OR the point I was making. So, factually back up your point like I have, and I'll reconsider whether you're wrong or WRONG. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 18:46:46 GMT 1
Haha, alright pal. Town averaged 3,600 in 1979 - aren't facts great. where have I said Town get big crowds? Where have I said anyone cares apart from Bradford fans on the internet? just responding to the usual crap you lot post younger ones only - older City fans dont do go on about it because they remember: 1981 4 2858 1980 4 5774 1979 4 3924 1978 3 5103 1977 4 5630 1976 4 2916 1975 4 3191 1974 4 3797 1973 4 3498 1972 3 5042 the 70s werent great for you were they? |
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Post by queenybantam07 on Feb 24, 2014 19:28:50 GMT 1
Haha, alright pal. Town averaged 3,600 in 1979 - aren't facts great. where have I said Town get big crowds? Where have I said anyone cares apart from Bradford fans on the internet? just responding to the usual crap you lot post younger ones only - older City fans dont do go on about it because they remember: 1981 4 2858 1980 4 5774 1979 4 3924 1978 3 5103 1977 4 5630 1976 4 2916 1975 4 3191 1974 4 3797 1973 4 3498 1972 3 5042 the 70s werent great for you were they? Where did I say we get big crowds? Where did I say that I cared? Was there a post regarding Bradford City that was factually incorrect? Yes. Did I reply in the right manner and rightfully correct a users post? Yes. Is this a forum? Yes Am I 'Firthy'? No. Do I like cheese? Yes, but only when it's melted. |
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Post by terrierbadman on Feb 24, 2014 20:44:53 GMT 1
Think your sales a pretty good if you don't think about Bradford being the 8th biggest city in the uk, theres only one club, and yours are the cheapest ST prices by some way. If you charged a 'normal' rate i doubt your average figure would be more than 8000. We haven't averaged less than 8,300 for 18 years, so I think your prediction is wayward. Hudders fans look at our attendances in recent years and think cheap ST's. All well and good, but the support is still there - season after season. We haven't sold less than 10,000 ST's for 7 years - and look what we've been served up barring last season. If it's not cheap ST's that are the topic of convo, it's comparing what we used to average in L1 when we were both there. Except, you were on the up and we were on an unstoppable downward spiral. There's a massive difference. On the up? We were woeful back then and spent a season in league two. Mick wadsworth anybody. |
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Post by terrierbadman on Feb 24, 2014 20:45:11 GMT 1
Think your sales a pretty good if you don't think about Bradford being the 8th biggest city in the uk, theres only one club, and yours are the cheapest ST prices by some way. If you charged a 'normal' rate i doubt your average figure would be more than 8000. We haven't averaged less than 8,300 for 18 years, so I think your prediction is wayward. Hudders fans look at our attendances in recent years and think cheap ST's. All well and good, but the support is still there - season after season. We haven't sold less than 10,000 ST's for 7 years - and look what we've been served up barring last season. If it's not cheap ST's that are the topic of convo, it's comparing what we used to average in L1 when we were both there. Except, you were on the up and we were on an unstoppable downward spiral. There's a massive difference. On the up? We were woeful back then and spent a season in league two. Mick wadsworth anybody. |
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Post by smax on Feb 24, 2014 21:11:46 GMT 1
town just have this fixed fan base, whateva happens, if we got in premier then loads who never go will jump on the bandwagon. get used to it. our home atmospheres are pathetic. This is why we need to get behind this home end nick. Give it a chance and back it. Let's try recreate an atmosphere like it once was in the cowshed even if it's only recreate a little bit. Unless we try we don't know, results recently isn't ideal but we can't turn our backs on the players, we must support them. I hope to see you in the home end on sat'day! Take a look at Crystal Palace approx 15000 in the Championship , and 23000 in the Prem,but these boys can really create an atmosphere. We should be the same,however Town fans are too reserved and always will be. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 21:20:59 GMT 1
This is why we need to get behind this home end nick. Give it a chance and back it. Let's try recreate an atmosphere like it once was in the cowshed even if it's only recreate a little bit. Unless we try we don't know, results recently isn't ideal but we can't turn our backs on the players, we must support them. I hope to see you in the home end on sat'day! Take a look at Crystal Palace approx 15000 in the Championship , and 23000 in the Prem,but these boys can really create an atmosphere. We should be the same,however Town fans are too reserved and always will be. I sort of agree with you smax. The crystal palace thing is right, and IMO they are the best home fans and have the best atmosphere in england. The noise and atmosphere is class. They support there team even when they are loosing. id be interested to see how many ST holders at palace are below the age of 40 and then same for town. I heard a stat ont wireless that the average age of a ST holder in 1972 was 24. Now it's 42. I don't think it's that towns fans are to reserved I just think we don't have enough 'next generation' fans coming. IMO of course. |
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Post by terrierbadman on Feb 24, 2014 21:35:35 GMT 1
Apart from big games and local derbys 95 percent of English grounds are like morgues.
Don't believe the hype that certain local clubs grounds are like a wall of noise. I've been to valley parade numerous times as a neutral and hand on heart would say the atmosphere is worst than at town. Elland Road also is terrible apart from a game that means something.
That's English football for you. For big games, local derbys etc I personally don't think towns is that bad.
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Post by smax on Feb 24, 2014 21:38:48 GMT 1
Take a look at Crystal Palace approx 15000 in the Championship , and 23000 in the Prem,but these boys can really create an atmosphere. We should be the same,however Town fans are too reserved and always will be. I sort of agree with you smax. The crystal palace thing is right, and IMO they are the best home fans and have the best atmosphere in england. The noise and atmosphere is class. They support there team even when they are loosing. id be interested to see how many ST holders at palace are below the age of 40 and then same for town. I heard a stat ont wireless that the average age of a ST holder in 1972 was 24. Now it's 42. I don't think it's that towns fans are to reserved I just think we don't have enough 'next generation' fans coming. IMO of course. Fair point ,Ben ,about the age stats. I think it proves a club our sort of size can actually create an intimidating atmosphere |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 21:46:25 GMT 1
I sort of agree with you smax. The crystal palace thing is right, and IMO they are the best home fans and have the best atmosphere in england. The noise and atmosphere is class. They support there team even when they are loosing. id be interested to see how many ST holders at palace are below the age of 40 and then same for town. I heard a stat ont wireless that the average age of a ST holder in 1972 was 24. Now it's 42. I don't think it's that towns fans are to reserved I just think we don't have enough 'next generation' fans coming. IMO of course. Fair point ,Ben ,about the age stats. I think it proves a club our sort of size can actually create an intimidating atmosphere Yea deffinately mate. We can if we can all get behind the home end and make a differance. Footballs problem is it's priced out the typical 'working man'. There's so many factors I suppose that's crippling football attendances but IMO we have to adress the lack of youth ST holders at our club. The home end is a positive step, and if it's a success and we get what we want then there will be no excuse at the prices that have been suggested. Suppose it's all about walking the walk now eh? |
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Post by space hardware on Feb 24, 2014 22:00:09 GMT 1
The Palace fans are something else, really impressive. They unashamedly model themselves on the European Ultras, the big Italian clubs and the likes of St Pauli etc., and the atmosphere they generate is top drawer.
I'd love to see us replicate that but I don't think there's the will amongst our fans for that level of support, and there's obviously the problem of stewarding. Would we get away with the sort of orchestrated display they put on for the Man Utd game last week? With John Robinson and his mates?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 22:12:49 GMT 1
The Palace fans are something else, really impressive. They unashamedly model themselves on the European Ultras, the big Italian clubs and the likes of St Pauli etc., and the atmosphere they generate is top drawer. I'd love to see us replicate that but I don't think there's the will amongst our fans for that level of support, and there's obviously the problem of stewarding. Would we get away with the sort of orchestrated display they put on for the Man Utd game last week? With John Robinson and his mates? I think what palace show space, is that it can be done if you really want it. Fuck bureaucracy, H+S and people with degrees in clipboard management. Do what's got to be done. Realistically, what's so dangerous about how palace support there club at home games? Be interested to find out how they went about setting up the match day experience. They have flags, banners, drummer, streamers, hold up cards, capo's, and most importantly, the license to do it. |
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Post by space hardware on Feb 24, 2014 22:15:16 GMT 1
The Palace fans are something else, really impressive. They unashamedly model themselves on the European Ultras, the big Italian clubs and the likes of St Pauli etc., and the atmosphere they generate is top drawer. I'd love to see us replicate that but I don't think there's the will amongst our fans for that level of support, and there's obviously the problem of stewarding. Would we get away with the sort of orchestrated display they put on for the Man Utd game last week? With John Robinson and his mates? I think what palace show space, is that it can be done if you really want it. Fuck bureaucracy, H+S and people with degrees in clipboard management. Do what's got to be done. Realistically, what's so dangerous about how palace support there club at home games? Be interested to find out how they went about setting up the match day experience. They have flags, banners, drummer, streamers, hold up cards, capo's, and most importantly, the license to do it. It would probably be worth contacting them, see how they went about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 22:16:38 GMT 1
I think what palace show space, is that it can be done if you really want it. Fuck bureaucracy, H+S and people with degrees in clipboard management. Do what's got to be done. Realistically, what's so dangerous about how palace support there club at home games? Be interested to find out how they went about setting up the match day experience. They have flags, banners, drummer, streamers, hold up cards, capo's, and most importantly, the license to do it. It would probably be worth contacting them, see how they went about it. Might have a butchers in there forums. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 24, 2014 22:21:23 GMT 1
I can factually state that City, like most clubs including Town, include all ST holders not in attendance in their gate figure. City also have the flexi scheme and they all get counted too whether they're there or not. I can factually state therefore that he figure they give out is ALWAYS more than the actual attendance and the suggestion it is less is laughable. I can factually state that its logical that the cheaper the tickets were to start with, the bigger the gap is between actual attendance and published 'gate' figure, as the incentive to attend is reduced. We had the same effect in our centenary season when STs were £100. A respected poster on here is friends with one of your ticket office staff and was told 2 or 3 years ago that the true gates were usually between 8500-9500, even though the published gate figure was always around the 11000 figure. Like I say- ask your CEO. You'll get a shock. You still haven't proved that I'm wrong - and for the third consecutive reply, you've completely missed the point. So, our total number or ST's and Flexis for this season is just over 13,100 - so tell me, of we include all ST holders and flexis on to the attendance whether they're there or not, why, WHY, have we had couple of 12,000+ attendances this season? What a redundant statement to make. I have already conceded the fact that we USED to include them - that was never in question, OR the point I was making. So, factually back up your point like I have, and I'll reconsider whether you're wrong or WRONG. Ive forgotten what your point was. The only stat i can find on the web giving your ST sales, including flexi things is 12,700, so Ill have to concede it looks like only flexi card holders who attend are counted, which is why you've had gate figures of a few hundred below that. ST holders will still be included, attending or not. The flexi card thing is a very good idea though. Might be something Town should look at. Out of interest, how many ST do you think you'd sell if the prices almost doubled to £350 ? Think my estimate of 8000 is too low i presume? I actually applaud City for their pricing policy as they'll know they could sell 8000 STs at that price and it would make them a sight more money than they do now. But the prices they have allows a lot more people to go to games. Again something Town should consider. |
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Post by starchaser on Feb 25, 2014 21:07:24 GMT 1
If Town ever get to the Premier League we will pretty much mirror Wigan for crowds & away following.
Which means you'll see a full house only for the top games ie. Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etc...& we definitely woul;d not sell out for Sky games & the rest for fixtures like Southampton, Palace etc you would see 15000 crowds just like Wigan got.
The mid - table games but big followings like Stoke, Villa, Everton etc would attract 18-19000 dependent on how well we were doing & only because there would always be pretty much a full 4000 in the away end.
Face facts folks this in reality is the size of our club & although many of us may have joined the band wagon where people took the p!ss out of Wigan when they saw empty seats on match of the day for the majority of their games, it would be the same at Town..as we have a very similar following.
New fans would definitely not turn up on a regular basis to watch Town in the premier league paying higher prices, it would be just pick & choose the odd big game.
I don't know why many folk think we would suddenly get thousands more people turning up, it just would not happen.
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