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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 10, 2014 16:46:27 GMT 1
bottom line..
we can all change legally binding agreements to suit our present situation or nobody can..
this government and successive ones have always screwed the working people because they thought and still do, that we will all put up with the top end making fortunes and the bottom end taking without putting anything in.
if this continues, they will find out that they are wrong. Im already aware of 5000 pensioners who all agree not to pay their council tax next april. Lets see how long it takes their local council to sort that. Their local council is still chasing 285 people for @arrears to their rates@ !!!!!!!!!!!
non violent resistance, don't go out and fight the Police(who are being screwed just as much as anyone else) hit the bastards where it hurts...
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Post by blauundweiss on Jul 10, 2014 17:12:31 GMT 1
There's a wider picture to be looked at here. This government cut the top rate of tax which cost roughly 3-4 Bn a year, as tax cuts are really government spending. The question is where does this money go? Is it re-cycled back into the wider economy as believers in 'trickle-down' economics would state or has it simply been put into savings schemes or sent off-shore? All evidence points to it being the latter.
If this money was instead spread out in terms of pay-rises to the middle-classes (for want of a better description) this would be much more likely to be spent, therefore stimulating demand and more economic activity. The danger is that the real economic drivers of economies are being slowly starved of the ability to create demand. This will cause immense damage in the long-term if it continues. Even Henry Ford worked out you need to pay people well otherwise there will be no-one to buy your products. It's about time we re-learnt this and stopped this race to the bottom.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 10, 2014 17:15:28 GMT 1
bottom line.. we can all change legally binding agreements to suit our present situation or nobody can.. this government and successive ones have always screwed the working people because they thought and still do, that we will all put up with the top end making fortunes and the bottom end taking without putting anything in. if this continues, they will find out that they are wrong. Im already aware of 5000 pensioners who all agree not to pay their council tax next april. Lets see how long it takes their local council to sort that. Their local council is still chasing 285 people for @arrears to their rates@ !!!!!!!!!!! non violent resistance, don't go out and fight the Police(who are being screwed just as much as anyone else) hit the bastards where it hurts... It's a nice notion but our entire economy now is propped up by debt ... owed to foreign governments and institutions If enough people avoided paying tax and the foreign institutes felt that Britain would default on their debt they would take flight and we'd go the way of Greece in a few weeks or if we were lucky Ireland. I reckon the Public sector workers would complain then: "Irish civil servants are facing a torrid 2011, with the pay of new recruits to be slashed by 10pc, the pensions of working age individuals reduced by up to 8pc, and 18,500 staff – 6pc of the entire public sector – to be made redundant." www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8187576/Irelands-austerity-budget-puts-the-squeeze-on-public-sector-workers.html |
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Post by tafftheterrier on Jul 10, 2014 17:49:21 GMT 1
Some interesting reading on this subject, varied views a plenty.
I know a teacher, fireman and various people who work for the police, the police complain more than the others.
Fireman loves his job with all the time off he gets, does tiling on the side.
Can anyone guess his % of actually working for the fire brigade? (Getting called out etc)
I was shocked when he told me and he laughed about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 18:02:22 GMT 1
Some interesting reading on this subject, varied views a plenty. I know a teacher, fireman and various people who work for the police, the police complain more than the others. Fireman loves his job with all the time off he gets, does tiling on the side. Can anyone guess his % of actually working for the fire brigade? (Getting called out etc) I was shocked when he told me and he laughed about it. Out of an 11 hour day he should work for 9 hours. That's an hour dinner half hour for break in the morning and again in the afternoon. Anything else and his boss wants reporting. It's not just fire calls it's also fire prevention. Visiting workplaces to do risk information plans, home fire safety visits, school galas, year 5 school talks, equipment maintenance, station routines, physical training and then actual drill or training for fire calls. But I'm sure your "mate" doesn't do any of that. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 10, 2014 18:02:35 GMT 1
I work for the NHS and they've savaged the NHS penison scheme That's just not true (I mean the 2nd bit, no the 1st!  ). As you know, the previous benefit levels were calculated decades ago when life expectancy was lower than it is now. As life expectancy rises, then either you have to pay more into your pension, work longer or accept that future benefits will accrue at lower rates, otherwise the scheme will simply collapse. The scheme (as it stood) was simply unsustainable. DB pension schemes have virtually disappeared, apart from in the public sector. Rather than 'savaging the NHS pension scheme', what they've actually done is to reduce the benefits that you will accrue in the future, but not those you've already built up. You still have death in service, dependents pension & automatic increases (this latter point costs a fortune in the personal pension sector). Whilst your new benefits aren't quite as good as they used to be they are still miles better than what you would get for the same money in a personal pension. To be fair Rocky, I don't disagree with any of that and I know you can't get better on the 'high street' and I know its a damn good pension, its just that they've constantly been shifting the goalposts constantly over the last few years. I've actually taken a pay cut this year to cover the increase in pension contributions, ok some people have had it worse, but with no above inflation pay increase, I'll be worse off in the long run. |
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Post by tafftheterrier on Jul 10, 2014 18:09:39 GMT 1
Some interesting reading on this subject, varied views a plenty. I know a teacher, fireman and various people who work for the police, the police complain more than the others. Fireman loves his job with all the time off he gets, does tiling on the side. Can anyone guess his % of actually working for the fire brigade? (Getting called out etc) I was shocked when he told me and he laughed about it. Out of an 11 hour day he should work for 9 hours. That's an hour dinner half hour for break in the morning and again in the afternoon. Anything else and his boss wants reporting. It's not just fire calls it's also fire prevention. Visiting workplaces to do risk information plans, home fire safety visits, school galas, year 5 school talks, equipment maintenance, station routines, physical training and then actual drill or training for fire calls. But I'm sure your "mate" doesn't do any of that. Less than 10% of his time lol. He's one happy fireman! |
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Post by terracesider on Jul 10, 2014 21:11:09 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go....
As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is:
How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations???
Just a thought....
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Post by barnsleydaz on Jul 10, 2014 21:17:18 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Sorry this thread is only active between the hours of 8:00am and 6:00 pm. |
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Post by H7 on Jul 10, 2014 21:31:31 GMT 1
I work in the private sector and I deal with people in the public sector on a daily basis... The experience I've had is that a lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time... There are some scandalous wastes of money in terms of spending budgets (not their money they are spending so) but then again there are people who are extremely good at what they do, very motivated and get stuff done... A broad spectrum really...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:36:23 GMT 1
I work in the private sector and I deal with people in the public sector on a daily basis... The experience I've had is that a lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time... There are some scandalous wastes of money in terms of spending budgets (not their money they are spending so) but then again there are people who are extremely good at what they do, very motivated and get stuff done... A broad spectrum really... "A lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time" words fail me they really do. |
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Post by H7 on Jul 10, 2014 21:43:53 GMT 1
I work in the private sector and I deal with people in the public sector on a daily basis... The experience I've had is that a lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time... There are some scandalous wastes of money in terms of spending budgets (not their money they are spending so) but then again there are people who are extremely good at what they do, very motivated and get stuff done... A broad spectrum really... "A lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time" words fail me they really do. Just from my personal experience mate ... Like I said also some complete opposite, always going to be the case with anything in life |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:45:36 GMT 1
"A lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time" words fail me they really do. Why? Seems pretty true to me... "What?! You expect us to work until we're 60!" "What?! You expect us to accept no pay rise other than our yearly increment (aka pay rise)!" "What?! You expect us to be happy when we have to work for 195 days a year!" Yeah, really hard done by. I have so much sympathy when their self serving unions convince them to hold the country to ransom.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:57:34 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day days to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Yeah and the other 10,000 posts they've racked up in their " lunch hours". |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 10, 2014 22:03:52 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day days to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Yeah and the other 10,000 posts they've racked up in their " lunch hours". Being a true Trotskyite I've been on strike for 6 years  |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Jul 10, 2014 22:28:44 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Erm... Perhaps they're all on strike (hence the topic) perhaps? But don't let your moment of forgetfulness spoil your cheap shot |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:52:13 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day days to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Yeah and the other 10,000 posts they've racked up in their " lunch hours". 6000 posts since 2009 that's around 3.5 a day... Wow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:55:19 GMT 1
Interesting thread: Plenty of reasoned debate and rational discussion - not sure what it's doing on the main board of a Town M.B. but there you go.... As a retired private sector worker (I didn't realise until this last few minutes that there is such a chasm between my former colleagues and those who have to earn a crust in the "public sector) the obvious question running through my mind is: How do so many folk - considering that most of the contributions were made to the thread much earlier in the day - have time during a busy working day to be able to write long erudite pieces in some cases amounting to mini dissertations??? Just a thought.... Shifts. Same reason I've just got home whilst you've probably been scratching your arse on the sofa for 5 hours ;-) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 23:11:41 GMT 1
"A lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time" words fail me they really do. Why? Seems pretty true to me... "What?! You expect us to work until we're 60!" "What?! You expect us to accept no pay rise other than our yearly increment (aka pay rise)!" "What?! You expect us to be happy when we have to work for 195 days a year!" Yeah, really hard done by. I have so much sympathy when their self serving unions convince them to hold the country to ransom.... Each and every point you made there is total bollocks. Point 1. If the contract I signed in 2002 stated I worked until 60 I would have no argument. It didn't and therefore this government saw fit to change our contracts on a whim. Imagine deciding to only pay half your council tax, would you get away with it? No! Point 2. A 1% pay rise year on year is lower than inflation and in real terms a pay CUT. Add to that the 2% pension increase and you see why 1% isn't realistic. Still, nobody is complaining about that. Point 3. Define a day? If a "day" is 40 hours over a 7 day period then firefighters actually do the equivalent of 42 over 7 days. More than the average private sector worker. Nobody is complaining about that though so keep on throwing your childish ill thought out comments in there. It makes you look daft. Maybe if you had applied yourself a bit more you could be afforded some of the "perks" public sector workers get over the private sector. Then again I guess it doesn't take too much skill to cut a 4 year old girls lifeless body out of a car crash and watch as the paramedics battle in vain to save her. I would trade every penny I own not to have that image in my head. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 23:39:05 GMT 1
Yeah and the other 10,000 posts they've racked up in their " lunch hours". 6000 posts since 2009 that's around 3.5 a day... Wow. Think that's touched a nerve.. Did I mention a mere 6000 posts?? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 0:00:08 GMT 1
In Hilly's defence at least 4000 of them were aimed at me during the shares campaign!
He is bang on the money on this thread though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 0:48:30 GMT 1
A fireman friend of mine used to work the night shift at Todmorden Fire Station. He worked so hard and was (presumably) so badly paid that he had to have a virtually full time, tax free, day job cleaning windows as well.
His night time on the job kipping was so knackering that he was forced to retire in his early fifties.
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Post by Skint Terriers on Jul 11, 2014 1:51:35 GMT 1
Alex seems to have a bad past with firemen
caught his mum and dad doing role play by any chance?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 11, 2014 3:44:57 GMT 1
Failed the aptitude test was my guess
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Post by buckers on Jul 11, 2014 6:29:53 GMT 1
"A lot of the public sector feel very sorry for themselves a lot of the time" words fail me they really do. Why? Seems pretty true to me... "What?! You expect us to work until we're 60!" "What?! You expect us to accept no pay rise other than our yearly increment (aka pay rise)!" "What?! You expect us to be happy when we have to work for 195 days a year!" Yeah, really hard done by. I have so much sympathy when their self serving unions convince them to hold the country to ransom.... You have 3 increments within a grade I don't know anyone that isn't on the top increment at Kirklees. That increment doesn't change you can't go higher or lower so how is that a pay rise? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 6:51:42 GMT 1
A fireman friend of mine used to work the night shift at Todmorden Fire Station. He worked so hard and was (presumably) so badly paid that he had to have a virtually full time, tax free, day job cleaning windows as well. His night time on the job kipping was so knackering that he was forced to retire in his early fifties. When you say "used" to how far back are you talking? Todmorden is a retained station (part time) and firefighting is their part time job so this job "on the side" is likely to be his main source of income. |
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Post by galphamer74 on Jul 11, 2014 8:15:11 GMT 1
I fully support the strikes, and I don't work in the public sector. The real issue here is that we have a government that is almost completely from a public school background, who's primary concern is to safeguard the the top 2% of society to the detriment of the other 98%.
This government talks pay freezes for nurses & teachers whilst allowing chief execs of NHS trusts to receive huge pay increases, quite often rewarding failure.
In the private sector banks pay top bosses huge bonuses, again quite often for less than impressive results,whilst making huge redundancies to Lower level staff.
Make no mistake this is a dangerous government that's using economic crisis to justify their policies.
More worryingly normal working people who should feel a sense of kinship with the strikers are now actually starting to believe the demonising drivel that this government is trying to spin.
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Post by space hardware on Jul 11, 2014 8:40:55 GMT 1
A fireman friend of mine used to work the night shift at Todmorden Fire Station. He worked so hard and was (presumably) so badly paid that he had to have a virtually full time, tax free, day job cleaning windows as well. His night time on the job kipping was so knackering that he was forced to retire in his early fifties. When you say "used" to how far back are you talking? Todmorden is a retained station (part time) and firefighting is their part time job so this job "on the side" is likely to be his main source of income. My kids go to school with the son of a current full-time fireman. He works on the side as a window cleaner with his mate, who is also a full time fireman. |
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Post by Tanzanian Terrier on Jul 11, 2014 8:42:31 GMT 1
Not really, you got the wrong end of the stick. My argument is that I think the striking public sector workers are on a far better deal than they would be in the private sector, so they should suck it up and accept that change is needed due to the aging population, rather than trying to hold the country to ransom. I'm sick of people whinging who can retire up to 15 years earlier than me, will get a far better pension, or who only have to work for 195 days a year. If they think they're unfairly treated, they should try the private sector, where they may be surprised to find that things aren't as rosy. Striking because people who've only just joined the fire service are being expected to work until your 60, is grating when most of us will be 67-70. Wrong again. There's a lot of firefighters who will have to work till 67 to achieve full pension. The 60 only accounts for those who would have been entitled to retire at 50. Under the current proposals only people in their last few years will retire at 55. This is a divide and conquer tactic and nothing more. I agree but the fire service and ambulance service ARE NOT striking for them reasons Firefighters work a minimum 48 hours a week. Your argument is flawed. The uk average is 40 hours per week. And they get bank holidays, Christmas etc... The firefighters work shifts (shift working is proven to lower life expectancy greatly) and they cover every single day of the year irrespective of public holidays or events. I left because I was able to, I had continued 12 months beyond my retirement date because I really enjoyed the particular job I was doing at that time and was by then paying 12.5% of salary as pension contributions. I cannot argue that I left on a reasonable pension but it was all the other changes, such as increased pension contributions, changes in conditions of service and was fortunate to find the opportunity I am now in. Yes I receive my pension but I was not ready to retire and hence where I am today and yes I receive considerably more than I did before but that was not the reason I left. I left school at 16 and joined the army and did 11 years there and then into another public sector role and where I retired but I am now in the private sector. Certainly from my point of view this company is not as slick as I expected and in many ways the public sector can teach a few things to the private sector |
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Post by rocky on Jul 11, 2014 9:00:35 GMT 1
I fully support the strikes, and I don't work in the public sector. The real issue here is that we have a government that is almost completely from a public school background, who's primary concern is to safeguard the the top 2% of society to the detriment of the other 98%. This government talks pay freezes for nurses & teachers whilst allowing chief execs of NHS trusts to receive huge pay increases, quite often rewarding failure. In the private sector banks pay top bosses huge bonuses, again quite often for less than impressive results,whilst making huge redundancies to Lower level staff. Make no mistake this is a dangerous government that's using economic crisis to justify their policies. More worryingly normal working people who should feel a sense of kinship with the strikers are now actually starting to believe the demonising drivel that this government is trying to spin. A lot of that is political & I certainly don't want to argue politics with you, but I don't support the strikes. The reason I don't is that public sector workers have a benefit package that the rest of us can only dream of, yet many of them conveniently overlook that when they complain about being squeezed by the government. I've already talked about pensions in this thread so I won't go there again, apart from to say that pensions in the public sector are still massively better value than a personal pension, for the same level of contribution and that's both before and after retirement. Then there's the public sector sick pay package at 6 months full pay, 6 months half pay. Such benefits are generally not available to the masses in the private sector. If a 50 year old on £20,000 (for example) were buying that cover (through an insurance policy), it would cost around £100 per month. I was talking to someone the other week who's been off work due to stress for the last 4 months! Guess who he works for? I agree public sector workers are relatively poorly paid, but IMO their very generous benefits package makes up for that. |
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