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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 19:23:41 GMT 1
I don't live in the area, but follow him on twitter along with Barry Sheerman just for a nosey. McCartney seems decent and a good MP. Sheerman comes across as a plank... that's probably a generation thing on using twitter... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 19:25:54 GMT 1
When Labour were last in power, the personal tax free allowance was around, 6.5k. Now it's 10.6k, but of course you have to work to gain from that. So I do vote Tory, because apart from that they are, as many have said all the bloody same. It's nothing whatever to do with being posh, snobby or whatever. My Dad still living in Hudds at Waterloo, was a Bus Driver and voted Tory. Not because he was a right wing racist or whatever, just couldn't stand giving the money he earned in Taxes to folk who simply didn't deserve it. Politics of envy, as he always used to say, wanting to share all our money out so nicely, except of course they don't. Of course once upon a time, there was a decent chance of working your way to the top 10% earners, now there's no chance for just about anybody. Still Dean managed it. As a side note, whilst retired, I've done the papers for the local shop for over 6 years now. That is "paperboy" and I pay tax on it. NEVER in that time, in over £200 every year in Christmas tips has one penny come from the posh socialists who read The Guardian. I deliver 4 of them, about the same as the Times and Telegraph who have a 50% tip success rate. In other words, again to quote my Dad, Do as I say, not as I do, at least as far as rich socialists are concerned. ( They don't live in hovels) Working class folk, can and do think for themselves, and voting Labour simply because you're working class is stupid. I expect I'm gonna get shot down by a few on this one, but hey ho, like all good Yorkshire folk, I'll listen to what tha says, then do what I was gonna do anyway. As the poor tend to spend all their wages on vatable goods, the VAT increase has more than offset the increase in the personal allowance. Throw in the increased NI contributions and decreased in in-work benefits, and the poorest are a good deal worse off. The personal allowance increase primarily helps middle income earners near the 40% higher rate threshold, as well as pensioners. This is sensible politics, as they're more likely to swing Tory. In the graph below, it's only the 7th and 8th deciles that are better (this is hardly surprising given the need to cut state spending, with that spending generally more likely to go the poorest.) It's worth noting how hard the richest have been hit in pure tax and spend terms though.  |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Mar 20, 2015 19:26:06 GMT 1
Alex Ferguson was a vocal Labour supporter and openly canvassed for them in elections but it didn't stop 75,000 Man Utd fans turning up at every home game. Whilst this is a good debate I can't seriously think Hoyle & Booth's political leanings will do much to dampen our support.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2015 19:28:33 GMT 1
Think the whole 'working class' badge that labour supporters like to tag themselves with is so out-dated now. Its from a time long gone IMO. For me its just inverted snobbery. Labour rely on it for a lot of votes so play on it as much as they can.
Working class, middle class, upper class? Not for me there isn't anymore.
These days it seems more like-
underclass -( people who don't want to work)
Working class- (people who do want to work)
Upper class- ( people who don't need to work)
The first group has grown massively and did very well indeed under new labour.
the second group is practically everyone. Theres rich and theres poor but they all work, or want to work. The idea youre only a 'worker' if you're on a shop floor or operating some machinery is nonsense IMO. The richest people i know tend to work the longest hours.
The third group is so small its barely significant.
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Post by andyeastleake on Mar 20, 2015 19:46:36 GMT 1
They need to even it up now. Jarvis and Cibbo with George Galloway and Chris Powell talking up the Respect Party. Would love to see the reactions on here to that! The most surprising piece of "news" I've ever heard in my life was when I heard John Major had had a long affair with Edwina Currie. That would seem like "Tomorrow is Thursday" on a Wednesday if I found out Clibbens was anything else but a Tory. |
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Post by In sooth- - on Mar 20, 2015 19:53:56 GMT 1
There is strong rumour that Ed Miliband will infiltrate onto the Kilner Bank wearing a Town  and flag. |
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Post by netterriers4 on Mar 20, 2015 21:07:01 GMT 1
The thing I like most about LabCon politics is when the millionaire sneers at other millionaires for being privately educated millionaires. None of them have ever had a real job, none have ever had to choose between eating or heating and never will. Most MPs role off to non exec directorships - including 99% of the Labour blokes. I want the country to promote hard work. I want the country to let people keep more of their hard earned income. I want the country to help those who are genuinely in need on the condition they do all they can to help themselves. I want a health and welfare system that recognises contribution or not. I want a country that has a parliament that represents the views of its people in a way first past the post can't ever. And one other thing that REALLY gets my goat is when the press and the left call a benefit reduction a tax. It's not. Heating or eating my arse (excuse the double entendre) A lot of these people on the breadline sit griping about it, drinking and smoking away their life while sat watching sky tv on their 50 inch plasmas. I saw a guy on tv going to the foodbank smoking with his super dry t shirt on. Get yourself to Primark , give up the tabs and maybe you could afford a good meal you tosser. That's why I said welfare help should be given on the proviso those that get it help themselves and that a nod for it must be that you have contributed. The reference you pick out was meant to show how out of touch of reality most MPs are - I was talking about pensioners, not the increasing number of people who choose being unemployed as a life choice!! |
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Post by netterriers4 on Mar 20, 2015 21:19:43 GMT 1
When Labour were last in power, the personal tax free allowance was around, 6.5k. Now it's 10.6k, but of course you have to work to gain from that. So I do vote Tory, because apart from that they are, as many have said all the bloody same. It's nothing whatever to do with being posh, snobby or whatever. My Dad still living in Hudds at Waterloo, was a Bus Driver and voted Tory. Not because he was a right wing racist or whatever, just couldn't stand giving the money he earned in Taxes to folk who simply didn't deserve it. Politics of envy, as he always used to say, wanting to share all our money out so nicely, except of course they don't. Of course once upon a time, there was a decent chance of working your way to the top 10% earners, now there's no chance for just about anybody. Still Dean managed it. As a side note, whilst retired, I've done the papers for the local shop for over 6 years now. That is "paperboy" and I pay tax on it. NEVER in that time, in over £200 every year in Christmas tips has one penny come from the posh socialists who read The Guardian. I deliver 4 of them, about the same as the Times and Telegraph who have a 50% tip success rate. In other words, again to quote my Dad, Do as I say, not as I do, at least as far as rich socialists are concerned. ( They don't live in hovels) Working class folk, can and do think for themselves, and voting Labour simply because you're working class is stupid. I expect I'm gonna get shot down by a few on this one, but hey ho, like all good Yorkshire folk, I'll listen to what tha says, then do what I was gonna do anyway. As the poor tend to spend all their wages on vatable goods, the VAT increase has more than offset the increase in the personal allowance. Throw in the increased NI contributions and decreased in in-work benefits, and the poorest are a good deal worse off. The personal allowance increase primarily helps middle income earners near the 40% higher rate threshold, as well as pensioners. This is sensible politics, as they're more likely to swing Tory. In the graph below, it's only the 7th and 8th deciles that are better (this is hardly surprising given the need to cut state spending, with that spending generally more likely to go the poorest.) It's worth noting how hard the richest have been hit in pure tax and spend terms though. Because of course middle earners buy less vatable products? Based on what do you claim that? And it wasn't the Tories who got rid of the 10p threshold, or dipped into pensions. And thanks for acknowledging people on or near 40% tax are middle earners. Labour would have you believe anyone who earns in the top 15% of income is automatically a millionaire who loves in Kensington! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 21:42:07 GMT 1
I don't care what their political persuasion is, I support Town for the football not the politics. What Dean/Boothy do in this regards is their decision, it's what's called a democracy scarfWhat's working class anyway? - I reckon that around 50% of Town fans probably vote Tory, so why all the fuss? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 21:54:14 GMT 1
As the poor tend to spend all their wages on vatable goods, the VAT increase has more than offset the increase in the personal allowance. Throw in the increased NI contributions and decreased in in-work benefits, and the poorest are a good deal worse off. The personal allowance increase primarily helps middle income earners near the 40% higher rate threshold, as well as pensioners. This is sensible politics, as they're more likely to swing Tory. In the graph below, it's only the 7th and 8th deciles that are better (this is hardly surprising given the need to cut state spending, with that spending generally more likely to go the poorest.) It's worth noting how hard the richest have been hit in pure tax and spend terms though. Because of course middle earners buy less vatable products? Based on what do you claim that? And it wasn't the Tories who got rid of the 10p threshold, or dipped into pensions. And thanks for acknowledging people on or near 40% tax are middle earners. Labour would have you believe anyone who earns in the top 15% of income is automatically a millionaire who loves in Kensington! A smaller proportion of their income goes on rated products because they have money left over after essentials (to save or invest or whatever.) It's a regressive tax in that sense. Just got to the pub so can't get the data right now. There's not a great deal of wiggle room in the public finances really. I think that explains the rather dry and managerial campaign. Labour have suggested a couple of tax increases but seem to have promised the money half a dozen times. Really there's no honesty from any of the parties at the minute because they won't even sketch out their fiscal plans. |
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Post by jimmythebulldog on Mar 20, 2015 23:40:27 GMT 1
Anyone who votes based on historical reasons and their 'class' over the matters of the day, the best man for the job locally and who the PM will end up being is a plank.
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Mar 20, 2015 23:54:42 GMT 1
Don't forget.
Labour need voters who rely on the State.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 0:11:16 GMT 1
Anyone who votes based on historical reasons and their 'class' over the matters of the day, the best man for the job locally and who the PM will end up being is a plank. Thing is Jimmy, I get the impression on this thread that a few people think that mainly applies to people in the 'working class Labour heartlands' who are 'lesser educated' and follow blindly like sheep. However isn't it also the case that many Conservatives will vote based on their family history and how they've been taught to vote through generations? The generally held view (in my experience) that the bulk of electorate ignorance (to policies) exists in the so called lower classes is not really a true reflection of things... The reality is however, that we've had generations of 2 main parties who in broad terms haven't really changed their ideals greatly. Therefore it is difficult for people who support their respective parties ideals to change, because if you were to hop from side to side it says more about you as a person and taking a short termist and arguably selfish view, i.e. when it gets painful because you realise you've voted for the wrong bunch you can't wait to reverse that at the earliest opportunity. Until the economy stabilises (to a degree where mere mortals can start to understand the numbers) and that would then allow them also understand how well that Govt is doing for their longer term future, we could be in a marginal state for a while... |
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Post by Big Ern on Mar 21, 2015 0:23:44 GMT 1
If the conservatives have their way there will be 1 ambulance serving the whole of Huddersfield with a few plasters and some wet wipes whilst one fire engine carrying 2 women and a watering can attack a 4 story mill fire in Bradford.
They want to decimate public services because they are so out of touch with reality that they don't realise the impact it has on the working class. Somebody mentioned before how they don't understand how you can be brought up supporting a single party, well how many MP's are self made millionaires and weren't just born into it?
If you have never worked an honest day or been brought up fighting for every penny then you won't know how it feels. The conservatives certainly seem that way to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 0:43:07 GMT 1
Bollocks
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Post by sabailand on Mar 21, 2015 0:46:20 GMT 1
Like him or not Nigel farage is the only politician who people actually take notice of when he speaks.I hope UKIP do well,they speak the truth and thats what the mainstream are frightened of,the truth confuses them.Instead of addressing UKIP`s arguments the mainstream end up resorting to insults and name calling cos they know for a fact they will never ever win a debate on what people feel strongly about....crime/law and order(a joke),immigration(its not racist to be concerned about the influx of immigrants to a country as small as ours, although labour/cons have jumped on this bandwagon,as if people are going to believe the labour parties pledges on the subject),Europe,(the millions we give to this undemocratic institution is a disgrace).
They might win a few seats but they arnt going to form the next government, but its been a breath of fresh air seeing the rise of UKIP, and the conservatives and labour know they will lose votes to them,potentially losing them the election.We shall see.
Having said all that Ken Livingston once said if voting changed anything it wouldnt be allowed,and whos to say he dosnt have a point.
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Post by Cole on Mar 21, 2015 1:01:01 GMT 1
You know it's serious when you see graphs and charts. Jesus, wasn't expecting this on DATM, in fact anything but this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 1:05:04 GMT 1
Like him or not Nigel farage is the only politician who people actually take notice of when he speaks. I hope UKIP do well,they speak the truth and thats what the mainstream are frightened of,the truth confuses them.Instead of addressing UKIP`s arguments the mainstream end up resorting to insults and name calling cos they know for a fact they will never ever win a debate on what people feel strongly about....crime/law and order(a joke),immigration(its not racist to be concerned about the influx of immigrants to a country as small as ours, although labour/cons have jumped on this bandwagon,as if people are going to believe the labour parties pledges on the subject),Europe,(the millions we give to this undemocratic institution is a disgrace). They might win a few seats but they arnt going to form the next government, but its been a breath of fresh air seeing the rise of UKIP, and the conservatives and labour know they will lose votes to them,potentially losing them the election.We shall see. Having said all that Ken Livingston once said if voting changed anything it wouldnt be allowed,and whos to say he dosnt have a point. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to believe that statement. |
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Post by impact on Mar 21, 2015 2:06:38 GMT 1
Because of course middle earners buy less vatable products? Based on what do you claim that? And it wasn't the Tories who got rid of the 10p threshold, or dipped into pensions. And thanks for acknowledging people on or near 40% tax are middle earners. Labour would have you believe anyone who earns in the top 15% of income is automatically a millionaire who loves in Kensington! A smaller proportion of their income goes on rated products because they have money left over after essentials (to save or invest or whatever.) It's a regressive tax in that sense. Just got to the pub so can't get the data right now. There's not a great deal of wiggle room in the public finances really. I think that explains the rather dry and managerial campaign. Labour have suggested a couple of tax increases but seem to have promised the money half a dozen times. Really there's no honesty from any of the parties at the minute because they won't even sketch out their fiscal plans. I don't quite get the logic here. Surely those with less money spend a greater proportion of their money on essentials like food, a lot of which have no VAT? Would it not be those with more money who spend it on luxuries that have VAT? And I also don't get how those near the 40% tax rate benefit more from the increase in personal allowance. Everyone gets the additional allowance, in fact those earning less money will have a higher proportion of their money becoming tax-free. |
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Post by patfield on Mar 21, 2015 7:30:08 GMT 1
Heating or eating my arse (excuse the double entendre) A lot of these people on the breadline sit griping about it, drinking and smoking away their life while sat watching sky tv on their 50 inch plasmas. I saw a guy on tv going to the foodbank smoking with his super dry t shirt on. Get yourself to Primark , give up the tabs and maybe you could afford a good meal you tosser. That's why I said welfare help should be given on the proviso those that get it help themselves and that a nod for it must be that you have contributed. The reference you pick out was meant to show how out of touch of reality most MPs are - I was talking about pensioners, not the increasing number of people who choose being unemployed as a life choice!! Whilst I agree with you to a certain point, the latest stats show that a lot , not all, of pensioners are now better off than ever. It has even been suggested that the economic recovery has been slowed through a lot of pensioners still saving their money therefore not spending and helping bring down the deficit. This is not knocking the older end but the vast majority are not as poor as the media make out. |
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Post by patfield on Mar 21, 2015 7:32:38 GMT 1
If the conservatives have their way there will be 1 ambulance serving the whole of Huddersfield with a few plasters and some wet wipes whilst one fire engine carrying 2 women and a watering can attack a 4 story mill fire in Bradford. They want to decimate public services because they are so out of touch with reality that they don't realise the impact it has on the working class. Somebody mentioned before how they don't understand how you can be brought up supporting a single party, well how many MP's are self made millionaires and weren't just born into it? If you have never worked an honest day or been brought up fighting for every penny then you won't know how it feels. The conservatives certainly seem that way to me. What a lot of nonsense |
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Post by patfield on Mar 21, 2015 7:35:01 GMT 1
I don't vote. It only encourages them Well you cant complain about anything then if you dont use your vote. |
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Post by patfield on Mar 21, 2015 7:38:51 GMT 1
I wouldn't bother voting if there was a polling station in my back garden. To a man (or woman) they're all a bunch of liars and cheats who can never answer a straight question and rarely carry out what they say they're going to do. See above |
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Post by patfield on Mar 21, 2015 7:42:24 GMT 1
Would anyone on here really trust Balls & Miliband with the economy, particularly after the last Labour Government totally wrecked it? As for Miliband, he's only a puppet of the Unite Union led by red Len McCluskey, who is really a die hard Communist, just like Miliband's father was. What we really need is another strong Conservative government in power led by someone similar to Maggie Thatcher, who would stand no nonsense from the EU led by Merkell and her limp French side kick. As for Maggie, she's probably one of the best leaders we've had since Churchill and who can blame her for confronting Scargill, when it was costing us twice as much to produce coal in this country compared to the price we could import for?. So although I'll be voting Tory, I must admit that there's very little to choose between any of the contenders, but it's just that I'd far more prefer Osbourne to look after the economy than that waffling testicle called Balls, who given the chance would no doubt balls it up again. This. |
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Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by iangreaves on Mar 21, 2015 8:34:32 GMT 1
When Labour were last in power, the personal tax free allowance was around, 6.5k. Now it's 10.6k, but of course you have to work to gain from that. So I do vote Tory, because apart from that they are, as many have said all the bloody same. It's nothing whatever to do with being posh, snobby or whatever. My Dad still living in Hudds at Waterloo, was a Bus Driver and voted Tory. Not because he was a right wing racist or whatever, just couldn't stand giving the money he earned in Taxes to folk who simply didn't deserve it. Politics of envy, as he always used to say, wanting to share all our money out so nicely, except of course they don't. Of course once upon a time, there was a decent chance of working your way to the top 10% earners, now there's no chance for just about anybody. Still Dean managed it. As a side note, whilst retired, I've done the papers for the local shop for over 6 years now. That is "paperboy" and I pay tax on it. NEVER in that time, in over £200 every year in Christmas tips has one penny come from the posh socialists who read The Guardian. I deliver 4 of them, about the same as the Times and Telegraph who have a 50% tip success rate. In other words, again to quote my Dad, Do as I say, not as I do, at least as far as rich socialists are concerned. ( They don't live in hovels) Working class folk, can and do think for themselves, and voting Labour simply because you're working class is stupid. I expect I'm gonna get shot down by a few on this one, but hey ho, like all good Yorkshire folk, I'll listen to what tha says, then do what I was gonna do anyway. As the poor tend to spend all their wages on vatable goods, the VAT increase has more than offset the increase in the personal allowance. Throw in the increased NI contributions and decreased in in-work benefits, and the poorest are a good deal worse off. The personal allowance increase primarily helps middle income earners near the 40% higher rate threshold, as well as pensioners. This is sensible politics, as they're more likely to swing Tory. In the graph below, it's only the 7th and 8th deciles that are better (this is hardly surprising given the need to cut state spending, with that spending generally more likely to go the poorest.) It's worth noting how hard the richest have been hit in pure tax and spend terms though. I would have thought the poor would spend most of their brass on essentials like food, which is not subject to VAT. Personally, I would cut VAT to zero on some other things - like energy - and increase it on non-essentials, but the European Union won't let us. So at the end of the day it doesn't really matter who we vote for at Westminster, we are being run from Brussels - or Berlin. |
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Post by detox on Mar 21, 2015 8:55:30 GMT 1
Would anyone on here really trust Balls & Miliband with the economy, particularly after the last Labour Government totally wrecked it? As for Miliband, he's only a puppet of the Unite Union led by red Len McCluskey, who is really a die hard Communist, just like Miliband's father was. What we really need is another strong Conservative government in power led by someone similar to Maggie Thatcher, who would stand no nonsense from the EU led by Merkell and her limp French side kick. As for Maggie, she's probably one of the best leaders we've had since Churchill and who can blame her for confronting Scargill, when it was costing us twice as much to produce coal in this country compared to the price we could import for?. So although I'll be voting Tory, I must admit that there's very little to choose between any of the contenders, but it's just that I'd far more prefer Osbourne to look after the economy than that waffling testicle called Balls, who given the chance would no doubt balls it up again. This. It's worrying how much of the Tory bullshit has stuck to some people,even now. Of course the Tories love to spin this story..how Labour trashed the economy in the Uk...and France,Germany, Greece, Iceland, USA, Portugal,Spain...Italy...all coincidentally 'trashed 'at the same time..wow! The UK Govt must have a massive influence on the worlds economies..! Stuns me that anyone still believes this. Let's just think about what happened for a moment... unregulated banks and finance services...(Maggie)...theft, crooked libor deals, rash investments over exposing the banks...massive bonuses earned...Leeman Brothers,RBS....? Don't tell me that was down to the Labour Govt, who just happened to me holding the parcel when the music stopped. In the inquests after the banks crash all was revealed about the dodgy deals, the crooked transactions going on...Iceland jailed their bankers ! No, this is unbridled Capitalism..it's what it does...feeds the greedy..without any limits, or morals ...Cameron lauded the financial services as the main contributor to the UK's economy(remember that ?) .. Labour had to either let the banks crash (in which case investors would lose their money) or bail them out. It cost billions to prop them up ..but it worked, and now the Tories are selling off our ownership and trying to claim credit for it..eh ? After 2008 Alistair Darling set in place a recovery program ...vased on investment and growing our way out of the financial crisis..and if you look at the statistics you will see that plan was working, the economy was growing and recovery was under way...then the Tories came in...used it as an excuse to cut the state (as they always do)and punched out the rhetoric of "labour trashed the economy and we're fixing it"... they destroyed the recovery Darling has secured and gave us 5 years of austerity...and if they win in May, another 5 years of austerity, cuts in services...sell offs to private investors...Remember they sold the profit making Royal mail..at a massive discount..to 'selected investors who would hold the stock long term', they said..ha ha..that would be Osborne's best man that made an absolute mint out of buying cheap and selling within a month at a vast profit then ? Labour have allowed themselves to be tarred as the cause of the world crash by being weak and inarticulate...but the better informed know the reality, because we research the stats and find out the truth,rather than just beleiving every stupid Tory slogan repeated by the BBC and the Tory media. I guess what they say about the victors get to write the history is true, because Cameron has certainly done that. |
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Post by morrisraspass on Mar 21, 2015 9:04:20 GMT 1
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Post by bro600 on Mar 21, 2015 9:23:53 GMT 1
I don't vote. It only encourages them Well you cant complain about anything then if you dont use your vote. Why? What if you've come to the conclusion that they're all not worth voting for and lying bastards? |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 21, 2015 9:27:49 GMT 1
When Labour were last in power, the personal tax free allowance was around, 6.5k. Now it's 10.6k, but of course you have to work to gain from that. So I do vote Tory, because apart from that they are, as many have said all the bloody same. It's nothing whatever to do with being posh, snobby or whatever. My Dad still living in Hudds at Waterloo, was a Bus Driver and voted Tory. Not because he was a right wing racist or whatever, just couldn't stand giving the money he earned in Taxes to folk who simply didn't deserve it. Politics of envy, as he always used to say, wanting to share all our money out so nicely, except of course they don't. Of course once upon a time, there was a decent chance of working your way to the top 10% earners, now there's no chance for just about anybody. Still Dean managed it. As a side note, whilst retired, I've done the papers for the local shop for over 6 years now. That is "paperboy" and I pay tax on it. NEVER in that time, in over £200 every year in Christmas tips has one penny come from the posh socialists who read The Guardian. I deliver 4 of them, about the same as the Times and Telegraph who have a 50% tip success rate. In other words, again to quote my Dad, Do as I say, not as I do, at least as far as rich socialists are concerned. ( They don't live in hovels) Working class folk, can and do think for themselves, and voting Labour simply because you're working class is stupid. I expect I'm gonna get shot down by a few on this one, but hey ho, like all good Yorkshire folk, I'll listen to what tha says, then do what I was gonna do anyway. As the poor tend to spend all their wages on vatable goods, the VAT increase has more than offset the increase in the personal allowance. Throw in the increased NI contributions and decreased in in-work benefits, and the poorest are a good deal worse off. The personal allowance increase primarily helps middle income earners near the 40% higher rate threshold, as well as pensioners. This is sensible politics, as they're more likely to swing Tory. In the graph below, it's only the 7th and 8th deciles that are better (this is hardly surprising given the need to cut state spending, with that spending generally more likely to go the poorest.) It's worth noting how hard the richest have been hit in pure tax and spend terms though. A miss in these stats is the fact that anyone earning over £50k with kids are losing out due to having to repay some or all of their child benefits If you're on £60k you are £1k worse off under this government - a figure paid after tax (over a quarter of which is taxed at 40%) I think most earners in that band understand the need for austerity so take it on the chin but still seems a bit of an oversight when saying the middle class haven't been affected |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 21, 2015 9:37:07 GMT 1
If your earning that kind of money, I think its pretty safe to safe you won't notice its gone in real terms.
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and flag.
