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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 16, 2016 20:16:51 GMT 1
Yes the clues are all there. Who runs the play off games? The Football LEAGUEWhats are they called? The LEAGUE 1 play offs What is the game part of? The LEAGUE 1 season What is their purpose- to decide who moves up a division in the LEAGUE The play offs are not REGULAR SEASON League games. I do get that you know. We have the record for consecutive REGULAR season league games. They are however League games as they are organised by the league, as part of the league season and effect your league status. To not think they are league games is therefore utterly absurd. The FL organise the League Cup currently called the Carling Cup after the sponsors and also the Johnstone's Paint Trophy ....... are these league games too  If they are part of the league season and effect your league standing, then yes...yes they are.  Do they do that? |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Feb 16, 2016 20:20:58 GMT 1
Some excellent views on Clark in this thread. You made one just for him Teddy, probs justified instead of the ex player Fred mate as its a big story. Yeah well I know not everyone posts in the ex player thread pal, so gives people a chance to comment on LC in this thread, which it deserves imo, good manager for town was Lee. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 16, 2016 20:22:43 GMT 1
Say what you want about Lee Clark but he lifted the profile of our club that's for suraaaa Did he? I think it was more Dean Hoyle and his money that did that. Lee Clark wasn't a big enough name to lift the profile of club Towns size just by his presence. I don't see him as a bigger name in the game than Ternent or Grayson and less so than Robins or Powell. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 16, 2016 20:36:43 GMT 1
Completely ignoring the fact that the one up front formation had been far more successful for us winning the last six consecutive away games with that formation, while the front 2 formation had garnered 3 wins and 5 draws when used at home. Jordan Rhodes at the end of that season was a pale shadow of the Jordan Rhodes that turned up fitter, stronger and hungrier the next season, he missed a couple of dobbers in the home Bournemouth semi, while looking unfit and knackered after 30 mins. But don't let those facts get in the way of your narrative Rhodes was every bit as lethal that season as any other, but don't let those facts get in the way of your narrative. The decision not to play him in a cup final was simply criminal. That is nonsense. He was terrible that season, so bad people were questioning if he had some sort of illnesses. Don't you let what happened in subsequent seasons get in the way of what happened that one. I don't want to get in a general LC debate, I think Brum is a big stick to hit him with, but there's some right rubbish spoken about that Play-Off Final. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 20:41:02 GMT 1
Rhodes was every bit as lethal that season as any other, but don't let those facts get in the way of your narrative. The decision not to play him in a cup final was simply criminal. That is nonsense. He was terrible that season, so bad people were questioning if he had some sort of illnesses. Don't you let what happened in subsequent seasons get in the way of what happened that one. I don't want to get in a general LC debate, I think Brum is a big stick to hit him with, but there's some right rubbish spoken about that Play-Off Final. Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. |
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 20:45:08 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by space hardware on Feb 16, 2016 20:45:08 GMT 1
That is nonsense. He was terrible that season, so bad people were questioning if he had some sort of illnesses. Don't you let what happened in subsequent seasons get in the way of what happened that one. I don't want to get in a general LC debate, I think Brum is a big stick to hit him with, but there's some right rubbish spoken about that Play-Off Final. Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. 16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 20:50:56 GMT 1
Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. 16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. Sure, he was still a good player, but it wasn't madness to leave him out of the starting line up, as it would have been the following season, when he was a different beast entirely. Also worth remembering how well Afobe was doing in the lone front man role, even if he wasn't the most prolific. |
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Post by hasta el pueblo on Feb 16, 2016 20:53:06 GMT 1
Bad start for LC Kilmarnock 1-0 down to Rangers in Scotish cup, although he is only watching from the stands tonight.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Feb 16, 2016 20:55:12 GMT 1
Strange to say most people on here thought Afobe wouldn't make it and Jordan Rhodes was going to be a star, remind me how many Premier League Goals has Jordan Rhodes scored?
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Post by space hardware on Feb 16, 2016 20:58:13 GMT 1
16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. Sure, he was still a good player, but it wasn't madness to leave him out of the starting line up, as it would have been the following season, when he was a different beast entirely. Also worth remembering how well Afobe was doing in the lone front man role, even if he wasn't the most prolific. Yeah, I get that. I still don't know why Clark opted for the "away" formation for that game though, given that we weren't away. Peterborough cut through our midfield at will in the first half and they could have been at least three up at the break and he waited until the game was lost to change it. Those are the sticks I would beat him with. I just wish certain posters would leave him in the past. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 16, 2016 20:59:14 GMT 1
Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. 16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. He was certainly nothing even resembling 'terrible'. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Feb 16, 2016 21:01:36 GMT 1
Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. 16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. From Jan 16th onwards Jordan only scored in 4 of the 15 games (12 starts and 3 as a sub) he appeared in before the Old Trafford final He was IMO bang out of form and unfit at that time. Of the 12 starts, he was subbed 11 times and 8 of those before an hour had been played. He missed a month after being injured on Jan 22nd, maybe we rushed him back but he wasn't the same player when he returned that season. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 16, 2016 21:06:13 GMT 1
16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. From Jan 16th onwards Jordan only scored in 4 of the 15 games (12 starts and 3 as a sub) he appeared in before the Old Trafford final He was IMO bang out of form and unfit at that time. Of the 12 starts, he was subbed 11 times and 8 of those before an hour had been played. He missed a month after being injured on Jan 22nd, maybe we rushed him back but he wasn't the same player when he returned that season. Do you mean a bit like james vaughan when he reappeared in jan 2015 ? ( although unfortunately he ain't ever gonna be good again ) |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Feb 16, 2016 21:14:44 GMT 1
From Jan 16th onwards Jordan only scored in 4 of the 15 games (12 starts and 3 as a sub) he appeared in before the Old Trafford final He was IMO bang out of form and unfit at that time. Of the 12 starts, he was subbed 11 times and 8 of those before an hour had been played. He missed a month after being injured on Jan 22nd, maybe we rushed him back but he wasn't the same player when he returned that season. Do you mean a bit like james vaughan when he reappeared in jan 2015 ? ( although unfortunately he ain't ever gonna be good again ) He looked alright to me in the wins over promoted Watford and playoff bound Ipswich if allowed an opinion of course. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Feb 16, 2016 21:21:27 GMT 1
Sure, he was still a good player, but it wasn't madness to leave him out of the starting line up, as it would have been the following season, when he was a different beast entirely. Also worth remembering how well Afobe was doing in the lone front man role, even if he wasn't the most prolific. Yeah, I get that. I still don't know why Clark opted for the "away" formation for that game though, given that we weren't away. Peterborough cut through our midfield at will in the first half and they could have been at least three up at the break and he waited until the game was lost to change it. Those are the sticks I would beat him with. I just wish certain posters would leave him in the past. Maybe it was a good idea to use the away formation with the extra midfielder then can you imagine how the midfield would have coped without him. You could use the same argument for not using the home formation as we weren't at home either I guess Clark chose the formation that garnered the better results to end the season. a) A formation that had garnered 6 successive wins in its last 6 games or b) A formation that had garnered 3 wins and 5 draws from its last 8 games (including a rather fortunate draw against the upcoming foes in which they dominated the majority of the game) You tell me which you'd pick? |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 16, 2016 21:23:09 GMT 1
Do you mean a bit like james vaughan when he reappeared in jan 2015 ? ( although unfortunately he ain't ever gonna be good again ) He looked alright to me in the wins over promoted Watford and playoff bound Ipswich if allowed an opinion of course. Well I know you're a stats man ...check out his goal record this season He's gone at the game Doc.. It gives me no pleasure to tell you that again ( apart from in a " I knew what my eyes were telling me last January last year and the old peepers were right " kinda way ) |
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 21:32:51 GMT 1
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Post by space hardware on Feb 16, 2016 21:32:51 GMT 1
Yeah, I get that. I still don't know why Clark opted for the "away" formation for that game though, given that we weren't away. Peterborough cut through our midfield at will in the first half and they could have been at least three up at the break and he waited until the game was lost to change it. Those are the sticks I would beat him with. I just wish certain posters would leave him in the past. Maybe it was a good idea to use the away formation with the extra midfielder then can you imagine how the midfield would have coped without him. You could use the same argument for not using the home formation as we weren't at home either I guess Clark chose the formation that garnered the better results to end the season. a) A formation that had garnered 6 successive wins in its last 6 games or b) A formation that had garnered 3 wins and 5 draws from its last 8 games (including a rather fortunate draw against the upcoming foes in which they dominated the majority of the game) You tell me which you'd pick? I'd have assessed the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, the form of our players at the time, the temperament of the players, how they might cope with a big occasion. That kind of thing. I certainly wouldn't have simply gone with a statistical approach like you seem to boil everything down to. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Feb 16, 2016 21:36:12 GMT 1
He looked alright to me in the wins over promoted Watford and playoff bound Ipswich if allowed an opinion of course. Well I know you're a stats man ...check out his goal record this season He's gone at the game Doc.. It gives me no pleasure to tell you that again ( apart from in a " I knew what my eyes were telling me last January last year and the old peepers were right " kinda way ) So this is why you brought Vaughan into the debate, to bring out the fabled 'I told you so!' And Nick gets plummelled for some of his tangents! Personally, I liked Vaughan and his wholehearted approach which is why I will always pull for him to be successful as long as its not at Town's expense. |
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 21:40:17 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 16, 2016 21:40:17 GMT 1
That is nonsense. He was terrible that season, so bad people were questioning if he had some sort of illnesses. Don't you let what happened in subsequent seasons get in the way of what happened that one. I don't want to get in a general LC debate, I think Brum is a big stick to hit him with, but there's some right rubbish spoken about that Play-Off Final. Yep, he got 16 goals in 37 games that season; nothing special. Talking of sticks to hit people with, a mate was banging on about selling him at the end of that season. Needless to say, he's never been allowed to forget it. To be honest- it's still better than I thought  |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 16, 2016 21:40:23 GMT 1
Well I know you're a stats man ...check out his goal record this season He's gone at the game Doc.. It gives me no pleasure to tell you that again ( apart from in a " I knew what my eyes were telling me last January last year and the old peepers were right " kinda way ) So this is why you brought Vaughan into the debate, to bring out the fabled 'I told you so!' And Nick gets plummelled for some of his tangents! Personally, I liked Vaughan and his wholehearted approach which is why I will always pull for him to be successful as long as its not at Town's expense. Sorry doc I was being a bit flippant... But to be honest I wheeled it out because you were talking about rhodes losing form etc... Yet I've been telling you for over a year about vaughan ... So I was being a bit of a twat to be honest .. Apologies |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Feb 16, 2016 21:48:07 GMT 1
Maybe it was a good idea to use the away formation with the extra midfielder then can you imagine how the midfield would have coped without him. You could use the same argument for not using the home formation as we weren't at home either I guess Clark chose the formation that garnered the better results to end the season. a) A formation that had garnered 6 successive wins in its last 6 games or b) A formation that had garnered 3 wins and 5 draws from its last 8 games (including a rather fortunate draw against the upcoming foes in which they dominated the majority of the game) You tell me which you'd pick? I'd have assessed the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, the form of our players at the time, the temperament of the players, how they might cope with a big occasion. That kind of thing. I certainly wouldn't have simply gone with a statistical approach like you seem to boil everything down to. Have a pop at the Maths geek who quotes stats time is it! I love football and have watched it long enough to form opinions by viewing the action alone but 'like' to use stats as evidence to back up my opinion. No amount of stats could override how out of form and unfit Rhodes LOOKED TO THE EYE at the time, the stats I have provided merely backup this claim. How exactly do you assess form, strengths and weaknesses. In most cases analysis of statistics would be used for this assessment. We lost at Old Trafford because I feel the Posh players rose to the occasion and we didn't, it may go against the narrative on here but I believe we would have lost if the players would have performed in a similar way, had the 'home' formation been selected instead. |
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Post by space hardware on Feb 16, 2016 21:59:12 GMT 1
I'd have assessed the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition, the form of our players at the time, the temperament of the players, how they might cope with a big occasion. That kind of thing. I certainly wouldn't have simply gone with a statistical approach like you seem to boil everything down to. Have a pop at the Maths geek who quotes stats time is it! I love football and have watched it long enough to form opinions by viewing the action alone but 'like' to use stats as evidence to back up my opinion. No amount of stats could override how out of form and unfit Rhodes LOOKED TO THE EYE at the time, the stats I have provided merely backup this claim. How exactly do you assess form, strengths and weaknesses. In most cases analysis of statistics would be used for this assessment. We lost at Old Trafford because I feel the Posh players rose to the occasion and we didn't, it may go against the narrative on here but I believe we would have lost if the players would have performed in a similar way, had the 'home' formation been selected instead. I think too much emphasis is placed on stats in football these days. The bullshit assists, pass completion, possession etc, much of it quoted without real context. But that's a whole different debate. My issue with Clark is that he got the tactics wrong that day IMO and then compounded the error by waiting until the game was gone before he changed it. |
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 22:00:28 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 16, 2016 22:00:28 GMT 1
16 in 37 is still 1 in 2, give or take. Not great compared to the season after but still very good. Sure, he was still a good player, but it wasn't madness to leave him out of the starting line up, as it would have been the following season, when he was a different beast entirely. Also worth remembering how well Afobe was doing in the lone front man role, even if he wasn't the most prolific. 16 in 37 doesn't justify a player that may as well have been sat on a chair for the rest of the game that season. The following season he justified it and more. A remarkable season, one that will go down in Town folklore. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 22:08:13 GMT 1
Sure, he was still a good player, but it wasn't madness to leave him out of the starting line up, as it would have been the following season, when he was a different beast entirely. Also worth remembering how well Afobe was doing in the lone front man role, even if he wasn't the most prolific. 16 in 37 doesn't justify a player that may as well have been sat on a chair for the rest of the game that season. The following season he justified it and more. A remarkable season, one that will go down in Town folklore. I'd be amazed if we ever see a player have a season close to that for us, in goal scoring terms. I had a look at it when I was checking how many he got the previous season, some of the figures were phenomenal - 40 goals in 46 games, a run of 9 in 4, another of 12 in 5, five hat tricks in a season, four goals in a game, five goals in a game. It's the sort of records Ronaldo or Messi have, albeit at a much lower level. www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=46684&season_id=141 |
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 22:13:09 GMT 1
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Post by Automatic(EPBS) on Feb 16, 2016 22:13:09 GMT 1
Have a pop at the Maths geek who quotes stats time is it! I love football and have watched it long enough to form opinions by viewing the action alone but 'like' to use stats as evidence to back up my opinion. No amount of stats could override how out of form and unfit Rhodes LOOKED TO THE EYE at the time, the stats I have provided merely backup this claim. How exactly do you assess form, strengths and weaknesses. In most cases analysis of statistics would be used for this assessment. We lost at Old Trafford because I feel the Posh players rose to the occasion and we didn't, it may go against the narrative on here but I believe we would have lost if the players would have performed in a similar way, had the 'home' formation been selected instead. I think too much emphasis is placed on stats in football these days. The bullshit assists, pass completion, possession etc, much of it quoted without real context. But that's a whole different debate. My issue with Clark is that he got the tactics wrong that day IMO and then compounded the error by waiting until the game was gone before he changed it. I know we finished 8 points ahead of posh that season but I thought their team was far better than ours. When we drew at home with them in April It was a lucky point for us. My next door neighbor still quotes my words to him when I got back from that game. "If we get them in the playoffs we'll lose" |
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Post by thrice on Feb 16, 2016 22:46:44 GMT 1
I don't recall anybody ever making an argument that Rhodes should not play because he was unfit or off form.
It was always simply home formation or away formation.
Having only played every other game Rhodes will have been as fresh as a daisy for the final.
We just made a tragic call.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Feb 16, 2016 22:57:20 GMT 1
It doesn't count tonight he was just watching. For shhhuuuuuaaaaa
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 16, 2016 23:07:05 GMT 1
Lee Clark managing a team in blue and white that leak late goals .. where's the Deja Vu thread ?
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Lee Clark
Feb 16, 2016 23:28:40 GMT 1
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 16, 2016 23:28:40 GMT 1
I don't recall anybody ever making an argument that Rhodes should not play because he was unfit or off form. It was always simply home formation or away formation. Having only played every other game Rhodes will have been as fresh as a daisy for the final. We just made a tragic call. Well if you don't recall it must haven't happened Then again it absolutely did, although his actual scoring record wasn't quite as bad as I thought. |
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Spunker
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Spunker Terrier
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Post by Spunker on Feb 17, 2016 9:11:25 GMT 1
He might do alright up there if he can get the organised. He's not afraid of a challenge! And won't get much to spend. Having Jiggy Mac with him will be a big boost.
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