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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 22:19:48 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 22:33:31 GMT 1
Cough, cough... No myths? I know, I know. You win 1 nil. Good job you didn't have a bet with him. He's very honourable about paying gambling debts....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 22:52:44 GMT 1
Cough, cough... No myths? The depths to which you are prepared to stoop Clapper have hit an all time low now. After all the innacurate bile you have spouted on this topic you have the ordasity to post bragging evidence after an admission of error from an advisory! When will you be seen to man-up with such dignity?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 28, 2016 7:39:31 GMT 1
barbie,, the police can close ranks as quick and as firmly as they like.. people above them with much more power and influence took this over early on and the cover up began. you can always say that police officers should have spoken out etc, job, livelihood and family on the line? thats a different question.. The politicians today on all sides will be major players in cover ups and will be complicit in many falsehoods to preserve or enhance their careers but the awful truth is that many of them know where the cover up went up to and who was involved but now know that it will be almost impossible to get to them. Their speeches today were another slap in the face of justice. The police who will have been under pressure for 27 years to continue the cover up will be hung out to dry and those above them who ordered the cover up and facilitated its length and breadth will never be named.. A few police officers from back then and one now will be the only fall out. We all knew years ago about the cover up and the lies and inconsistencies, the verdict would have been the same then as now. It smells badly of the time is right to go ahead, all our skeletons in the cupboard are covered... I may come across as a conspiracy theorist but I personally believe all the people who spoke in parliament today would conspire at the drop of a hat if it meant stopping them getting in the shit or forwarding their careers. Remember how long and hard they fought and hid an 'expenses claims' investigation..?? Galph You've hinted several times to a cover up that, went much higher than the police service. Indeed the way I read your numerous posts you would seem to see the Police Officers who appear to have been all too ready to participate in the cover up, as scapegoats. Are you in possession of facts that support the existence of a cover up orchestrated at a level higher than the police authority, or is this just speculation? They were all Freemasons Arty. I might be wrong but wasn't Duckenfield high up in the masons ? It's all stunk to high heavens for years .. our society is corrupt from top to bottom .. the hillsborough families should all be given knighthoods for not giving up on this one.Although giving them such an accolade would drag them into the murky world of another of the shady disgraceful practices of this country,the honours system.
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Post by workshyfop on Apr 28, 2016 7:57:26 GMT 1
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Post by dalton knee-jerk on Apr 28, 2016 8:01:56 GMT 1
Sounds about right. Most despicable, self-important, lying c*** there is. And don't set me off on his Mrs because she's even worse
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Post by artysid on Apr 28, 2016 8:05:42 GMT 1
A statement that appeared on a website saying South Yorkshire Police should be proud was apparently not meant for public consumption. Does this mean they are ashamed to be proud???
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realmadkid
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Post by realmadkid on Apr 28, 2016 8:18:07 GMT 1
"They were all Freemasons Arty. I might be wrong but wasn't Duckenfield high up in the masons ? It's all stunk to high heavens for years .. our society is corrupt from top to bottom .. the Hillsborough families should all be given knighthoods for not giving up on this one. Although giving them such an accolade would drag them into the murky world of another of the shady disgraceful practices of this country, the honours system."
Absolutely Ted. Nail squarely on head there. I am also partly with Galph2400 on this too regarding coverups at much higher levels than the mere heads of police forces. Not that I think that they and their subordinates are anything but guilty as charged too.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 28, 2016 8:19:41 GMT 1
Sounds about right. Most despicable, self-important, lying c*** there is. And don't set me off on his Mrs because she's even worse Let's not turn this into a party political matter... Thatcher was a disgrace regarding this matter.... Check out her crony Bernard Ingham's views on the matter... Yesterday's amazing five live documentary ( a must hear) informs us that Jack Straw said there was nothing new when huge evidence of witness statement tampering was presented to him... This was institutional and it went right to the very top
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Post by dalton knee-jerk on Apr 28, 2016 8:50:25 GMT 1
Sounds about right. Most despicable, self-important, lying c*** there is. And don't set me off on his Mrs because she's even worse Let's not turn this into a party political matter... Thatcher was a disgrace regarding this matter.... Check out her crony Bernard Ingham's views on the matter... Yesterday's amazing five live documentary ( a must hear) informs us that Jack Straw said there was nothing new when huge evidence of witness statement tampering was presented to him... This was institutional and it went right to the very top Fair point, I have an adverse reaction whenever I see his name. Added to the instant Tourette's whenever I see his face. I apologise for my actions Bernard Ingham took slimeball to the lowest level, complete smug bastard. I've no hatred towards Thatcher like some although why she ever took advice from a cockwomble like that is beyond me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 9:10:11 GMT 1
Steve Rotheram too. Another MP who wouldn't give in. He was there that day. And Boris Johnson... oh wait... Love to see the Tory boys on here defend those comments! Tory boys like Tony Blair, who refused further investigation during his reign. It goes deeper than left and right.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 9:40:18 GMT 1
I know, I know. You win 1 nil. Good job you didn't have a bet with him. He's very honourable about paying gambling debts.... The idea is to pay if you lose the bet, not win it.
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Post by workshyfop on Apr 28, 2016 9:56:34 GMT 1
Good job you didn't have a bet with him. He's very honourable about paying gambling debts.... The idea is to pay if you lose the bet, not win it. There was no bet.
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Post by workshyfop on Apr 28, 2016 9:57:36 GMT 1
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Apr 28, 2016 13:21:46 GMT 1
If 96 police officers had of died that day, I wonder how many Liverpool fans would of been sent to prison all those years ago.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 28, 2016 15:07:06 GMT 1
barbie,, the police can close ranks as quick and as firmly as they like.. people above them with much more power and influence took this over early on and the cover up began. you can always say that police officers should have spoken out etc, job, livelihood and family on the line? thats a different question.. The politicians today on all sides will be major players in cover ups and will be complicit in many falsehoods to preserve or enhance their careers but the awful truth is that many of them know where the cover up went up to and who was involved but now know that it will be almost impossible to get to them. Their speeches today were another slap in the face of justice. The police who will have been under pressure for 27 years to continue the cover up will be hung out to dry and those above them who ordered the cover up and facilitated its length and breadth will never be named.. A few police officers from back then and one now will be the only fall out. We all knew years ago about the cover up and the lies and inconsistencies, the verdict would have been the same then as now. It smells badly of the time is right to go ahead, all our skeletons in the cupboard are covered... I may come across as a conspiracy theorist but I personally believe all the people who spoke in parliament today would conspire at the drop of a hat if it meant stopping them getting in the shit or forwarding their careers. Remember how long and hard they fought and hid an 'expenses claims' investigation..?? Galph You've hinted several times to a cover up that, went much higher than the police service. Indeed the way I read your numerous posts you would seem to see the Police Officers who appear to have been all too ready to participate in the cover up, as scapegoats. Are you in possession of facts that support the existence of a cover up orchestrated at a level higher than the police authority, or is this just speculation? artysid.. not speculation, its clear as the nose on your face it went higher and it went higher very quickly. You cant manipulate all the media in the space of time it took. You cant go through inquests and then delay and delay till the higher up 'skeletons' are totally gone before 'demanding' a final inquest after allowing an independent enquiry(which clearly was anything but) to set up the scene for finally 'coming clean' and producing the 'whole truth'. Politicians and high ranking officials have been firstly the 'movers' in the cover up and since then 'complicit' in it and then 'delayers and stallers' before finally this current lot of 'truth and justice seekers' have been able to laud it up and look like 'friends of the bereaved and the bloody saviours of the nation' because its now deemed 'safe and politically advantageous' to be so.. The Iraq enquiry... just another one, still being held up by all political sides because the guilty are still associated with them and the 'time' is just not good for them.. There were calls to publish now from all sides from politicians with no clout, why?? because it looks like the parties want it published and they want truth and justice but not too much too soon..
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 14:32:47 GMT 1
Let's hope they get justice yeah ? That's all any football fan should crave yeah ? What would justice look like? I cannot see a satisfactory ending to this. Do you think it's more satisfactory now than when you wrote this ?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 14:35:18 GMT 1
I don't believe every tragedy needs to have someone to blame. It was a combination of circumstances for which no one person or body should be held accountable. Lessons have been learned, time to move on and let them rest in peace. Do you still think that ?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 14:41:08 GMT 1
I said the same thing when I was in the leppings a couple of years later... The deaths were a culmination of appalling mismanagement on all levels ..police.. FA . SWFC .. Government Out of curiosity Ted, do you lay any responsibility in what happened (even 1%) at the hands of any of the followers of Liverpool that day?. (Or do you solely blame the 'establishment')?. Now the truth has been presented to you maybe you might wish to have a re think ?
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 30, 2016 14:42:45 GMT 1
I don't believe every tragedy needs to have someone to blame. It was a combination of circumstances for which no one person or body should be held accountable. Lessons have been learned, time to move on and let them rest in peace. Do you still think that ? it was a combination of circumstances that started years before the game and have continued for almost 27 years after it that has been blamed on a very, very small number of people. If that is what the relatives want and the public agree, who are the politicians to argue.. never, ever going to be anything else, unfortunately for the 'full truth'... History was re-written once, it looks like it can be again, because it suits.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 14:49:29 GMT 1
Do you still think that ? it was a combination of circumstances that started years before the game and have continued for almost 27 years after it that has been blamed on a very, very small number of people. If that is what the relatives want and the public agree, who are the politicians to argue.. never, ever going to be anything else, unfortunately for the 'full truth'... History was re-written once, it looks like it can be again, because it suits. You appear to have completely ignored the findings of the two year inquiry .. which actually unearthed very little new evidence .. anyone who chose to look at the facts has known what happened for 25 years... one of the most abominable mismanagements .. and cover ups .. in the history of our country .. and now a jury had said it .. and FULL apologies have been forwarded ... if you wish to see it otherwise go ahead .. but your opinion is not based on fact
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Post by detox on Apr 30, 2016 14:53:02 GMT 1
What is inevitable is that those in 'high places', in Govt, Police or wherever will always get away with it on the basis that it is not in the 'national Interest' to have the establishment in the UK hauled before the courts - it would cause untold unrest within the country resulting in civil disorder with much damage to property and people's welfare might be at risk.. This argument can be used any time to protect themselves..either cover it up, or risk civil unrest. the answer will always be that risking disorder and loss of confidence in the machinery of the state is not worth risking, regardless of the offences they have committed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 15:37:05 GMT 1
What is inevitable is that those in 'high places', in Govt, Police or wherever will always get away with it on the basis that it is not in the 'national Interest' to have the establishment in the UK hauled before the courts - it would cause untold unrest within the country resulting in civil disorder with much damage to property and people's welfare might be at risk.. This argument can be used any time to protect themselves..either cover it up, or risk civil unrest. the answer will always be that risking disorder and loss of confidence in the machinery of the state is not worth risking, regardless of the offences they have committed. That is rubbish IMO.
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Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 30, 2016 15:47:06 GMT 1
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 30, 2016 16:57:31 GMT 1
it was a combination of circumstances that started years before the game and have continued for almost 27 years after it that has been blamed on a very, very small number of people. If that is what the relatives want and the public agree, who are the politicians to argue.. never, ever going to be anything else, unfortunately for the 'full truth'... History was re-written once, it looks like it can be again, because it suits. You appear to have completely ignored the findings of the two year inquiry .. which actually unearthed very little new evidence .. anyone who chose to look at the facts has known what happened for 25 years... one of the most abominable mismanagements .. and cover ups .. in the history of our country .. and now a jury had said it .. and FULL apologies have been forwarded ... if you wish to see it otherwise go ahead .. but your opinion is not based on fact missing the point.. the police were highly culpbable and that was self evident a long, long time ago. The enquries have concentrated on that culpability... this inquest has done likewise. FULL apologies will never come from persons further up the food chain. Said before and I repeat the same 'mistakes and mismanagement' took place a number of times at football matches before and around the time of this one, they were not fatal and were ignored. If you still think a middle ranking police officer and a few of his mates can organise with the speed it took a full cover up for as long as they did, then please carry on believing. The inquest was allowed now and the findings as they are have been allowed now because the political overseers of the cover up and subsequent minions who became top dogs have covered their tracks fully. You and I know they would sell their grandmothers arse for a vote and sell us all out to move up the pecking order. When they reveal the politicians and high ranking officials who were the instigators and movers and continuers of this cover up, then justice will be done.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 17:39:04 GMT 1
You appear to have completely ignored the findings of the two year inquiry .. which actually unearthed very little new evidence .. anyone who chose to look at the facts has known what happened for 25 years... one of the most abominable mismanagements .. and cover ups .. in the history of our country .. and now a jury had said it .. and FULL apologies have been forwarded ... if you wish to see it otherwise go ahead .. but your opinion is not based on fact missing the point.. the police were highly culpbable and that was self evident a long, long time ago. The enquries have concentrated on that culpability... this inquest has done likewise. FULL apologies will never come from persons further up the food chain. Said before and I repeat the same 'mistakes and mismanagement' took place a number of times at football matches before and around the time of this one, they were not fatal and were ignored. If you still think a middle ranking police officer and a few of his mates can organise with the speed it took a full cover up for as long as they did, then please carry on believing. The inquest was allowed now and the findings as they are have been allowed now because the political overseers of the cover up and subsequent minions who became top dogs have covered their tracks fully. You and I know they would sell their grandmothers arse for a vote and sell us all out to move up the pecking order. When they reveal the politicians and high ranking officials who were the instigators and movers and continuers of this cover up, then justice will be done. Speculative conspiracy theory bollox unless you put up some supporting facts! Is it not clear that the man in charge, a middle ranking Police officer, lied within minutes of making an inept decision and he was then probably backed up by the man in charge overall, a high ranking Police officer who had recently promoted him, by supporting him with an instutionalised cover-up to protect their backs and blame the powerless football fan (pissed-up ticketless hooligans for breaking in). The politicians were told who to blame, or are you saying they, and we, should have been disbelieving of Police statements on such a catastrophe back then?
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Post by kennyk2 on Apr 30, 2016 17:40:09 GMT 1
It seems as if this thread is turning into perfect Guardinista fodder.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 17:55:16 GMT 1
It seems as if this thread is turning into perfect Guardinista fodder. What do you mean by that Ken ?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 30, 2016 18:09:53 GMT 1
missing the point.. the police were highly culpbable and that was self evident a long, long time ago. The enquries have concentrated on that culpability... this inquest has done likewise. FULL apologies will never come from persons further up the food chain. Said before and I repeat the same 'mistakes and mismanagement' took place a number of times at football matches before and around the time of this one, they were not fatal and were ignored. If you still think a middle ranking police officer and a few of his mates can organise with the speed it took a full cover up for as long as they did, then please carry on believing. The inquest was allowed now and the findings as they are have been allowed now because the political overseers of the cover up and subsequent minions who became top dogs have covered their tracks fully. You and I know they would sell their grandmothers arse for a vote and sell us all out to move up the pecking order. When they reveal the politicians and high ranking officials who were the instigators and movers and continuers of this cover up, then justice will be done. Speculative conspiracy theory bollox unless you put up some supporting facts! Is it not clear that the man in charge, a middle ranking Police officer, lied within minutes of making an inept decision and he was then probably backed up by the man in charge overall, a high ranking Police officer who had recently promoted him, by supporting him with an instutionalised cover-up to protect their backs and blame the powerless football fan (pissed-up ticketless hooligans for breaking in). The politicians were told who to blame, or are you saying they, and we, should have been disbelieving of Police statements on such a catastrophe back then? I think galpharms probably right to an extent.... Lots of people to blame here... And I'd be very surprised if it didn't go right to the very top . As in Maggie T ... There is evidence of freemasonry which rarely gets mentioned but is a cancer at the heart of british society .. What is clear is the decision by SWP to move on the capable commander Jim Mole (to Barnsley !!) was a dropped bollock... As was appointing the dictatorial but clueless Freemason Duckinfield... The FA made the calamitous decision to keep giving Hillsborough the semi despite evidence it was an accident waiting to happen.. Sheffield Wednesday are culpable because they had a death trap of a stadium. And bypassed their statutory responsibilities...The lack of prep done by Duckinfield was an absolute disgrace and the decision to allow 1000s into the central pen meant 100 people died... Simple as... The lies began straight away and the press, the government et al were all complicit... The emergency services rightly got a hammering because their response was pitiful and shambolic... Having reflected on it I think DD should go to prison.. And whoever ordered the doctoring of the witness statements .. That's just abhorrent behaviour worthy of prosecution
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Post by Lard Buttie on Apr 30, 2016 18:14:26 GMT 1
It seems as if this thread is turning into perfect Guardinista fodder. Probably cause of David Conn's work over the last umpteen years and his investigations.
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