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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 12:33:52 GMT 1
They defended really well after a couple of lucky goals. Never thought I'd see Newcastle putting 11 men behind the ball all game but to be fair, it worked. If we'd have managed to get an equaliser I can guarantee the Newcastle fans wouldn't have called it a managerial masterclass, they would have been outrage at the tactics used. Fine margins, luck & our mistakes gave them the win, not great tactics. If we were braver in the final 3rd & abit of luck it could have been a completely different game. We move on to the next game with our heads held high. large gulf between a great away win and a great away performance sometimes.. one mans great defending is very much dependent on wether they get the point(s), not how they got them... bit like villa away.. we had a very lucky night.. you take the point and dont embarrass yourself by over egging your 'performance and hefs arse' to get it.. I will take a lucky win/draw anytime but I do think if you have a few in a row the shit will probably hit the fan at some point.. Over 46 games the top teams will 'grind out' results but obviously many fewer than the teams below them..
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Post by leedsroadrob on Mar 5, 2017 12:35:51 GMT 1
It was claimed Joe, and Ritchie's said there was contact; buggered if I can see any though on the highlights - Wells seemed at pains to get out of his way and to show the ref he was doing that.
Just watching the highlights again, the penalty was only even possible because Wells was claiming for handball rather than watching play. Now that, unlike the vagaries of refs, Wagner can control.
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Post by itsmemick on Mar 5, 2017 12:35:58 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so.
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Post by morleyterrier on Mar 5, 2017 12:37:36 GMT 1
Define 'better'.
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Post by Giggity on Mar 5, 2017 12:38:36 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. Talking shite. Rotherham came here and gave it a better go than Newcastle and they spent £60m less on players in the Summer. But for all 3 goals we gifted them, they struggled to string a few passes together let alone create any chances of their own and show they are a good side. They got lucky big time.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 12:42:32 GMT 1
Newcastle might have done a good defensive job on us yesterday but they were able to do that by the gifting of the very early penalty. I have watched it back this morning and, disregarding the deliberate handball by Shelvey, it is a classic example of the nasty sneaky trick that is creeping into the game of players wrapping one foot round the back of the other heel and bringing themselves down. Wells doesn't touch him, he brings himself down. When replays are shown the co-commentator (sorry, not sure who he he was) also admits that there was no contact from Wells and that Ritchie trips himself up. It is nothing less than cheating and until the authorities crack down on it with lengthy bans then players will continue to get away with it. said as it happened..he has lost control, knocked it too far and was looking to clip a town player.. he tried and failed but still went down.. difference between me and mr east?? I have played and watched football all my life, I was immediately looking for his next action and knew it might be coming in an instant. He gets paid to ref big games? clearly just knows the rule book and either has little 'playing' experience or wanted to be 'noticed'.... Elias is running into 'traffic' I know he is going to go over if he cant get the ball away... both linos were guilty of watching the game rather than the last man, its becoming an everyday occurrence.. having to run 10/15 yards back to then put up the flag means you were never, ever in line.. This is also being caused by the stupid guess as to wether someone in 'interfeering'....waiting till the bloke miles offside and chasing the ball touches it is clearly bollox..any movement at all in the general direction is interfering..
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Post by leedsroadrob on Mar 5, 2017 12:45:13 GMT 1
They did a great job on Brown. Kicked lumps off him but more importantly denied him the space that he has thrived on against lesser teams. Yeah, perhaps Rafa got that one right then, together with the royal parking of the omnibus, and we'll need to be a whole lot cleverer against Premier League managers.
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ilsonterrier
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Post by ilsonterrier on Mar 5, 2017 12:46:19 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. Did what we had to - roughly translated as "cheat to win a penalty" Your post is very informative and makes some valid points. However, you seem to conveniently forget to mention that your game plan was only able to be executed well because Shelvey/Ritchie cheated to win a penalty and the referee fell for it, thus allowing you to defend for the main part of the game.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 12:48:41 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. 'win without playing well' ?? that wasnt the story yesterday.. winning because the major decisions(all 3 were wrong including our penalty) go your way isnt winning without playing well.. we have won games this season without playing well but we were honest enough to realise it on here and it got stated a lot(to the annoyance of many).. We have yet to win a game solely on getting the right end of very bad officials decisions.. honesty please...
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Post by itsmemick on Mar 5, 2017 12:52:01 GMT 1
I keep hearing that Rafa had perfect tactics etc but if that was the case, wouldn't he have stuck with them for 90 minutes? He came here to get men behind the ball but I guarantee you he didn't expect to be completely dominated and on the back foot all game. He was worried and knew it was only heading one way hence sticking two pacey players up top to try relieve the pressure but they still couldn't string two passes together. Nothing fell for us around the box. You can say that is good defending or you can say that it is partly luck. Pull backs falling in the wrong area, shots in the six yard box being blocked etc. Look at their goal the other night for example. Plus it's hard to create too many clear openings when your players are being cynically fouled when breaking through Rafa did have the perfect tactics, the result proves that he did. My guess is that he set us up to keep it tight from the start and would have changed our game if we'd gone behind. Why would he keep everything the same for 90 minutes? He had a plan B and he used it by giving you something else to think about. We had a tough game on Tuesday and had tired legs which he replaced with fresh legs. Some of what happened yesterday was down to luck, we made our own luck because the whole team worked their butts off.
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Post by wtd on Mar 5, 2017 12:53:04 GMT 1
Haven't read the thread but, for me, the 'best team' were denied a level playing field after ten minutes because one of the other team's players cheated and the referee bought it. What happens after that is not a true reflection of the strengths and values of the two teams because one was afforded an unfair advantage that then affects the way the two teams manage their game.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 12:55:59 GMT 1
They did a great job on Brown. Kicked lumps off him but more importantly denied him the space that he has thrived on against lesser teams. Yes they were better defensively than other teams we've faced but again when you're only trying to defend and no intention to even bother with the breakaway then the task is far easier. The ref gave far too much leeway with their fouling too- did not protect out players at all. We are very lucky to have escaped without (hopefully) any serious injuries. Should applaud them. Get two up and see the game out.
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Post by itsmemick on Mar 5, 2017 12:56:16 GMT 1
This 'allowed us to have the ball' thing is complete and utter drivel, they adapted their game to defend because they couldn't get the ball off us. If we'd have cut out the mistakes we made and been more clinical nobody would have been saying it was a great tactical game by them. They were battered in everything other than scoreline. It's not utter drivel.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 12:58:54 GMT 1
We could have had 6 against Wolves. oddly enough, I spoke with 3 town fans in the pub last night. I dont know them personally, they all mentioned the wolves game as one that we started well in and then had to rely on saves and really poor misses to scrape a win in?? football its about opinions and how you 'remember' different things..? I remember all those early home games. Every game we could have been 3 up in 10 minutes and 6 up by half time. In each game we then had a dodgy 25 minutes at the start of the second half and then either came good/held on comfortably 😀
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 13:02:08 GMT 1
We didn't have any good chances. We had plenty of cracks from outside the box. We didn't get in the box enough. If you appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate do you appreciate the first 2 were a handball and a foul. Agree we didn't have good chances Last was fortunate, first was not a penalty. Second I'm not sure on the rules. Would think anyone who has played footie and had their foot in like Murphy, wouldn't see anything much wrong with it. However, if the rules say one hand on the ball is enough - then it was a foul.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Mar 5, 2017 13:02:49 GMT 1
So, you got lucky because you worked your bollocks off. If only our player's had known that trait, the lazy bugger's. The ref must have been very impressed by your opening few minutes hard graft because "luckily" he chose to ignore shelvy forearming the ball down before Howard jones Matt Ritchie worked hard to get a penalty.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 13:03:39 GMT 1
They did a great job on Brown. Kicked lumps off him but more importantly denied him the space that he has thrived on against lesser teams. Yeah, perhaps Rafa got that one right then, together with the royal parking of the omnibus, and we'll need to be a whole lot cleverer against Premier League managers. We have a problem v that type of defending as per Wendies and Wigan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 13:03:58 GMT 1
Haven't read the thread but, for me, the 'best team' were denied a level playing field after ten minutes because one of the other team's players cheated and the referee bought it. What happens after that is not a true reflection of the strengths and values of the two teams because one was afforded an unfair advantage that then effects the way the two teams manage their game. Spot on.
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Post by specialun on Mar 5, 2017 13:05:22 GMT 1
Haven't read the thread but, for me, the 'best team' were denied a level playing field after ten minutes because one of the other team's players cheated and the referee bought it. What happens after that is not a true reflection of the strengths and values of the two teams because one was afforded an unfair advantage that then effects the way the two teams manage their game. Spot on. Agreed - they were well organised, drilled etc but that's easy when your given a goal by the referee!
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 5, 2017 13:06:18 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. defending manfully against an onslaught is all well and good if you've gone ahead by great attacking play. that 'might' constitute the best team winning or the perfect away performance.. that isn't what happened though. they went ahead due to referee error. they went further ahead due to a keeper error. They kept 10 men on the pitch due to a referee error. Scored again through another error as desperation set in. They did defend very well- but that included riding their luck many times. For me Town were much the better side- dominant throughout- and that is why football is the great game it is- the poorer side can win.
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Post by Jack on Mar 5, 2017 13:07:01 GMT 1
If's, but's, coulda's, woulda's and shoulda's aside for the last 85 minutes of the game it was attack vs defence, and their defence/team was more effective (better) than our attack/team.
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Post by itsmemick on Mar 5, 2017 13:07:02 GMT 1
I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. Did what we had to - roughly translated as "cheat to win a penalty" Your post is very informative and makes some valid points. However, you seem to conveniently forget to mention that your game plan was only able to be executed well because Shelvey/Ritchie cheated to win a penalty and the referee fell for it, thus allowing you to defend for the main part of the game. I didn't see the Shelvey handball in real time and only noticed it later when replays were shown so I can understand how the referee missed it. I think there was contact on Ritchie and you will go down when you're running as pace, even if it is minimal contact. The handball should have meant that we didn't get a penalty, I don't think either player cheated as Shelvey moved his arm only slightly and he'll have had a no time to think about what he was doing, it was probably an instinctive action. Personally, I thought both penalties were harsh and I wouldn't have given either of them.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 13:08:28 GMT 1
Yeah, perhaps Rafa got that one right then, together with the royal parking of the omnibus, and we'll need to be a whole lot cleverer against Premier League managers. We have a problem v that type of defending as per Wendies and Wigan. big defenders sitting deep? ball goes in at pace from the wide, quicker and more often, head height or lower, gives everyone a chance.? big lads like to get set.. like bambi on ice when they dont get time... playing in front of them is a gift... trying to always squeeze it through the eye of a needle is tough.. all the above because we do not have a big target striker.. thats not an argument, we dont have one and thats that...
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Post by itsmemick on Mar 5, 2017 13:08:35 GMT 1
I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. 'win without playing well' ?? that wasnt the story yesterday.. winning because the major decisions(all 3 were wrong including our penalty) go your way isnt winning without playing well.. we have won games this season without playing well but we were honest enough to realise it on here and it got stated a lot(to the annoyance of many).. We have yet to win a game solely on getting the right end of very bad officials decisions.. honesty please... The only decisions that could be questioned are the two soft penalties.
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Post by Jack on Mar 5, 2017 13:10:10 GMT 1
Things got a bit more interesting after the ref evened things up by giving us a soft penalty to match theirs but we were limited to a handful of long range efforts. The stats mean nothing. Newcastle played the hand we dealt them and did it very effectively. Tuesday night's massive and won't be easy against a Villa side now under little pressure. And the endless whining about referees needs to stop. I think that sums up in one sentence what it took me 10 paragraphs to say!
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Post by blueandbrightside on Mar 5, 2017 13:11:19 GMT 1
Refs get the odd decision wrong, they are human so we can forgive them that, once we've vented at them for a bit anyway. What I can't forgive them is the inability to control teams who's main aim is to spoil a game, usually via constant fouling when there is even a sniff a player might get a yard away, and time-wasting. Can they not see the these fouls and realise when constantly done they are worse than letting the player go and then genuinely trying to chase and tackle from behind and then miss-timing it, which they then a card for straight away... And when you can just stand there and watch a player stand to take a throw in, then turn and walk to the advertising boards, carefully put the ball on the floor and run away, or a goalkeeper deliberately stand so the ball hits him on the head and bounce the wrong way to restart the game etc etc, well I'm sorry but you've left yours in the changing room and can fully expect people to feel short changed from your performance. Stop the negative stuff and we might see the people who genuinely want to play football shine a bit more. I bet Brown feels more like he's been used as a football this morning rather than played in a game.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 5, 2017 13:11:25 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. It was somewhere between this and what most on here are saying (now red mist has left in the main).
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 5, 2017 13:11:29 GMT 1
I keep hearing that Rafa had perfect tactics etc but if that was the case, wouldn't he have stuck with them for 90 minutes? He came here to get men behind the ball but I guarantee you he didn't expect to be completely dominated and on the back foot all game. He was worried and knew it was only heading one way hence sticking two pacey players up top to try relieve the pressure but they still couldn't string two passes together. Nothing fell for us around the box. You can say that is good defending or you can say that it is partly luck. Pull backs falling in the wrong area, shots in the six yard box being blocked etc. Look at their goal the other night for example. Plus it's hard to create too many clear openings when your players are being cynically fouled when breaking through Rafa did have the perfect tactics, the result proves that he did. My guess is that he set us up to keep it tight from the start and would have changed our game if we'd gone behind. Why would he keep everything the same for 90 minutes? He had a plan B and he used it by giving you something else to think about. We had a tough game on Tuesday and had tired legs which he replaced with fresh legs. Some of what happened yesterday was down to luck, we made our own luck because the whole team worked their butts off. What were his perfect tactics exactly?? To rely on bad refereeing decisions going your way and a lousy keeper error?? You were really poor on the day. Got handed a 2 goal cushion and managed to hang onto it by parking the bus. Its the results that count, but if you think it was some 'tactical genius' by benitez, youre kidding yourself. You are very much getting the rub lately. Look through your last dozen or so league goals and its an array of blunders, ricochets, own goals, flukes .. Maybe you put luck like that down to Benitez and his tactics?
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Post by ACW on Mar 5, 2017 13:13:23 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with most of that, I thought that we managed the game perfectly and did what we had to at this stage of the season to get the points which we need. The game would have been totally different if you had scored the first goal because we would have changed our game and gone for you more. Whether that would have worked or not, we'll never know. I thought that you were good on the eye but lacked something, you didn't have anybody who could open us up. Our defending last night was as good as I have ever seen from us and I don't think we could have done that earlier in the season so you should take that as a positive. As for not liking our defensive display, sometimes you have to and I think you will come to realise that you can't have only one way of playing. Against Brighton we played a different way to win the game because we had to, they sometimes like to sit back and hit you, at least they did against Reading so we played a way that was effective. You can throw all the stat's you want at us, which in this post you haven't but some others have. The only stat's that matter at this stage of the season is the scoreline and I think you would soon get over playing a defensive game once in a while if it meant you were going to gain promotion and it is probably something you have to work on. I thought Huddersfield were a bit naive thinking keeping the ball would be enough to win, maybe you need to look for an older more experienced forward who can offer you something different, maybe a Daryl Murphy. You can still go up and I hope that you do but you might struggle against teams who know how to win without playing well. If you do go up the game yesterday is one that you need to learn from as we did give you something of a lesson. All of the pretty football comes to nothing if you don't win the game because no league table takes possession into consideration when awarding points. I would be very disappointed if we played the way that we did yesterday for every game, we don't. We play a different game every week and we play the way that we think is going to win and at this stage of the season it's right to do so. Fair enough but I was shocked at Newcastle's inability to string two passes together. You got a lucky two goal lead, defended very well, but your lack of quality on the ball was alarming. I never thought I'd see a Newcastle team play like Wimbledon, but that's what I saw last night. We didn't help ourselves at times, but most of the telling decisions went against us and both our goalkeepers made mistakes. In fact, take out the luck/mistakes and a game of attack v defence ends up 0-0. Don't get me wrong, luck/mistakes are part of football, but none of Newcastle'goals came from great play. I can't remember you having one decent break except for perhaps the second goal. Other than that you struggled to put more than two passes together before hoofing the ball up the pitch. Effective on the night, but absolutely terrible to watch. Anyway, we have a chance to put things right against Villa on Tues. I have nothing against Newcastle, but I was genuinely shocked at how poor they were on the ball. It is likely you will be in the Prem next season, but I would suggest such tactics won't be as successful against better teams than Town. I suspect Newcastle will have to learn how to pass the ball to each other...
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 5, 2017 13:14:05 GMT 1
'win without playing well' ?? that wasnt the story yesterday.. winning because the major decisions(all 3 were wrong including our penalty) go your way isnt winning without playing well.. we have won games this season without playing well but we were honest enough to realise it on here and it got stated a lot(to the annoyance of many).. We have yet to win a game solely on getting the right end of very bad officials decisions.. honesty please... The only decisions that could be questioned are the two soft penalties. Colback should have been off. On a booking he did a clear professional foul, pulling back a tiown player who was breaking through your lines. Right in front of the ref and he let him off. rafa knew he wouldn't get let off again and subbed him almost immediately.
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