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Post by Jack on Mar 5, 2017 10:26:03 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday.
Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down.
I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head.
Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view.
The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games.
Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them.
Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory.
Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan.
If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did?
So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night.
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Post by woolley on Mar 5, 2017 10:32:16 GMT 1
I think that the difference was they had 3 good chances and scored 3 goals. Appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate. We had loads of good chances and scored 1. We need to be able to convert more chances. We need to shoot from range more, billing and I think it was Mooy who made the keeper produce good saves and on another day, they can go in or rebound to one of our players. We try and pass to much in and around the box, have a crack sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 10:43:41 GMT 1
I keep hearing that Rafa had perfect tactics etc but if that was the case, wouldn't he have stuck with them for 90 minutes?
He came here to get men behind the ball but I guarantee you he didn't expect to be completely dominated and on the back foot all game. He was worried and knew it was only heading one way hence sticking two pacey players up top to try relieve the pressure but they still couldn't string two passes together.
Nothing fell for us around the box. You can say that is good defending or you can say that it is partly luck. Pull backs falling in the wrong area, shots in the six yard box being blocked etc. Look at their goal the other night for example. Plus it's hard to create too many clear openings when your players are being cynically fouled when breaking through
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Post by sonny on Mar 5, 2017 10:49:08 GMT 1
Things got a bit more interesting after the ref evened things up by giving us a soft penalty to match theirs but we were limited to a handful of long range efforts. The stats mean nothing. Newcastle played the hand we dealt them and did it very effectively. Tuesday night's massive and won't be easy against a Villa side now under little pressure.
And the endless whining about referees needs to stop.
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Post by Jack on Mar 5, 2017 10:49:26 GMT 1
I think that the difference was they had 3 good chances and scored 3 goals. Appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate. We had loads of good chances and scored 1. We need to be able to convert more chances. We need to shoot from range more, billing and I think it was Mooy who made the keeper produce good saves and on another day, they can go in or rebound to one of our players. We try and pass to much in and around the box, have a crack sometimes. I'm not sure we did create loads of chances. Sure, we had a handful of good opportunistic long range shots (Billing, Mooy, VLP & Lowe) and a couple of freekicks but can't recall a single clear cut chance inside the box. They didn't give us a sniff.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 10:51:08 GMT 1
We went through a similar problem last year where we struggled to net goals and plenty on here demanding another striker. Barnsley and what I saw last night reminded me of that dilemma ,plenty of good play but no end result.Need to quickly get back to our form since New Year.
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Post by Metch on Mar 5, 2017 10:51:26 GMT 1
They were fortunate to get the penalty which allowed them to play their defensive game. Could easily have been a very different match without the penalty. Against Brighton and us, Newcastle have got the rub of the green. No need for a detailed post mortem, onto Villa, another tough game.
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Post by richhtfc on Mar 5, 2017 11:00:58 GMT 1
This 'allowed us to have the ball' thing is complete and utter drivel, they adapted their game to defend because they couldn't get the ball off us. If we'd have cut out the mistakes we made and been more clinical nobody would have been saying it was a great tactical game by them. They were battered in everything other than scoreline.
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E4b
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Post by E4b on Mar 5, 2017 11:11:08 GMT 1
England v Iceland all over again.
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Yuta be a terrier
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Mar 5, 2017 11:17:02 GMT 1
We lacked a cutting edge yesterday. This is nothing new hence the reason we have won 20 games but only have a GD of +6. Worth remembering that the combined fees of Newcastles goal scorers was £25m, we simply do not have those resources. Our top scorer is essentially our right winger. Our best player and our first choice left winger have scored less combined than our centre half. Perspective is needed. It's a miracle with our lack of goals we are where we are. We are there because our level of performance is consistently high. Remember Newcastle were the shortest odds ever for promotion in August and I bet they would tell you we have given them their 2 toughest games. We need to stop whining and feeling hard done by. We got some rough decisions yesterday but we have had some luck too recently. Some of the town fans on twitter are embarrassing and come across really tinpot. We are here through hard work and concentrating on ourselves. Now is not the time to start feeling bitter and blaming others. I still maintain we are the best and most consistently high performing team in this league even if we aren't the most clinical. We need to shelve yesterday and concentrate on what is now a massive 3 games before the international break.
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Post by kennyk2 on Mar 5, 2017 11:20:39 GMT 1
England v Iceland all over again. Don't agree. You could see total fear in the English players eyes and panic in their play. I didn't see any fear or panic in our players last night.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 11:21:43 GMT 1
We went through a similar problem last year where we struggled to net goals and plenty on here demanding another striker. Barnsley and what I saw last night reminded me of that dilemma ,plenty of good play but no end result.Need to quickly get back to our form since New Year. Think it's because we delay the ball out wide and try and get the perfect ball to Wells as he's unlikely to win any hopeful aerial ball into the box. He ends up being sucked out wide to join the attack and we're then stuck in a position with nobody to aim for. Throw in that Kachunga has been off the boil for a couple of months and our goal scoring players aren't really involved. Think Collin should have been brought on far earlier last night (although when he did come out he looked totally lost) ... but I guess its a Wagner trait that when the performance level is good (and it was last night), then he seems to let them just carry on, even though it was becoming more obvious from 15 minutes onwards that the performance was good, but was ineffective.
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Post by leedsroadrob on Mar 5, 2017 11:24:05 GMT 1
Yeah, pretty straightforward I think - they got 2 lucky goals and were organised enough to get behind the ball and keep us out. Had they not gone 2 goals up, it would have been a better match and more openings for Town. They probably deserved to shade it 2-1 for their organisation, but they were only able to do this with the lucky 2-0 lead.
Agree with sonny that banging on about the ref is tiresome. By all means get on their back during the game if you reckon they're not giving us what we deserve - we might get the odd consolation pen - but endless tripe after the game gets us where exactly?
Coleman made a complete pig's ear of the third (and shouldn't have been encouraged to get forward). 1) don't do it again, 2) simple mistake, he should be proud of what he's done in the cup and the odd league match and build.
Finally, I thought Brown was worryingly ineffective yesterday.
Anyway, 3rd premier league opposition in a row Tuesday - let's beat one of them or else not sure I'm looking forward to promotion! UTT!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 11:25:51 GMT 1
Give any team in the top 8 a free 2-0 headstart and you'll see some 'perfect tactics' and organised defence. It's not hard is it? It's even easier when most of your players played t a higher level and when anyone does get through you are allowed to hack them down. The OP is far too easily impressed imo.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 11:27:14 GMT 1
I keep hearing that Rafa had perfect tactics etc but if that was the case, wouldn't he have stuck with them for 90 minutes? He came here to get men behind the ball but I guarantee you he didn't expect to be completely dominated and on the back foot all game. He was worried and knew it was only heading one way hence sticking two pacey players up top to try relieve the pressure but they still couldn't string two passes together. Nothing fell for us around the box. You can say that is good defending or you can say that it is partly luck. Pull backs falling in the wrong area, shots in the six yard box being blocked etc. Look at their goal the other night for example. Plus it's hard to create too many clear openings when your players are being cynically fouled when breaking through bit sick and tired of hearing how 'clever' these tactics are of being completely dominated, have your keeper make a number of saves and get away with a number of melees in the box and scratch a win by a decision or two going your way??? I was at Brentford when our super 'tactics' produced one deflected goal and Smithies saved shot after shot whilst the brentford team missed a shitload of others. At no f-cking point did I mention our superb 'tactical master f-cking plan'.. We got lucky and got away with it.. Newcastle did yesterday, Leeds did last week against the Wendies.. This is not clever management its teams getting away with it.. Wolves at home was a game where we 'got away with it'.. Lets ffs at least get some honesty back into the game.. A master plan away win does not involved a shitload of luck and decisions going your way, its getting away with it!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 5, 2017 11:28:27 GMT 1
I think that the difference was they had 3 good chances and scored 3 goals. Appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate. We had loads of good chances and scored 1. We need to be able to convert more chances. We need to shoot from range more, billing and I think it was Mooy who made the keeper produce good saves and on another day, they can go in or rebound to one of our players. We try and pass to much in and around the box, have a crack sometimes. I'm not sure we did create loads of chances. Sure, we had a handful of good opportunistic long range shots (Billing, Mooy, VLP & Lowe) and a couple of freekicks but can't recall a single clear cut chance inside the box. They didn't give us a sniff. Scramble near the line, scuffed shot along the floor centrally from Brown, Hefeles header, there must have been 5 occasions in the box where a lucky bounce saved Newcastle and the shot was not got off. All the loose balls went their way. They were solid but best team? They only had the ball under control in our half about 5 times. 76% possession, treble shots, treble the corners and 3 top class saves says we battered them.
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Post by malcolmbrown on Mar 5, 2017 11:46:59 GMT 1
Judging by some of the love-in posts and threads on here this won't go down particularly well but for me there's no doubt that the best team won yesterday. Essentially Newcastle were far better able to defend against us than we were in our ability to break them down. I would go as far as saying that that was the best (defensive) performance I've seen at the John Smith's, especially under the circumstances of two promotional rivals going head to head. Don't get me wrong I was immensely proud of our team last night and in many ways I'd rather play like we did and fail than play like Newcastle did and succeed but let's not be fooled that the best team lost. That's a pretty blinkered view. The stats look favourable for us and we were easy on the eye but from 10 minutes on Newcastle allowed us to have the ball and restrict us to long range efforts. We constantly kept coming up against a brick wall (Shelvy, Colback & Diame) and that's before we even got a look at breaching their back four, even for our penalty Kachunga was going nowhere. Their game management was superb and we all know that stats and possession don't necessarily win games. Mourinho won Premier League titles from a similar defensive base and it looks like Newcastle will win our league. I don't like it but fair play to them. Our own performance was not dissimilar to Barnsley last week where we definitley were the better team but also didn't win. Barnsley looked shakey at the back, we got round them several times and bar a few blocks, good saves, poor finishing and a dose of bad luck we deserved to win. Last night Newcastle were superb defensively, allowed us to play in front of them and fully deserved the victory. Of course, they were helped by an early goal which was a penalty but it shouldn't have got to that stage because of the Shelvy handball. A ref has cost us there not for the first time but shit happens. Wells clipped him no doubt but what infuriates me most is that we didn't get a similar one against Wigan. If we'd have taken a 10 minute lead, and/or gone two up after half an hour, do you think we'd have seen it out as comfortably as Newcastle did? So, well done Newcastle. Very well played. Good luck next season in the Prem and I hope we get chance to avenge this defeat then by gunning down Brighton or going up via the Play-Offs. I think we will because we are a very good team despite not being the best one last night. I agree with a lot of that but their penalty was a very clear non penalty. I've seen it several times. Anyway onwards and upwards.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 11:53:49 GMT 1
I said before the game that we would outplay them, and that the result would rest on the decisions, as proved to be the case. They were fortunate to find themselves 2-0 up, which allowed them the luxury of defending deep. Yes, they defended very well in this situation, and they are strong defensively, but if they'd had to come out and play more it would have been a different game, IMHO. Would they have sat back if we had gone one or two nil up?
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 11:58:14 GMT 1
I think that the difference was they had 3 good chances and scored 3 goals. Appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate. We had loads of good chances and scored 1. We need to be able to convert more chances. We need to shoot from range more, billing and I think it was Mooy who made the keeper produce good saves and on another day, they can go in or rebound to one of our players. We try and pass to much in and around the box, have a crack sometimes. We didn't have any good chances. We had plenty of cracks from outside the box. We didn't get in the box enough.
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Post by leedsroadrob on Mar 5, 2017 12:00:34 GMT 1
"Best team" is meaningless when teams are aiming for totally different things: after the 2 goals, Newcastle were just packing the box and keeping us out. 76% possession is because they didn't want / need the ball, not because we're super duper. We ARE super duper, but that's not why we had 76% possession yesterday. Congrats to Terriermentality for creating a - so far - relatively rational thread - not seen one here since the reign of Queen Anne.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 12:00:40 GMT 1
I said before the game that we would outplay them, and that the result would rest on the decisions, as proved to be the case. They were fortunate to find themselves 2-0 up, which allowed them the luxury of defending deep. Yes, they defended very well in this situation, and they are strong defensively, but if they'd had to come out and play more it would have been a different game, IMHO. Would they have sat back if we had gone one or two nil up? would they have been able to sit back with a big target man striker on our bench? might have been interesting... we have enough talent and cleverness on the pitch to be able to take advantage of a team sitting back.. just sometimes the beautiful game coming up against a brick wall needs a bit of height/weight to break through it?
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 12:03:37 GMT 1
I keep hearing that Rafa had perfect tactics etc but if that was the case, wouldn't he have stuck with them for 90 minutes? He came here to get men behind the ball but I guarantee you he didn't expect to be completely dominated and on the back foot all game. He was worried and knew it was only heading one way hence sticking two pacey players up top to try relieve the pressure but they still couldn't string two passes together. Nothing fell for us around the box. You can say that is good defending or you can say that it is partly luck. Pull backs falling in the wrong area, shots in the six yard box being blocked etc. Look at their goal the other night for example. Plus it's hard to create too many clear openings when your players are being cynically fouled when breaking through bit sick and tired of hearing how 'clever' these tactics are of being completely dominated, have your keeper make a number of saves and get away with a number of melees in the box and scratch a win by a decision or two going your way??? I was at Brentford when our super 'tactics' produced one deflected goal and Smithies saved shot after shot whilst the brentford team missed a shitload of others. At no f-cking point did I mention our superb 'tactical master f-cking plan'.. We got lucky and got away with it.. Newcastle did yesterday, Leeds did last week against the Wendies.. This is not clever management its teams getting away with it.. Wolves at home was a game where we 'got away with it'.. Lets ffs at least get some honesty back into the game.. A master plan away win does not involved a shitload of luck and decisions going your way, its getting away with it!!!!!!!!!! We could have had 6 against Wolves.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 5, 2017 12:05:40 GMT 1
Yeah, pretty straightforward I think - they got 2 lucky goals and were organised enough to get behind the ball and keep us out. Had they not gone 2 goals up, it would have been a better match and more openings for Town. They probably deserved to shade it 2-1 for their organisation, but they were only able to do this with the lucky 2-0 lead. Agree with sonny that banging on about the ref is tiresome. By all means get on their back during the game if you reckon they're not giving us what we deserve - we might get the odd consolation pen - but endless tripe after the game gets us where exactly? Coleman made a complete pig's ear of the third (and shouldn't have been encouraged to get forward). 1) don't do it again, 2) simple mistake, he should be proud of what he's done in the cup and the odd league match and build. Finally, I thought Brown was worryingly ineffective yesterday. Anyway, 3rd premier league opposition in a row Tuesday - let's beat one of them or else not sure I'm looking forward to promotion! UTT! They did a great job on Brown. Kicked lumps off him but more importantly denied him the space that he has thrived on against lesser teams.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Mar 5, 2017 12:06:14 GMT 1
They defended really well after a couple of lucky goals. Never thought I'd see Newcastle putting 11 men behind the ball all game but to be fair, it worked. If we'd have managed to get an equaliser I can guarantee the Newcastle fans wouldn't have called it a managerial masterclass, they would have been outrage at the tactics used. Fine margins, luck & our mistakes gave them the win, not great tactics. If we were braver in the final 3rd & abit of luck it could have been a completely different game. We move on to the next game with our heads held high.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 12:10:12 GMT 1
I said before the game that we would outplay them, and that the result would rest on the decisions, as proved to be the case. They were fortunate to find themselves 2-0 up, which allowed them the luxury of defending deep. Yes, they defended very well in this situation, and they are strong defensively, but if they'd had to come out and play more it would have been a different game, IMHO. Would they have sat back if we had gone one or two nil up? I think what left us disappointed was the ref ruined it as a contest with an appalling penalty shout. Neither player even aware of the other. No penalty even claimed. We were looking forward to seeing if we could beat them as we've beaten the other top sides and we were denied the chance to find out. Edit. Let's see if we can put them to the sword next season.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 12:16:22 GMT 1
Yeah, pretty straightforward I think - they got 2 lucky goals and were organised enough to get behind the ball and keep us out. Had they not gone 2 goals up, it would have been a better match and more openings for Town. They probably deserved to shade it 2-1 for their organisation, but they were only able to do this with the lucky 2-0 lead. Agree with sonny that banging on about the ref is tiresome. By all means get on their back during the game if you reckon they're not giving us what we deserve - we might get the odd consolation pen - but endless tripe after the game gets us where exactly? Coleman made a complete pig's ear of the third (and shouldn't have been encouraged to get forward). 1) don't do it again, 2) simple mistake, he should be proud of what he's done in the cup and the odd league match and build. Finally, I thought Brown was worryingly ineffective yesterday. Anyway, 3rd premier league opposition in a row Tuesday - let's beat one of them or else not sure I'm looking forward to promotion! UTT! They did a great job on Brown. Kicked lumps off him but more importantly denied him the space that he has thrived on against lesser teams. Yes they were better defensively than other teams we've faced but again when you're only trying to defend and no intention to even bother with the breakaway then the task is far easier. The ref gave far too much leeway with their fouling too- did not protect out players at all. We are very lucky to have escaped without (hopefully) any serious injuries.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Mar 5, 2017 12:17:43 GMT 1
They'll be coming straight back down using those tactics next season, no doubt about it. Better teams would pick them apart.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 5, 2017 12:19:56 GMT 1
bit sick and tired of hearing how 'clever' these tactics are of being completely dominated, have your keeper make a number of saves and get away with a number of melees in the box and scratch a win by a decision or two going your way??? I was at Brentford when our super 'tactics' produced one deflected goal and Smithies saved shot after shot whilst the brentford team missed a shitload of others. At no f-cking point did I mention our superb 'tactical master f-cking plan'.. We got lucky and got away with it.. Newcastle did yesterday, Leeds did last week against the Wendies.. This is not clever management its teams getting away with it.. Wolves at home was a game where we 'got away with it'.. Lets ffs at least get some honesty back into the game.. A master plan away win does not involved a shitload of luck and decisions going your way, its getting away with it!!!!!!!!!! We could have had 6 against Wolves. oddly enough, I spoke with 3 town fans in the pub last night. I dont know them personally, they all mentioned the wolves game as one that we started well in and then had to rely on saves and really poor misses to scrape a win in?? football its about opinions and how you 'remember' different things..?
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ilsonterrier
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Post by ilsonterrier on Mar 5, 2017 12:28:52 GMT 1
Newcastle might have done a good defensive job on us yesterday but they were able to do that by the gifting of the very early penalty.
I have watched it back this morning and, disregarding the deliberate handball by Shelvey, it is a classic example of the nasty sneaky trick that is creeping into the game of players wrapping one foot round the back of the other heel and bringing themselves down. Wells doesn't touch him, he brings himself down. When replays are shown the co-commentator (sorry, not sure who he he was) also admits that there was no contact from Wells and that Ritchie trips himself up.
It is nothing less than cheating and until the authorities crack down on it with lengthy bans then players will continue to get away with it.
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Post by herefordaway on Mar 5, 2017 12:31:37 GMT 1
I think that the difference was they had 3 good chances and scored 3 goals. Appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate. We had loads of good chances and scored 1. We need to be able to convert more chances. We need to shoot from range more, billing and I think it was Mooy who made the keeper produce good saves and on another day, they can go in or rebound to one of our players. We try and pass to much in and around the box, have a crack sometimes. We didn't have any good chances. We had plenty of cracks from outside the box. We didn't get in the box enough. If you appreciate the 3rd was a tad fortunate do you appreciate the first 2 were a handball and a foul. Agree we didn't have good chances
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