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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 17, 2017 16:07:20 GMT 1
We have. Think in a few finals over the past 40 years weve been unlucky not to do a lot better. Even win it on 2 or 3 occasions. But certainly the last few have been bitterly disappointing. Think any chance we do have is very reliant on Kane. Other nations have shown in the past that if you have one really standout striker, he can carry an average side a long way. And IMO Kane could be good enough to do that. But if hes not on it, or not fit, even getting out of the group will be a decent achievement for this group. Think it will be different in the next few finals after this one though. We do seem to have a pretty good crop of youngsters coming through. So maybe theres some light at the end of the tunnel? I just wish the nation would support the national side more like they do their club sides. "It is what it is, but its my team so I support them".. rather than this fashionable " we're crap so im not interested anymore" attitude. With their club, fans tend to exaggerate the positives. With England its the negatives that get exaggerated. Is that the Harry Kane clap?...only kidding Waterloo.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 17, 2017 16:12:13 GMT 1
But club teams engage so much more with fans and you feel part of the club. Though i will always want England to win it is not the end of the world for me if they don't, i don't really have any emotional attachment to them. Yes the negatives are massively exaggerated with England, if they started acting more of a club team ( applauding the fans, giving shirts to young kids, signing autographs etc) then fans may be more inclined to give a shit. The Liverpool game summed it up, as one poster pointed out. After the game the Liverpool players were quick to jump in their cars, no interest in talking to the fans who were waiting outside for an autograph. The Town players stopped, signed shirts, programmes, had photos taken. They give a shit. Billy Big Bollocks doesn't. We do have a good young crop coming through, hopefully i may live to see England lift a trophy. And sometimes it's the complete opposite. I know it was seven years ago and I should probably let it go, but I can't forget the way Rooney mouthed off at supporters - who'd travelled all the way to South Africa, for crying out loud - after that performance against Algeria. In fact, I think a lot of the apathy I feel towards them these days could probably be traced back to that game. 6000 miles, a few grand spent, 0-0 against a side ranked below Israel, just to get mouthed off by a scouse Shrek.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 17, 2017 16:18:35 GMT 1
Here we go - opinions on the world cup becomes a matter of liberals versus the world. Need to up your meds, Marcus. Sorry, I'll try to stop posting facts in response to a poster announcing his lack of patriotism for his own country. Where is there a fact in what you posted ? You keep confusing your opinion with actual facts
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 17, 2017 16:21:15 GMT 1
As an Aussie, I'd love for Australia to be in the same group as the poms. I'd love it too, it's about our only chance of an easy 3 points before we come back home 🦁🦁🦁
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Post by WaterlooTerrier on Nov 17, 2017 16:25:29 GMT 1
Is that the Harry Kane clap?...only kidding Waterloo. Don't get me started on people clapping Harry Kane
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 17, 2017 16:26:12 GMT 1
We have. Think in a few finals over the past 40 years weve been unlucky not to do a lot better. Even win it on 2 or 3 occasions. But certainly the last few have been bitterly disappointing. Think any chance we do have is very reliant on Kane. Other nations have shown in the past that if you have one really standout striker, he can carry an average side a long way. And IMO Kane could be good enough to do that. But if hes not on it, or not fit, even getting out of the group will be a decent achievement for this group. Think it will be different in the next few finals after this one though. We do seem to have a pretty good crop of youngsters coming through. So maybe theres some light at the end of the tunnel? I just wish the nation would support the national side more like they do their club sides. "It is what it is, but its my team so I support them".. rather than this fashionable " we're crap so im not interested anymore" attitude. With their club, fans tend to exaggerate the positives. With England its the negatives that get exaggerated. Well no doubting the success we have seen this summer with the youth squads has been very encouraging. We really need this youngsters to start playing for their respective first teams though. But from what I've heard these guys sound like they are good enough for that to happen. I also think a stint abroad for some of our international players could help also. I do admit there are times I've not got fully behind the International team. Maybe its because I'm having to support the same team as Leeds fans or something which I find so distasteful. He shouldn't have done that. But there was a lad completely frustrated with his own performance, with the teams performance and knowing he was about to have a world of grief sent his way. 'Walk a mile in another man's shoes' as the saying goes... its very hard to know how you'd react in the same situation. Players not signing autographs at times is not a modern thing. But i would imagine the current players do as much , if not more, for charities etc than they ever have done. There is a definite disconnect between fans and players these days. Its easy to blame the players for that, but when you live in a world where everything you say and everything you do will be photographed and written about on social media or in the press, then its no surprise really that a divide exists. Players of yesteryear didn't have to contend with that. They could live much more 'normal' lives without the constant scrutiny and criticism.
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jasonhand
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Post by jasonhand on Nov 17, 2017 16:31:11 GMT 1
Well no doubting the success we have seen this summer with the youth squads has been very encouraging. We really need this youngsters to start playing for their respective first teams though. But from what I've heard these guys sound like they are good enough for that to happen. I also think a stint abroad for some of our international players could help also. I do admit there are times I've not got fully behind the International team. Maybe its because I'm having to support the same team as Leeds fans or something which I find so distasteful. He shouldn't have done that. But there was a lad completely frustrated with his own performance, with the teams performance and knowing he was about to have a world of grief sent his way. 'Walk a mile in another man's shoes' as the saying goes... its very hard to know how you'd react in the same situation. Players not signing autographs at times is not a modern thing. But i would imagine the current players do as much , if not more, for charities etc than they ever have done. There is a definite disconnect between fans and players these days. Its easy to blame the players for that, but when you live in a world where everything you say and everything you do will be photographed and written about on social media or in the press, then its no surprise really that a divide exists. Players of yesteryear didn't have to contend with that. They could live much more 'normal' lives without the constant scrutiny and criticism. Think Slapps replied to me in error with his last comment But I was going to say pretty much what he said about the whole Rooney thing. He was clearly totally and utterly pissed off with a poor performance by himself and by his team and he was letting off steam. I'm pretty sure we have all taken things out on the wrong person when we are pissed off. My Mrs does it to me all the time
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 16:49:09 GMT 1
Where is there a fact in what you posted ? You keep confusing your opinion with actual facts Hey, that's fine. If you've got the bare faced cheek to pretend this isn't true in modern Britain, where we celebrate St paddy's day more than our own patron saint day for fear of offending someone. Hating your own country is kind of trendy amongst those hand wringing Liberal types! Patriotism is frowned upon. In fact, displaying an England flag in England, is akin to full on Nazi party membership.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 17, 2017 16:52:43 GMT 1
Where is there a fact in what you posted ? You keep confusing your opinion with actual facts Hey, that's fine. If you've got the bare faced cheek to pretend this isn't true in modern Britain, where we celebrate St paddy's day more than our own patron saint day for fear of offending someone. Hating your own country is kind of trendy amongst those hand wringing Liberal types! Patriotism is frowned upon. In fact, displaying an England flag in England, is akin to full on Nazi party membership. Again, it's your opinion not an actual fact though. That's the point I was making.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 17:04:16 GMT 1
Hey, that's fine. If you've got the bare faced cheek to pretend this isn't true in modern Britain, where we celebrate St paddy's day more than our own patron saint day for fear of offending someone. Again, it's your opinion not an actual fact though. That's the point I was making. In your opinion. I can produce countless news stories of people being told to take down the St Georges flag, for fear of being offensive to others. I suppose you think these only exist in my head too? www.express.co.uk/news/uk/45503/Police-told-man-to-hide-racist-St-George-flagPlenty more in the tank if you want?
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Post by philincalifornia on Nov 17, 2017 17:24:57 GMT 1
I don't know why my fanatical support of England has degenerated to not even knowing they were playing Brazil, while waking up to watch Australia beat Honduras at 3 am t'other night. I just don't know. I've never even really thought about quantifying it, even reading threads like this. The useless Woy not resigning in the wake of his shambolic performance and then the appointment of a manager who is acknowledged among Boro fans to have been a shit manager at Boro probably helps. So, I'm with Mooy over England too. The useless elitist shits who aren't held accountable for the shite that has been the England team at major tournaments are f-kin lucky they don't report to Dean Hoyle.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 17, 2017 17:28:47 GMT 1
He shouldn't have done that. But there was a lad completely frustrated with his own performance, with the teams performance and knowing he was about to have a world of grief sent his way. 'Walk a mile in another man's shoes' as the saying goes... its very hard to know how you'd react in the same situation. Players not signing autographs at times is not a modern thing. But i would imagine the current players do as much , if not more, for charities etc than they ever have done. There is a definite disconnect between fans and players these days. Its easy to blame the players for that, but when you live in a world where everything you say and everything you do will be photographed and written about on social media or in the press, then its no surprise really that a divide exists. Players of yesteryear didn't have to contend with that. They could live much more 'normal' lives without the constant scrutiny and criticism. Think Slapps replied to me in error with his last comment But I was going to say pretty much what he said about the whole Rooney thing. He was clearly totally and utterly pissed off with a poor performance by himself and by his team and he was letting off steam. I'm pretty sure we have all taken things out on the wrong person when we are pissed off. My Mrs does it to me all the time Yeah sorry. replied to wrong post. To illustrate my point further... Im sure ive mentioned this on here before in similar discussions, but there was an old journo on talksport a few years ago and he mentioned how hed been away with Spurs on a European trip back in the late 60s/early 70s. The journalists travelled with and stayed in the same hotel as the team in those days, and one night a lot of the players smuggled some girls ( possibly professional girls) into the hotel and were basically passing them around all night. This was a Sun journalist and he never even reported it! Just had the attitude of what happens on tour, stays on tour. He knew the players and didn;t want to cause them any grief with the wife when they got home. Can you imagine that now!?? Wouldn't be back page, it would be front page for DAYS. They'd all be ruined. It would be a social media meltdown. Now they never live it down if theyre photographed parking in a disabled bay for 5 minutes ( and if they did, it would be all over the internet before they got back in the car!) . So when people talk about 'the modern player' and how detached they are compared to players in the good old days, it's a totally unfair comparison to make IMO.
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Post by detox on Nov 17, 2017 17:39:21 GMT 1
can we draw Poland, Iran and Australia ?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 17, 2017 17:44:29 GMT 1
can we draw Poland, Iran and Australia ? Think so, not 100% sure. No team from the same confederation can be drawn together (in the same group) apart from UEFA teams (max 2 per group). England also cannot get Spain due to seeding.
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Post by ozterrier on Nov 17, 2017 18:13:32 GMT 1
can we draw Poland, Iran and Australia ? Think so, not 100% sure. No team from the same confederation can be drawn together (in the same group) apart from UEFA teams (max 2 per group). England also cannot get Spain due to seeding. No, because Australia can't draw Iran
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 17, 2017 18:16:31 GMT 1
Think so, not 100% sure. No team from the same confederation can be drawn together (in the same group) apart from UEFA teams (max 2 per group). England also cannot get Spain due to seeding. No, because Australia can't draw Iran Of course. To be honest i would much prefer Iran, would rather dodge the Aussies.
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Post by ozterrier on Nov 17, 2017 18:21:35 GMT 1
No, because Australia can't draw Iran Of course. To be honest i would much prefer Iran, would rather dodge the Aussies. I can understand that - imagine the national outage and recriminations if you lost to the Aussies at a World Cup (not saying you would, but it wouldn't be out of the question). Where as losing to Iran would just be on par with any number of other tournament implosions. Losing to the Aussies at football could legitimately damage the national psyche for decades!
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 17, 2017 18:27:08 GMT 1
Of course. To be honest i would much prefer Iran, would rather dodge the Aussies. I can understand that - imagine the national outage and recriminations if you lost to the Aussies at a World Cup (not saying you would, but it wouldn't be out of the question). Where as losing to Iran would just be on par with any number of other tournament implosions. Losing to the Aussies at football could legitimately damage the national psyche for decades! Losing to Iran would just be another Iceland. Not my opinion but i am sure some people's - losing to Aussies would be on a par with the first 10 seconds in San Marino 1993, but the first 10 seconds lasting 90 minutes.
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Nov 17, 2017 19:15:10 GMT 1
England comes first, Town second. It always has and always will. I was born English and became a Town fan when I was 5. I love my country, I love the national team? Does Englands lack of quality in tournaments annoy me? Yes, but it's still my country just like town is my club.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 17, 2017 19:18:18 GMT 1
can we draw Poland, Iran and Australia ? Yes we can.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 17, 2017 19:18:58 GMT 1
can we draw Poland, Iran and Australia ? Yes we can. Actually no Australia are classed as Asia in football.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 17, 2017 19:19:55 GMT 1
Wouldn't mind drawing Iceland would be nice to have another crack at them.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Nov 17, 2017 19:50:24 GMT 1
The draw for Russia will happen in 2 weeks, but all the qualification is done now - and here are the pots: Pot A: Russia, Germany, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina, Belgium, Poland, France Pot B: Spain, Switzerland, England, Colombia, Mexico, Uruguay, Croatia, Peru Pot C: Iceland, Costa Rica, Sweden, Tunisia, Egypt, Senegal, Iran, Denmark Pot D: Nigeria, Australia, Japan, Morocco, Panama, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Serbia Some funny ones in there. Not sure why Spain are only in Pot B - and how a European team (Serbia) managed to fall to Pot D! So who does everyone want then? Why worry about it. Maybe we would be better off in a tough group for a change. I'm looking forward to how we get on in Russia. Think Southgate has gone the right way in favouring youth and hope he sticks with it. Like the new formation as well with Stones and McGuire playing it out from the back and pushing up into and through midfield. Sure McGuire might get turned by any attacker in the competition but the better forwards are capable of doing that to most centre halves anyway. We have as good a chance as progressing as most in pots 1-3 and teams often develop during the competitions. England were given not much chance in 66!
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Nov 17, 2017 19:55:32 GMT 1
I don't know why my fanatical support of England has degenerated to not even knowing they were playing Brazil, while waking up to watch Australia beat Honduras at 3 am t'other night. I just don't know. I've never even really thought about quantifying it, even reading threads like this. The useless Woy not resigning in the wake of his shambolic performance and then the appointment of a manager who is acknowledged among Boro fans to have been a shit manager at Boro probably helps. So, I'm with Mooy over England too. The useless elitist shits who aren't held accountable for the shite that has been the England team at major tournaments are f-kin lucky they don't report to Dean Hoyle. Don't forget it took even DH a few managers and £40 million to get it right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 20:17:16 GMT 1
I am not all that bothered about England myself. I would love them to win something, and will support them, but realistically they probably won’t get further than the last 8 or maybe last 16.
There’s always a chance once you get to the knock out stages but after so many disappointments it’s hard to be all that enthusiastic about them.
It’s frustrating because we make qualifying look easy but then struggle at the finals.
Don’t think the Premier League has helped myself but that’s another debate
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Post by philincalifornia on Nov 17, 2017 21:36:35 GMT 1
The draw for Russia will happen in 2 weeks, but all the qualification is done now - and here are the pots: Pot A: Russia, Germany, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina, Belgium, Poland, France Pot B: Spain, Switzerland, England, Colombia, Mexico, Uruguay, Croatia, Peru Pot C: Iceland, Costa Rica, Sweden, Tunisia, Egypt, Senegal, Iran, Denmark Pot D: Nigeria, Australia, Japan, Morocco, Panama, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Serbia Some funny ones in there. Not sure why Spain are only in Pot B - and how a European team (Serbia) managed to fall to Pot D! So who does everyone want then? Why worry about it. Maybe we would be better off in a tough group for a change. I'm looking forward to how we get on in Russia. Think Southgate has gone the right way in favouring youth and hope he sticks with it. Like the new formation as well with Stones and McGuire playing it out from the back and pushing up into and through midfield. Sure McGuire might get turned by any attacker in the competition but the better forwards are capable of doing that to most centre halves anyway. We have as good a chance as progressing as most in pots 1-3 and teams often develop during the competitions. England were given not much chance in 66! Italy, Uruguay and group winners Costa Rica. last time ??
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Post by Big Ern on Nov 17, 2017 21:43:09 GMT 1
I actually prefer England now to what I did say 5-10 years ago. Expectations are becoming realigned and our place on the world stage is now more obvious. We are a half decent team, no more no less.
We have a young hungry squad and masses of talent in the younger age groups. We have qualified comfortably and we are keeping world heavyweights at bay with very inexperienced players.
If you don't like England now then you never will. Things are definitely on the up.
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Post by Big Ern on Nov 17, 2017 21:56:07 GMT 1
I don't know why my fanatical support of England has degenerated to not even knowing they were playing Brazil, while waking up to watch Australia beat Honduras at 3 am t'other night. I just don't know. I've never even really thought about quantifying it, even reading threads like this. The useless Woy not resigning in the wake of his shambolic performance and then the appointment of a manager who is acknowledged among Boro fans to have been a shit manager at Boro probably helps. So, I'm with Mooy over England too. The useless elitist shits who aren't held accountable for the shite that has been the England team at major tournaments are f-kin lucky they don't report to Dean Hoyle. Are you English? If so you are not allowed to support anybody else. It's a shit rule but unfortunately it's true. You were born in this country so you must suffer the consequences. You can't support Australia or anyone else for whatever reason. If you do it's treason and punishable by death.
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Post by philincalifornia on Nov 17, 2017 22:05:24 GMT 1
I don't know why my fanatical support of England has degenerated to not even knowing they were playing Brazil, while waking up to watch Australia beat Honduras at 3 am t'other night. I just don't know. I've never even really thought about quantifying it, even reading threads like this. The useless Woy not resigning in the wake of his shambolic performance and then the appointment of a manager who is acknowledged among Boro fans to have been a shit manager at Boro probably helps. So, I'm with Mooy over England too. The useless elitist shits who aren't held accountable for the shite that has been the England team at major tournaments are f-kin lucky they don't report to Dean Hoyle. Are you English? If so you are not allowed to support anybody else. It's a shit rule but unfortunately it's true. You were born in this country so you must suffer the consequences. You can't support Australia or anyone else for whatever reason. If you do it's treason and punishable by death. Ha ha yes, you are of course totally correct and, despite my current apathy, when it starts I'll be digging out my England underpants and socks and getting down the pub at whatever time and cheering on the lads. I will though, save some energy for Aaron, and our lads on the bench for Denmark and hopefully Belgium. Still pissed off that Danny Williams won't be there.
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Post by Big Ern on Nov 17, 2017 22:06:51 GMT 1
Are you English? If so you are not allowed to support anybody else. It's a shit rule but unfortunately it's true. You were born in this country so you must suffer the consequences. You can't support Australia or anyone else for whatever reason. If you do it's treason and punishable by death. Ha ha yes, you are of course totally correct and, despite my current apathy, when it starts I'll be digging out my England underpants and socks and getting down the pub at whatever time and cheering on the lads. I will though, save some energy for Aaron, and our lads on the bench for Denmark and hopefully Belgium. Still pissed off that Danny Williams won't be there. That's the spirit! I wonder if there is a chance Schindler could be there?
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