|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Dec 31, 2017 1:04:01 GMT 1
What's the secret of Burnley's success? My two penneths worth is that they don't really play with wide men like VLP and Big Col, who want to stretch the game out wide. They have in effect four central midfielders and five if you count the bloke in the hole. That allows them to smother teams, but not have too many attacking options. Their success is based on stopping the opposition from playing - a sound tactic, and they are obviously very good at it. In terms of attacking quality they don't pass teams off the pitch - they don't really pass it at all! - but they get it forward very, very quickly and play from there. They are obviously very fit and organised, and you need to play well to get through their defence. With that sort of solid base, strength from set pieces, and one or two good players they are a threat to anyone. They are beatable, but a team (even one of the top six) has to play very well to beat them. If their opposition is slightly off it, they will struggle. I don't think there's any secret to Dyche's tactics - but his team are obviously extremely fit and well drilled. Its not pretty on the eye, but its obviously effective, and levels the playing field when they play teams with better individual players. A bit like us, their team is better than the individual players that make it up. They have a different way of playing than we do, but the basis is the same - teamwork and hardwork. Good luck to Burnley - its good to see one the so-called smaller teams doing well - but I'd much rather watch a Wagner team than a Dyche team. Far, far too many longs balls for me. But each to their own I suppose. I agree with that although I would doubt they are fitter or more organised than us. Dyche certainly makes the team worth more than the sum of its parts - as does DW. What interests me most is that the main difference in playing styles is that they sacrifice width to achieve control and smothering the opposition. That's probably why Arfield was never really appreciated at Town - he's not a wide player. He's a central midfielder who can sit out wide and be effective in other ways. We looked very tired towards the end. Hope we can pick it up v Leicester where we have a chance of some points if we can field a fresh team.
|
|
deadleg
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,897
|
Post by deadleg on Dec 31, 2017 1:20:45 GMT 1
I actually thought that was where Arfield was the most appreciated here, when he was tried out wide to let Hunt overlap and either cover for him or go infield and let Hunt run into that space.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 31, 2017 1:21:06 GMT 1
Dyche thinks thay was a natural fall. It was the weirdest natural fall I've ever seen then. Penalty yes, but by God he is such a self-rightous tosser. Going on about diving again after seeing Barnes all afternoon is hilarious. Barnes plays the percentages..if he isnt getting the ball he goes over..if you get a free kick its a bonus, he will never get booked for falling over.. If you mark him and you still make a challenge knowing he isnt getting the ball anyway, who is the stupid one?? refs fall for it, centre halves with any nouse should not.. it was a natural fall, he slips and is going into lossl whatever...they come together.. dead ball, no booking, no pen.. ref was very close, easy call for him, apparently..
|
|
|
Post by Giggity on Dec 31, 2017 2:22:51 GMT 1
Few observations from today:
- Mooy was poor for the second game in a row. Badly need Billing back who I would have played alongside Mooy today (rather than replace) as Hogg shit himself every time he was pressed. - Malone was all over the place. Constantly drifting from position and showed very little going forward. Possibly Wagner's worst signing after Paurevic. - Flo would probably still be driving the ball down the wing towards the Panasonic stand with the wind behind his back if he was still playing now - Ince was very poor. Not a No.10 and needs playing in his normal position as he is depreciating in value - Burnley looked decent. Town could learn a lot off Barnes in leaning into opposition players/sticking your arse out when under pressure then falling over and winning a free kick when contact is made. Good experienced performance from him.
|
|
|
Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 31, 2017 2:26:49 GMT 1
Just back after few beers,..... First half we were shocking, no midfield at all, rode out luck. Much better second half, overall a fair result. We'd of been very angry not getting that penny. Agree the midfield was missing in that first half. Mooy was getting marked hard and our passing was not accurate enough in weight or direction. We also spent too much time trying for the specie pass and the ball was sailing long. If we were sharp in in our passing we could have caused them problems but they pressed hard and we lost possession too easily. We held onto a point today.
|
|
|
Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 31, 2017 2:31:08 GMT 1
Dyce is referees ear all the game - constantly berating 4th official - never in his techinal area - whinges more than Moriinio - football would certainly be a better place without him Thing about that is you do yourself a disservice so that the refs eventually tune out and give you nothing. Probably why they didn’t get the pen...life’s a bitch.
|
|
|
Post by Beech's Nuts on Dec 31, 2017 3:46:49 GMT 1
Dyce is referees ear all the game - constantly berating 4th official - never in his techinal area - whinges more than Moriinio - football would certainly be a better place without him Thing about that is you do yourself a disservice so that the refs eventually tune out and give you nothing. Probably why they didn’t get the pen...life’s a bitch. Rarely, if ever, is Tierney tuned in.
|
|
|
Post by morleyterrier on Dec 31, 2017 6:26:33 GMT 1
Dyche thinks thay was a natural fall. It was the weirdest natural fall I've ever seen then. Penalty yes, but by God he is such a self-rightous tosser. Going on about diving again after seeing Barnes all afternoon is hilarious. Dyche has been listening too much to the hype that has been surrounding him and how Burnley have done this season. He used to be likeable when he was humble. Cannot stand him now he has become all Billy big bollocks with his sarcy interviews thinking he is being funny, the big man with the interviewer when really Sean, everybody watching just thinks you are being a twat.
|
|
|
Post by sapphireblue on Dec 31, 2017 10:19:13 GMT 1
Just because it was a pen doesn't mean that we would have lost. They put the other two chances they had in the first half, from about 12 yards, wide.
|
|
|
Post by detox on Dec 31, 2017 11:04:43 GMT 1
Dyche conveniently glosses over the Arfield tackle on Smith, where he went through in a really nasty tackle that left Smith limping. He also glossed over Gudmundssun making an absolute meal of Zanka's tackle on him, ensuring he rolled around long enough for the ref to book Zanka then got up and trotted off.. then there was the guy who totally wiped out Quanar with a mid air tackle into the stomach...no yellow for that but Quanar had to go off a few minutes after. It's ok moaning about the pen, but there was a certain amount of gamesmanship in the Burnley style...they were in the refs ear all game, a nudge here, and elbow there..feigning fouls....I wasn't very impressed by them at all and I used to have a bit of respect for them before.
What Dyche needs to do is come down from the bloody cloud of self importance he is now on and realise that what you sow you tend to reap...playing the way they do, on the edge..and sometimes beyond has it's payback in other ways, it's called Karma...which is probably why they didn't get the penalty.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 11:20:43 GMT 1
Dyche conveniently glosses over the Arfield tackle on Smith, where he went through in a really nasty tackle that left Smith limping. He also glossed over Gudmundssun making an absolute meal of Zanka's tackle on him, ensuring he rolled around long enough for the ref to book Zanka then got up and trotted off.. then there was the guy who totally wiped out Quanar with a mid air tackle into the stomach...no yellow for that but Quanar had to go off a few minutes after. It's ok moaning about the pen, but there was a certain amount of gamesmanship in the Burnley style...they were in the refs ear all game, a nudge here, and elbow there..feigning fouls....I wasn't very impressed by them at all and I used to have a bit of respect for them before. What Dyche needs to do is come down from the bloody cloud of self importance he is now on and realise that what you sow you tend to reap...playing the way they do, on the edge..and sometimes beyond has it's payback in other ways, it's called Karma...which is probably why they didn't get the penalty. Dyche spent most of the game rabbiting to the 4th official.
|
|
|
Post by Headless Chicken on Dec 31, 2017 11:30:56 GMT 1
Dyche conveniently glosses over the Arfield tackle on Smith, where he went through in a really nasty tackle that left Smith limping. He also glossed over Gudmundssun making an absolute meal of Zanka's tackle on him, ensuring he rolled around long enough for the ref to book Zanka then got up and trotted off.. then there was the guy who totally wiped out Quanar with a mid air tackle into the stomach...no yellow for that but Quanar had to go off a few minutes after. It's ok moaning about the pen, but there was a certain amount of gamesmanship in the Burnley style...they were in the refs ear all game, a nudge here, and elbow there..feigning fouls....I wasn't very impressed by them at all and I used to have a bit of respect for them before. What Dyche needs to do is come down from the bloody cloud of self importance he is now on and realise that what you sow you tend to reap...playing the way they do, on the edge..and sometimes beyond has it's payback in other ways, it's called Karma...which is probably why they didn't get the penalty. Dyche spent most of the game rabbiting to the 4th official. He's clearly doing a fantastic job, but that was probably the most persistent demonstration of whinging and moaning by a manager I have ever seen. It was non stop, with gesticulating at virtually anything with even a 5% element of doubt. As already touched on, he is definitely coming across very self important, following the adulation he's received, which is a terrible combination with an angry ginger 😂
|
|
|
Post by ACW on Dec 31, 2017 12:10:56 GMT 1
Dyche conveniently glosses over the Arfield tackle on Smith, where he went through in a really nasty tackle that left Smith limping. He also glossed over Gudmundssun making an absolute meal of Zanka's tackle on him, ensuring he rolled around long enough for the ref to book Zanka then got up and trotted off.. then there was the guy who totally wiped out Quanar with a mid air tackle into the stomach...no yellow for that but Quanar had to go off a few minutes after. It's ok moaning about the pen, but there was a certain amount of gamesmanship in the Burnley style...they were in the refs ear all game, a nudge here, and elbow there..feigning fouls....I wasn't very impressed by them at all and I used to have a bit of respect for them before. What Dyche needs to do is come down from the bloody cloud of self importance he is now on and realise that what you sow you tend to reap...playing the way they do, on the edge..and sometimes beyond has it's payback in other ways, it's called Karma...which is probably why they didn't get the penalty. Burnley was also very good at taking out Town players when they knew they had no chance of winning the ball. Happened quite a few times. Never so badly mistimed that they would get a card, but made sure the Town player ended up on the floor and stopped play.
|
|
|
Post by detox on Dec 31, 2017 12:18:07 GMT 1
Don't suppose anyone saw what the away crowd was yesterday, apparently Burnley sold out the away end but I didn't hear how many that was and the capacity varies it seems, as does the stadium capacity too as constant changes are made. It was 24,500,then 24,332, then 24,169..so it seems we might not have sold out our home tickets yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by dumbo on Dec 31, 2017 12:31:57 GMT 1
Don't suppose anyone saw what the away crowd was yesterday, apparently Burnley sold out the away end but I didn't hear how many that was and the capacity varies it seems, as does the stadium capacity too as constant changes are made. It was 24,500,then 24,332, then 24,169..so it seems we might not have sold out our home tickets yesterday. I don't understand the attendance figures. I thought the home end is 90% sold out to season tickets. The other 10% is behind the goal and is sold out every game (West Ham and Liverpool are sold out already) if the away end is sold out like yesterday it should be 24,500. Where are 400 seats going unsold?
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Dec 31, 2017 12:41:20 GMT 1
From where I sit, it seems that even when we're sold out, there are always lots of empty seats (and it always seems to be the same ones) in the north end of both the Kilner bank and the riverside lower.
|
|
|
Post by pjr43 on Dec 31, 2017 12:46:17 GMT 1
In terms of seats we can actually fill on match day, my understanding is we lose between 350-400 from a combination of the narrow gap between home and away fans in the South Stand and the new TV gantry at the back of the Kilner Bank (I guess those seats are permanently gone?), leaving a new maximum of 24169.
Of course, the published attendance is based on tickets sold, so why it varies for matches that are advertised as sold out, I'm not sure.
|
|
|
Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Dec 31, 2017 12:49:50 GMT 1
There always seems to be empty seats mainly in the upper tier of the Panasonic.
|
|
|
Post by kennyk2 on Dec 31, 2017 12:55:26 GMT 1
Just read the thread and interesting views as always. My question is, what would people rather have?
1. Play really well and lose, or 2. produce a below par performance and come away with a point. I'm pragmatic during these heady days... the latter for me.
|
|
|
Post by detox on Dec 31, 2017 13:00:36 GMT 1
24,169 is the latest figure I have for capacity..after they increased the disabled area in the away end..We had 24,169 v Chelsea (2,292 away), but the games against Stoke (24,047) and Burnley (24,075) when the away end was sold out suggest we haven't sold our home end. I really don't understand the gate numbers at all that the club issue.
|
|
|
Post by hartyhtfc on Dec 31, 2017 13:13:02 GMT 1
From where I sit, it seems that even when we're sold out, there are always lots of empty seats (and it always seems to be the same ones) in the north end of both the Kilner bank and the riverside lower. Those seats at the north end of the Riverside Lower are for Premier League sponsors; the club has to provide them for every game, and it is up to the sponsors to fill them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 13:15:57 GMT 1
Why did Hendrick leave his leg hanging in a completely unnatural position?
I wouldn't say it was a dive but the contact came because he left his leg there trying to buy it.
|
|
|
Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 31, 2017 14:50:57 GMT 1
24,169 is the latest figure I have for capacity..after they increased the disabled area in the away end..We had 24,169 v Chelsea (2,292 away), but the games against Stoke (24,047) and Burnley (24,075) when the away end was sold out suggest we haven't sold our home end. I really don't understand the gate numbers at all that the club issue. It was 24,169 but capacity was then reduced to 24,121 about the time they played WBA. They took out 48 seats in the away end to ease problems caused by fans standing and obscuring the view for disabled fans.
|
|
|
Post by griffa on Dec 31, 2017 15:04:04 GMT 1
We struggle against teams, not allowing us to play, our own game! Teams playing 5 in midfield, such as Burnley, Chelsea, Liverpool, they overwhelm us & clog up the middle of the park! Are we too predictable i.e. we caught Watford out, as they didn't expect us to play, with a changed formation. Could we have predicted Burnley swamping midfield, we really had no answer 1st half, 2nd half was better. Although I cannot stand Mark Hughes, he was smart enough against Town, to change Stoke's formation, by comparison, we tend not to change formation, but will change personnel. Not sure why David subbed Flo, his 1st half performance, was no worse than many others! Dyche's team were very well dilled etc, very dangerous 1st half, as DW stated, we were not at our best, a good point in the end, onwards & upwards - UTT.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 31, 2017 15:09:32 GMT 1
Just read the thread and interesting views as always. My question is, what would people rather have? 1. Play really well and lose, or 2. produce a below par performance and come away with a point. I'm pragmatic during these heady days... the latter for me. you missed out play well and get a point? or is there no point in striving or wanting to put in better performances when you can count on the other team missing a few very good chances and you scrape a point? its not a forward thinking tactical decision that will work enough.... option 3. Is to play better more consistently. if we take mucky draws at home and dont get better the results will go against us.. neither stoke or burnley were there for the taking but both performances from town were 'must do better'...
|
|
|
Post by gledholt terrier on Dec 31, 2017 15:12:14 GMT 1
We struggle against teams, not allowing us to play, our own game! Teams playing 5 in midfield, such as Burnley, Chelsea, Liverpool, they overwhelm us & clog up the middle of the park! Are we too predictable i.e. we caught Watford out, as they didn't expect us to play, with a changed formation. Could we have predicted Burnley swamping midfield, we really had no answer 1st half, 2nd half was better. Although I cannot stand Mark Hughes, he was smart enough against Town, to change Stoke's formation, by comparison, we tend not to change formation, but will change personnel. Not sure why David subbed Flo, his 1st half performance, was no worse than many others! Dyche's team were very well dilled etc, very dangerous 1st half, as DW stated, we were not at our best, a good point in the end, onwards & upwards - UTT. Hadergjonaj suffered a knock late in first half - not sure if that was the reason for substitution though
|
|
|
Post by space hardware on Dec 31, 2017 23:54:39 GMT 1
Why did Hendrick leave his leg hanging in a completely unnatural position? I wouldn't say it was a dive but the contact came because he left his leg there trying to buy it. Thought it was a dive at the time and nothing I saw on MOTD makes me think otherwise. Contact doesn't necessarily equal penalty.
|
|
k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by k1man999 on Jan 1, 2018 0:08:55 GMT 1
Why did Hendrick leave his leg hanging in a completely unnatural position? I wouldn't say it was a dive but the contact came because he left his leg there trying to buy it. Thought it was a dive at the time and nothing I saw on MOTD makes me think otherwise. Contact doesn't necessarily equal penalty. This There is contact all over the pitch but free kicks are not given so why is it different in the box. This oh there was contact bollox does my head in it's a contact sport grown men should not be going down like they have been shot when someone brushes them. Also they should still be in control of the ball or it's trajectory lots of pens given balls going out or gone out but contact made after should not be a pen in my eyes.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jan 1, 2018 0:21:34 GMT 1
Hey guys , Interesting to see your views on the Clarets, from should beat us - pre game, realisation mid game and just after that we are a good side to then recent comments that Dyche whinges and we are long ball. Just to add a balanced view... In my honest opinion ( and it is only my opinion) we are a good side , u like to press, we press harder, we both like to break fast but we are slightly quicker due to being direct when necessary . This is no slant on town I love what u stand for as a club , v similar to us . I do think however being labelled long ball is unfair , 20+ passes to score against Everton highlights that if we have chance to play we will. Dyche May have been frustrated with some of the decisions today and shown it , but a point each is just that. I hope it helps you stop up and us (the target is still 40) . The premier league doesn’t like us as clubs , well fk them us and yourselves are here to stay . See u next yr guys . My prematch opinion came as a view of you in your home game against us. Based on Saturday's game I can see why you're so high in the table because you can perform well when the onus is on the opposition to attack and make the running in a game but I did feel our game at yours was probably the easiest point gained on our travels this season (we lost the next 5 away games without scoring including a loss at Swansea) as when the onus is on you to make all the running and positivity in a game is where you seem to struggle which could explain the unusual disparity in your home and away results. As good as you looked at ours, I felt you were equally as poor in the reverse fixture in September.
|
|
|
Post by space hardware on Jan 1, 2018 0:23:59 GMT 1
Thought it was a dive at the time and nothing I saw on MOTD makes me think otherwise. Contact doesn't necessarily equal penalty. This There is contact all over the pitch but free kicks are not given so why is it different in the box. This oh there was contact bollox does my head in it's a contact sport grown men should not be going down like they have been shot when someone brushes them. Also they should still be in control of the ball or it's trajectory lots of pens given balls going out or gone out but contact made after should not be a pen in my eyes. The ball was going dead and he dangled his leg out to make sure Lössl touched it. No pen.
|
|