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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 14, 2018 0:12:56 GMT 1
We seem so weak at defending counter attacks. Teams seem to cut through us with ease. That's what is very disappointing. We should be organised for counter attacks - we have had quite a lot of practice.
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Jan 14, 2018 0:13:14 GMT 1
Surely the most concerning thing today is that we were outwitted by a coaching team with Stuart Pearce in its ranks. Don't get the joke - what's so funny about Stuart Pearce in this connection? (Sorry been living in Germany too long, so last thing I remember about him really was the pen he scored against Spain in '96)
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Post by yappledapple on Jan 14, 2018 0:13:26 GMT 1
Was the 3rd goal offside haven't caught the replay Nowhere near - Tommy Smith played him on by a good yard, although the Kilner Bank faithful sat in front of me wanted to lynch the linesman at the time and felt he was a bit of a cheating bar steward.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 14, 2018 0:14:57 GMT 1
Eriksson, Mane, de bruyne Hazard Willian.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 14, 2018 0:16:33 GMT 1
Surely the most concerning thing today is that we were outwitted by a coaching team with Stuart Pearce in its ranks. Don't get the joke - what's so funny about Stuart Pearce in this connection? (Sorry been living in Germany too long, so last thing I remember about him really was the pen he scored against Spain in '96) Great bloke but his managerial record in England has been woeful . I reckon he’s probably a really good number two though
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Jan 14, 2018 0:20:52 GMT 1
Oh, right - any particular reason why his record is woeful (famous relegations, monumentally famous bad decisions)?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 0:25:24 GMT 1
Don't get the joke - what's so funny about Stuart Pearce in this connection? (Sorry been living in Germany too long, so last thing I remember about him really was the pen he scored against Spain in '96) Great bloke but his managerial record in England has been woeful . I reckon he’s probably a really good number two though A good number two....toilet humour?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 0:27:54 GMT 1
Oh, right - any particular reason why his record is woeful (famous relegations, monumentally famous bad decisions)? He presided over a Man City side that had one of the longest runs without scoring a goal in Premier League history. To combat this he decided to put David James up front in the second half of a game because he’s a big lad! Your comment seems to have been designed for me because the David James story is my favourite footballing anecdote to tell ever!
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Post by pixie on Jan 14, 2018 0:31:27 GMT 1
What a typical lazy response. If you've something interesting to say, why don't you let us all in on it? As far as 9/11 is concerned what you actually know would probably fit on the back of a postage stamp so I wouldn't pursue that subject if I were you. Haha! I've said plenty on today's game,Mr Tinfoil Hat, if you looked into it. I've no interest in anything you say on any subject. If you've no interest then why did you respond? Were you attempting in your own childish way to get one over on me? I imagine you're the sort of naive person who doesn't believe a story unless it's been plastered all over the media first. Next time I post some interesting information in "Off Topic" I hope you show your disinterest in the usual manner i.e. by not responding. Some hope though!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 0:32:02 GMT 1
Apologies if it’s been mentioned before, I haven’t had chance to read through the entire thread. But, on reflection, I’m not sure today’s defeat can be attributed to players having an off day.
I think it’s something to do with out tactics. There’s no middle ground in our play. If we concede, more often than not, we go gung ho. Full backs in the penalty box, just the two centre backs guarding the halfway line.
There’s no calm build up. Today at 2-1 we shouldn’t have panicked. We should have remained calm, been diligent at the back and probed at West Ham. The last 15 minutes is when we should have gone gung ho, ensuring we were still in the game up until that point.
Just off the top of my head it reminds me of Bournemouth and Birmingham Away last season. We went far too gung ho and got picked off with devastating ease
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 0:34:18 GMT 1
We are just a bit ponderous in possession. Sadly, when we take time to build from the back, our dangermen drop into the space behind the opposition’s press. This means Ince, Mooy and VLP often take the ball off the toes of our defenders - 50 yards from where they are most effective. I don’t mind the defence keeping the ball, working it side to side to open space, but when we move forward we need to move it quick. Pick our time and go. We seemed wracked with indecision today and never got on the front foot. Fair play to West Ham though. A great team effort and we couldn’t touch Lanzini and Arnautovic. Yes, we don't want to be seeing Ince or RVLP taking the ball from the centre backs in our half. Lanzini and Arnautovic were the best two players on the pitch today, by some distance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 0:37:02 GMT 1
By the way, this thread is optimum DATM. Wagner’s not actually a good manager and then comments about bloody 9/11. Oh and nick talking about alien autopsies. That’s why I love this site
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Jan 14, 2018 0:37:30 GMT 1
Oh, right - any particular reason why his record is woeful (famous relegations, monumentally famous bad decisions)? He presided over a Man City side that had one of the longest runs without scoring a goal in Premier League history. To combat this he decided to put David James up front in the second half of a game because he’s a big lad! Your comment seems to have been designed for me because the David James story is my favourite footballing anecdote to tell ever! Ha! Nice one - so this one incident has spoiled his reputation for ever? Typical. Nice bloke, but one mistake and it's never forgotten!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 0:42:42 GMT 1
He presided over a Man City side that had one of the longest runs without scoring a goal in Premier League history. To combat this he decided to put David James up front in the second half of a game because he’s a big lad! Your comment seems to have been designed for me because the David James story is my favourite footballing anecdote to tell ever! Ha! Nice one - so this one incident has spoiled his reputation for ever? Typical. Nice bloke, but one mistake and it's not forgotten! F**king Boulevard press! Haha, unfortunately it’s not just that. He’s had repeated managerial failures. Failures that become quite understandable when you hear him talking about football. Talksport employed him for a while and he spoke like Alan Partridge on his early sports desk stuff
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Post by King Curtis on Jan 14, 2018 0:46:50 GMT 1
Passing - Woeful Ball retention - Woeful Giving the ball away in dangerous areas - Excellent Substitutions (timings) - terrible Honestly, why start Lolley? It's only to put him in the shop window, so he scored a goal, but fuck me! Pritchard should be starting, never mind putting him on the bench. Football is a simple game, he doesn't need to watch for 65 minutes, he's match fit for Gods sake. Start him. Why wait until 65 minutes to make a substitution?!?! 4-1 down! No point at this stage. Gifted 2 goals and looked terrible. It's going to be a long remainder of the season unless things change. Embarrassing today. Poor all-round. I don't blame those fans that left before the 80th minute at all. Ball retention in the first half was the best we've witnessed in weeks, are you blind? He started Lolley because Pritchard only joined yesterday, Sabiri doesn't look ready for this level, and we have nobody else. Pritchard looked interesting..looked to get involved but I think hes going to find the physical step a big struggle. Kongolo looked like he'd never seen a football before. Hopefully that was related to coming on late into a lost game...definitely wouldn't expect him to dislodge Zanka or Schindler any time soon. Rubbish. Ball retention and sloppy passing was the reason we were never in the game!!
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 0:49:43 GMT 1
Eriksson, Mane, de bruyne Eriksen was poor. Thought he was every bit as good as Kane on the day
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 0:50:01 GMT 1
Couple of things which I noticed; • mooy would pass then move next to the person he had passed to, cutting down their options and space. • mooy Would ignore Pritchard in space then carry the ball near to him (congesting the area) then play it to him. • Pritchards set pieces were ten times better than others we have had • Malone was running into the box at every opportunity leaving us vulnerable at the back • there seems to be a belief that we can only turn into an attack if we are camped on the edge of their area, rather than look to cut through them. Malone often charges forward forgetting the big hole he is leaving behind him. Yup, he has poor positional sense.
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 0:54:21 GMT 1
Really? His control looked very messy to me. Played like a defender from a league where when the defenders get the ball the other team back off and leave them to it. Looks like he needs a few more weeks before he'll oust Lowe and Malone...but I do like that we've finally got a left sided full back who isn't a midget. He's a centreback Malone isn't a midget
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 0:56:25 GMT 1
I don't think today was half as bad as some are making out. Sometimes, there are days when you have to take it on the chin. They had a bit more quality than us and they look a good, fit, well-drilled, and well coached side. I though their front two and Noble were very good and I thought that Obiang was exceptional in the second half. I cannot see them going down. We had a few out-of-sorts performances but I think they have been covered extensively in this and other threads so there is no need for me to go over old ground. Pritchard looks very promising and he brought Depoitre into the game. He has a lovely first touch, he is very neat and tidy and he looks to get us on the front foot; he will be a key asset in the run-in. I thought the goal immediately after half time killed us. We switched off and forgot the basics and, just like against Man City, we paid a very heavy price. We looked shell-shocked after that and West Ham sensed it and capitalised. Small margins and all that! Next week is another big game and if we perform and take a point or all three, we will be able to put this doom and gloom behind us. The business end of the season is upon us, let's look forward positively. Cheers, UTT. We had chances and were our own worst enemy. Lossl/Lolley error. Smith not clearing, Schindler being outmuscled. Several corners/free kicks just crying out for someone to nod in. Thd goal after about 12 seconds in the second half knocked the stuffing out of us.
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Post by Grizz on Jan 14, 2018 1:02:37 GMT 1
Agree with what some others are saying on here, fullbacks are poor. Smith looks a shadow of his championship self. Obviously hes playing against much better players but he looks dire. Malone is just as poor. Flo and Lowe for me, If not Lowe then try Kongolo at LB
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 14, 2018 1:11:41 GMT 1
And here's me thinking you just talked shite about 9/11. What a typical lazy response. If you've something interesting to say, why don't you let us all in on it? As far as 9/11 is concerned what you actually know would probably fit on the back of a postage stamp so I wouldn't pursue that subject if I were you. Yeah it was nuclear bombs what did it! No planes involved at all- they were superimposed on peoples minds.. and cameras. And besides theyre made out of aluminium so would only crumple against the side of the building and fall off. Whats the security like at your place? Do they know you have access to a computer?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 1:30:53 GMT 1
Really? His control looked very messy to me. Played like a defender from a league where when the defenders get the ball the other team back off and leave them to it. Looks like he needs a few more weeks before he'll oust Lowe and Malone...but I do like that we've finally got a left sided full back who isn't a midget. He's a centreback Malone isn't a midget Malone is a midget, look at him, you could blow him over if you ran past quick enough..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 1:32:35 GMT 1
Ball retention in the first half was the best we've witnessed in weeks, are you blind? He started Lolley because Pritchard only joined yesterday, Sabiri doesn't look ready for this level, and we have nobody else. Pritchard looked interesting..looked to get involved but I think hes going to find the physical step a big struggle. Kongolo looked like he'd never seen a football before. Hopefully that was related to coming on late into a lost game...definitely wouldn't expect him to dislodge Zanka or Schindler any time soon. Rubbish. Ball retention and sloppy passing was the reason we were never in the game!! Maybe you use a different definition of the word retention, but we had 65% of the possession today, bet the first half was closer to 70%. Retention was NOT the problem.
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Post by upthetown on Jan 14, 2018 2:33:26 GMT 1
I've had doubts since last season that Wagner is really as good as the reputation he has built for himself. His first two games against Wednesday and Boro were impressive despite the losses. However it might have just been "new manager syndrome". Didn't we actually finish the season lower than when he took over? He then gave himself loads of sycophantic publicity as a result of the Swedish trip. He comes across as a personable chap and on the surface appears to be a good man manager. My doubts are that he not up to the job tactically. Even when things are not going well he seems reluctant to change tactics. As someone else mentioned, playing out from the back is all well and good, but when it's done as slow as we play, we rarely pose the opposition any problems. In fact we quite often give ourselves problems when we lose the ball while still in our own half or even our own third of the pitch. The point is our players are not quick enough of feet or thought to be able to play like this. Until we get such players we should simply play to our strengths. If that means getting the ball into the opposition half as quickly as possible then so be it. It does not mean we will lose the ball every time, especially if we can gegenpress. Notice today when they got that 2nd goal. A quick forward ball and bingo. If we had been kicking off instead there would probably have been a back pass to Lossl somewhere along the line. There is a reason we don't score enough goals and it's not just because we're in the EPL because it was the same last season. Why not have a man beyond the back post when we have a corner? How many times does the ball clear everybody and run away to touch? Bolton scored last week when they had an unmarked player beyond the back post. As someone else said, "it's not rocket science". If we don't try something different it's even money we'll be relegated. After all I think we were jammy to be promoted in the first place, but now we're here let's pull out all the stops to stay here. And here's me thinking you just talked shite about 9/11. 24/7, not 9/11!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 8:45:34 GMT 1
Apologies if it’s been mentioned before, I haven’t had chance to read through the entire thread. But, on reflection, I’m not sure today’s defeat can be attributed to players having an off day. I think it’s something to do with out tactics. There’s no middle ground in our play. If we concede, more often than not, we go gung ho. Full backs in the penalty box, just the two centre backs guarding the halfway line. There’s no calm build up. Today at 2-1 we shouldn’t have panicked. We should have remained calm, been diligent at the back and probed at West Ham. The last 15 minutes is when we should have gone gung ho, ensuring we were still in the game up until that point. Just off the top of my head it reminds me of Bournemouth and Birmingham Away last season. We went far too gung ho and got picked off with devastating ease Our gung ho somehow ends up with us having no men in the opposition box and no defenders at the other end. I'm not actually sure where everyone goes, it's like they all just huddle together in the centre of the pitch and a single ball takes them all out of the game leaving it in the hands of Zanka and Schindler to sort it out (or not as often has been the case)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 9:01:22 GMT 1
i hope wagner looks at the replay of this game, and finally goes 3-5-2.
4-2-3-1 is just not working in the premier league imo. we leave massive gaps between midfield and our lone striker. it's almost like we're playing 6-3-1 with the three sitting deep in our own half.......at home. tiki taki football is great when you are playing the likes of rotherham and l..ds, but against seasoned premier league sides it just does not work as well. the press is great when it works but when it fails we are totally exposed as yesterday.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 14, 2018 9:27:31 GMT 1
Shocking, awful, taken apart, worse than Chelsea game IMO, against an average team, Time to go 3 at the back, it's an alien autopsy.
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Post by shawsie on Jan 14, 2018 9:49:49 GMT 1
We were poor yesterday and the result grim.....but c'mon some of you appear to want to rip up what got us here entirely and start with new formations and players who won't know each other in the toughest top flight in Europe!!! If we'd not made mistakes galore then I might say it needs considering- but 7 or 8 were poor yesterday. Not average - poor and it's now the managers job to get those lads to perform better next week. He's done it before and will do again....im sure behind the scenes there will be a few home truths being told......and we move on. Our problem against some of the sides around us is that most have 1 or 2 who can win a game with a moment of magic more often than we can. The likes of arnautovic...shakiri....knockaert..........redmond....austin...fraser....ritchie.....etc. That's why it's vital our lads perform as a team and when we have a few well below their best we struggle. On the positive side kongolo...pritchard...billing...lowe......quaner should be back in training this week to bolster competition for a big game on sat.
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Post by morleyterrier on Jan 14, 2018 10:05:02 GMT 1
We were poor yesterday and the result grim.....but c'mon some of you appear to want to rip up what got us here entirely and start with new formations and players who won't know each other in the toughest top flight in Europe!!! If we'd not made mistakes galore then I might say it needs considering- but 7 or 8 were poor yesterday. Not average - poor and it's now the managers job to get those lads to perform better next week. He's done it before and will do again....im sure behind the scenes there will be a few home truths being told......and we move on. Our problem against some of the sides around us is that most have 1 or 2 who can win a game with a moment of magic more often than we can. The likes of arnautovic...shakiri....knockaert..........redmond....austin...fraser....ritchie.....etc. That's why it's vital our lads perform as a team and when we have a few well below their best we struggle. On the positive side kongolo...pritchard...billing...lowe......quaner should be back in training this week to bolster competition for a big game on sat. Shawsie, I am still seething at the whole Pritchard thing. We were all buzzing about this signing and I am sure the Lad was (was!). So what better time to introduce him to the first Team than when he was on a high and play him from the start yesterday. Or atleast at half-time when it was 1-1. Little word in his ear, "there you go Alex, now go win us the match Son". He would have run on that pitch bursting with confidence and belief. He may or may not have made a difference to the outcome although I strongly suspect had he started (or come on at half-time), he would have had a big impact and also lifted the Players round him (and crowd). The shambles that unfolded would not have happened. We will never know now. But oh no, what did we do?, bring a quality new signing on that is on a high when 4-1 down. Being brought on for your debut when it was a lost cause and the Players around him had long since realised that. We may as well have kicked him in the knackers as he was walking on to the pitch. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 14, 2018 10:10:25 GMT 1
Really? His control looked very messy to me. Played like a defender from a league where when the defenders get the ball the other team back off and leave them to it. Looks like he needs a few more weeks before he'll oust Lowe and Malone...but I do like that we've finally got a left sided full back who isn't a midget. Yeah, Malone's a right short arse 😕
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