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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 16, 2018 22:25:57 GMT 1
Cant be, Lossl never passes to them on the dead-ball line. Think you are misinterpreting it. They do that on an opportunity basis. If the opportunity isn't there they jog up the field and revert to the lob up the field. It's just that Lossl has created problems in being overly brave and taking it on when the lob up the field was the right option imho. man city have the players to do this..they even have the players to do it when the opposition press really high and for a long time, simply because only a few teams can do it and if they lose a game they will win the next 4/5 using exactly the same tactics.. we were not pressed at all till 30 odd minutes the other day and we immediately dropped a bollock.. the almost criminal waste of home game time before that then became embarrasing as well as fucking boring.. you would have to point out the exact times this playing from the back has 'produced' anything directly?? our best posession periods that i can recall were late in games where we were winning by a goal and we certainly did not try fucking about with it in our own half, all the ball holding took place well up the pitch.. we are surely the dullest team in the division the more of the ball we have?
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 16, 2018 22:32:59 GMT 1
Yeah yeah, im sure all that stacks up.
Listen, you're clearly a sandwich short of a picnic, but i do want you to know I enjoy your posts immensely. So do people at work for that matter. All the 9/11 stuff was comedy gold. Had them laughing out loud. They took some convincing that you weren't just on a wind up though. The cancer stuff- not your best work. Hard to find humour in the subject so id stay away from it in future. But i thought you were back to your mentally disturbed best with the Adolf Hitler's gardening business in Barcelona stuff. Keep em coming loony tunes!! So you agree that what I have said is logical, but then go on to say I am a sandwich short of a picnic! Make your mind up, I can't be both. What's more surprising is that 2 others agree with you. Rational thinking seems beyond so many these days. By the way I have never said that Hitler had a gardening business. That word came out of what passes for your brain. Since you seem to enjoy most of my anecdotes, I think I may post a few more in Off Topic shortly. Stay tuned. Can't wait! If we all contact your carers and ask, do you think they'll allow you more time on the computer?
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 16, 2018 23:22:36 GMT 1
Think you are misinterpreting it. They do that on an opportunity basis. If the opportunity isn't there they jog up the field and revert to the lob up the field. It's just that Lossl has created problems in being overly brave and taking it on when the lob up the field was the right option imho. man city have the players to do this..they even have the players to do it when the opposition press really high and for a long time, simply because only a few teams can do it and if they lose a game they will win the next 4/5 using exactly the same tactics.. we were not pressed at all till 30 odd minutes the other day and we immediately dropped a bollock.. the almost criminal waste of home game time before that then became embarrasing as well as fucking boring.. you would have to point out the exact times this playing from the back has 'produced' anything directly?? our best posession periods that i can recall were late in games where we were winning by a goal and we certainly did not try fucking about with it in our own half, all the ball holding took place well up the pitch.. we are surely the dullest team in the division the more of the ball we have? Memories are short. We were quite good at it last season and it led to some great progressive play which started with possession from the back, and Man City were very poor with it last season! I think we have been poor at it this season, and at times last season, because, we haven't had a decent 10 like Brown or Palmer to link up play.. What is your alternative plan for retaining possession from dead balls etc? Just lob it up to the big lad up front? Let's see if Pritchard can make a difference and get us back to where we were.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 16, 2018 23:36:05 GMT 1
Playing out from the back does not work especially now every manager in the premier league has got Wagner's forward play worked out The lone striker system does not work mainly because as we do not have the quality up front to make that kind of system work What town do need are better quality players who can compete with the half decent at this standard " especially in defence ". It will be very interesting against Stoke to see what Wagner has learnt from the West Ham mauling ,and just as interesting to see if the new signings make a difference. Every single town defender is vulnerable against every decent striker in this division , and that needs addressing Not only do I have to read this Jack and Jill level assessment, I then I have to see it being applauded.
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Post by space hardware on Jan 16, 2018 23:39:37 GMT 1
Not only do I have to read this Jack and Jill level assessment, I then I have to see it being applauded. 😂
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 17, 2018 10:29:34 GMT 1
man city have the players to do this..they even have the players to do it when the opposition press really high and for a long time, simply because only a few teams can do it and if they lose a game they will win the next 4/5 using exactly the same tactics.. we were not pressed at all till 30 odd minutes the other day and we immediately dropped a bollock.. the almost criminal waste of home game time before that then became embarrasing as well as fucking boring.. you would have to point out the exact times this playing from the back has 'produced' anything directly?? our best posession periods that i can recall were late in games where we were winning by a goal and we certainly did not try fucking about with it in our own half, all the ball holding took place well up the pitch.. we are surely the dullest team in the division the more of the ball we have? Memories are short. We were quite good at it last season and it led to some great progressive play which started with possession from the back, and Man City were very poor with it last season! I think we have been poor at it this season, and at times last season, because, we haven't had a decent 10 like Brown or Palmer to link up play.. What is your alternative plan for retaining possession from dead balls etc? Just lob it up to the big lad up front? Let's see if Pritchard can make a difference and get us back to where we were. the alternative plan is merely to do what we do..do it quicker and play the percentage ball more often to at least turn the opposition and begin the next stage of the game further up the pitch. The mistakes we make this season were the times when the crowd made odd noises last year when a player under pressure, put the ball forward.. it upsets the purists or the easily perturbed but it means you didnt get caught with it in spitting distance of your own goal.. the idea of a flat line of midfielders is bad.. we have no depth defending or attacking.. it happens so many times in games and is allowed to last for too long.. we have little or no forward support either from or to the full backs as and when they get forward.. we cease at times to support the bloke with the ball and recently have ceased supporting the player going to the opposition player with the ball, every 50/50 that breaks away is not collected by us.. we are a working team with just about enough individual skill to carry it off if we are 'at it'.. we would have been better on saturday to have put the ball into west hams half at every given opportunity and follow it up, let west ham try to play out.. We are pretty dire having the ball and the opposition just stand and look at us going nowhere slowly..Like I said the 'purists' would hate it..
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 17, 2018 12:13:57 GMT 1
Don't think it's anything to do with purists! Its DW 's chosen method of retaining possession. Pep does it as well. I agree we have been doing it badly and need to be less brave and wang it up the field as the situation demands. Didn't hear many complaining about it last season. If you don't think we did that last season go and look at the possession stats. Most of the reason for our high possession stats were from playing it out from the back. It was arguably more important lass season as we didn't have a big lad up front.
I don't think I'm a purist but I would have hated the defence lobbing it up to Depoitre at every opportunity last weekend. Got to be better than that especially when they have a big defender in Collins for whom that is meat and drink.
I agree we seem to have lost the way in midfield but hope Pritchard helps fix that rather than reverting to kick and rush.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 17, 2018 12:26:33 GMT 1
I think you’re being a bit rude to Wagner .. but I’m all ears Watch the highlights or full match again then try and work out with your " football knowledge " Moye's successful game plan especially for the goals Start with Lossl trying to play out from the back with the pass to Lolley , and see if you can spot the three Hammers players waiting close by to pounce and actually mug Lolley for the Noble goal. You are right there were 3 players on Lolley. Doesn't that mean that two Town players were unmarked somewhere? People seem to think we have been "found out". That is an extremely naive view. Of course opposing managers know how we play as they did last season. We know how other teams play. There are few tactical secrets in the Championship/Premiership. We got pancaked by West Ham because we made a daft individual mistake in the first half and then gave Anautovich and Lanzini too much space in the second half in our desperation to get a second equaliser - system failure. One area where we can improve drastically is waking up as soon as we step on the grass. We look very vulnerable at restarts of play and concede too many as a result. DW off the pitch and the captain on the pitch need to drum that in to them. It's not acceptable.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 17, 2018 12:40:40 GMT 1
Don't think it's anything to do with purists! Its DW 's chosen method of retaining possession. Pep does it as well. I agree we have been doing it badly and need to be less brave and wang it up the field as the situation demands. Didn't hear many complaining about it last season. If you don't think we did that last season go and look at the possession stats. Most of the reason for our high possession stats were from playing it out from the back. It was arguably more important lass season as we didn't have a big lad up front. I don't think I'm a purist but I would have hated the defence lobbing it up to Depoitre at every opportunity last weekend. Got to be better than that especially when they have a big defender in Collins for whom that is meat and drink. I agree we seem to have lost the way in midfield but hope Pritchard helps fix that rather than reverting to kick and rush. I hate us pissing about with it for an age before punting it.. we still have nobody up supporting the big lad, thats why it fails to look anything other than a waste of a ball. But it does mean we didnt lose it close to our goal? If you dont have the players in this league then over playing does bite you in the arse, it often bites much better teams with players who like getting the ball under pressure.. we need to play the percentage ball more often in the knowledge and tactical plan that one or two are getting forward sharpish to support it.. the goals we concede are very rarely down to not having enough striped shirts in the area.. leave another player up the pitch, make the opposition worry, like we did on saturday.. give your centre forward a chance and keep him interested, a big clearance becomes a long 'pass' when he or his partner get to it first.. dont mind winning ugly, watched us a few times lose this season without even reaching 'ugly', it was nothing..
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 17, 2018 13:04:04 GMT 1
Don't think it's anything to do with purists! Its DW 's chosen method of retaining possession. Pep does it as well. I agree we have been doing it badly and need to be less brave and wang it up the field as the situation demands. Didn't hear many complaining about it last season. If you don't think we did that last season go and look at the possession stats. Most of the reason for our high possession stats were from playing it out from the back. It was arguably more important lass season as we didn't have a big lad up front. I don't think I'm a purist but I would have hated the defence lobbing it up to Depoitre at every opportunity last weekend. Got to be better than that especially when they have a big defender in Collins for whom that is meat and drink. I agree we seem to have lost the way in midfield but hope Pritchard helps fix that rather than reverting to kick and rush. I hate us pissing about with it for an age before punting it.. we still have nobody up supporting the big lad, thats why it fails to look anything other than a waste of a ball. But it does mean we didnt lose it close to our goal? If you dont have the players in this league then over playing does bite you in the arse, it often bites much better teams with players who like getting the ball under pressure.. we need to play the percentage ball more often in the knowledge and tactical plan that one or two are getting forward sharpish to support it.. the goals we concede are very rarely down to not having enough striped shirts in the area.. leave another player up the pitch, make the opposition worry, like we did on saturday.. give your centre forward a chance and keep him interested, a big clearance becomes a long 'pass' when he or his partner get to it first.. dont mind winning ugly, watched us a few times lose this season without even reaching 'ugly', it was nothing.. I see a long pass forward as a beautiful thing - like Lossl's set up of the goal v Man U, or Heff's great long ball on the diagonal on to VLP's head to set up Loewe's goal against Fulham. To use giving the ball away by knocking it up to the big lad as your main tactic for getting the ball upfield - not for me. I guess DW's summary would be that playing ugly rarely works (certainly wouldn't have got us in to the Premiership last season) and I think I want to continue to agree with him. We have just got to the right thing smarter - even though DW tells them to be brave on the ball! When DW is guiding someone to the European Cup final in a few years (hopefully us) I think he will still be playing 4-2-3-1 and playing it out from the back.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 13:56:57 GMT 1
Not only do I have to read this Jack and Jill level assessment, I then I have to see it being applauded. Funniest thing on here for a while
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 17, 2018 14:22:36 GMT 1
I hate us pissing about with it for an age before punting it.. we still have nobody up supporting the big lad, thats why it fails to look anything other than a waste of a ball. But it does mean we didnt lose it close to our goal? If you dont have the players in this league then over playing does bite you in the arse, it often bites much better teams with players who like getting the ball under pressure.. we need to play the percentage ball more often in the knowledge and tactical plan that one or two are getting forward sharpish to support it.. the goals we concede are very rarely down to not having enough striped shirts in the area.. leave another player up the pitch, make the opposition worry, like we did on saturday.. give your centre forward a chance and keep him interested, a big clearance becomes a long 'pass' when he or his partner get to it first.. dont mind winning ugly, watched us a few times lose this season without even reaching 'ugly', it was nothing.. I see a long pass forward as a beautiful thing - like Lossl's set up of the goal v Man U, or Heff's great long ball on the diagonal on to VLP's head to set up Loewe's goal against Fulham. To use giving the ball away by knocking it up to the big lad as your main tactic for getting the ball upfield - not for me. I guess DW's summary would be that playing ugly rarely works (certainly wouldn't have got us in to the Premiership last season) and I think I want to continue to agree with him. We have just got to the right thing smarter - even though DW tells them to be brave on the ball! When DW is guiding someone to the European Cup final in a few years (hopefully us) I think he will still be playing 4-2-3-1 and playing it out from the back. its quite likely we are going to be in or around the relegation battle. results not plaudits for trying to stick with a method that is not working will count. We were very ugly at times last season, very dull and often had little or no intent to take games on. Its a different competition this year.. when DW is guiding a much better team with more skill, pace and confidence in it, he will do as well as the other managers who are given that leg up. He might even do better than some but its not here. We need the stability of more than a season here to start looking to play the way he would ideally like. The 'long ball/punt' isnt and never was muted by me as the 'main tactic', its used in various forms/situations and lengths by all the teams I have seen us play this year.. We have under used it to either attack or to just relieve pressure and turn the other team, thats all I said..
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Post by htafctaunton on Jan 18, 2018 2:18:03 GMT 1
man city have the players to do this..they even have the players to do it when the opposition press really high and for a long time, simply because only a few teams can do it and if they lose a game they will win the next 4/5 using exactly the same tactics.. we were not pressed at all till 30 odd minutes the other day and we immediately dropped a bollock.. the almost criminal waste of home game time before that then became embarrasing as well as fucking boring.. you would have to point out the exact times this playing from the back has 'produced' anything directly?? our best posession periods that i can recall were late in games where we were winning by a goal and we certainly did not try fucking about with it in our own half, all the ball holding took place well up the pitch.. we are surely the dullest team in the division the more of the ball we have? Memories are short. We were quite good at it last season and it led to some great progressive play which started with possession from the back, and Man City were very poor with it last season! I think we have been poor at it this season, and at times last season, because, we haven't had a decent 10 like Brown or Palmer to link up play.. What is your alternative plan for retaining possession from dead balls etc? Just lob it up to the big lad up front? Let's see if Pritchard can make a difference and get us back to where we were. ...play it short OCCASIONALLY, but only when the opportunity's there. If the opposition close us down, by leaving men forward, which subsequently means leaving gaps upfield, then that's the time for us to go long. (We should be trying to vary our tactics throughout the game, like OCCASIONALLY leaving men upfield when we defend corners...if only to disrupt the oppo's gameplan)
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 18, 2018 14:27:57 GMT 1
Memories are short. We were quite good at it last season and it led to some great progressive play which started with possession from the back, and Man City were very poor with it last season! I think we have been poor at it this season, and at times last season, because, we haven't had a decent 10 like Brown or Palmer to link up play.. What is your alternative plan for retaining possession from dead balls etc? Just lob it up to the big lad up front? Let's see if Pritchard can make a difference and get us back to where we were. ...play it short OCCASIONALLY, but only when the opportunity's there. If the opposition close us down, by leaving men forward, which subsequently means leaving gaps upfield, then that's the time for us to go long. (We should be trying to vary our tactics throughout the game, like OCCASIONALLY leaving men upfield when we defend corners...if only to disrupt the oppo's gameplan) I'd sort of say the opposite. Play it short as often as possible to try to retain possession, but cut out the unnecessary risks. It is the basis of DW's system to gain possession this way and be brave on the ball - we have just been too brave! Obviously chose a different way when the risks are too high. All the alternative ways lead to less retention of the ball.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 19, 2018 0:49:07 GMT 1
I didn't go last Saturday. However, I've bit the bullet and watched the first half on httv. Town were superior to West Ham in virtually every way. We passed the ball pretty well for the most part. West Ham didn't string two passes together in the first half and barely troubled the defence apart from the ricket about the Lossl's clearance. There was a good mix of Lossl playing it short, midway and right up to Lolo.
Mooy didn't have the best of halves but when we had the ball he was clearly pushed further up the field than usual. Not surprisingly he didn't get much ball.
It was interesting watching Lolley's goal. I don't think West Ham touched the ball in the 10 minutes before it. Steady build up resulted in a fine goal as an end product.
Think there were 3 corners, one by Ince and 2 by Mooy and all well delivered. The first one Schindler won the ball brilliantly and flicked it on. It landed well but there were no Town players in the right and sensible place. It was bit strange because the ball went exactly where you would plan for it to go, but no Town players were on it.
One thing it did illustrate is how tough it is going to be for Pritchard to jump in to this system. Ince did a huge amount of work tracking back and defending.
It wasn't the most exciting first half as Galpharm points out but West Ham contributed nothing and we were well competitive with them. I was quite surprised having read the doom and gloom reports.
Not looking forward to the second half tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 21:48:38 GMT 1
I didn't go last Saturday. However, I've bit the bullet and watched the first half on httv. Town were superior to West Ham in virtually every way. We passed the ball pretty well for the most part. West Ham didn't string two passes together in the first half and barely troubled the defence apart from the ricket about the Lossl's clearance. There was a good mix of Lossl playing it short, midway and right up to Lolo. Mooy didn't have the best of halves but when we had the ball he was clearly pushed further up the field than usual. Not surprisingly he didn't get much ball. It was interesting watching Lolley's goal. I don't think West Ham touched the ball in the 10 minutes before it. Steady build up resulted in a fine goal as an end product. Think there were 3 corners, one by Ince and 2 by Mooy and all well delivered. The first one Schindler won the ball brilliantly and flicked it on. It landed well but there were no Town players in the right and sensible place. It was bit strange because the ball went exactly where you would plan for it to go, but no Town players were on it. One thing it did illustrate is how tough it is going to be for Pritchard to jump in to this system. Ince did a huge amount of work tracking back and defending. It wasn't the most exciting first half as Galpharm points out but West Ham contributed nothing and we were well competitive with them. I was quite surprised having read the doom and gloom reports. Not looking forward to the second half tomorrow. Despite all the negativity on here, that's pretty much how I see it. Their first goal was a gift, and Schindler was fouled (held back) for another (their third I think). It was actually a game of fine margins. We were too open at the back, West Ham soaked up our pressure ... and had a bit of luck on the break.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 19, 2018 22:17:04 GMT 1
Wow ... from my seat in the stands I thought it was an abysmal first half . On the half hour I was willing it to be half time so we could regroup
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 20, 2018 0:10:00 GMT 1
Wow ... from my seat in the stands I thought it was an abysmal first half . On the half hour I was willing it to be half time so we could regroup Well it wasn't great but we were far superior to West Ham who didn't string any any passes together. If you read the thread you would be left with the impression that Moyes was a master tactician whereas in the first half Town totally controlled the tactics. As I said, shame we couldn't take advantage and do more round their box.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 20, 2018 0:12:46 GMT 1
I thought West Ham completely dominated .. part of me wants to view it all again ... but only a small part of me
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Post by wildbillthetownfan on Jan 20, 2018 0:17:02 GMT 1
The problem last week against West Ham was the second half, too many Town players just didn't show up. In the first half i thought were were getting on top, just a pity we couldn't get a second goal before half time, because when West Ham scored so early in the second half it was game over.
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