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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2018 11:20:02 GMT 1
Personally I think Mounie is excellent . Although currently I reckon Depoitre is better , Mounie has more potential . He will play for better teams than us in his career I reckon
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Post by El Mel on Apr 8, 2018 11:32:05 GMT 1
Personally I think Mounie is excellent . Although currently I reckon Depoitre is better , Mounie has more potential . He will play for better teams than us in his career I reckon I think they're both good players, and would flourish with better support players, and more attacking intent around them.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 8, 2018 11:42:59 GMT 1
Keep criticising Quaner all you like but the simple fact is that he has directly contributed far more to us maybe staying up than Ince has No, he hasn’t. Hahaha give it a rest you utter clown
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Post by dm on Apr 8, 2018 12:26:29 GMT 1
If we stay up, we need a BIG overhaul of the squad to avoid the difficulties of this season.
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Post by greyarea on Apr 8, 2018 12:55:03 GMT 1
If we stay up, we need a BIG overhaul of the squad to avoid the difficulties of this season. Of course. I see similarities to us and Bolton under Sam Allardyce, not in the style of play but in development as a club. This first season in the premier league has only one goal of staying up and it doesn't matter how that is achieved. Improve the squad over the summer and look to progress again. I am very happy we have Dean Hoyle rather than Phil Gartside in over all control. We will not make the mistake that Bolton has and over leverage the club. If we did go down then we will be a stronger club compared to before this season and hopefully will try to do our own version of the Burnley story. If Wagner were to leave I can see Mark Hudson stepping up. He is getting a great grounding running the U23's.
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 12:56:26 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Apr 8, 2018 12:56:26 GMT 1
Ince's problem is that he is very 1 dimensional. Every time he gets the ball he looks to cut inside onto his left. That's fine in the championship because even though they know it's coming, the defenders aren't good enough to stop him. In the Prem he plays against far better full backs.
There was 1 attack yesterday which summed this up. He was going down the flank with flo outside him, and one of the Brighton players was running alongside him on his left. With the cut back not an option he ran out of ideas, kept running straight into a defender and lost the ball.
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 12:59:39 GMT 1
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 8, 2018 12:59:39 GMT 1
He just isn't that good is he?
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Post by dm on Apr 8, 2018 13:08:39 GMT 1
We get very little from our wingers (in an attacking sense). Not just Ince... all of them. We win the ball back and pretty much have to just piss around with it in the middle, pass it backwards or just boot it long.
I feel sorry for Mounie and Depoitre. Gary Birtles was talking about Town needing to replace the strikers due to lack of goals. The strikers really aren't the problem though.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 8, 2018 13:26:57 GMT 1
I remember when Ince signed - I thought we were getting a player that had the ability, but not the work ethic. I got it the wrong way round.
If we stay up, he's still good enough as cover/competition in case of injury, suspension or poor form but, if we're going to compete at this level and get the best out of Mounie/Depoitre, then the "3" in the 4-2-3-1 formation needs improvement. Pritchard looks good, Sabiri may come good eventually but ain't there yet, RVLP divides opinion but wants to leave so discussion on him is probably moot. The rest are in that category of players who can shine in the Championship without being good enough to shine when starting regularly in the PL.
Nonetheless - Ince is our player - he's giving it everything he's got and for that reason he'll get my backing all day long. And besides - he's shown season after season that he's a standout player in the Championship. More than good enough to be part of a promotion chasing side in that division should we finish in the bottom 3 this time.
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 14:35:31 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 14:35:31 GMT 1
Keep criticising Quaner all you like but the simple fact is that he has directly contributed far more to us maybe staying up than Ince has No, he hasn’t. I don’t rate either of them at this level unfortunately but Quaner at least gives the opposition something to think about when he drops his shoulder and runs directly with the ball. I just don’t see what Ince brings other than being a hard worker. He isn’t quick enough, he scuffs almost all his shots, he thinks half a second too slow and he doesn’t move enough. Not bad at corners though.
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Post by ranter73 on Apr 8, 2018 14:48:18 GMT 1
I don't understand the comments about Ince's confidence.
Like most people I thought he would be a great signing and despite doing very little in my view nobody is on his back and he has been given the vote of confidence on numerous occasions by playing the number of games he has.
However, despite arguably working hard he offers very little attacking threat whichever position he plays, his crosses are minimal and his shooting / free kicks are poor.
I'd like nothing more than him to come good in the last 5 games but he needs to attach the full backs rather than going sideways / backwards.
I'd rather he lost the ball giving it a go rather than simply being a non threatening attacker - he's got 5 more games to prove himself otherwise him and many others of the team won't ever play in this division again.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 8, 2018 14:56:46 GMT 1
If we stay up, we need a BIG overhaul of the squad to avoid the difficulties of this season. Do we need an overhaul or do two new wide players already make a huge difference to this team, getting more out of what we already have? All depends on whether Schindler goes, if we have any chance of keeping Kongolo, etc. Too many variables to contemplate.
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Post by dm on Apr 8, 2018 15:04:50 GMT 1
If we stay up, we need a BIG overhaul of the squad to avoid the difficulties of this season. Do we need an overhaul or do two new wide players already make a huge difference to this team, getting more out of what we already have? All depends on whether Schindler goes, if we have any chance of keeping Kongolo, etc. Too many variables to contemplate. Never thought about it like that really. Overhaul was probably slightly strong. The wingers definitely need an overhaul, then there are obviously other areas of the squad that need addressing. I'd love us to sign Kongolo but I think he'll be elsewhere next season. We've got to keep Schindler if possible.
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 15:23:17 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 8, 2018 15:23:17 GMT 1
And we thought Danny G was joking in pre season when he kept comparing him to Jon Newby #mysticmeg 😁
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 8, 2018 15:34:32 GMT 1
I accepted that Schindler was leaving the moment the final whistle blew in the cup game against Man Utd. Schindler is too good to be playing for a struggling side in the PL (and certainly too good for the Championship) - so whichever division we're in Schindler's career would probably be best served with a move upwards - either to a side that'll be competing in Europe or one that has a decent chance of doing so. He's probably got another 5 years at his peak - he needs that to be at a higher profile club if he's going to have a chance to represent his country. As a minimum, he's going to want to try himself out in European competition so somebody that qualifies for the Europa league would be a good move for him.
I'm not wishing him away, far from it. In his position though I'd be surprised if there weren't bigger clubs out there who wanted his services, and I'd be almost as surprised if he wasn't tempted to test himself at a higher level. Good news is - we'd get a huge amount of money for him, that could be used to strengthen the squad elsewhere.
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Post by ACW on Apr 8, 2018 15:36:14 GMT 1
Keep criticising Quaner all you like but the simple fact is that he has directly contributed far more to us maybe staying up than Ince has No, he hasn’t. You are wrong. The stats show Quaner has been directly involved in more goals this season than Ince. No one can argue with that surely? Or can they?
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 15:45:40 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on Apr 8, 2018 15:45:40 GMT 1
You are wrong. The stats show Quaner has been directly involved in more goals this season than Ince. No one can argue with that surely? Or can they? He'll have a go
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 8, 2018 15:47:23 GMT 1
Fact ! Ince never tears anyone apart. Collin is much better and creates more.
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Post by ruggedivy on Apr 8, 2018 16:17:00 GMT 1
I think we would have a claim against Derby under the consumer rights act. Guys been a basket case all season.
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Post by htfctx on Apr 8, 2018 16:25:01 GMT 1
If we stay up, we need a BIG overhaul of the squad to avoid the difficulties of this season. Do we need an overhaul or do two new wide players already make a huge difference to this team, getting more out of what we already have? All depends on whether Schindler goes, if we have any chance of keeping Kongolo, etc. Too many variables to contemplate. The key to this league, is managing the wage bill. The money from TV is not about transfers, it's about getting decent value at a reasonable wage. Our turnover in players is simply that, do not break the bank with "tv money inflated wages" for gash players.
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Thwarting Dog
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Post by Thwarting Dog on Apr 8, 2018 16:37:21 GMT 1
Ince. It is likely that "not making it" in the PL before is weighing too much on his mind. He is also going through a crisis of confidence at the moment, as all players do sometime in their careers. He has been an excellent player in the Championship and there is no reason why he can't do it in the PL. It is up to him to believe that he can and it's really up to the coaching set up to guide him to this. You just don't discard players because they are going through a crisis of confidence - that is the worst management technique ever. He started the season well, got himself into plenty of goalscoring positions but, despite him having a great strike on him, he just didn't put them away and his confidence has slowly drained away throughout the season. I do agree with Offtopic that he does lack that yard of pace - and that leaves him relying on his touch and trickery alone to beat people - something he has in abundance. The first thing to disappear when you lose confidence is your touch and trickery and so he's in a bit of a downward spiral at this stage, not wanting the ball, not doing anything with it when he gets it. He's not shit - not by a long way - but he's not going to be the one to push us over the line this season, that's for sure. As for next season - I think the Premier League will always be a bit of a struggle for Ince yet he will always look one of the better players in the Championship. Enigma? You could of said "He's just Hiding" needs a Warnock up his arse not a cuddle from David
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Apr 8, 2018 17:43:38 GMT 1
He started the season well, got himself into plenty of goalscoring positions but, despite him having a great strike on him, he just didn't put them away and his confidence has slowly drained away throughout the season. I do agree with Offtopic that he does lack that yard of pace - and that leaves him relying on his touch and trickery alone to beat people - something he has in abundance. The first thing to disappear when you lose confidence is your touch and trickery and so he's in a bit of a downward spiral at this stage, not wanting the ball, not doing anything with it when he gets it. He's not shit - not by a long way - but he's not going to be the one to push us over the line this season, that's for sure. As for next season - I think the Premier League will always be a bit of a struggle for Ince yet he will always look one of the better players in the Championship. Enigma? You could of said "He's just Hiding" needs a Warnock up his arse not a cuddle from David Ouch nobody wants to see that.
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 18:48:41 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 18:48:41 GMT 1
Well said, I would too. I refuse to accept his guy can’t score goals at this level because the goals aren’t any smaller and he’s had or made the chances this year. Something psychological perhaps? Agree his confidence is gone now and a reset is required. I still believe he could be sat on 7 or 8 + goals. You can’t fault his endeavour. Second season he could do better as I suspect will moonie. The goalkeepers are better than in the Championship The defenders are bigger, strong, quicker than in the Championship Most Def but he’s had more than enough chances still. Just hasn’t had the conviction. 40 odd shots by the halfway point or something similar. He was leading the whole division in shots at goal at one point. Ultimately we need better in the wide areas but there are no guarantees no matter how many millions you spend these days as Brighton are experincing with Izquierdo..
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 18:54:55 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 18:54:55 GMT 1
The goalkeepers are better than in the Championship The defenders are bigger, strong, quicker than in the Championship Most Def but he’s had more than enough chances still. Just hasn’t had the conviction. 40 odd shots by the halfway point or something similar. He was leading the whole division in shots at goal at one point. Ultimately we need better in the wide areas but there are no guarantees no matter how many millions you spend these days as Brighton are experincing with Izquierdo.. That stat doesn't tell you where the shots were from or where they ended up It's a prettt meaningless stat. I bet VLP is high up in the list of number of crosses. That stat also wouldn't tell you that 99% of them have been garbage
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 18:57:53 GMT 1
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 8, 2018 18:57:53 GMT 1
It's a good job the Players don't read posts on here.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 8, 2018 19:02:06 GMT 1
He just isn't that good is he? In hindsight you are right - but it seemed like a good idea at the time! Be quite difficult to offload him now if we stay up. Didn't hear many protests when we signed him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 20:45:21 GMT 1
He just isn't that good is he? In hindsight you are right - but it seemed like a good idea at the time! Be quite difficult to offload him now if we stay up. Didn't hear many protests when we signed him. I watched Tom Ince closely on Saturday. His confidence is shot he always looked to release the ball very quickly and more often than not to pass backwards or sideways. Earlier in the season he was taking people on and shooting at every opportunity but sadly without success. I dont think its gonna come right this season unfortunately, which is a great shame as i for one thought he was the most exciting signing since Kasey Palmer. He doesnt appear to think he can cut it at this level, if Saturday is anything to go by.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Apr 8, 2018 21:14:57 GMT 1
In hindsight you are right - but it seemed like a good idea at the time! Be quite difficult to offload him now if we stay up. Didn't hear many protests when we signed him. I watched Tom Ince closely on Saturday. His confidence is shot he always looked to release the ball very quickly and more often than not to pass backwards or sideways. Earlier in the season he was taking people on and shooting at every opportunity but sadly without success. I dont think its gonna come right this season unfortunately, which is a great shame as i for one thought he was the most exciting signing since Kasey Palmer. He doesnt appear to think he can cut it at this level, if Saturday is anything to go by. Whenever Ince got the ball yesterday he looked like he didn’t want it. I agree with you, I think his confidence is shot and he’s full of self doubt. He seemed nervous and his control was poor. Hopefully, he’ll get a bit of luck soon and things could change for him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 21:17:42 GMT 1
I watched Tom Ince closely on Saturday. His confidence is shot he always looked to release the ball very quickly and more often than not to pass backwards or sideways. Earlier in the season he was taking people on and shooting at every opportunity but sadly without success. I dont think its gonna come right this season unfortunately, which is a great shame as i for one thought he was the most exciting signing since Kasey Palmer. He doesnt appear to think he can cut it at this level, if Saturday is anything to go by. Whenever Ince got the ball yesterday he looked like he didn’t want it. I agree with you, I think his confidence is shot and he’s full of self doubt. He seemed nervous and his control was poor. Hopefully, he’ll get a bit of luck soon and things could change for him. Dont get me wrong he worked really hard and his defensive work was good, but thats not what hes here for.. His Dad should have a word with him. He didnt lack confidence
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Tom Ince
Apr 8, 2018 21:33:44 GMT 1
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Post by muffinman on Apr 8, 2018 21:33:44 GMT 1
Takes one too many touches in front of goal. Did it yesterday and did it against man u but thankfully Mooy was there for the rebound.
Similar story out wide. He wants to cut in but isnt quick enough for the prem for it and ends up getting tackled.
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